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SkippinTurtles

Want a real QB competition? Draft 2 in the first 10 picks.

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All I heard a year ago was that this upcoming QB class was the one to wait for.  If that's the case, drafting two up top reduces the risk of missing on the next great one.  Or trade for Luck.

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Kizer, a 1st rounder, and then a 4th rounder, like Allen or the NC State kid, I'd be up for.

 

Luck?  Pass.  Bad shoulder and although we also commonly hear "there's no Andrew Luck in this draft class", he hasn't really lived up to the hype for various reasons.

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30 minutes ago, SkippinTurtles said:

All I heard a year ago was that this upcoming QB class was the one to wait for.  If that's the case, drafting two up top reduces the risk of missing on the next great one.  Or trade for Luck.

The problem with that approach is that you automatically lose one first round pick. Even if both QBs play great, nobody is going to offer you a trade for a first round pick for your substitute. 

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58 minutes ago, OconRecon said:

Luck?  Pass.  Bad shoulder and although we also commonly hear "there's no Andrew Luck in this draft class", he hasn't really lived up to the hype for various reasons.

You took the words right out my mouth.

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nah, i agree with 2 QBs the draft, but not in the first round bro, no way.

thats never been done

thats like taking aaron rodgers and tom brady with your first two fantasy football picks.

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48 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

nah, i agree with 2 QBs the draft, but not in the first round bro, no way.

thats never been done

thats like taking aaron rodgers and tom brady with your first two fantasy football picks.

As far as fantasy depending on your point system this could be good. Haha. 

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1 hour ago, stillmotion said:

nah, i agree with 2 QBs the draft, but not in the first round bro, no way.

thats never been done

thats like taking aaron rodgers and tom brady with your first two fantasy football picks.

If you actually end up landing a franchise QB who plays 15 years, who cares about the the other pick.  

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Would not be my mindset going into player evaluations, but...

  • I've heard worse ideas...
  • I've had worse ideas.

If the war room is split between two prospects, simply preferring their guy over the other with neither side "hating" the other, it could happen. Developing both simultaneously would be problematic, especially if Kizer, another developmental QB is still around, but QB coaches are cheap.

Some other need might go wanting another year, if no FA solution is found, but if QB2 came after a trade down of our second 1st-rounder... maybe not.

One thing for sure... no one could question "our emphasis of the QB position."

 

I disagree on not getting the value potential of "the other #1". If in a true competition over a couple years both look to be capable starters, then there will be a market for the one with whom you part ways.

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19 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I disagree on not getting the value potential of "the other #1". If in a true competition over a couple years both look to be capable starters, then there will be a market for the one with whom you part ways.

I may have expressed myself with the wrong words. I wanted to say that they are not going to offer you a first round pick for your backup QB. Maybe a second, a third? Yes, see Garoppolo. But the 1st round you ''invested''... You are more likely not getting that back.

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46 minutes ago, Nero said:

But the 1st round you ''invested''... You are more likely not getting that back.

Agree that if we spend a #7 overall, that we are not likely to get that exact pick back in a different draft, but the equivalent in draft value of a later 1st rounder and a 2nd or 3rd round sweetener? Not out of the question...

In addition to Jimmy G, don't forget Sam Bradford.

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8 hours ago, Nero said:

I may have expressed myself with the wrong words

:)    I can think of a guy or two that could take lessons from you.   You're a great addition to this board...you're a logical thinker.   (there's no charge for compliments)

It would, in fact, be very odd to use two high first round picks on QB's.   I'd assume that it's never been done before.

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So the issue is wasting a 1st rounder on a qb.....drafting two would solidify that.  Even two are studs who do you play?  Who will scream for the other guy?  Who will develop to turn this team around fast? Who Will we pass on who can be a good player at a different possition of need?

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4 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

We need to adress other positions with that houston pick

WR FS and RB-- any of those. Or maybe just start using Dayes the last 5 games instead of warming the bench. He's better all-around than the Crow. But then Hue is the coach so there's that.

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Why would ANYONE here think the Browns will pick the right QB at #1.  Be realistic.  Sacrificing Houston's pick on another QB makes sense.  To hell with filling out the rest of the roster with first round busts. To hell with praying for a diamond in the rough QB late in the draft.   Get two blue chip QB prospects in the top 10 and let them battle it out.  Kizer isn't going to push the #1 pick.  But another QB taken in the top 10 will.  Teams give up multiple first rounders to trade up for a QB.  Now, no trades needed and you have a back-up plan if the #1 pick flames out or gets hurt.

