Our D

[Mark O]

6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Just stop... no one "enjoys" the losses. Just that some of us can see beyond them and take a measure of solace in that.

Your inability/unwillingness to do so is not our problem.

I think some here actually do enjoy the losses.   There isn't much growth at 1-26 and staring 1-31 in the face.  That's an unprecedented amount of losing.    Trusting the process is one thing and I was in support of it until, from what I can see, the team isn't any better this year than last year.   Some parts are better...other parts are worse and some just weren't very good to begin with in either season.   The "trust the process" only works when there's improvement.  So far that process has the team right back at 0-11 just like last season. 

[wargograw]

13 hours ago, Mark O said:

And yet you want to stay the course with the guys who have led us to 1-26.  Who's the next Belichik?   I don't know...but I can be pretty damn sure he ain't on this staff right now.

They also replaced the guy that some here are telling me is the greatest defensive coach ever and we can't afford to fire a lousy HC because we might lose the DC that the Rams replaced. 

By my logic...a team could win every game 51-48 and no one would care how bad the defense was...you know why?   We'd be 11-0 dipshit and in first place and on our way to home field throughout the playoffs.  

I'm pretty sure he's not either. We could win a Super Bowl and still be pretty sure the next Belichick is not on our staff. Who cares?

 

Find me ONE person here that has said Greg Williams is better than Wade Phillips? I'll wait. 

 

The point completely went over your head. 

[flyingfooldoug]

16 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

 

lol... Look back at their prior 12 years of futility, languishing below .500, only achieving it twice offset by twice dipping to 2-14 over that span and get back to me.

You mean the years right after they won a SB? Right? Nuff said

[jiggins7919]

On 11/28/2017 at 12:26 AM, Unsympathetic said:

The D wasn't good against the run because that's the result of the loss of Ogbah.  He can't step up.. he broke his foot.

Ogbah loss hurt WAY more than people thought. Really goes to show how good a season he was having. 

[TexasAg1969]

41 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Ogbah loss hurt WAY more than people thought. Really goes to show how good a season he was having. 

Don't underestimate the importance of depth with Meder either. Makes a difference late in games. Collins goes without saying.

[Tour2ma]

14 hours ago, Mark O said:

... from what I can see, the team isn't any better this year than last year.   Some parts are better...other parts are worse and some just weren't very good to begin with in either season.   The "trust the process" only works when there's improvement.  So far that process has the team right back at 0-11 just like last season. 

Again with the ultra-macro W/L... *sighs* ... With that as a yardstick I'm not sure what your basis is for "some parts better/worse". Here's my games within the game take...

• QB is worse. WR has been worse... stay tuned. RB same. TE same-ish. OL? Better... much better.
• DL is better. LB is better. CBs are better. Safeties? Again, same-ish.
• STs? Same to a little better by virtue of kick off touchbacks.

The determining issue has been QB play.... with a non-trivial assist from the WR corps.

3 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

You mean the years right after they won a SB? Right? Nuff said

lol... so you've shifted from a one-year turnaround to a fan-sustaining 12-yo achievement? And it only took a couple days to come up with the latter.

I'm pretty sure the rostered players in common to the SB team and this years edition can be counted on one hand... with at least a "fill-in-the-blank" finger left over.

Nice try...

[RoyceRolls]

On 11/27/2017 at 6:53 AM, Nero said:

This defense goes on and off way too many times. 

This sunday played a terrible game, but I also think it is because it lacks depth. We can't be decent if someone is injured. Ogbah, Collins and Meder missed this game. 

I think we will find out just how valuable Ogbah has been for this defense. When a young defense that lacks depth loses the NFLs best DE against the run it’s gonna hurt. 

[RoyceRolls]

On 11/27/2017 at 9:58 AM, D Bone said:

Yep, and that would fall under No Schit Sherlock......  

 

Well I’m glad you think calling you out is a no brainer scenario. 

 

[Mark O]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Again with the ultra-macro W/L... *sighs* ... With that as a yardstick I'm not sure what your basis is for "some parts better/worse". Here's my games within the game take...

• QB is worse. WR has been worse... stay tuned. RB same. TE same-ish. OL? Better... much better.
• DL is better. LB is better. CBs are better. Safeties? Again, same-ish.
• STs? Same to a little better by virtue of kick off touchbacks.

