The Browns are on the clock!

[Ghoolie]

Sad. 0-15 Hue may be staying, and we are talking draft.

Koi unhurt by in

[TexasAg1969]

8 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

Sad. 0-15 Hue may be staying, and we are talking draft.

Koi unhurt by in

Only Huey staying could make the Browns look more foolish that they already look. Where we get Houston's #1 is all that matters at this point in this foolish wasted season.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

On 12/24/2017 at 7:57 PM, PoeticG said:

I'll get to checking out this draft game and watching tape really soon but so far the only guy that I've seen that is transcendent looks like Saquon Barkley. He is the Anti-Crow, this kid really flys and man he's shifty AND fast- At the same time. Really like this RB. He brings another level. I would say that he's a Duke Johnson 3.14. Guys, he should be on our team in September. I'm going to look at these QBs but I'm thinking that Barkley is that player right now that you write down on the paper a little note to yourself- Open April 26th; "Barkley - No matter what" and tuck that mug into your pocket.

 

 

 

But is he another Trent Richardson?

[thenew23]

There is 1 thing the Browns havent tried since 1999... drafting a QB in the top half of the draft... hmmm....  maybe that could be the problem... considering the majority of great QBs all time have been drafted there... Not to mention our best QB of the v2.0 Browns was probably Tim Couch...

We "ruin" QBs because we draft crappy QBs... Let's TRY one of these top guys... what do you think?

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

OK.  They line up wide.  (my thinking was as a straight ahead runner while the bishops weave their way down field)

Rooks have more effect on any part of the board....where Bishops are limited to just one color square.  WRs have more room to roam, like rooks.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, thenew23 said:

There is 1 thing the Browns havent tried since 1999... drafting a QB in the top half of the draft... hmmm....  maybe that could be the problem... considering the majority of great QBs all time have been drafted there... Not to mention our best QB of the v2.0 Browns was probably Tim Couch...

We "ruin" QBs because we draft crappy QBs... Let's TRY one of these top guys... what do you think?

Fair statement.

[Clevfan4life]

I'm happy with saquon with the 5th pick, or 4th whatever. I'm in no mood for anyone talking about saquon with the 1st. Fuk you. #1 is a qb, period!! We have some decent O line play now so as long as he doesn't have that insane Kizer fetish to hold the ball for 10 minutes while running around, our O line should be able to decently protect him. So now is the time for a QB. Rosen, Allen and Darnold are better prospects than wentz and goff.....this year we can't fuk around. 

[Browns149]

Who’s playing QB for the Texans this week?  Both got hurt last week and they both looked as bad as Kizer has looked.  

I think the colts will beat the Texans 

[The Gipper]

26 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

Who’s playing QB for the Texans this week?  Both got hurt last week and they both looked as bad as Kizer has looked.  

I think the colts will beat the Texans 

TJ Yates is listed in the depth chart as #1.....but are you saying his is hurt?   Their backup is Taylor Heinke.

Edit: In checking, it seems that Yates avoided being sidelined with a concussion, and will start...the same may not be said for Heinke:

Texans' T.J. Yates: Sidesteps concussion diagnosis

by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Yates avoided a concussion during Monday's game versus the Steelers, Aaron Wilson of the Houston Chronicle reports.

Yates was knocked from the game after getting sacked for a fourth time near the end of the first. After a lengthy evaluation, he was cleared of any symptoms and returned to the sideline. A short time after he was given the thumbs up, his backup, Taylor Heinicke, left the game under similar circumstances and will be beholden to the protocol for head injuries. On a positive note, Yates is back under center for theTexans.

[Ghoolie]

11 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Only Huey staying could make the Browns look more foolish that they already look. Where we get Houston's #1 is all that matters at this point in this foolish wasted season.

I am fine jumping on the bandwagon and being optimistic that Dorsey can start bringing us better talent. I am supportive and hopeful of it. It is rare that one draft makes a huge change in a team, although we have seen improvement that Mariotta, Wentz, Goff, Watson, Trubisky, and others have made. Are the Browns just one QB from being a 8-8 up and comer? Or better?

Where my sticking point is centers around Hue Jackson not making one-single stride forward in reducing penalties, catching the ball, clock management, aggressive offense, and in general basic discipline and fundamental football. If we keep Hue, where do those things rise up from that they haven't over the course of 1 - 30?

