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33 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

So we sweeten the pot & give KC what most can't..Josh Gordon,Terek Hill, Kelsey..shiney new toy boy needs a weapon 60 yards down field. both contracts would expire after next season.. Gordon makes nothing but just over a million..we can't name a Jags WR they would part with..Go Bull Dawgs!!     

Short and sweet HELL NO. 

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Personally I don't see Smith or Cousins as the kind of transcendent quarterback that pulls their team across the finish line. I think they are guys who will do alright if the team is performing at a high level. Probably a step ahead of some of the others being mentioned here, the bums, but nobody that I would expect to be the wise old Mentor to our quarterback of the future. I'm a little bit more intrigued by McCarran just because it seems that's the guy coach Jackson really wants.

WSS

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41 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

 I'm a little bit more intrigued by McCarran just because it seems that's the guy coach Jackson really wants.

WSS

And that makes me have the exact opposite reaction because Mr. "Trust me" likes him.

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5 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Personally I don't see Smith or Cousins as the kind of transcendent quarterback that pulls their team across the finish line. I think they are guys who will do alright if the team is performing at a high level. Probably a step ahead of some of the others being mentioned here, the bums, but nobody that I would expect to be the wise old Mentor to our quarterback of the future. I'm a little bit more intrigued by McCarran just because it seems that's the guy coach Jackson really wants.

WSS

Hue also wanted RG III and Kessler Steve. Be afraid, very afraid. I don't trust Hue's QB judgement any farther than I could throw him- except into the Lake. 

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My first post on the thread:

- First of all, I think what Browns can give KC is way more than other teams. We have a lot of draft picks AND we are not a rival. We went 0-16 and they won their division, we are not a serious threat. 

If you are going to go with a 2nd year rookie with only one start, you don't want to take the risk of trading your veteran QB to any of your rivals in the playoffs and 'help' them. Because if your rookie QB has a worse season than your veteran, everyone is going to draw comparisons. Moreover, the QB position hasn't been the main problem for KC this year, their defense has been way worse than last year, mostly against the run.

- Second: we are looking for a solution for the QB position. The team still has many holes, either on skill players (WR, CB) or depth (DL, LB). Smith is a good QB, not amazing but incredibly reliable: Few INTs, gets first downs with his feet, can scramble. We lost some of this year games only because of turnovers, so that's already an improvement. If he becomes a long term solution, great, if he is a bridge QB for the QB we draft this year, even better. 

- We are drafting a QB. You cannot pass on one of the best drafts QBwise in years simply because you got a FA. Don't take the chances and go both FA and draft.

- I don't think Alex Smith's style matches with Hue's deep offense. I think someone already said that. And I don't see our magnificent coach adapting his offensive schemes to anyone. He hasn't even with a struggling rookie QB. 

- We should sign at least a FA WR before we negotiate with Alex Smith. I don't know how is his relationship with the KC front office, but probably they don't want to do any bad to him and investing in weapons that he could use would help our case and make our offer more attractive. 

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5 hours ago, hoorta said:

Hue also wanted RG III and Kessler Steve. Be afraid, very afraid. I don't trust Hue's QB judgement any farther than I could throw him- except into the Lake. 

I didn't like RG3 because I thought he had a shity attitude. When it became apparent he'd gotten over that I was in his corner. One of the most talented quarterbacks for a long time and I was looking forward to him making a turn around. Cody Kessler was never expected to be the savior.

But I'm just as happy with AJ, which ain't much, has any of these other bums you guys were talking about. Especially Taylor and more especially Kaepernick.

WSS

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13 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Personally I don't see Smith or Cousins as the kind of transcendent quarterback that pulls their team across the finish line. I think they are guys who will do alright if the team is performing at a high level. Probably a step ahead of some of the others being mentioned here, the bums, but nobody that I would expect to be the wise old Mentor to our quarterback of the future. I'm a little bit more intrigued by McCarran just because it seems that's the guy coach Jackson really wants.

