If Rosen stays for one more year, which QB are you taking?

[TexasAg1969]

5 hours ago, hoorta said:

Hey Steve- the Manning thing is just a Google away. 2004 draft- Chargers were #1 overall, Giants #4. For all intents and purposes, they swapped picks. 

Giants got Manning, Chargers got Rivers + a bunch of picks that turned into 2004 3rd, 2005 1st, and 2005 5th. Shawn Merriman, Nate Kaeding, and Roman Oben. 

MHO? If Rosen pulls a Manning, We swap picks with the Giants, move down from #1 to #2, take the QB they don't want (a Wentz level QB would be looking pretty good for the Browns now) and the Giants give us their 2019 first round pick. No deal? tough stuff Josh. 

PS- with Rosen getting concussed this year- and dinged previously, well there's the injury red flags. 

And if we do get a Smith or his equivalent pre-draft, I could live with Darnold or maybe even a sober Manziel 2.0 from OU as his understudy while taking the Giants 1st rounder in 2019. Much as I prefer the pure pocket guy, it would be worth it to trade down if he is set on going elsewhere. But if the Giants are set on someone else, there will be no trade down and  Rosen has to just suck it up and be a Brown.

Of course we can all see what's coming, no Smith or equivalent is acquired, Rosen and Darnold stay  in school, the Browns take Allen who turns into another turkey for the t-shirt and Hue goes 3-13 while calling it "improvement".

[Dutch Oven]

I'm racking my brain trying to think of the last QB taken in the top 5 who sat out his rookie season behind a vet QB.

Because if the Browns take Josh Allen with one of their first-rounders, that's what should happen.

[calfoxwc]

10 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

One more time, anybody know the particulars here?

WSS

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/archie-manning-gives-details-on-why-eli-refused-to-play-for-the-chargers/

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/eli-manning-glad-he-was-traded-in-2004-not-playing-in-a-soccer-stadium-in-los-angeles/

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm racking my brain trying to think of the last QB taken in the top 5 who sat out his rookie season behind a vet QB.

Because if the Browns take Josh Allen with one of their first-rounders, that's what should happen.

Here are some candidates...top 5 only:

Akili Smith only appeared in 4 games his rookie year

Mike Vick only started 2 games his rookie year

Vinny Testaverde only started 4 games his rookie year.

But...the only one I could find with -0- starts  who was a Top 5 pick since 1980 was:  Art Schlichter.     (and who knows why that was...it may have had nothing to do with his on field play)

[SD_Tom]

Art S.  Was a gambling addict and con artist. Went to prison. 

Did an American Greed show on him.  What a scumbag pos

[Browns1216]

if rosen doesn't declare?  i'd go with baker mayfield.  actually, i think i'd go for mayfield regardless, because as mentioned in another thread rosen just isn't that good-looking of a guy  

[Dutch Oven]

10 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

Art S.  Was a gambling addict and con artist. Went to prison. 

Did an American Greed show on him.  What a scumbag pos

I think the FBI arrested him in my hometown (Ravenna) in the 90s at a truck stop restaurant on the edge of town named East Park Restaurant. Good times.

[jiggins7919]

Honestly, the past two years of the draft are just another chapter of bad luck for our team, and here’s why:  There hasn’t been “that guy” at the QB position that basically everyone agrees is the consensus #1 pick.  They don’t happen every year, but you’d like to think that when you’re as bad as we’ve been, just ONCE there would be a guy who is the sure-fire, hands-down, #1 QB of the draft.  Last year?  No Matt Stafford, Jameis Winston, Andrew Luck, etc.  Wouldn’t it be nice if the pick was just easy and the entire world knew who to select?  A pick so obvious that even WE couldn’t screw it up?

This isn’t to say that we haven’t had chances.  We all know the many guys we passed on that look promising, so there’s no reason to bring them up.  BUT GOD FORBID there be “that guy” coming out that we could get excited about.  And you know what?  THERE ISN’T.  So what do we do?  We have to do the same thing we’ve BEEN doing, which is trust our evaluations, scout everyone on earth, and then make the pick.  We’ve been doing this for how many years?  Jesus, it makes me angry just thinking about it.  A part of me says, “Listen, EVENTUALLY we have to get it right?  Right?  RIGHT?!”

The other part of me says that we’re just completely screwed.  That whoever we bring in just has no chance because the enormous pressure will suffocate him and ruin him before his career gets started.  This time of year I’m always a sour, jaded, hopeless, bitter, and spiteful fan….and I’m tired of it.  I’d like to be at least looking FORWARD TO SOMETHING.  The only thing I have to look forward to is the draft, and what good is THAT going to do?  We’re not going to get some guys who instantly transform our team.  How often does THAT happen?  How often does it happen FOR US? 

The only way we’re not completely awful is if we get a veteran QB who has established himself as a proven winner, and who in the RIGHT MIND is going to come here?  By this time, they’ve made all the money they need, so our big checkbook means nothing to them.  They want to WIN. 