Work with me here, am I to believe that all the stupid crap we do (dropping the football right before crossing the goal line) is because Hue was not given good talent? I am sorry, but this is a stretch for me. How can anyone argue that Hue Jackson has not failed in these basic tenets of pro football? What will Hue do in 2018, that somehow two years did not find him doing? This is just bizarre to me.

Finally, I have an issue with how the Hue matter has been treated by Haslam. No secret that I don't like Hue. However, as an owner I would never have even let the debate of whether or not Hue will be back, to be undertaken. Whether Hue is staying or not, this should never have been allowed to be kicked around in the media. Hue is the HC. That is the only answer that should have ever been given.

Now, maybe the average rabid fan, in all his urban culture glory, doesn't care how an owner or execs carry themselves, but I believe the quality players and execs do.

In the event that Haslam fires Hue after the season, he makes himself look bad by changing his mind. On the other hand, if Hue says, there is an inference, and the media will harp on it all next year, that Dorsey really does not have much clout. I just don't get how unprofessional Haslam and his collection of circle jerkers can be.

 

 

 

 

[jiggins7919]

19 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

If the Colts win they have the lower SOS so they pick before Houston and Houston before Tampa Bay even if they lose again.

EDIT: It will be interesting to see how many teams play their 2nd/3rd teamers to "tank" into a better pick this week. Too much calculus for this old guy to figure out.

 

Ok, so Colts win and we pick 4th?  Let the daydreaming begin.  Oh, and apparently John Dorsey doesn't want anything to do with Josh Rosen, nor does Rosen want to play for us.  Awesome.  So who the heck do we pick #1?  Darnold didn't want to come here either, did he?  And that's if he even comes out, LOL.  

[Dutch Oven]

36 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

 

Ok, so Colts win and we pick 4th?  Let the daydreaming begin.  Oh, and apparently John Dorsey doesn't want anything to do with Josh Rosen, nor does Rosen want to play for us.  Awesome.  So who the heck do we pick #1?  Darnold didn't want to come here either, did he?  And that's if he even comes out, LOL.  

Darnold said that he never said anything about not wanting to come to the Browns, for what it's worth.

Here's the reality boys - if you polled every draft eligible player on what team he DIDN'T want to go to, I feel safe to say that the Browns would easily win. I hate to say it - but can you blame them? Dorsey's job is to draft well and get the roster improved so the players who didn't want to be here look around and say, "You know what... I didn't want to come here, but there's talent here. We can win here."

Because there are very few locations in this nation that is a better place to play football as Cleveland when you win. There's a reason so many of the 80s guys still live here - and it isn't the weather. The 80s players - who won ZERO titles - are still treated like gods here.

[Louisville Slugger]

I don't get the love for Barkley at all. He's an athletic freak but he isnt all that as a running back. We've had Gurley, Zeke, and Fournette in the last couple drafts and I was all for taking one of them. Don't fall for the trend Barkley isn't on the same level. 

I have a similar grades for Barkley, Chubb, and Harris. Right now I have Chubb as the #1 running back and he could be had in the 2nd. There is no reason to take a running back in round 1 in this draft

[Dutch Oven]

11 minutes ago, Louisville Slugger said:

I don't get the love for Barkley at all. He's an athletic freak but he isnt all that as a running back. We've had Gurley, Zeke, and Fournette in the last couple drafts and I was all for taking one of them. Don't fall for the trend Barkley isn't on the same level. 

I have a similar grades for Barkley, Chubb, and Harris. Right now I have Chubb as the #1 running back and he could be had in the 2nd. There is no reason to take a running back in round 1 in this draft

There's almost never any reason to take a RB so early.

Get yourself three decent RBs and rotate them in. When one approaches free agency, let him go and replace him with a mid-round rookie. Rinse, repeat.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Louisville Slugger said:

I don't get the love for Barkley at all. He's an athletic freak but he isnt all that as a running back. We've had Gurley, Zeke, and Fournette in the last couple drafts and I was all for taking one of them. Don't fall for the trend Barkley isn't on the same level. 

I have a similar grades for Barkley, Chubb, and Harris. Right now I have Chubb as the #1 running back and he could be had in the 2nd. There is no reason to take a running back in round 1 in this draft

I also like Chubb better than Barkley Dog.

