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calfoxwc

Josh Allen mechanics are very good.

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51 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

What "things" specifically?

watch the video. Feet, hips.

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17 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Maybe he likes to wear brown? Perhaps he doesn't want to redo his whole wardrobe?

LOL, but he's got to get rid of the Pittsburgh yellow...   If you want karma, the last decent Browns player to wear #17 was Brian Sipe....  

 

image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fninernoise.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F05%2F630381226-poinsettia-bowl-byu-v-wyoming.jpg.jpg&w=850&h=560&c=sc

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That's GOLD.

this is three rivers scum yellow

NS-20171225pdSteelers20-4.jpg

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I never understood why people could not tell the difference between gold and yellow.  Compare the above photo.....yellow.

this is gold:

15-saints-throwbacks.jpg

I mean, is it just some marketing ploy or something that makes them call yellow gold?

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2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

watch the video. Feet, hips.

So Gip was close...

 

Saw Allen's presser to open Sr Bowl Week. To say it was bland would be overrating it. Lots of insecure "ums" and "ers"... and then he offers up that he has "a lot of flaws" in his QB play???

Spoken like a Honorable Mention, All Mountain West QB.

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

I never understood why people could not tell the difference between gold and yellow.  Compare the above photo.....yellow.

this is gold:

15-saints-throwbacks.jpg

I mean, is it just some marketing ploy or something that makes them call yellow gold?

Thank you.

Notre Dame wears gold. The Saints wear gold.

Pittsburgh, Green Bay and Wyoming wear yellow.

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6 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Thank you.

Notre Dame wears gold. The Saints wear gold.

Pittsburgh, Green Bay and Wyoming wear yellow.

Hard to show a tone of gold on a computer- now this is "gold". Around $49,000 dollars worth.  :)  

 

1-kilo-royal-canadian-gold-bar.png

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Wyoming QB Josh Allen passes the eyeball test – until he starts throwing

"[Allen is] the perfect decoy,” said private quarterback coach Rich Bartel, who was in the stadium watching Tuesday. Bartel suspects Allen’s prodigious measurables will seduce NFL execs to the point that they overlook his biggest flaw: He has never been a very accurate passer.

Allen ranked 83rd nationally in completion percentage in 2017, at just 56.3 percent. His pass efficiency rating ranked 73rd. In 2016, his only previous season of appreciable playing time, he completed 56 percent of his throws.

Then there are his numbers in Wyoming’s games against opponents from Power Five conferences. Facing Iowa and Oregon in 2017 and Nebraska in ’16, Allen was 48 of 96 for 427 yards, with one touchdown and eight interceptions. Disastrous numbers.

Bartel pointed out that quarterbacks who come into the NFL with accuracy issues don’t tend to improve dramatically — they are who they are. And with the smaller windows in which to throw passes, that problem becomes magnified."

------------------------

Haven't we already tried the "strong arm, yet can't hit the broad side of a barn" QB experiment with Derek Anderson, Brandon We-done and Kizer? No thanks. Pass.

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Dear God NO!  We saw in Kizer last year what an inaccurate QB entails.  Stay the F away! 

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Nice post jb. Confirms everything I saw in several games I saw him play. Add to that his lack of progressions plus quickness to run and we have just one more player that  will fit perfectly with the similar players we already have not producing jack sh-it for the Browns.

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http://www.9news.com/article/sports/josh-allen-outshines-baker-mayfield-in-first-senior-bowl-practice/73-511061436

Josh Allen outshines Baker Mayfield in first Senior Bowl practice

 
 
Author: Mike Klis
Published: 7:48 AM MST January 24, 2018

They had tackles and guards and safeties and linebackers.

And the Senior Bowl had two quarterbacks named Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield.

In that order, by the way.

No one has been a bigger supporter of Baker Mayfield than I have. But then I watched Allen throw a howitzer to Penn State receiver DaeSean Hamilton on a deep out pattern Tuesday during the Senior Bowl North team practice at Ladd Peebles Stadium. Allen’s pass exploded out of his hand. It was one of those Andres Galarraga line drives where about halfway on its path, the ball rose to another level and hummed.

