Rosen

[Tour2ma]

At least cal is calling out his own out of date material now...

Gentlemen... we have made progress.

[calfoxwc]

why not? who was it that brought up Allen being "inaccurate" in high school?

you didn't complain about that. And you haven't made progress, I never cared how long ago

the dates were on the articles - you didn't care if they were negative about Allen.

But THAT is fine with you.

Par for the course.

[calfoxwc]

Josh Rosen has "Bust" written ALL over him. - The Stadium Wall - Two ...

https://www.twobillsdrive.com › Sports Talk › The Stadium Wall

 

Mar 12, 2018 - 25 posts - ‎19 authors

Does this sound like a franchise QB to you? This profile from NFL.com is downright scary. Durability is a concern. Carries slight build and has ...

[calfoxwc]

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/ucla-football-is-josh-rosen-a-sure-fire-franchise-quarterback-053017

Measureables

Josh Rosen is listed at 6-foot-3 and 218 pounds.

Of the 21 quarterbacks taken in the top 60 picks since 2012 Rosen, is tied for the fourth-shortest. While Rosen isn’t as short as say Johnny Manziel, who’s listed at 5-foot-11, he is slightly shorter than the prototypical NFL QB.

Of the 16 highest-ranked quarterbacks of 2016 according to Pro Football Focus, only seven stood 6-foot-3 or shorter. Of the seven, only one quarterback, Aaron Rodgers, was selected in the first round. While it is telling that players 6-foot-3 and shorter can still be incredibly successful in the NFL, it is interesting to note that only one was a first-round pick, and a late one at that.

Teams shy away from players who are too short in the first round of the draft because of fears that their lack of stature will impact their ability to see the field once the ball in snapped.

Similarly teams often shy away from players who weigh less than 220 pounds.

Of the 21 QBs taken in the top 60 picks of the NFL draft since 2012, only six weigh less than Rosen.

NFL teams routinely pass over light quarterbacks because of fear of injury. A quarterback like Robert Griffin III, a dynamic athlete while leading Baylor 218 pounds, missed major stretches of his pro career as a result of consistent injury. In five NFL seasons, the former No. 2 overall selection only appeared in 42 games.

Of the top 16 NFL quarterbacks during the 2016-2017 season, only four weighed less than 218 pounds, and none was selected in the first round of the NFL draft. Simply put, it would appear that pro teams typically are weary of selecting a slight quarterback with a high pick. While thinner quarterbacks typically run fast 40-yard dashes and can be dynamic athletes, they are also far more likely to get injured and thus become unreliable.

[Dutch Oven]

And from the same forum:

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/202893-josh-allen-one-of-the-most-overrated-qb-prospects-this-decade/

[SD_Tom]

4 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/ucla-football-is-josh-rosen-a-sure-fire-franchise-quarterback-053017

Measureables

Josh Rosen is listed at 6-foot-3 and 218 pounds.

Of the 21 quarterbacks taken in the top 60 picks since 2012 Rosen, is tied for the fourth-shortest. While Rosen isn’t as short as say Johnny Manziel, who’s listed at 5-foot-11, he is slightly shorter than the prototypical NFL QB.

Of the 16 highest-ranked quarterbacks of 2016 according to Pro Football Focus, only seven stood 6-foot-3 or shorter. Of the seven, only one quarterback, Aaron Rodgers, was selected in the first round. While it is telling that players 6-foot-3 and shorter can still be incredibly successful in the NFL, it is interesting to note that only one was a first-round pick, and a late one at that.

Teams shy away from players who are too short in the first round of the draft because of fears that their lack of stature will impact their ability to see the field once the ball in snapped.

Similarly teams often shy away from players who weigh less than 220 pounds.

Of the 21 QBs taken in the top 60 picks of the NFL draft since 2012, only six weigh less than Rosen.

NFL teams routinely pass over light quarterbacks because of fear of injury. A quarterback like Robert Griffin III, a dynamic athlete while leading Baylor 218 pounds, missed major stretches of his pro career as a result of consistent injury. In five NFL seasons, the former No. 2 overall selection only appeared in 42 games.