I’m sorry everyone.  I’ll get some coffee and put on my big-girl panties.  I’m just…so…tired of it.  I really love this team, and I just want to remember what fun felt like.

[TexasAg1969]

jiggins-here this should help.

 

LOL!

 

[TopDawg31]

9 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Wouldn’t it be nice if the pick was just easy and the entire world knew who to select?  A pick so obvious that even WE couldn’t screw it up?

that's how we ended up with the almost worthless Myles Garrett. I say almost because PFF has him as the SIXTH best rookie when he should have been head and shoulders above the other 5. Way to do your homework Sashi Brown.

[jiggins7919]

13 hours ago, TopDawg31 said:

that's how we ended up with the almost worthless Myles Garrett. I say almost because PFF has him as the SIXTH best rookie when he should have been head and shoulders above the other 5. Way to do your homework Sashi Brown.

Considering Myles was hurt right before the season started and then got a concussion, I'm willing to cut him some slack. In fact, I'm willing to cut him all the slack in the world. He lost Emmanuel Ogbah as his opposite assassin, and Nassib doesn't possess NEARLY the ability that Ogbah has. Additionally, Ogbah was extremely stout against the run (regardless of what some posters here believe), and Nassib isn't. Teams weren't running at Myles Garrett most of the time, they're running at Nassib. Speaking of Nassib, he cost Myles Garrett his moment. His game-changing, impact play we fans were dying for when he lined up 2 feet offsides and took Garrett's pick 6 away from him. Instead of the score being 10-6 Browns at the start of the 3rd quarter, the Bears would go on to score a TD that drive and effectively end the game. 

There were stretches of games when nobody else BUT Myles got qb pressure, and it hurt us. Even when we blitzed, no pressure. Garrett could play inside, outside, and was solid against the run and pass. Did Myles have a great rookie year? No he didn't, and he'd be the first guy to tell you that. He had too many penalties, mental errors, and was a step late a few times. But his heart was there. His interviews were thoughtful and respectful. His EFFORT was there, even when he was in pain. I love this kid, and my heart broke for him when Nassib screwed him over. 

Look back at Jadaveon Clowney's rookie year. Do you think Texan fans were upset? Heck yes they were. They had to suffer through serious injuries and some doubted that Clowney would EVER be a serious player due to the micro fracture surgery. But guess what? Clowney is now a dominant defensive player (don't be a fool and just look at stats), and Myles Garrett will be soon too (in my opinion). 

[TexasAg1969]

I suspect if you poled the team they would not consider Garrett a bad pick at all and would in fact verify they think he is their best defender overall. As the defense starts playing better, so will he.

[jiggins7919]

1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I suspect if you poled the team they would not consider Garrett a bad pick at all and would in fact verify they think he is their best defender overall. As the defense starts playing better, so will he.

That's exactly right. Listen people, I get it. We wanted the #1 pick to instantly transform our team, and it just doesn't work like that. Starting out hurt a couple days before the season started was absolutely awful for him, and it was bad luck. Losing Ogbah certainly didn't help either. What some fans also don't realize is that Myles Garrett is somebody the opposing coaches ACTUALLY have to game plan for, and have to account for every play. When is the last time we had THAT? 

I also think it took Gregg a little while to learn how to use him. As I've said many times, Myles Garrett's "super wide speed rush" was always a waste of time. It literally never worked. The tackle only had to let Myles go wide, and the qb just stepped up. Perhaps this is what Gregg wanted. He wanted Myles to have an outside contain. I don't know. What I do know is that the outside move didn't work ONE time, and was easily handled by nfl tackles. Actually, I take that back. It worked once against the Chargers, but he was held (and almost broke his foot). Now I'm sure I'm exaggerating a bit, and it worked more than once, but my point is that his outside speed rush wasn't his best tool, and maybe it's because his ankle was hurt, or maybe it was a scheme issue, but he was more effective as an inside rusher. 

[TopDawg31]

6 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I suspect if you poled the team they would not consider Garrett a bad pick at all and would in fact verify they think he is their best defender overall. As the defense starts playing better, so will he.

if that was the case then his opposition peers would have voted him into the Pro Bowl, I'm not convinced and don't use injuries as an excuse because he is injury prone.

[TexasAg1969]

17 minutes ago, TopDawg31 said:

if that was the case then his opposition peers would have voted him into the Pro Bowl, I'm not convinced and don't use injuries as an excuse because he is injury prone.

A pro-bowler off a 0-15 team? Now that would be a new NFL record.

I never said he played like a pro-bowler at all. I just said his teammates know he is their best defender. That's all I said and nothing more about injuries, pro bowls, etc. I also said I thought he would get better as the defense got better. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out either. And before the season I said Ogbah would benefit from his presence on the field more than any other player because DC would game plan for him every week. Unfortunately they just were not on the field together enough to know if I was right or not. Maybe next year we'll have a better answer along with a better coach.