Hamilton was pretty well covered on the play, too. The cornerback had no chance.

And then on his next pass, Allen had Hamilton again on a crossing route. Overthrew by a couple yards.

“It went OK,’’ Allen told 9NEWS as he walked off the Ladd Peebles Stadium artificial surface following practice Tuesday. “Could have gone a little better but it was the first day. It’s definitely different, kind of difficult to process the speed of different receivers you’ve never thrown to before. We’ll be better tomorrow.’’

With John Elway and Dan Marino watching practice from the sideline Tuesday, Allen looked like the best quarterback from a Senior Bowl North team that also included Mayfield, Nebraska’s Tanner Lee and Washington State’s Luke Falk.

I talked to one NFL offensive coach who’s had decent success in the league and attended the Senior Bowl practices Tuesday. He said he’d take Allen ahead of Baker in the upcoming draft.

Go with the bigger guy, he said. He speaks for the majority of NFL talent evaluators.

Two of the top quarterbacks, Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen, weren’t eligible for the Senior Bowl because they entered the draft before their senior seasons. Allen may well be the Cleveland Browns No.1 overall pick, anyhow.

“It’s a tough situation to come in as a rookie and expect to be perfect right away,’’ Allen said earlier Tuesday during the Senior Bowl media session. “I know I have a lot of flaws as a quarterback.’’

He has an arm, he’s athletic, he’s big and he has a winning personality and smarts. His biggest flaw his accuracy. He was a two-year starter at Wyoming and completed only 56 percent of his passes each season.

“I’ve been working on that,’’ Allen said. “Obviously, 56 percent is not anywhere close where it needs to be. You can go and look at the tape and I’d say I’ve made a lot of strides from the previous season. I held the ball more, didn’t throw as many interceptions. I held on to the ball, threw the ball away more. Just more careful with the football. There’s always the constant battle with trying to perfect your game.That’s what I’m dealing with right now and making sure my stroke is consistent and clean.’’

He and Darnold are housemates this offseason, working with quarterbacks coach Jordan Palmer.

Allen was plenty accurate in the first quarter of the Potato Bowl last month, throwing three touchdown passes against Central Michigan with Elway and Matt Russell, the Broncos’ director of player personnel, attending the game specifically to scout him.

“It was really cool,’’ Allen said. “You try to not treat it as a distraction when you look over to the sideline and see a guy like John Elway, it’s hard to not get excited. I just went out there and played football with my guys. It was fun.’’

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Come on Dorsey, land us a real QB long before draft day begins - Amen. 

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1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

http://www.9news.com/article/sports/josh-allen-outshines-baker-mayfield-in-first-senior-bowl-practice/73-511061436

Josh Allen outshines Baker Mayfield in first Senior Bowl practice

 
 
Author: Mike Klis
Published: 7:48 AM MST January 24, 2018

They had tackles and guards and safeties and linebackers.

And the Senior Bowl had two quarterbacks named Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield.

In that order, by the way.

No one has been a bigger supporter of Baker Mayfield than I have. But then I watched Allen throw a howitzer to Penn State receiver DaeSean Hamilton on a deep out pattern Tuesday during the Senior Bowl North team practice at Ladd Peebles Stadium. Allen’s pass exploded out of his hand. It was one of those Andres Galarraga line drives where about halfway on its path, the ball rose to another level and hummed.

Hamilton was pretty well covered on the play, too. The cornerback had no chance.

And then on his next pass, Allen had Hamilton again on a crossing route. Overthrew by a couple yards.

“It went OK,’’ Allen told 9NEWS as he walked off the Ladd Peebles Stadium artificial surface following practice Tuesday. “Could have gone a little better but it was the first day. It’s definitely different, kind of difficult to process the speed of different receivers you’ve never thrown to before. We’ll be better tomorrow.’’