 

I'd like to see some wins....that's the ultimate mark of improvement.   Winning a few games.    OL is better.   LB I don't think they're any better.  McCourty is an upgrade over Haden (and whoever is replacement was since he was hurt all the time) I'm not sure we have safeties on the team. 

ST is worse because Gonzalez can't make a FG or XP.  Seems like that is an important job for the kicker.  Colquitt is good but he was good last year too. 

A better QB and a better HC would have this team winning a few games.   Can Hue....leave the FO alone and find a QB, a RB and a WR and hope that Gordon and Coleman can stay on the field. 

[Clevfan4life]

Leave the FO alone? The guys that "most likely" were the culprits for getting rid of mccown? Get right the fuk out mark. I almost guarantee hue told them kizer will need dev time, so the FO gave him brick osweiler as the stop gap cause they didnt want to pay an aging vet like mccown. 

If im wrong about that, and it was hues call to ditch mccown knowing he has a raw qb who's own college coach publically said needs anither year in college........yeah fire hue.

ive stated multiple times all parties involved in ditching a vet qb who publically stated he'd like nothing more than to mentor a young qb, those people needed to be scrubbed out like that mineral deposit that builds at the bottom of ur shytter. We'll never know now what could have been had kizer backed up mccown this year. 

[Tour2ma]

McC was offered a coaching position... a position from which mentoring is still allowed.

He still wanted to play, to start. He went where he could do that.

[Mark O]

5 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Leave the FO alone? The guys that "most likely" were the culprits for getting rid of mccown? Get right the fuk out mark. I almost guarantee hue told them kizer will need dev time, so the FO gave him brick osweiler as the stop gap cause they didnt want to pay an aging vet like mccown. 

If im wrong about that, and it was hues call to ditch mccown knowing he has a raw qb who's own college coach publically said needs anither year in college........yeah fire hue.

ive stated multiple times all parties involved in ditching a vet qb who publically stated he'd like nothing more than to mentor a young qb, those people needed to be scrubbed out like that mineral deposit that builds at the bottom of ur shytter. We'll never know now what could have been had kizer backed up mccown this year. 

I don't believe in completely cleaning house but if this team goes 1-15 or worse this year, someone has to take the fall.  It's an unprecedented level of losing that can't keep everyone employed.   Either the front office has to go or the HC and from where I sit....the HC also isn't getting any better at his job than he was last year.  Same bizarre playcalling, zero clock management skills, etc etc.    And as Tour pointed out...McCown was offered a coaching position, he still wanted to play so we parted ways.   Who after watching him play last year would've believed that he could stay healthy for 11 straight games?   Anyone who says they saw that coming is lying.

[Clevfan4life]

He didnt need to play this whole season, just start. And when kizer faulted later in the season he could come in and out as needed. And if u go back to the offseason u see alot of us were "very" concerned about the loss of mccown..myself included. When we got osweiler i was like ok, that might be the stopgap we need but theres "concerns". It took like 2 games into preseason for those fears to be validated.

did i predict he would go to the jets and be a top 10 qb? No. But i knew with a project like kizer coming in it was "crucial" to have a vet ready to step in. That the FO allowed this team to go into the season with kizer, kessler and hogan.....is grounds for dismissal. 

[Clevfan4life]

If huevwas cool with that situation, he should be gone. But if he wanted to keep mccown but the FO was like nahhh we made a sweet deal for brock osweiler......than cmon, this bullshyt this season is on the FO

[Mark O]

1 minute ago, Clevfan4life said:

 

did i predict he would go to the jets and be a top 10 qb? No. But i knew with a project like kizer coming in it was "crucial" to have a vet ready to step in. That the FO allowed this team to go into the season with kizer, kessler and hogan.....is grounds for dismissal. 

Careful...you'll lose your place in Tour's "trust the process" support group.  

BTW....Tour...Thanks so much for the flag!! 

[Clevfan4life]

5 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Careful...you'll lose your place in Tour's "trust the process" support group.  

BTW....Tour...Thanks so much for the flag!! 