Of the top 16 NFL quarterbacks during the 2016-2017 season, only four weighed less than 218 pounds, and none was selected in the first round of the NFL draft. Simply put, it would appear that pro teams typically are weary of selecting a slight quarterback with a high pick. While thinner quarterbacks typically run fast 40-yard dashes and can be dynamic athletes, they are also far more likely to get injured and thus become unreliable.

At least use the combine stats, where they were all actually weighed and measured.  Rosen was actually bigger than Darnold. 

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2018/3/1/17068320/2018-nfl-combine-complete-quarterback-weigh-in-results

 

 

[calfoxwc]

the other measurements didn't take into account rosen's "swelled head".

[Orion]

Jim Mora Jr. just won't stop talking about Rosen.  He's not a good 'fit' for Cleveland, Darnold is the better, grittier, more blue collar fit for Cleveland.  Josh needs to be intellectually challenged by his coach so Pat Shurmur would be better for him.  Meanwhile Rosen and his agent are like, "Will somebody shut that phucking guy up?!"

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

the other measurements didn't take into account rosen's "swelled head".

Your obsession with Rosen is getting to John Hinkley/Jodie Foster level. 

[Tour2ma]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

And from the same forum:

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/202893-josh-allen-one-of-the-most-overrated-qb-prospects-this-decade/

Is dat one a dem "cow pies" cal talked about someone steppin' in in another thread?

The training continues...

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

the other measurements didn't take into account rosen's "swelled head".

I will LMAO if "shorty" Baker Mayfield gets drafted ahead of Allen- and the possibility is there.  

[Tour2ma]

Interesting read from Fansided.... https://fansided.com/2018/04/02/josh-rosen-rumors-nfl-jim-mora-comments/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

==============================================================================================================================================

Josh Rosen criticism says more about coaches, NFL

by Peter Bukowski1 d ago

UCLA star Josh Rosen faces critics, including his former coach Jim Mora, but the criticisms are more about what’s wrong in the NFL than Rosen.

Imagine interviewing for a job and hearing afterward, the hiring manager feared you were too smart for the position, that your intelligence and interest in ideas beyond your work actually you potentially harmful to the workplace environment.

That would be absurd right?

That’s exactly what is happening to Josh Rosen, and it says more about NFL and football’s broken culture than it does about the UCLA star.

Here’s a note from Peter King’s MMQB after the combine, where he damns with the faintest, weirdest praise I can remember reading about an NFL player.

“After speaking to three coaches and two respected personnel people with an interest in quarterbacks in this draft, I can say this: Rosen helped his cause this weekend,                                 both as a thrower of the football and in getting his point across that being well-rounded and smart is not poisonous to a football team.” 

That last sentence bears repeating. Rosen had to prove to NFL teams his intellect and being a well-round person was not “poisonous” to his team.

I get paid to write words for a living and the only ones I could come up with after reading that were expletives.

If being smart and well-rounded is toxic to your culture, then your culture is the thing we should be criticizing. Think of places where that might be the case. Where could you possibly go where being intelligent and three-dimensional as a human is seen as a character flaw? And not just a flaw, but a pernicious one, capable of infecting your surroundings.

I can think of a few places, and most people wouldn’t want to go there.

Even caricatures of bro’d up frats in pop culture couldn’t get away with this level of knuckle-dragging.

Rosen’s former coach, Jim Mora, who has undermined Rosen at every turn, elaborated again Monday for King.

“He needs to be challenged intellectually so he doesn’t get bored. He’s a millennial. He wants to know why. Millennials, once they know why, they’re good. Josh has a lot of interests in life. If you can hold his concentration level and focus only on football for a few years, he will set the world on fire. He has so much ability, and he’s a really good kid.”

It’s important to remember Mora no longer coaches at UCLA, in large part based on his inability to maximize his talent. Brett Hundley didn’t get substantially better despite his vast tools, and neither did Rosen. That’s on Mora. So let’s start there: he’s not the most reliable narrator on what players need. If he knew, he would have had more success.