With John Elway and Dan Marino watching practice from the sideline Tuesday, Allen looked like the best quarterback from a Senior Bowl North team that also included Mayfield, Nebraska’s Tanner Lee and Washington State’s Luke Falk.

I talked to one NFL offensive coach who’s had decent success in the league and attended the Senior Bowl practices Tuesday. He said he’d take Allen ahead of Baker in the upcoming draft.

Go with the bigger guy, he said. He speaks for the majority of NFL talent evaluators.

Two of the top quarterbacks, Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen, weren’t eligible for the Senior Bowl because they entered the draft before their senior seasons. Allen may well be the Cleveland Browns No.1 overall pick, anyhow.

“It’s a tough situation to come in as a rookie and expect to be perfect right away,’’ Allen said earlier Tuesday during the Senior Bowl media session. “I know I have a lot of flaws as a quarterback.’’

He has an arm, he’s athletic, he’s big and he has a winning personality and smarts. His biggest flaw his accuracy. He was a two-year starter at Wyoming and completed only 56 percent of his passes each season.

“I’ve been working on that,’’ Allen said. “Obviously, 56 percent is not anywhere close where it needs to be. You can go and look at the tape and I’d say I’ve made a lot of strides from the previous season. I held the ball more, didn’t throw as many interceptions. I held on to the ball, threw the ball away more. Just more careful with the football. There’s always the constant battle with trying to perfect your game.That’s what I’m dealing with right now and making sure my stroke is consistent and clean.’’

He and Darnold are housemates this offseason, working with quarterbacks coach Jordan Palmer.

Allen was plenty accurate in the first quarter of the Potato Bowl last month, throwing three touchdown passes against Central Michigan with Elway and Matt Russell, the Broncos’ director of player personnel, attending the game specifically to scout him.

“It was really cool,’’ Allen said. “You try to not treat it as a distraction when you look over to the sideline and see a guy like John Elway, it’s hard to not get excited. I just went out there and played football with my guys. It was fun.’’

Doesn't change these facts.    

Allen’s prodigious measurables will seduce NFL execs to the point that they overlook his biggest flaw: He has never been a very accurate passer.

Allen ranked 83rd nationally in completion percentage in 2017, at just 56.3 percent. His pass efficiency rating ranked 73rd. In 2016, his only previous season of appreciable playing time, he completed 56 percent of his throws.

Then there are his numbers in Wyoming’s games against opponents from Power Five conferences. Facing Iowa and Oregon in 2017 and Nebraska in ’16, Allen was 48 of 96 for 427 yards, with one touchdown and eight interceptions. Disastrous numbers.

 

Just say no to another inaccurate QB. 

 

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Josh Allen outshines Baker Mayfield in first Senior Bowl practice

Well...per the videos and the reports listed above, Josh Allen completely sucked balls in his Senior Bowl practice.

So....if the above headline is true...and we know Allen sucked balls......what does that say for how bad Mayfield was?

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9 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Just say no to another inaccurate QB. 

  I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.

   I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop into a world class pro qb.

Take this guy:

"

Weaknesses

Benefits from an offense that is predicated on simplified reads. Offense able to create wide-open receivers after busted coverages at times. Needs to improve resetting feet when maneuvering pocket to improve accuracy and power. Tends to "see" pass rush too often. Will drop eyes and look to escape pocket rather than stepping to available pocket space. Frequent trips outside pocket increase opportunity for injury. Pocket feel is very average. Stepped into sacks he had no business taking. Didn't have to throw to tight windows often. Average processor on field. Still learning when to get rid of the ball and move to next play. Slow to make anticipatory throws and can improve patience in allowing combo routes to mature rather than rushing the read. Missed obvious pre-snap blitzes. Drive accuracy needs work. When cutting it loose, ball tends to sail on him a bit. Arm strength is adequate but inconsistent to field side. Needs to bring hips through throws to increase zip into tight windows in NFL. Fumbled 27 times during his career. "

How high should that qb go in the draft? Sounds less a qb than Allen? His top wr, Josh Huff was drafted in the third round by the Eagles. His rb was drafted in the fourth round. He had a conference star center...quite a good cast around him. His accuracy was 61 % overall regular season, 60.x % in playoffs in college.