WSS

Well....I think Smith would be the "wise old mentor"....or more specifically...the "Bridge QB"....to play a year while the new highly drafted QB sits and learns.  (Which is what should have happened this year with either McCown or even Osweiler).

Cousins...no.  He would be the guy you would expect to come in and start the next 8 years.  He is like at least 8-9 years younger than Smith.

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2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Well....I think Smith would be the "wise old mentor"....or more specifically...the "Bridge QB"....to play a year while the new highly drafted QB sits and learns.  (Which is what should have happened this year with either McCown or even Osweiler).

Cousins...no.  He would be the guy you would expect to come in and start the next 8 years.  He is like at least 8-9 years younger than Smith.

Actually not Gip. Smith is 34 this year, Cousins 30. My issue is even if the Browns threw the $150 million at him (that Kirk won't take from Cleveland- he's going to chase a ring) he'd be Smith's age by the time the Browns get to that level.

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21 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Actually not Gip. Smith is 34 this year, Cousins 30. My issue is even if the Browns threw the $150 million at him (that Kirk won't take from Cleveland- he's going to chase a ring) he'd be Smith's age by the time the Browns get to that level.

I didn't think Cousins was that old.  I thought he would only be like 27 or 28.  He was drafted in 2012 no?  Only 5 years ago from last season.  I assumed he would have been like 22 or 23 when he came out.  He must have actually been a bit older than average when he was drafted.  Not Brandon Weeden old...but old.

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22 hours ago, The Gipper said:

But it IS what you said ex post facto....so I know your mind before you do.

Not even close, Gip.

My original comment was that the tag was always there to fall back upon.

Your original interpretation was to just go to the tag.

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

I didn't think Cousins was that old.  I thought he would only be like 27 or 28.  He was drafted in 2012 no?  Only 5 years ago from last season.  I assumed he would have been like 22 or 23 when he came out.  He must have actually been a bit older than average when he was drafted.  Not Brandon Weeden old...but old.

Google can be your friend. Turns 30 just before 2018 season and drafted in 2012 as you thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Cousins

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57 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Not even close, Gip.

My original comment was that the tag was always there to fall back upon.

Your original interpretation was to just go to the tag.

Well....not much difference really. I guess you meant to say "sign him long term, then you don't have to apply the franchise tag"..without actually saying that.  Of course, again, you left blanks in your comments such that you ask us to try to interpret what you mean. And you get cranky when we don't read your mind right.  I mean, honestly, you are like a woman with that.  You expect us to know what you are thinking even though you don't say what you are thinking.  Are you sure you're not a chick?  Better do a trouser check.

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12 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Google can be your friend. Turns 30 just before 2018 season and drafted in 2012 as you thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Cousins

I guess this coming year will actually be his 7th season in the league:  drafted 2012...so...2012/13/14/15/16/17/18

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1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

I guess this coming year will actually be his 7th season in the league:  drafted 2012...so...2012/13/14/15/16/17/18

& that's why he (Cousins) is going to want to go to a team with SB aspirations (Jags, Broncos) instead of the dumpster fire the Browns have been over the last two years. 

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38 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Well....not much difference really.

lol... sure.

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Does anyone have any clue what it would take to trade for Alex Smith? I know at one point people wanted to wait for him to be released, that way he costs only money and not draft picks, but waiting for a release would probably guarantee that he signs with a team who WASN'T 0-16. You can bet your paycheck Arizona is going to be ALL over Smith as well, so I'm guessing the price for his services is going to be pretty high...but how high? 

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39 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Does anyone have any clue what it would take to trade for Alex Smith? I know at one point people wanted to wait for him to be released, that way he costs only money and not draft picks, but waiting for a release would probably guarantee that he signs with a team who WASN'T 0-16. You can bet your paycheck Arizona is going to be ALL over Smith as well, so I'm guessing the price for his services is going to be pretty high...but how high? 