But he tells on himself here. Rosen wants to know “why?” Really? That’s his character flaw? A quarterback, who has to know what everyone is doing on a given play and how to respond in any situation, wants to know why a play works a certain way, or why his read goes X to Y instead of Y to X. Yes, he must be a witch. Burn him at the stake.

Quarterbacks meticulously dissect every aspect of a play, their own and the defense’s response. The “why” is essential to understanding. If he doesn’t know why a safety acts a certain way reacting to a play, or why the site adjustment is what it is, then he’s acting without being prepared. He’s being a robot, not a football player.

And now we’ve reached the heart of the issue.

Teams expect conformity. A player who needs to be “intellectually stimulated” may ask questions. He may push back on a concept or argue with a coach. Heaven forbid anyone question the authority and power of the head coach.

You know whose players don’t ask “why?”? The Patriots. But that’s because Belichick prepares them for every eventuality, to understand every situation. He wants his players to know why. They don’t have to ask. And if they did, he’d have an answer, because he knows.

Mora doesn’t. And plenty of coaches in the league don’t. They’d rather have a quarterback fail saying “Yes, sir” than a quarterback succeed asking “why?”

Sam Darnold says “I don’t care where I play,” which is what teams want to hear. Rosen says “I want to go to a place where I’ll fit the best,” and he’s the outlier, even if that’s a reasonable and logical thing to say, something we’d all feel in that situation.

The beauty is the teams who won’t like Rosen because he’s smart and well-rounded don’t deserve a cerebral, detail-oriented quarterback. Troglodytes won’t be rewarded.

Does that mean Rosen is a lock to be the best quarterback in the draft? Of course not. But the criticisms of him reflect a flaw in football culture as a whole. If anything is “toxic” it’s a culture that rejects intellectual curiosity in favor of conformity and obedience.

Let guys like Mora and the anonymous coaches/scouts whisper to reporters, but remember it says more about them than it does about Rosen.

[SD_Tom]

5 hours ago, Orion said:

Jim Mora Jr. just won't stop talking about Rosen.  He's not a good 'fit' for Cleveland, Darnold is the better, grittier, more blue collar fit for Cleveland.  Josh needs to be intellectually challenged by his coach so Pat Shurmur would be better for him.  Meanwhile Rosen and his agent are like, "Will somebody shut that phucking guy up?!"

Came back and said he considers him the best player in the draft.  Then still went on to say pat shurmer would be a great fit for him.  Maybe not a Hue fan? Valid concern,  seeing as hue will likely be canned this season.  He's had 3 ocs at ucla, and probably wants some continuity. 

Here's what the OC /interim coach said. Sure makes it sound like this season was a trial run in the NFL.  He was basically running an NFL offense the entire year.  

 

[Tour2ma]

Sean Wagner-McGough‏Verified account @seanjwagner

Weird that millennial Josh Rosen is being criticized for asking why when non-millennial Peyton Manning was known for grilling his coaches in meetings.

12:37 PM - 2 Apr 2018

[calfoxwc]

not much poise in the washington game. 57% completion percentage. LOL

[calfoxwc]

http://larrybrownsports.com/college-football/espn-josh-rosen-toughness-leadership/405547

ESPN announcers question Josh Rosen’s toughness, leadership

The uncertainty surrounding his situation didn’t stop ESPN’s announcing team of Brock Huard and Bob Wischusen from questioning Rosen’s toughness. They brought up examples of other quarterbacks who have played hurt and said NFL scouts and teams would wonder about how tough the QB is if he was sidelined by a finger injury.

As if that weren’t rough enough on the QB, sideline reporter Allison Williams joined in a few minutes later by questioning Rosen’s leadership.

“I’ve been watching him down on the sidelines, and I gotta say I did not like how he responded as things went south,” Williams said during a fourth quarter report while UCLA was trailing 37-16. “At the beginning of the game he was engaged, he was asking a lot of questions, which is his trademark. And then as he started to struggle, he got quiet. And the one thing I noticed: When things weren’t going well, it wasn’t him going up to his teammates saying, ‘Hey, we’re going to be alright.’ It was his teammates going up to him saying, ‘Hey, are we going to be alright?’

