Brown's top players to rebuild with?

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Being a new Brown's fan, and very excited about the upcoming draft, I would like your opinions of which are our (if I may use that word so soon) very best and young players we hope to continue building the team around and their positions.  I guess another way to put it is which players would you definitely want to keep and which positions are we very solid at.  Thx.

[Nero]

@thenew23 did a preety nice analysis in the following thread: 

 

Myles Garret and Ogbah are a nice pair of DE, but they haven't been together too much, Collins and Schobert are our best LBs. 

Both lines are OK, and running backs aren't bad either. Duke Johnson is a nice dual threat back, though he should improve protecting the ball. Crowell lacks vision but puts up good numbers.

Tight ends DeValve and Njoku are young and they show some promise, considering they didn't have the best QB throwing at them.

Colquitt is a nice punter and Gonzalez had a really bad season start but the second half of the season he has played very well, I'm intrigued to see how will he evolve. I believe he was the top kicker prospect of his generation. 

Teams biggest holes are secondary, receivers and QB, I'd say. 

Bear in mind than the ones I mentioned above haven't done anything great or amazing. In a losing team with as many problems as the Browns, the whole team underperforms and even the best corps don't look good because suffer the flaws of the rest of the team. 

For example, our secondary is bad and we haven't used press coverage the whole year, allowing many short throws and giving our pass rushers little or no time to get to the QB many times. Same goes with our RBs (our pass offense was a joke) and our LB's pass defense, as we had our FS seven miles away and couldn't help them on coverage.

Also, among those corps that are good, we need depth. Jamie Collins is our best LB and we missed him badly when he got injured. 

[gumby73]

That's a good picture of it Nero..I will add in, once the injuries to Ogbah & Collins went down with Myles going in & out on ankle,Gregg Williams seemed to pick up the amount of failed blitz's. With FS still 7 miles off. Unless Tank Carder is better than Mingo/G.Robertson in coverage? We really need DB's & LB's that can run & cover..Back end Zone coverage was awful to watch..most important, they cannot whiff on tackling..after contact yards got much worse final 3 games including DL  

[miktoxic]

B.U.LL.S.H.I.T. maybe 6-8 players are starter capable for another bad team. lines are not that good and get ready for JT's retirement. the OL will need (IMO) about a 75% rebuild and we might have a couple of LBs, a couple DEs and DL that are decent. but after that it's a S.h.i.t.e. show. our running game sucks. and gordon is only decent receiver who might never see those #s again put up the last year before his other (upon other, upon other) suspension for smoking weed.

[TexasAg1969]

Fitzpatrick is a must. The guy is smart and runs Saban's D on the field. A very good experienced QB and another either @ 1 or 4 overall. A RB round 2 along with another DB & WR if we can't find a good one not looking for the big retirement check. That takes care of rounds 1 & 2. And find another experienced pass rusher like Denver found for Miller. Can't have those QBs overprotecting from Garrett. It worked there and can work here.

EDIT: Better yet use some of the draft capital and cap money to steal Miller from Denver. Can you imagine those two coming from opposite sides every play?

[The Gipper]

I suspect that after the free agency period....and the draft that there could be as much as a 50% turnover of the players on this team.

[Tour2ma]

8 hours ago, miktoxic said:

B.U.LL.S.H.I.T. maybe 6-8 players are starter capable for another bad team.

Simply not the right criteria... or responsive to the OP... or accurate, IMO.

Adding players that force 2017 starters into backup roles means instant, good quality depth is added.

 

[jcam222]

18 hours ago, SissyBoyFloyd said:

Being a new Brown's fan, and very excited about the upcoming draft, I would like your opinions of which are our (if I may use that word so soon) very best and young players we hope to continue building the team around and their positions.  I guess another way to put it is which players would you definitely want to keep and which positions are we very solid at.  Thx.

 

Here are my thoughts on the Offense only. May look through D later. 