A talking head on ESPN radio was mentioning a 3rd or possibly a 2nd rounder. 

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KC is 8M over the cap before signing any rookies thanks to our new GM's incompetence.. Chiefs should be paying us to take Smith's contract [20.6M in 2018] off their hands.  I don't see any reason we should give them anything higher than a 3rd, followed by us signing whatever quality D FA they don't sign.

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3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Guy is too busy setting odds to be anywhere accurate. I agree with Logic he's getting shipped to the team offering the best deal. That would be the Browns, if they choose to. Our two first round picks aren't for sale to buy a soon to be 34 year old QB.

Arizona with the #15 in the first round? With a 35 year old Fitzgerald? Don't think so. & KC fans are crazy if they think they can get one first round pick for Smith, much less two. I suppose they saw what the Vikings gave up for Bradford, and are dreaming big.  :)

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5 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Does anyone have any clue what it would take to trade for Alex Smith? I know at one point people wanted to wait for him to be released, that way he costs only money and not draft picks, but waiting for a release would probably guarantee that he signs with a team who WASN'T 0-16. You can bet your paycheck Arizona is going to be ALL over Smith as well, so I'm guessing the price for his services is going to be pretty high...but how high? 

To me....3rd rounder...and maybe throw in a 6th.

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On 1/11/2018 at 8:25 AM, Unsympathetic said:

KC is 8M over the cap before signing any rookies thanks to our new GM's incompetence.. Chiefs should be paying us to take Smith's contract [20.6M in 2018] off their hands.  I don't see any reason we should give them anything higher than a 3rd, followed by us signing whatever quality D FA they don't sign.

How about a Brock Osweiler deal?   We take him off their hands for the cost of his contract....and they give US a  2d/3rd rounder?

:ph34r:

Edit:  sorry....I never believed any of you would actually take this seriously

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5 hours ago, The Gipper said:

How about a Brock Osweiler deal?   We take him off their hands for the cost of his contract....and they give US a  2d/3rd rounder?

:ph34r:

Nyet. The Chiefs are already minus their first round pick thanks to trading up for Mahomes, they'll be looking to add picks, not subtract them. There will be far more interest in Smith (several teams at least) than the Ostrich. I wouldn't look for the bidding to get insane, but then you never know about those things.  Alex has a proven track record- something Brock sorely lacks. Look for the Brockster to get flat out cut by Denver once the season is over- the way his contract is structured, it coast them nothing to do so. 

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9 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

KC is 8M over the cap before signing any rookies thanks to our new GM's incompetence.. Chiefs should be paying us to take Smith's contract [20.6M in 2018] off their hands.  I don't see any reason we should give them anything higher than a 3rd, followed by us signing whatever quality D FA they don't sign.

WTF incompetence ? you do realize that every team in the league go's up against the cap at some time or the other

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Arizona will likely invest draft picks in reaching top 10 for a rookie QB than for trading a soon to be FA aged 34. With a new coach they look like rebuilding and they don't need "temporary" solutions.

Denver: No way. Same division, aging players, cap space. 

The real contenders I see there are the Jets and Jacksonville. I have my doubts on the Jets because I believe they signed McCown as a bridge quaterback to draft a rookie in this very draft. Which I strongly believe is the same we did when drafting Kizer. 

I'd say that with starting QBs, either you sign them on FA or draft them, it's difficult for teams to be in the same position as the Browns, with both a lot of cap space, and many high picks. And in a QB deep draft like this, I see pushing for players like Smith teams with cap space and low picks (Jacksonville, and I can't think of any other more obvious).

Also, Jacksonville has to try to win NOW, so they need to get a good QB for this next 2 years, if they have learnt something from the Texans, which didn't syncronize having a good QB (Watson) with the top years of their defense.