“I just thought it was interesting, when things got tough, the way he got quiet.”

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

not much poise in the washington game. 57% completion percentage. LOL

Which means during any given game of Josh Allen's season he had little poise?

Impressive 6.7 yards per attempt from Allen too, Princess. 

[SD_Tom]

57% is far better than the 37% vs Oregon Allen put up.  Or the 47% vs Hawaii,  or the 44% vs Boise st,  or the 50% vs Colorado St. 

And yes Rosen carried ucla.  They went 1-6 without him. 

Let's check out a common opponent 

 

[Mark O]

y'all are wasting your time.  He can't see any of that past his hatred for Rosen and/or his love of Allen or a combination of both.   He's irrational about both sides of this and it's impossible to discuss something with an irrational person.

[calfoxwc]

well, sissy markie - here's the thing - Allen played with a far lesser cast of quality players by far, than rosen did.

and Allen didn't have an ex-NFL hc - rosen did. If you think rosen would have been successful as Allen was at Wyoming...

that would be a huge laugh. The whole point is, the appraisal of qb's is far more complex than you doing your sissy love affair dance with rosen about his completion percentage. Note - The ESPN announcers questioned his toughness, not me.

We'll just see how the draft goes.

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

And yes Rosen carried ucla.  They went 1-6 without him. 

Let's check out a common opponent 

that would have meaning if they played with the same players. They didn't.

Here's more to the point:

Wyoming has a student population of about 9788 undergraduate students.

UCLA  - has about 30,873.

I've already showed how many seniors will be eligible for the draft from UCLA.

and from Wyoming. UCLA had the huge advantage.

and they didn't go 1-6 without him. His last year the only games he missed was Utah and the bowl game, and skipped his bowl game.

https://www.masterresource.org/wind-power/15-bad-things-windpower/

[SD_Tom]

7 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

that would have meaning if they played with the same players. They didn't.

Here's more to the point:

Wyoming has a student population of about 9788 undergraduate students.

UCLA  - has about 30,873.

I've already showed how many seniors will be eligible for the draft from UCLA.

and from Wyoming. UCLA had the huge advantage.

and they didn't go 1-6 without him. His last year the only games he missed was Utah and the bowl game, and skipped his bowl game.

https://www.masterresource.org/wind-power/15-bad-things-windpower/

They went 1-5 in 2016 without him as the starter. So I guess it's actually 1-7. Thanks for pointing that out. No wonder Mora got fired. 

Maybe Wyoming can't get better players because Wyoming sucks, that's why B and C level players end up there. 

Here's the Washington game. Does this look like a horrible game for the QB? It's also a nice Vita Vea HL reel. 

 

[7moses7]

Rosen will cop an attitude if the Browns plan is to have the QB of the future sit year 1

[TexasAg1969]

14 hours ago, Mark O said:

y'all are wasting your time.  He can't see any of that past his hatred for Rosen and/or his love of Allen or a combination of both.   He's irrational about both sides of this and it's impossible to discuss something with an irrational person.

I know Mark, but one last time.

13 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Allen played with a far lesser cast of quality players by far, than rosen did..

It was not the cast,  it was the missed passes to players who had gotten open against the lessor cast of players they were up against. Throw out the games against the top opponents and that is still what any person watching entire games will see. Strong, inaccurate arm. Yes, his pro day against the windless dome looked better for short &  intermediate passes, but the long throws were a joke with one exception.

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I know Mark, but one last time.

It was not the cast,  it was the missed passes to players who had gotten open against he lessor cast of players they were up against. Throw out the games against the top opponents and that is still what any person watching entire games will see. Strong, inaccurate arm. Yes, his pro day against the windless dome looked better for short &  intermediate passes, but the long throws were a joke with one exception.

Allen took them all the way to the bowl game, and WON the bowl game. that he has to work on his footwork - not a big deal to me, since he is very, very athletic, and showed significant improvement even by the combine - where Darnold wasn't sure he could improve enough by then....

Allen never had an ex-NFL head coach gromming him for his years in college. And he still is a better prospect than rosen.

Mayock has Allen the #2 qb behind DArnold.