[Nero]

About all the chatter with the Draft order... Current pick is #4

If Houston wins, we go ONE SPOT DOWN in each of this cases (2 spots if both cases happen):

- If Denver doesn't win vs Kansas City 

- Tampa Bay doesn't win vs Saints 

 

If Houston losses, we go one spot up if:

- Tampa Bay wins vs Saints. If Tampa wins, then there would be only Colts and Texans with 4-12, so then it would be head to head and Colts would have won both games. 

If there is a triple tie between those teams, the order is #3 Colts #4 Texans #5 Buccaneers because the tiebreaker is the strength of schedule. It would be ironic because if Colts win they would end up 3rd in AFCS and still pick higher than Texans, which doesn't make any sense to me.

NOTES: 

1. Kansas City has already a playoff berth, and are locked in the 4th seed (Chargers can't overtake them as they lost both head to head matches and can't overtake the Jaguars, I believe because they have a worse record with common rivals)

2. The Saints (4th seed) lost to the Rams, so they can't get 3rd seed. If they lose, BUT Falcons win vs Panthers, they keep the Division title. Falcons not only play at home, but also winning they assure a playoff spot independently of what Seahawks do. 

I used Tankathon and Playoff predictor, I hope all of the above is correct.

[Bigalow80]

I like Barkley, but if it were up to me I wait and draft Rashaad Penny in the second

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rashaad+penny+highlights&view=detail&mid=F225077DFD20E82B7160F225077DFD20E82B7160&FORM=VIRE

What happens if the Browns pay a guy like Cousins, Bridgewater, or even McCarron? trade for Alex Smith? Essentially, any other qb on the market that could be deemed a viable starter.. What do they then, do with the number one overall pick? Do you still take a qb? Do you trade down? Do you still draft a qb and sit him? Does this mean you are more open to drafting a guy like Josh Allen who needs time to develop? Is Josh Allen Paxton Lynch, 2.0?

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Nero said:

About all the chatter with the Draft order... Current pick is #4

If Houston wins, we go ONE SPOT DOWN in each of this cases (2 spots if both cases happen):

- If Denver doesn't win vs Kansas City 

- Tampa Bay doesn't win vs Saints 

 

If Houston losses, we go one spot up if:

- Tampa Bay wins vs Saints. If Tampa wins, then there would be only Colts and Texans with 4-12, so then it would be head to head and Colts would have won both games. 

If there is a triple tie between those teams, the order is #3 Colts #4 Texans #5 Buccaneers because the tiebreaker is the strength of schedule. It would be ironic because if Colts win they would end up 3rd in AFCS and still pick higher than Texans, which doesn't make any sense to me.

NOTES: 

1. Kansas City has already a playoff berth, and are locked in the 4th seed (Chargers can't overtake them as they lost both head to head matches and can't overtake the Jaguars, I believe because they have a worse record with common rivals)

2. The Saints (4th seed) lost to the Rams, so they can't get 3rd seed. If they lose, BUT Falcons win vs Panthers, they keep the Division title. Falcons not only play at home, but also winning they assure a playoff spot independently of what Seahawks do. 

I used Tankathon and Playoff predictor, I hope all of the above is correct.

You must have been reading my mind as I was just contemplating this. 

But I am still trying to get this right.  Now...per Tankathon, DATs/Browns have the #4 pick.  The Colts have #3 and the Bucs have #5 

But you seem to be saying that if the DATs lose to the Colts....and the Bucs lose to the Saints, they would jump the DAT pick, giving the Bucs #3 and the Browns would stay at #4.    

Is that what you are saying?

I question if the Bucs can end up with a lower SOS than the Texans....their SOS right now is at .558.  The DATs is at .508.  

And I do not believe that head to head is ever used for determining draft order....only SOS. Even if the Colts sweep the DATs, if they are tied...and have a weaker SOS, they would still pick higher than the DATs.  I DO see where the Broncos would pick higher if they lose and the Texans win....as their SOS is now at .483.

I guess we just have to see how it plays out.

[Nero]

13 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

You must have been reading my mind as I was just contemplating this. 

But I am still trying to get this right.  Now...per Tankathon, DATs/Browns have the #4 pick.  The Colts have #3 and the Bucs have #5 

But you seem to be saying that if the DATs lose to the Colts....and the Bucs lose to the Saints, they would jump the DAT pick, giving the Bucs #3 and the Browns would stay at #4.    

Is that what you are saying?

I question if the Bucs can end up with a lower SOS than the Texans....their SOS right now is at .558.  The DATs is at .508.  