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On 1/11/2018 at 7:33 AM, boo fagley said:

They are talking 2 - 1st round picks on KC sports radio which is ridiculous. I find it hard to believe that anyone would give a 1st round pick for Smith.

I will say a 2nd round pick which is still too much for my liking, but if KC flat let him go and certain criteria were reached by Smith in 2018 on his new team, KC could very well receive a 3rd round compensatory pick for Smith.

First round pick for Alex Smith is just crazy, especially considering where ours sit at, but even though our 2nd rounders are still considerably valuable, I'd make the move in a skinny second. Obviously I'd PREFER the latest 2nd rounder we have, but to be honest, I'd probably do just about anything to get the deal done. Again, I'm not trying to make Alex Smith out to be the second coming, but just think about the potential impact he could have on our TEAM, our coaches, and our front office. Here's what I mean... 

So it goes without saying that we have set the bar "pretty low". Our main coaches have kept their jobs but know that they need improvement and need it yesterday. Even if Alex Smith helps us win 5 games (stop laughing, it's possible), that would likely be enough for everyone to keep their job another year. It would be another year for our players to learn in the same systems, to gel together, for our high picks to progress. It's another year of adding free agents that fit our philosophies, another year of Kizer learning behind an established veteran, and we start to get the continuity we've been dying for. 

We're not completely devoid of talent, and obviously we are going to add a bunch of new players in the draft and I get the feeling we're going to be more aggressive than usual in free agency. We have to be aggressive because we're the worst team in the world, and we'll need to bust out both the charm AND the checkbook to get talent heading this way. Certainly there will be players who avoid us, but I don't believe we're going to have the toxic effect many fans and analysts anticipate. Look at Jamie Collins for example. He could've gone to a bunch of other teams but he didn't. Collins hasn't had the impact yet, but I'm not worried. He's a beast and he'll get there. 

I don't care what some article says about our chances. We have the GM that previously traded for Alex Smith with us, we have an arsenal of draft picks, we have a ton of cash....and we have a desperate owner. And think about this...what would acquiring Alex Smith do for ticket sales? You think it would make a difference? I do. I'm not saying ticket sales would ERUPT or anything, but there would definitely be a spike, and getting Smith would immediately deflect all the terrible attention from us, and then everyone could start talking about building our team and winning some games. Perhaps most importantly, Smith is still signed with the Chiefs. Where he goes isn't up to him, unless he has a no-trade claus (I haven't heard that he does, but I could be wrong). Even if we trade for him and he says he doesn't want to sign a multi year deal, it won't matter. We get him for 2018, we franchise him in 2019, and then we reassess. However, if we do trade for him, it's highly likely he WILL sign with us, mainly because we'll make him stupid rich. Sure he's rich now, but we could overpay him and not even feel it. Who else could do that? Mr. Dorsey, make the deal happen the first second trades are allowed. 

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I know everyone has linked the Browns to Alex Smith because of Dorsey but let's factor in a few things:

1) Dorsey traded for him 5 years ago...when he was 29 and still in the prime of his career. He will be 34/35 going into next season

2.) He traded UP in last year's draft to get a qb whom he thought was SIGNIFICANTLY better than him for this team. AKA, he was ready to move on from him

3.) Smith is owed almost $20 million next year. Not many teams can absorb that money. Obviously, the browns can, but why should they?

4.) Chiefs fans are delusional if anyone is offering a 2nd round pick for him. The chiefs have to make a decision before the first day of the league year, if not sooner about a)picking up his bonus b ) they are already OVER the cap. The best offer they are going to get is MAYBE a 4th with potential to be a 3rd and I highly doubt that is the case. Let's look at the suitors: Cleveland, Arizona (whom I think is going full tank), Jax (Kirk Cousins all-in and is Smith at this point that much better than Bortles plus if Tyrod Taylor is on the market), Denver (no way Elway wants a 34 y/o qb), Jets (see Josh McCown), Washington (assuming they don't resign cousins), Buffalo (assuming they release Taylor, but is Smith that much better than Taylor),  and maybe Pittsburgh (if Big Ben retires)...Everywhere else he is going to be a back-up. 