   Allen plays in a pro style offense, doesn't lend itself to stats, and his percentage is a bit low, but he is more a prospect than the guy above, I think. It's Mariotta, out of Oregon. He was picked second overall. Josh Allen is a better pick.

 

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What I wish we could know...but obviously we cannot, is what the Browns FO has done in terms of eliminating people.

E.g.....take my above post.   If  Allen, and Mayfield are consistently bad in these workouts, it would be nice to know if the Brows FO has simply done this:

Josh Allen

Baker Mayfield

And, it would be nice to know if they still have perhaps a board like this:

Darnold

Rosen

Rudolph

Jackson

etc. 

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1 minute ago, calfoxwc said:

  I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.

   I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop into a world class pro qb.

No...he was lousy against decent competition in college and very very average against a weak Mountain West conference.

Allen ranked 83rd nationally in completion percentage in 2017, at just 56.3 percent. His pass efficiency rating ranked 73rd. In 2016, his only previous season of appreciable playing time, he completed 56 percent of his throws.

Then there are his numbers in Wyoming’s games against opponents from Power Five conferences. Facing Iowa and Oregon in 2017 and Nebraska in ’16, Allen was 48 of 96 for 427 yards, with one touchdown and eight interceptions. Disastrous numbers.

 

He's a project at best.

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2 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

  I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.

Maybe it is a result of him just being bad at that skill.....the most important skill of being an NFL QB.   So, maybe it is the result of him being not good.

   I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop into a world class pro qb.

Maybe we should draft Usain Bolt, or Michael Phelps to be our QB....if all you want is an outstanding athlete.

Take this guy:

"

Weaknesses

Benefits from an offense that is predicated on simplified reads. Offense able to create wide-open receivers after busted coverages at times. Needs to improve resetting feet when maneuvering pocket to improve accuracy and power. Tends to "see" pass rush too often. Will drop eyes and look to escape pocket rather than stepping to available pocket space. Frequent trips outside pocket increase opportunity for injury. Pocket feel is very average. Stepped into sacks he had no business taking. Didn't have to throw to tight windows often. Average processor on field. Still learning when to get rid of the ball and move to next play. Slow to make anticipatory throws and can improve patience in allowing combo routes to mature rather than rushing the read. Missed obvious pre-snap blitzes. Drive accuracy needs work. When cutting it loose, ball tends to sail on him a bit. Arm strength is adequate but inconsistent to field side. Needs to bring hips through throws to increase zip into tight windows in NFL. Fumbled 27 times during his career. "

How high should that qb go in the draft? Sounds less a qb than Allen? His top wr, Josh Huff was drafted in the third round by the Eagles. His rb was drafted in the fourth round. He had a conference star center...quite a good cast around him. His accuracy was 61 % overall regular season, 60.x % in playoffs in college.

   Allen plays in a pro style offense, doesn't lend itself to stats, and his percentage is a bit low, but he is more a prospect than the guy above, I think. It's Mariotta, out of Oregon. He was picked second overall. Josh Allen is a better pick.

 

 

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I'm not going to read any of the 6 pages on this thread, but I'm sure it's been mentioned that "no, they really aren't very good. In fact, they're quite bad"

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Mark O said:

No...he was lousy against decent competition in college and very very average against a weak Mountain West conference.

Allen ranked 83rd nationally in completion percentage in 2017, at just 56.3 percent. His pass efficiency rating ranked 73rd. In 2016, his only previous season of appreciable playing time, he completed 56 percent of his throws.