 

QB - no true core player to build around. You keep Kizer for another year due to draft investment . Kessler and Hogan are throw away. Here we add a vet and a 1/2 round draft pick

RB - Duke Johnson is a solid 3rd down back. No other "core player" in my book, Here we add a high draft pick and a FA 

WR - Josh Gordon and Corey Coleman (as a number 3 or slot maybe) Need to add a solid number 2 via FA and a flyer or two from the draft. The number 2 we add needs to have number 1 potential due to Gordon's history

TE - Njoku , Devalve and Telfer - with year two development from Njoku I see no immediate needs here

OT - Joe Thomas and Drango I see as starters (likely will get flamed on Drango) We need to draft a LT heir apparent to Joe either this year or next

OG - Zeitler and Bitonion are solid gold

C - Tretter and Reither i think are solid too

K - Gonazalez - Hoping hes got it together but we need to bring in camp competition 

 

 

[Clevfan4life]

The defense should have players added to it but no major overhaul. Id be ok with saying cya to either ogbah, nassib or orchard....or all 3 if we bring in enough FA's. Secondary could use a vet and minkah..they'd be fine. LB'ers could "maybe" use a veteran mlb'er to teach schobert. I like schobert just not confident we will have the coaching staff to bring him up where we need him

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Do Brown's D play a 3-4 of more of a 4-3 type D?  

[Dutch Oven]

11 minutes ago, SissyBoyFloyd said:

Do Brown's D play a 3-4 of more of a 4-3 type D?  

4-3

[SissyBoyFloyd]

15 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

4-3

Thx, that is what I thought looking at depth chart.

[gumby73]

13 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Fitzpatrick is a must. The guy is smart and runs Saban's D on the field. A very good experienced QB and another either @ 1 or 4 overall. 

Spent a few hours on Fitzpatrick tape tonight..need or not..we can't pass on this Kat at #4..We certainly need his leadership in our secondary. Watch this taz-animal Monday night..I think he makes it to #4 also..I could also see Denver#5(now with Elway snaking around Senior Bowl) or Jets#6 trading up to Colts at #3 to get a QB(neither need S with Adams/Hooker/Ag, is Denver still good at FS-talib/S-harris or is it a need?)NYG's would be silly not to take this guy with Getleman now around at #2..In 91 Browns took Eric Turner at #2...somehow Dorsey, get Minkah a solid orange helmet...pleeassee..no Gil-Burnt at #8 here. Take away QB cat fight in top 5,Fitz is top 3 talent.. 

[Louisville Slugger]

Qb- I honestly think Kessler could be a good game manager in the right offense. I'm not saying he is someone I would build a team around but if he ends up on a good team I think he could fill that Trent Dilfer role. I really wish Kizer could put it together. Good kid with all the raw talent and grit you can ask for, but he sucks.

Rb- Duke Johnson is under utilized but he can be a really important piece of this offense. We need a bell cow guy to pick up the tough yards. I like what little I saw in Dayes but he does a ot of the same stuff duke does. Crowell is trash. If has a while his burst is amazing but he goes down too easy and has no vision.

Wr- Josh Gordon is a stud but unreliable. Cory Coleman shows flashes of good and bad but he's always hurt. All of the other Wrs will be flipping burgers soon.

Te- Njoku shows promise. Devalve is an ok receiver. 

Ol- we have talent across the line they just need to get. 

Dl- garret and Ogbah will be a terror next year. We need depth behind them. Nassib is a decent rotation player. Our DTs are young and I think with some proper coaching our dline as a whole will be our strength.

Lb- Collins Schobert and Kirksey are good not great. None of them can cover even . Burgess has played well but there is no depth.

Cb- Boddy-calhoun is pretty good. The rest of these guys have played pretty bad. Howard Wilson was a promising prospect but got hurt. Im excited to see what he brings.