I trust the process. But canning a vet like mccown when u've got a project coming in......i mean maybe hue told em kesslers good to go, i dont know. That shyt needs fleshed out and if i was jimmy that would be my biggest question. Oh and who brought britt in.....they have to go

[Mark O]

3 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

I trust the process. But canning a vet like mccown when u've got a project coming in......i mean maybe hue told em kesslers good to go, i dont know. That shyt needs fleshed out and if i was jimmy that would be my biggest question. Oh and who brought britt in.....they have to go

So you don't trust the process.   Hue likes Kessler.  The FO brought in Britt and probably it was a joint decision between the FO and Hue about McCown.    Can't trust him to stay healthy beyond one drive in game one so let's get him here as a coach.  McCown wants to try and still play (can't blame him...playing days end quickly) so he goes elsewhere.  It's hard to blame anyone in that scenario.   McCown has been typically so fragile....keeping him to play QB while Kizer sits could last about 1 quarter of one game.

[miktoxic]

the OL is Sheet. our run game is Sheet. 

i could MAYBE name 5 guys that would make it onto another team's starting squad and i'd have to think about it quite a lot (like i give a Shmuck.............BOYCOTT!!!!)

[Clevfan4life]

19 minutes ago, Mark O said:

keeping him to play QB while Kizer sits could last about 1 quarter of one game.

A fair concern but at the same time couldnt be helped. U simply cannot hand the reigns of a franchise to a oroject like kizer. No matter how dreamy his throws look.....and they do look dreamy, love that kids arm. But is he perma damaged now? And what now of next year? Id live me some rosen but id rather see mcciwn cone back and rosen sit even if he is mire nfl ready than kizer was. How many times does clev have to sit through a fresh noob being thrown in on day 1? 

[Mark O]

Just now, Clevfan4life said:

A fair concern but at the same time couldnt be helped. U simply cannot hand the reigns of a franchise to a oroject like kizer. No matter how dreamy his throws look.....and they do look dreamy, love that kids arm. But is he perma damaged now? And what now of next year? Id live me some rosen but id rather see mcciwn cone back and rosen sit even if he is mire nfl ready than kizer was. How many times does clev have to sit through a fresh noob being thrown in on day 1? 

Getting thrown in day 1 worked out pretty well for the Eagles and the guy some here post about over and over and over and over and over and over and over.    No question, Kizer was not ready to be thrown in day 1 but he was the best we had at that time and he's still the best we have.   

Who knows what next year will bring.

[Clevfan4life]

Just now, Mark O said:

Getting thrown in day 1 worked out pretty well for the Eagles 

Was that the cleveland eagles?

[Mark O]

5 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Was that the cleveland eagles?

In hindsight.....I wish we had the guy they had.  Despite Carl Hogan stalker(PoG) telling us the Eagles suck.

[Clevfan4life]

10 minutes ago, Mark O said:

In hindsight.....I wish we had the guy they had.  Despite Carl Hogan stalker(PoG) telling us the Eagles suck.

But since he wouldnt have come to the cleveland eagles but the cleveland BROWNS......he would either be 2nd or 3rd on the drpth charge or not on the team at all. Srsly he would have gone on ir last year

[Dutch Oven]

8 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Leave the FO alone? The guys that "most likely" were the culprits for getting rid of mccown? Get right the fuk out mark. I almost guarantee hue told them kizer will need dev time, so the FO gave him brick osweiler as the stop gap cause they didnt want to pay an aging vet like mccown. 

If im wrong about that, and it was hues call to ditch mccown knowing he has a raw qb who's own college coach publically said needs anither year in college........yeah fire hue.

ive stated multiple times all parties involved in ditching a vet qb who publically stated he'd like nothing more than to mentor a young qb, those people needed to be scrubbed out like that mineral deposit that builds at the bottom of ur shytter. We'll never know now what could have been had kizer backed up mccown this year. 

I feel confident in saying that the Browns organization has made one mistake after another over the last two seasons concerning the QB position. It's almost impressive in a sadistic way.

[Clevfan4life]

13 hours ago, RoyceRolls said:

I think we will find out just how valuable Ogbah has been for this defense. When a young defense that lacks depth loses the NFLs best DE against the run it’s gonna hurt. 

He's one of the nfl's best run stoppers? 

1) i know this is bs without even looking it up

2) i did anyway, and pff ranks him as 70-72. Thats avg and quite frankly i was surprised he even got that

[Nero]

The problem with the QB position is that McCown wanted to play, so he left for the Jets and we had Osweiler as a 'veteran'. I know Oswiler sucks, but we have paid him A LOT and we were in a position to ask him to be a veteran QB, not a starter for the whole season. It's  one thing to play behind Texans' Oline and be a contender and another thing starting for the Browns a few games,  isn't it? Heck, our line is better than last year Texans'. Kessler was good last year, so maybe he's starting the season.