Then there are his numbers in Wyoming’s games against opponents from Power Five conferences. Facing Iowa and Oregon in 2017 and Nebraska in ’16, Allen was 48 of 96 for 427 yards, with one touchdown and eight interceptions. Disastrous numbers.

 

He's a project at best.

   I get it - those were tough games. Wyoming vs IOWA? NEBRASKA? OREGON? his offense didn't have a chance.

OTH, there is Carson Wentz;

 8/29/2015     @ Mont     16     28     198     57.1     2     0     44     13     70     5.4     2     19     0     0     -     0     -
9/12/2015            Web     19     29     281     65.5     3     0     55     7     45     6.4     1     27     0     0     -     0     -
9/19/2015       NorDak     18     27     262     66.7     4     0     38     10     -9     -0.9     0     7     0     0     -     0     -
10/3/2015     @ SDkSt     19     27     183     70.4     1     0     30     7     54     7.7     1     27     0     0     -     0     -
10/10/2015          NoIa     26     40     335     65.0     4     2     42     12     47     3.9     0     9     0     0     -     0     -
10/17/2015     SouDak     16     28     195     57.1     2     0     37     5     8     1.6     0     7     0     0     -     0     -
1/9/2016             JacSt     16     29     197     55.2     1     2     32     9     79     8.8     2     29     0     0     -     0     -

   So, there is Carson Wentz only passing for 57.1% vs Montana. Only 57.1 % vs South Dakota. And egad, only 55.2 % against...Jacksonville State? That is 48 of 85 for 590 yards, 5 TD's.

That is three of his worst games, vs far, far less competition than Nebrask, Iowa, and Oregon. That is with a wr picked in the third round of the NFL draft, a rb picked in the fourth round. I'm just saying it's far more complicated than a simple comparison of stats.

Against smalltime competition, three of those worst games ... Wentz's average was 56.4%. Wentz never had to play those three big teams Allen did. It's all relative - that's all I'm saying.

                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     

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I have said that I think perhaps the Browns should do the RGIII/Cousins thing....and take a QB high and a QB in like round 4. So...I may be in favor of taking Allen......in round 4.  (which may be where his actual overall rating should lie)

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16 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I have said that I think perhaps the Browns should do the RGIII/Cousins thing....and take a QB high and a QB in like round 4. So...I may be in favor of taking Allen......in round 4.  (which may be where his actual overall rating should lie)

LOL. ok. do you really think he falls out of round one? doesn't go in the top ten?

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

What I wish we could know...but obviously we cannot, is what the Browns FO has done in terms of eliminating people.

E.g.....take my above post.   If  Allen, and Mayfield are consistently bad in these workouts, it would be nice to know if the Brows FO has simply done this:

Josh Allen

Baker Mayfield

And, it would be nice to know if they still have perhaps a board like this:

Darnold

Rosen

Rudolph

Jackson

etc. 

I'm betting they have already done that and are targeting a young vet QB that can actually play the position for the next 3-5yrs...... The Browns may have lines through most of the names you have listed. 

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50 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

LOL. ok. do you really think he falls out of round one? doesn't go in the top ten?

Based on what I am hearing about his Senior Bowl performance....absolutely...on both accounts.

I think he is perhaps a bit lucky that Rudolph got hurt.

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2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

   I get it - those were tough games. Wyoming vs IOWA? NEBRASKA? OREGON? his offense didn't have a chance.

OTH, there is Carson Wentz;

 8/29/2015     @ Mont     16     28     198     57.1     2     0     44     13     70     5.4     2     19     0     0     -     0     -
9/12/2015            Web     19     29     281     65.5     3     0     55     7     45     6.4     1     27     0     0     -     0     -
9/19/2015       NorDak     18     27     262     66.7     4     0     38     10     -9     -0.9     0     7     0     0     -     0     -
10/3/2015     @ SDkSt     19     27     183     70.4     1     0     30     7     54     7.7     1     27     0     0     -     0     -
10/10/2015          NoIa     26     40     335     65.0     4     2     42     12     47     3.9     0     9     0     0     -     0     -
10/17/2015     SouDak     16     28     195     57.1     2     0     37     5     8     1.6     0     7     0     0     -     0     -
1/9/2016             JacSt     16     29     197     55.2     1     2     32     9     79     8.8     2     29     0     0     -     0     -

   So, there is Carson Wentz only passing for 57.1% vs Montana. Only 57.1 % vs South Dakota. And egad, only 55.2 % against...Jacksonville State? That is 48 of 85 for 590 yards, 5 TD's.