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5 minutes ago, SkippinTurtles said:

Why would ANYONE here think the Browns will pick the right QB at #1.  Be realistic.  Sacrificing Houston's pick on another QB makes sense.  To hell with filling out the rest of the roster with first round busts. To hell with praying for a diamond in the rough QB late in the draft.   Get two blue chip QB prospects in the top 10 and let them battle it out.  Kizer isn't going to push the #1 pick.  But another QB taken in the top 10 will.  Teams give up multiple first rounders to trade up for a QB.  Now, no trades needed and you have a back-up plan if the #1 pick flames out or gets hurt.

Hell Hue can't even whisper to one QB, so what the fk do you think he would do with two?:rolleyes:

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3 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Hell Hue can't even whisper to one QB, so what the fk do you think he would do with two?:rolleyes:

Poor QB play is unacceptable.  If Hue can't coach 'em up, then he has to go.  The next Sean McVay is out there somewhere.

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I obviously don't think we'd do this idea, but I DO think we're drafting a QB early AND we'll bring in a veteran like Tyrod Taylor, McCarron, Keenum (in my dreams), or maybe even someone like Eli Manning or Alex Smith. Right now I want Rosen, and I think after the combine and pro days are over, he'll be consensus #1. The ONLY challenger in my mind is Lamar Jackson. I can really envision a scenario where people will want him over anyone. Partly because of the success of Deshaun Watson (although they are very different players) and moreover because of Lamar's overwhelming physical abilities. Lamar improved as a passer this year, even if his stats don't reflect it. He's terrifyingly fast and can gash defenses for 15 yards without getting touched. He's got a rocket arm. He attacks the middle. And most of all, he'd be an absolute nightmare in the red zone. Just wait...I can already see the scouts salivating after Lamar runs a stupid 40 time and throws the ball into tight windows over and over at the combine. 

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11 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I obviously don't think we'd do this idea, but I DO think we're drafting a QB early AND we'll bring in a veteran like Tyrod Taylor, McCarron, Keenum (in my dreams), or maybe even someone like Eli Manning or Alex Smith. Right now I want Rosen, and I think after the combine and pro days are over, he'll be consensus #1. The ONLY challenger in my mind is Lamar Jackson. I can really envision a scenario where people will want him over anyone. Partly because of the success of Deshaun Watson (although they are very different players) and moreover because of Lamar's overwhelming physical abilities. Lamar improved as a passer this year, even if his stats don't reflect it. He's terrifyingly fast and can gash defenses for 15 yards without getting touched. He's got a rocket arm. He attacks the middle. And most of all, he'd be an absolute nightmare in the red zone. Just wait...I can already see the scouts salivating after Lamar runs a stupid 40 time and throws the ball into tight windows over and over at the combine. 

Why not take Rosen and Jackson?  Quit playing games with the QB position.  Bring in two studs and let best man win.  Having a potentially great QB with a talented young back-up is a dream scenario.  Or trot out bums for another 30 years.

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7 hours ago, LBC mike said:

So the issue is wasting a 1st rounder on a qb.....drafting two would solidify that

...so, in keeping with tradition....

 

2 hours ago, SkippinTurtles said:

Why would ANYONE here think the Browns will pick the right QB at #1.

There is that....but then, we could draft QB with EVERY pick.  Kind of like the anti-Mike Ditka.

...at this point, we're not even sure who will be doing the drafting next April.  Maybe it'll be DEE.....if she's not visiting her husband in the HaSLAMMER.

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Drafting 2 QBs early just insures one less weapon to help either one. Not a good idea when we need a prime time receiver and RB or the QB is set up for failure.

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I have been thinking about this, and the only way I see for anyone to draft two QBs high in the first round is in an attempt to "possess the market", more than trying to multiply our chances.

I don't know how many teams are willing to draft a QB in the first round, I'd say the list is pretty big because nowadays in the league we have a combination of bad QBs at the same time good QBs are coming close to their retirement. 

Simultaneously, this draft has a lot of depth in the position. 

If we pick in the #1 and #7, I don't think we will pick with the Houston pick. I bet that we will trade down, and even trading down just a few spots (not 13 like last draft) we will get some good picks, simply because there is going to be a dog fight to be in the top ten. 

BUT, if no one offers enough to be in the top ten, let's say a good team missing "just" a QB like JAX (if they don't get a reliable QB in the FA), you can think of drafting a QB that they would love to have, and trade him even during Draft weekend. If you let him play in the training camp, it lowers your chances to getting a trade because it may look like he's a bust as you have already seen him in action. And getting the trade done during the Draft weekend allows you to have an instant revenue, with more picks in the same draft (along with some for the 2019 Draft). It would be odd but these guys managed a genius trade like the Osweiler one that no one had ever seen before.