S- absolutely trash. Peppers might have a chance as an in the box safety but he sucks how we used him this year. Nacua was a ball hawk in college but shows no signs of that translating to the pros. Kindred is a serviceble strong safety. Maybe McCourty can play FS next year but who knows

[Dutch Oven]

I have a feeling who the Browns should take at #1 is going to cause some serious, drag-out fights on here for the next four months.

But Minkah Fitzpatrick at #4 IMO could be a pick nearly everyone can get behind.

[Nero]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

I have a feeling who the Browns should take at #1 is going to cause some serious, drag-out fights on here for the next four months.

But Minkah Fitzpatrick at #4 IMO could be a pick nearly everyone can get behind.

Isn't it ironic that most of us agree on #4 and not on #1? If we are doing something crazy in #1 (Allen, Jackson, I'm looking at you) and then don't take Fitzpatrick (or James?) in #4 this place is going to burn down.

I see #2 and #3 being QBs too, either taken by Giants and Colts or by a team trading up (with Colts pick, most likely).

[Clevfan4life]

6 hours ago, SissyBoyFloyd said:

Do Brown's D play a 3-4 of more of a 4-3 type D?  

did you watch any of the games? A 4-3 is typically characterized by 4 defensive lineman up at the line with their hands in the dirt. That was probably ~90% of defensive snaps this year. But it's more about personnel and their body types than the stances the edge players take. You could theoretically stand your DE"s up all game but if they never drop back in coverage you're still just running a weird 4-3 where your DE's are rushing from the two point. In a 3-4 your edge rushers are typically smaller LB'er types in the 250-270 range. OLB'ers in a 3-4 approaching 270 aren't that common because 3-4's use their edge players to drop back into coverage. 

For me personally I prefer the 4-3 with 4 big mofo's on the line. That way you can have some semblance of pressure just from the front 4. When you generate pressure from 4 down lineman you can do things with the LB'ers coverage wise that are crucial against teams like the Pats that make you eat sht if you have to blitz LB'ers. In the SB Atlanta was kicking their teeth in with just the front 4 but they tired out, once they did that was that. In this current NFL, generating pressure with 3 or 4 lineman should be the desired goal. That's why I prefer edges over 280. And if you can find athletic freaks like Watt who are 290 give or take a few lbs, those guys will crash the corners on every play so even if they don't get to the qb...the qb doesn't have miles of real estate to step up into. Most 3-4 edge rushers have to go fairly wide around the corner because they're smaller and have to go around the tackles instead of through them. I like my front 4 to go through their blockers as much as possible. Than an occasional blitz from one of the LB'ers becomes "deadly". 

This is why I'm terrified of another coaching change, I can just sense another Shiite 3-4 coming where we have to watch Mingo type OLB'ers get pushed out wide on pass rush and utterly obliterated at the point against the run. Good 3-4's have at least one OLB'er that's still hoss enough to hold up at the point, usually called the "hybrid" type of OLB'er....and the smaller cover type is usually protected somewhat by the 5 tech DL who lines up most of the time over tackle or between tackle and guard. It's not that I absolutely hate the 3-4, it can work and work "very" well if you find the right guys.....but I've yet to see that happen in Cleveland. It just seems like it's easier to get competent 4-3 players in Cleveland. The last time the defense looked like it was building was under Jaurons 4-3 when schurmer was coach. Soon as we went back to the 3-4 with Horton it was sht again. Mangini's 3-4 wasn't very good either and Pettine's....well we know how this story goes. God I just hope we stay in a 4-3 even if we fire everyone again. 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I love the 4-3 also with the studs to handle it.  2 monster DTs and a couple good edge rushers who can handle the run too is an ideal D to build on.  But I am old fashion i guess.

[stillmotion]

6 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I have a feeling who the Browns should take at #1 is going to cause some serious, drag-out fights on here for the next four months.

But Minkah Fitzpatrick at #4 IMO could be a pick nearly everyone can get behind.

I'm down with Minkah, dude could be our next Haden (old school joe).