That is three of his worst games, vs far, far less competition than Nebrask, Iowa, and Oregon. That is with a wr picked in the third round of the NFL draft, a rb picked in the fourth round. I'm just saying it's far more complicated than a simple comparison of stats.

Against smalltime competition, three of those worst games ... Wentz's average was 56.4%. Wentz never had to play those three big teams Allen did. It's all relative - that's all I'm saying.

                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
               

 

                   

So now you have to cherry pick Wentz's worst games to try and score points? Carson was never worse then 62% for a year passing at ND State.     https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/carson-wentz-1.html

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.

Maybe it is a result of him just being bad at that skill.....the most important skill of being an NFL QB.   So, maybe it is the result of him being not good.

   I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop into a world class pro qb.

Maybe we should draft Usain Bolt, or Michael Phelps to be our QB....if all you want is an outstanding athlete.

Take this guy:

 Allen plays in a pro style offense, doesn't lend itself to stats, and his percentage is a bit low, but he is more a prospect than the guy above, I think. It's Mariotta, out of Oregon. He was picked second overall. Josh Allen is a better pick.

Gipper, it's tough to accurately quote when you reply and put comments inside a post that you're replying to....   

Usain Bolt QB? Nah- but we should give him a look at WR though.  :)  

That Allen played in a pro style offense will mean almost zilch to NFL talent evaluators. Mariotta sure as hell didn't. % a little low? Wake the hell up Cal- it's terrible, 70th something in college QBs? Some guys are so enamored of that ideal size and rocket arm- they just want to overlook he's inconsistent as hell. You watch those Allen highlights they were showing all day on NFLN, a lot of them were on rollouts from the pocket. Just keep overlooking the lowlights- I haven't been since his games at Wyoming, and I won't. I've already said if I had the mind, talent, and time I could put together a Deshone Kizer 2017 highlight reel that would make you think he's the second coming of John Elway. 

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Every reputable report out there is that Allen is struggling with accuracy in simple scrimmage throws over and over again. As was noted, accuracy is something that rarely if ever gets better.

We literally sat through an entire season of a strong-armed, tall QB who never learned to throw the ball accurately. How anyone can want to do that again, yet alone with a high first round pick, is unbelievable. 

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12 minutes ago, hoorta said:

So now you have to cherry pick Wentz's worst games to try and score points? Carson was never worse then 62% for a year passing at ND State.     https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/carson-wentz-1.html

a few you have cherry picked Allen's worst three games. See, that is where the hell I got the idea. Wentz never played the caliber of teams as the three cherrypicked earlier - those WERE Allen's worst games.

   So, you are more interested in jumping in and bitch-knee jerking. Wake the hell up yourself.

And the athletic part comes in when a pro coach works with a qb to teach him to be more accurate. Allen's UPSIDE isElway-ish.

There isn't a Wentz in this draft - except Allen is a bit close outside of the accuracy part. A pro qb coach should be able to teach consistent accuracy. There are other qb's with serious flaws that you can't teach to correct.

 

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Just now, calfoxwc said:

There isn't a Wentz in this draft - except Allen is a bit close outside of the accuracy part. A pro qb coach should be able to teach consistent accuracy. There are other qb's with serious flaws that you can't teach to correct.

 

Accuracy is kind of important for a QB is it not?   Since you say a coach should be able to teach it, show us one example of a mid 50% passer in college who became more accurate in the NFL. 

I'm willing to bet it's never happened.

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