And I do not believe that head to head is ever used for determining draft order....only SOS. Even if the Colts sweep the DATs, if they are tied...and have a weaker SOS, they would still pick higher than the DATs.  I DO see where the Broncos would pick higher if they lose and the Texans win....as their SOS is now at .483.

I guess we just have to see how it plays out.

What I'm implying, because I think it's reasonable, is that if there are only Colts and Texans (what does DAT stand for?) Tied at 4-12, Colts would be 3rd in AFC South and Texans 4th, so to me, the reasonable thing is that Texans pick ahead the Colts, as they ended up the league in a worse position. 

I understand SOS being used as the first tiebreaker in teams from different divisions or even conferences, but using it when both tied teams are in the same division... How many different teams do they play during the year? 2?

So, for them to be the only two teams in 4-12, the Buccaneers have to win.

[The Gipper]

10 minutes ago, Nero said:

What I'm implying, because I think it's reasonable, is that if there are only Colts and Texans (what does DAT stand for?) Tied at 4-12, Colts would be 3rd in AFC South and Texans 4th, so to me, the reasonable thing is that Texans pick ahead the Colts, as they ended up the league in a worse position. 

That is "reasonable"  but that is not the way the system is set up.   SOS is the only difference maker...unless that is a tie...then they go to somewhere else.  If the DumbAssTexans (it is a long held nickname around here for them because most Texans are dumbasses )  have the lower SOS they will get the higher pick....regardless of division or head to head record

I understand SOS being used as the first tiebreaker in teams from different divisions or even conferences, but using it when both tied teams are in the same division... How many different teams do they play during the year? 2?

See above....it is irrelevent to draft positioning.

So, for them to be the only two teams in 4-12, the Buccaneers have to win.

Which they won't....the Saints aren't going to lose to them.

 

[Ghoolie]

Great.franchise. As the playoff picture heats up we look to April. Then another circle.jerk.

[The Gipper]

13 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

Great.franchise. As the playoff picture heats up we look to April. Then another circle.jerk.

Story of YOUR life, no?

[Nero]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

 

That means we will have #4, #5 or #6 pick. 

[Dutch Oven]

When the Browns made the trade I was just hoping the Texans would be somewhere around .500 and miss the playoffs, giving us a #15-20 range first rounder.

This turn of events could help the Browns turn their fortune around, if they can take advantage of their good luck.

[syd]

8 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

When the Browns made the trade I was just hoping the Texans would be somewhere around .500 and miss the playoffs, giving us a #15-20 range first rounder.

This turn of events could help the Browns turn their fortune around, if they can take advantage of their good luck.

just heard hue will keep his promise and jump into the lake maybe this good fortune you speak of starts there

[PoeticG]

I'm in the Mayfield/Barkley 2018 Campaign right now. We need playmakers, guys to put points on the board, guys who can get into the endzone. Our Defense is really good and may surprise quite a few if the offense could actually challenge somebody... or score more than three points a game. 

Kizer isn't the guy, he's got no "it" other than his arm strength but to be honest-  What good is a biomechanical arm if it's wired to a potato?

I'll take a far less superior arm if it's actually attached to a football player. Whereas in Kizer's case he's just "acting" like a football player. 

Hogan and Mayfield with Barkley in the backfield. Gordon back 100% will be huge as will Coleman even further removed from his injury. 

Stock up on some blue-chip borderline first round talent at CB/S and LB. Getting Collins back healthy, and everybody really, it is going to be great. 

 

[jiggins7919]

21 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Darnold said that he never said anything about not wanting to come to the Browns, for what it's worth.

Here's the reality boys - if you polled every draft eligible player on what team he DIDN'T want to go to, I feel safe to say that the Browns would easily win. I hate to say it - but can you blame them? Dorsey's job is to draft well and get the roster improved so the players who didn't want to be here look around and say, "You know what... I didn't want to come here, but there's talent here. We can win here."

Because there are very few locations in this nation that is a better place to play football as Cleveland when you win. There's a reason so many of the 80s guys still live here - and it isn't the weather. The 80s players - who won ZERO titles - are still treated like gods here.

You're absolutely right. Darnold just said that IF he comes out, he'd be honored to play anywhere. VERY smart man. I don't love Darnold's skill set as much as Rosen's, but I keep reading about how Darnold has the moxie and heart that coaches want as their leader. THAT makes me excited about possibly drafting him because it's going to take a special young man to really make it work in Cleveland...as we all know. And who knows? It may very well be Deshone Kizer. There have been so many awful rookie seasons from qb's that didn't define their careers. Personally I wouldn't bet on it, but we know Deshone is a worker. He may be in the same offensive system, which is huge. He might actually have receiver weapons (Cmon Josh, we're rooting for you), and anything is possible. 