Mel Kiper has the Browns taking Allen with the overall #1 pick. I agree with him - Allen IS that great a prospect.

CBSSports R.J. White's mock draft has the Browns taking Allen with the #1 pick.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/two-round-2018-nfl-mock-draft-broncos-take-barkley-as-qbs-go-1-2-3-4-after-trade/

oh, btw, the same mock has the Patriots taking Miller, rosen LEFT TACKLE in the first round.

https://www.ohio.com/akron/sports/browns/cleveland-browns-2018-nfl-mock-draft-roundup-wyomings-josh-allen-at-no-1-overall

In December, ESPN senior writer Ian O’Connor said on Twitter an NFC personnel executive is “convinced” the Browns would take Allen. Peter King of Sports Illustrated has also heard rumblings about Allen landing in Cleveland based on new general manager John Dorsey wanting his version of Carson Wentz.

“I believe there is no way Cleveland, at number one, will pass on [Wyoming quarterback] Josh Allen,” a college scout told King for his Monday Morning Quarterback column. “This is Wentz reincarnated. Allen’s a perfect Dorsey quarterback. Just watch.”

It isn't just some of us on this forum. It's people in the NFL and in the media.

 

 

 

 

inRead invented by Teads

“Though unlikely, it isn’t coming out of thin air. Allen’s stats leave a lot to be desired, but his size and arm talent are through the roof,” Sikkema wrote. “If the right quarterback coach can get his hands on him, there’s a chance he can rise to the selection.”

It’s not the first time Allen’s name has been bandied about for the Browns.

In December, ESPN senior writer Ian O’Connor said on Twitter an NFC personnel executive is “convinced” the Browns would take Allen. Peter King of Sports Illustrated has also heard rumblings about Allen landing in Cleveland based on new general manager John Dorsey wanting his version of Carson Wentz.

“I believe there is no way Cleveland, at number one, will pass on [Wyoming quarterback] Josh Allen,” a college scout told King for his Monday Morning Quarterback column. “This is Wentz reincarnated. Allen’s a perfect Dorsey quarterback. Just watch.”

[Tour2ma]

12 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

Maybe Wyoming can't get better players because Wyoming sucks, that's why B and C level players end up there. 

Pretty much the story of the whole Mountain West...

Is there a Mountain East?

[SD_Tom]

8 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Pretty much the story of the whole Mountain West...

Is there a Mountain East?

If he's a really good prospect,  he'll go to a MAC powerhouse like Miami University 

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

“Though unlikely, it isn’t coming out of thin air. Allen’s stats leave a lot to be desired, but his size and arm talent are through the roof,” “If the right quarterback coach can get his hands on him, there’s a chance he can rise to the selection.”It’s not the first time Allen’s name has been bandied about for the Browns.In December, ESPN senior writer Ian O’Connor said on Twitter an NFC personnel executive is “convinced” the Browns would take Allen. Peter King of Sports Illustrated has also heard rumblings about Allen landing in Cleveland based on new general manager John Dorsey wanting his version of Carson Wentz.“I believe there is no way Cleveland, at number one, will pass on [Wyoming quarterback] Josh Allen,” a college scout told King for his Monday Morning Quarterback column. “This is Wentz reincarnated. Allen’s a perfect Dorsey quarterback. Just watch.”

In reply to the parts I've bolded.

1) Yup, they're looking at as (can't remember who) said, arm Talent, not arm ACCURACY. Way too many scouts fall in love with that parameter. 

2) Right quarterback coach? Hue Jackson? God help us in that scenario!!! I don't know about you, but with the #1 overall pick- I'd like to minimize my chances that pick is going to bust. 

3) Wentz reincarnated? Like Hell, not even close, other than physical parameters. Did they ever watch any of Carson's games at ND State? I have.  

[DieHardBrownsFan]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Pretty much the story of the whole Mountain West...

Is there a Mountain East?

Padua on State Road.

[Mark O]

6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Pretty much the story of the whole Mountain West...

Is there a Mountain East?

Mountain West does generate some very good players.  But those players (like Rashaad Penny) have good to great stats even when they play teams from the bigger and better conferences.