We enter in the training camp with 4 QBs: Kessler as 1st string, 2nd Osweiler, and I'd say that Kizer was 3rd in front of Hogan. 

Kessler sucks SO BAD that ends as 3rd String, and Osweiler doesn't look any good either. Then, we have a problem, because the FA is long gone, and unless you want to get Kaepernick or unretire Cutler (idk if the Dolphins already signed him in preseason, when did Tannehill get injured?) there are few attractive QB free agents. The teams have already they rosters so trades even for backups (I'm thinking of Moore or Keenum, AJ I believe became an option when the Bengals saw that the Browns were not a threat this year) are difficult to get without overpaying a lot.

Our plan A, who was Kessler, knew the system and looked good enough last year, stepped down in his game. The few times he has played this year have proved it - he has been horrendous. 

Our plan B, "thanks for the second round" Osweiler is not worth a damn.

Plan C, Kizer looks very good in the preseason (and I know that preseason games don't count, but at some point they are the only way to evaluate your QBs). 

I strongly believe that it's Hue who decides to go for the trio we have now. He is a QB guru, remember? He'll take back Kessler's level, and teach Kizer how to be a great QB. I bet that he was offered some solutions in August before the season began, but the options were by the time so poor that he preferred to get rid of Osweiler, who proved to be way worse than expected and use the QBs he already knew (Kessler and Hogan) and Kizer.

To sum up, I think all the plan went down the toilet because Kessler has regressed a lot and Osweiler is not worth even starting him a few games. By the time they realized this, it was too late.

[Clevfan4life]

Remember when all of us went, ossweiler? Really?

most of us kind of predicted it. I didnt think he'd be "that" bad. And even back in denver they're like well lets see if that ghoolie guy from clev is right ahh fuk he's not lynch sux too. But that ossweiler trade was pure analytics FO masturbatory circle jerking. Aww we really got over on those bronco fgts!!. Sigh

the FO whiffed badly on ossweiler and whiffed badly on mccowns value. I cant think of a single person here that was ecpressing boundless optimism at the thought of ossweiler starting the season with a fresh noobinz in kizer behind him or some soon to be journeymen noodle arm game manager. Almost everyone saw this coming to some extent. 

[flyingfooldoug]

18 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Again with the ultra-macro W/L... *sighs* ... With that as a yardstick I'm not sure what your basis is for "some parts better/worse". Here's my games within the game take...

• QB is worse. WR has been worse... stay tuned. RB same. TE same-ish. OL? Better... much better.
• DL is better. LB is better. CBs are better. Safeties? Again, same-ish.
• STs? Same to a little better by virtue of kick off touchbacks.

The determining issue has been QB play.... with a non-trivial assist from the WR corps.

lol... so you've shifted from a one-year turnaround to a fan-sustaining 12-yo achievement? And it only took a couple days to come up with the latter.

I'm pretty sure the rostered players in common to the SB team and this years edition can be counted on one hand... with at least a "fill-in-the-blank" finger left over.

Nice try...

They turned it around in less than half a century. Can you say that about the browns? We're about the one fifth century point now. 

[Nero]

2 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Remember when all of us went, ossweiler? Really?

most of us kind of predicted it. I didnt think he'd be "that" bad. And even back in denver they're like well lets see if that ghoolie guy from clev is right ahh fuk he's not lynch sux too. But that ossweiler trade was pure analytics FO masturbatory circle jerking. Aww we really got over on those bronco fgts!!. Sigh

the FO whiffed badly on ossweiler and whiffed badly on mccowns value. I cant think of a single person here that was ecpressing boundless optimism at the thought of ossweiler starting the season with a fresh noobinz in kizer behind him or some soon to be journeymen noodle arm game manager. Almost everyone saw this coming to some extent. 

If you read my post, the thing is that neither Osweiler or Kizer had to start. Kessler was the one supposed to start. 

And the Osweiler trade was brilliant. Getting a second round pick for some cap space that you're not going to use anyway? All the league thought it was brilliant. And what you do, at least, if you're going to eat up his contract, is to prove him and see what you got.

[Tour2ma]

5 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

They turned it around in less than half a century. Can you say that about the browns? We're about the one fifth century point now. 

That 12 years and 20 years are both less than half a century?