5.) The Chiefs have all but said Mahomes is the starting qb next year

SO based on this reasoning, someone please tell me WHY the Browns are going to give up a high round draft choice for this guy? I'm not saying he wouldn't be a welcome addition to this team, but I will not be happy if the Browns give up any top 65 picks for Alex Smith. That's just wasting picks and throwing them away. Then franchise tag a 34 y/o declining qb at $26 million per year? Are you crazy? Now, instead of wasting draft picks, the Browns are wasting money. If people haven't read the tea leaves, AJ McCarron is whom the Browns want. They are praying that he becomes an unrestricted FA on February 15th when the league rules on his eligibility...Being the collusionist that I am, I think the NFL rules in favor of the Bengals. The browns would much rather trade for him than Alex Smith. 

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2 hours ago, Bigalow80 said:

I know everyone has linked the Browns to Alex Smith because of Dorsey but let's factor in a few things:

1) Dorsey traded for him 5 years ago...when he was 29 and still in the prime of his career. He will be 34/35 going into next season

2.) He traded UP in last year's draft to get a qb whom he thought was SIGNIFICANTLY better than him for this team. AKA, he was ready to move on from him

3.) Smith is owed almost $20 million next year. Not many teams can absorb that money. Obviously, the browns can, but why should they?

4.) Chiefs fans are delusional if anyone is offering a 2nd round pick for him. The chiefs have to make a decision before the first day of the league year, if not sooner about a)picking up his bonus b ) they are already OVER the cap. The best offer they are going to get is MAYBE a 4th with potential to be a 3rd and I highly doubt that is the case. Let's look at the suitors: Cleveland, Arizona (whom I think is going full tank), Jax (Kirk Cousins all-in and is Smith at this point that much better than Bortles plus if Tyrod Taylor is on the market), Denver (no way Elway wants a 34 y/o qb), Jets (see Josh McCown), Washington (assuming they don't resign cousins), Buffalo (assuming they release Taylor, but is Smith that much better than Taylor),  and maybe Pittsburgh (if Big Ben retires)...Everywhere else he is going to be a back-up. 

5.) The Chiefs have all but said Mahomes is the starting qb next year

SO based on this reasoning, someone please tell me WHY the Browns are going to give up a high round draft choice for this guy? I'm not saying he wouldn't be a welcome addition to this team, but I will not be happy if the Browns give up any top 65 picks for Alex Smith. That's just wasting picks and throwing them away. Then franchise tag a 34 y/o declining qb at $26 million per year? Are you crazy? Now, instead of wasting draft picks, the Browns are wasting money. If people haven't read the tea leaves, AJ McCarron is whom the Browns want. They are praying that he becomes an unrestricted FA on February 15th when the league rules on his eligibility...Being the collusionist that I am, I think the NFL rules in favor of the Bengals. The browns would much rather trade for him than Alex Smith. 

Like your thinking, but- how old was Payton Manning when the Broncos got him? Their window is closing fast. RE: McCarron, assuming he's a RFA- what if the Bengals put a second round tender on him? Giving up the #33, for a guy who's only played a few games? You better see long term starter potential, and I don't trust Hue's QB judgement anymore at all.

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19 hours ago, hoorta said:

Nyet. The Chiefs are already minus their first round pick thanks to trading up for Mahomes, they'll be looking to add picks, not subtract them. There will be far more interest in Smith (several teams at least) than the Ostrich. I wouldn't look for the bidding to get insane, but then you never know about those things.  Alex has a proven track record- something Brock sorely lacks. Look for the Brockster to get flat out cut by Denver once the season is over- the way his contract is structured, it coast them nothing to do so. 

See above where I edited to put my statement in pink......as it was clearly a jest

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