[TopDawg31]

On 12/30/2017 at 2:00 PM, TexasAg1969 said:

A pro-bowler off a 0-15 team? Now that would be a new NFL record.

I never said he played like a pro-bowler at all. I just said his teammates know he is their best defender. That's all I said and nothing more about injuries, pro bowls, etc. I also said I thought he would get better as the defense got better. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out either. And before the season I said Ogbah would benefit from his presence on the field more than any other player because DC would game plan for him every week. Unfortunately they just were not on the field together enough to know if I was right or not. Maybe next year we'll have a better answer along with a better coach.

fair enough sometimes reading all these posts at once the meanings tend to blend together.

[Steve Schimpf]

Newbie here.

Opinions are like a holes everyone has one. SO I will show you mine. Are needs are QB , QB, QB. You get one by trade, free agency or draft. Been a browns fan since my dad had me watch Leroy Kelly and Paul Warfield. Showing my age but it is time to win 1 for all of us. Need to get a t-shirt going from worst to first. Since we have passed on qb's the last 2 drafts and trading down has gotten us a young team but no QB I can't believe  I am looking at dropping back to 10-12th position get another #1 pick next year and take Mason Rudolph from ok st. Reminds me of big ben keeps his eyes down field and just side steps the rush and delivers the ball. Take Barkley at #4 and if the qb rush in the draft hasn't started get WR Ridley from Alabama with the second pick.. Get Rudolph at pick 33 in the second. Our defense is fine if the offense keeps the ball and doesn't average 3 turnovers a game. Need to put some excitement back in the stands.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Steve Schimpf said:

Newbie here.

Opinions are like a holes everyone has one. SO I will show you mine. Are needs are QB , QB, QB. You get one by trade, free agency or draft. Been a browns fan since my dad had me watch Leroy Kelly and Paul Warfield. Showing my age but it is time to win 1 for all of us. Need to get a t-shirt going from worst to first. Since we have passed on qb's the last 2 drafts and trading down has gotten us a young team but no QB I can't believe  I am looking at dropping back to 10-12th position get another #1 pick next year and take Mason Rudolph from ok st. Reminds me of big ben keeps his eyes down field and just side steps the rush and delivers the ball. Take Barkley at #4 and if the qb rush in the draft hasn't started get WR Ridley from Alabama with the second pick.. Get Rudolph at pick 33 in the second. Our defense is fine if the offense keeps the ball and doesn't average 3 turnovers a game. Need to put some excitement back in the stands.

If you are right about Rudolph then he will not be there in the second round, even early like that.

[syd]

wait till next year ?

[stillmotion]

The QB that's winning the national championship. Baker Mayfield.

[Harry Buffalo]

Rosen is the most natural passer in the class but he makes poor decisions and is a head case who will likely shut down if he isn't put into an ideal situation, which we are not. Darnold has probabbly the best touch and inticilation, but he also makes dumb decisions and he doesn't take care of the football. Allen is a slightly more athletic version of Kizer so why even waste a pick on him, and Mayfield has the best accuracy, leadership, and play making ability, but he will need an offense talor made for him because of his height and who knows what will happen when he gets put into a situation where he doesn't reguarly get over 3 seconds to throw. 

At this point in time if I have to take a QB in the first, I am 100% taking them at #1 unless the Giants do want to trade up and they are very clear and honest that the guy they are taking is Rosen. And the QB I would take at that spot is at the point Baker Mayfield. 

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, stillmotion said:

The QB that's winning the national championship. Baker Mayfield.

Does Mayfield have another year of eligibility that I'm not aware of?

[Soju]

3 hours ago, Harry Buffalo said:

Rosen is the most natural passer in the class but he makes poor decisions and is a head case who will likely shut down if he isn't put into an ideal situation, which we are not. Darnold has probabbly the best touch and inticilation, but he also makes dumb decisions and he doesn't take care of the football. Allen is a slightly more athletic version of Kizer so why even waste a pick on him, and Mayfield has the best accuracy, leadership, and play making ability, but he will need an offense talor made for him because of his height and who knows what will happen when he gets put into a situation where he doesn't reguarly get over 3 seconds to throw. 

At this point in time if I have to take a QB in the first, I am 100% taking them at #1 unless the Giants do want to trade up and they are very clear and honest that the guy they are taking is Rosen. And the QB I would take at that spot is at the point Baker Mayfield. 

what could we realistically get in return if we do a trade with the Giants.  We'd obviously get their No. 2 overall ...and?

[Canton Dawg]

A must read. . .

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

A must read. . .

Well you can't judge a book by it's cover...........................................................................unless it's empty of course.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Hue knows QB development like Casey Anthony knows child care.

[The Cysko Kid]

Josh Allen is currently the qb I think is most likely.