Darnold doesn't throw as clean as Rosen, and his arm isn't as powerful. Additionally, Darnold's delivery is a little long and needs to be cleaned up, but he has the power and lower body strength to get it done, and it wouldn't surprise me if he looks better during the combine and his pro day after working with whatever qb guru he chooses. Of course, he very well may choose to return to college, and while I personally think that's a mistake, it's up to him. College will always be there when you're rich...and the #1 pick is rich. 

The qb that helps the beleaguered Browns turn the corner is going to be a special person. It's going to be a guy who wants the biggest possible challenge and doesn't shy away from it. It's going to be a player with a ton of confidence and heart, as well as someone who has the mental fortitude needed to fight through the inevitable problems and issues that come with playing for us. It's going to be a guy who understands that if he can do it, if he can actually be THE MAN....he will live on in eternity as a hero and literally be a football deity. 

[TexasAg1969]

If Dorsey is dead set against Rosen then Darnold would be my second choice. But only if he has an experienced QB to learn behind like Rodgers had in GB. The one thing he has that Rosen does not is the ability to run similar to Rodgers. Now if he can learn to continue with progressions when forced to run, then he's getting into that same league. Got to cure those happy feet though. If we get Smith to teach him I will be elated about our prospects for 2018. Here are dates of significance next year including UFA and RFA. 

https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2018-important-nfl-dates/

Here is Smith's current contract-not sure how it works if we want to trade for him or when we can start that process. Anyone got an answer?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/alex-smith-3337/

EDIT: I'm looking forward to see how Darnold does against OSU tomorrow night. Major audition!

 

 

[jiggins7919]

43 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

If Dorsey is dead set against Rosen then Darnold would be my second choice. But only if he has an experienced QB to learn behind like Rodgers had in GB. The one thing he has that Rosen does not is the ability to run similar to Rodgers. Now if he can learn to continue with progressions when forced to run, then he's getting into that same league. Got to cure those happy feet though. If we get Smith to teach him I will be elated about our prospects for 2018. Here are dates of significance next year including UFA and RFA. 

https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2018-important-nfl-dates/

Here is Smith's current contract-not sure how it works if we want to trade for him or when we can start that process. Anyone got an answer?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/alex-smith-3337/

EDIT: I'm looking forward to see how Darnold does against OSU tomorrow night. Major audition!

 

 

That's a very good point, as OSU normally has multiple NFL caliber defenders on their team, and this year is likely to be no different.  Furthermore, OSU has some corners that are likely to be first or second rounders, so it'll be fun to see how Darnold does against them (and whether or not the receivers can help him out and get open).  It's truly a big game for the kid.  It almost feels like if he tanks it, he'll come back to school, but if he does great, he's certainly coming out.  I have no factual basis for that statement (surprising, right?  lol), but it's just an observation.  I don't think ONE game really can say all THAT much, but we'll see!

[Dutch Oven]

6 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

That's a very good point, as OSU normally has multiple NFL caliber defenders on their team, and this year is likely to be no different.  Furthermore, OSU has some corners that are likely to be first or second rounders, so it'll be fun to see how Darnold does against them (and whether or not the receivers can help him out and get open).  It's truly a big game for the kid.  It almost feels like if he tanks it, he'll come back to school, but if he does great, he's certainly coming out.  I have no factual basis for that statement (surprising, right?  lol), but it's just an observation.  I don't think ONE game really can say all THAT much, but we'll see!

No, I don't think you are off with that opinion at all. I totally can see how this bowl game could be the difference between Darnold returning to USC or entering the Draft.

I think he should return. IMO, he regressed this season, and became sloppy. Sloppy in his mechanics, sloppy in turning the ball over. I know he's probably a guaranteed top 5 pick, but for his longterm success as a NFL pro, I think going back to USC for a third season is the way to go. If he comes out, and if the Browns drafted him, HE NEEDS TO SIT.

Rosen, on the other hand, really gains nothing by going back to UCLA. Head-to-head, Rosen seemed heads above Darnold at this point. Rosen going back to play for Chip Kelly gains him NOTHING in that high school nonsensical offense he runs. I see nothing gained by Rosen returning to school.