If you pick 2 first round QBs, you have to invest a lot of time untill you get some trade value for your back up QB. First of all, because you need to get your QBOTF, so you will give enough starts to one of them till you know he's your guy. I'd say that is at least 16 games. If he starts right away, you have already invested a first round pick for one season backup QB with little or no experience. You could also make him play him a few games and the other first round QB some other few games. Anyway, you'll be at least in 2020 to be in a position to get a good offer for your first round back up QB. That's a lot of time.

Getting a high pick worked with Bradford because he had already been a reliable starter both in Philadelphia and St Louis and the Vikings were desperate. It worked with Garoppolo because the Patriots have already established the QB position, with that no name from San Mateo.

If we draft two first round picks, we won't know who is our guy right away. That requires time and that's the reason I don't see it viable, so I just suggested an hypotethic scenario where I would see it done, but the depth of this draft doesn't favor it.

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Unless you want to carry 4 QBs. Draft a QB, get a Vet to start in 2018 and keep Kizer even though he has given almost no reason to hang on to him

I would love to draft 2 QBs, but if Kizer starts and doesnt get better, youre right back to playing a rookie QB.

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1 hour ago, SkippinTurtles said:

Why not take Rosen and Jackson?  Quit playing games with the QB position.  Bring in two studs and let best man win.  Having a potentially great QB with a talented young back-up is a dream scenario.  Or trot out bums for another 30 years.

 

It's a fair question, and I'll try to answer it.  I firmly believe the lack of a veteran QB hurt our team this year.  Even if the veteran guy was a "re-tread" who bounced around with multiple teams and failed to find much success, I think a guy with multiple years under his belt could've provided Kizer with some valuable mentoring and advice.  Additionally, you never know when a veteran QB will find the right system and perhaps come into his own.  Does it happen frequently?  Of course not, it almost never happens, but look at Case Keenum in Minnesota.  He found his groove and is playing extremely well.  Heck, look at Josh McCown.  He's having a pretty amazing year considering his age and track record.  My ONLY concern with a veteran who is closer to 40 than not is he isn't going to be the "long-term" solution.  So even if he wins you a couple of games, what good did he REALLY do?  I would want a veteran QB more for the advice and mentoring he could provide someone like Kizer.  "This is what I see on THIS play, " or "I've done this in the past against this defense and it works" or whatever.  Who does Kizer have to lean on right now?  Kessler?  Hogan?  Child please. 

If we bring in two rookie QB's, we'd have a QB room of three guys under the age of 22.  I'm not so sure that's a good strategy.  Furthermore, we need to use some high picks on adding WEAPONS for our QB's to throw it to, or hand it off to, right?  Look at the YouTube video titled "Every TD Scored this Week", and what you'll notice is an abundance of TD's scored in traffic, or a guy fighting his way to the goal line, or someone making a catch with a guy draped all over him.  Who on our team can make a play like that?  Who can go up and grab the ball and tap both feet in bounds?  When is the last time you saw one of our guys make a special play and get the ball into pay-dirt?  Duke Johnson is about the only guy, right?  Have we seen Coleman break one?  Has he done anything special?  The guy looks like more of a possession receiver than a game-breaker.  It devastated me when he dropped that pass because he's been our most sure-handed receiver in his short playing time, and it was also Kizer's best pass of the season at a time we desperately needed a TD.  You could just FEEL the pain our team felt.  Also, when Corey caught that amazing 44 yarder from Kizer, it appeared like he had a step and maybe could've gone all the way, but instead was easily caught.  I realize it's so difficult to catch a ball and then immediately run full speed against the sideline, but again, these are plays you see almost every week yet we can't seem to "break the long one".  

I see what you're saying.  Let's throw as many high-quality darts against the board, and see if one sticks as our QB.  But by taking a QB with both picks we're taking AWAY a potential "play-maker" on offense or defense, and we desperately need those.  We NEED guys who can strip the ball, make the pick, or break a tackle and score ALMOST as bad as we need a guy throwing it.  And how difficult would it be to evaluate three QB's that young?  How would you make sure they each get the necessary reps to learn?  It seems almost impossible, but I guess we'll see!

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4 hours ago, SkippinTurtles said:

Why would ANYONE here think the Browns will pick the right QB at #1.

Well, if we pick Rosen... :) ... but point taken.

Agreement with me is just that. It has no impact on the percentages of a single, 1st-round QB's success. Whereas taking two does double the chances of one pick being a success.

2 hours ago, SkippinTurtles said:

Why not take Rosen and Jackson?

I see this pair's styles as being too disparate. While in game you can adjust playcalling to suit a style change, player development has to suffer as there are simply not enough reps to develop two styles of play.

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