Should we draft a quarterback 1st overall?

[calfoxwc]

Should we draft a quarterback 1st overall?

calfoxwc replied to Louisville Slugger's topic in THE BROWNS BOARD

...and worse thanMayfield , and I wouldn't draftMayfield either. Character, love for the game, intangibles matter. and Rosen fails the grade.

[calfoxwc]

Should we draft a quarterback 1st overall?

calfoxwc replied to Louisville Slugger's topic in THE BROWNS BOARD

CampMayfield

calfoxwc replied to Adoug319's topic in THE BROWNS BOARD
...just saw thatMayfield has been stripped of his captionship of the team, and won't start the next game. Who knows, maybe he gets into the pros and does great, and grows up into a classy qb in the NFL. or not. The Browns already have another egg on their face with the JM experiment.....

CampMayfield

calfoxwc replied to Adoug319's topic in THE BROWNS BOARD
...Mayfield is popular bigtime like JM. He parties like JM. Wins games and has great stats like JM. And his behavior is sometimes very, very erratic. I personally don't want a qb that everybody hates, a qb that will eventually, maybe, encourage kids in sports to act out stupidly, etc....

Darnold vs rosen

calfoxwc replied to Clevfan4life's topic in THE BROWNS BOARD
...Rosen andmayfield can have a johnny manziel actlike contest...mayfield is ahead because of the trouble with booze.

    November 19 99 replies

CampMayfield

calfoxwc replied to Adoug319's topic in THE BROWNS BOARD
...As far as your lovefest withMayfield 's stats - take off your blinders.Mayfield has quite a cast of very good or excellent players around him. And,Mayfield didn't just get a DUI. He also left the scene of an accident, a FELONY. https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-baker-m...

    November 19 168 replies

CampMayfield

calfoxwc replied to Adoug319's topic in THE BROWNS BOARD
...andMayfield . He's very talented, but six foot tall, spread offense, and having faced a felony and misdemeanors after driving drunk at 3 AM in the morning, and now the crotch grabbing... no thanks. I think he's a rich alcoholic JM in the pros.Allen looks a lot better to me all the time.

    November 19 168 replies
        1

[Dutch Oven]

You've produced five instances of you talking about Mayfield, four of which were on the same thread. Trust me, the amount of pro-Allen/anti-Rosen posts DWARF these handful of Mayfield posts. You've pretty much become PoG-like in your obsession with posting about your undying love of Allen, and your hatred of Rosen.

And like I've said before, and in fact BEFORE you started your tireless ripping of Rosen, his personality has been a topic of conversation for a while. In fact, I read something this summer about Rosen being compared personality-wise to Manziel. Trust me, this concerns me too...

On-the-field, though, Rosen is laughably ahead of Allen.

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Clevfan4life said:

Rosen is an outspoken trump critic? Thats news to me, anyone have a link? If its true, u wonder why he diesnt get along with his teammates

http://www.ocregister.com/2016/04/11/ucla-quarterback-josh-rosen-golfs-at-donald-trumps-golf-course-wearing-anti-trump-hat/

I honestly get the impression that Rosen is very similar to Indians pitcher Trevor Bauer (despite polar opposite political views) - another kid from UCLA who is very opinionated, has a reputation as "difficult to coach", and does not seem to be one of those players super popular in the clubhouse at times.

[hoorta]

4 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

You've produced five instances of you talking about Mayfield, four of which were on the same thread. Trust me, the amount of pro-Allen/anti-Rosen posts DWARF these handful of Mayfield posts. You've pretty much become PoG-like in your obsession with posting about your undying love of Allen, and your hatred of Rosen.

And like I've said before, and in fact BEFORE you started your tireless ripping of Rosen, his personality has been a topic of conversation for a while. In fact, I read something this summer about Rosen being compared personality-wise to Manziel. Trust me, this concerns me too...

On-the-field, though, Rosen is laughably ahead of Allen.

Yeah- is some of the off field background noise about Rosen or Mayfield a concern? Of course. The Browns (or any other team that thinks they have a shot at either) are going to do due diligence. Plenty of research, background checks, talking to teammates, coaches, etc. I've said it before too- interviews . 

Hell's Bells, I posted it in the Gordon thread, if we're talking character and "intangibles" assuming due diligence- there's absolutely no way any NFL team would have drafted Josh- even as a supplemental 7th round pick. LOL, Heckert might have been high when he drafted him.  

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, hoorta said:

Yeah- is some of the off field background noise about Rosen or Mayfield a concern? Of course. The Browns (or any other team that thinks they have a shot at either) are going to do due diligence. Plenty of research, background checks, talking to teammates, coaches, etc. I've said it before too- interviews . 

Hell's Bells, I posted it in the Gordon thread, if we're talking character and "intangibles" assuming due diligence- there's absolutely no way any NFL team would have drafted Josh- even as a supplemental 7th round pick. LOL, Heckert might have been high when he drafted him.  

Didn't Heckert a few years ago get popped for a DUI? Hmmmm...

[hoorta]

1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

Didn't Heckert a few years ago get popped for a DUI? Hmmmm...

Yes he did...   

[PoeticG]

I like Baker Mayfield, brings a lot of energy. 

I would take Barkley #1 and maybe take Mayfield(if their isn't a WR or CB that is a gamechanger) with Houston's pick. 

I would start Hogan, let Kizer back him up while grooming Mayfield or a year.

Then If he takes the coaching and excels he would go to the #2 and challenge Hogan the following year for the start. 

 

[hoorta]

Speaking of due diligence- Manziel had more obvious red flags than either Rosen or Mayfield, and what happened? We drafted him anyway. Hated the pick. There's a certain team down on the Ohio River that could care less about intangibles- as long as they know how to play football. Bar room brawlers, guys knocking women unconscious- doesn't matter. 

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

I like Baker Mayfield, brings a lot of energy. 

I would take Barkley #1 and maybe take Mayfield(if their isn't a WR or CB that is a gamechanger) with Houston's pick. 

I would start Hogan, let Kizer back him up while grooming Mayfield or a year.

Then If he takes the coaching and excels he would go to the #2 and challenge Hogan the following year for the start. 

 

You would use a top 10 overall pick on a QB when you've been telling us the Browns already have a franchise QB on their roster in Kevin Hogan?

Even for you, this is epic troll-work.

[hoorta]

2 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

I like Baker Mayfield, brings a lot of energy. 

I would take Barkley #1 and maybe take Mayfield(if their isn't a WR or CB that is a gamechanger) with Houston's pick. 

I would start Hogan, let Kizer back him up while grooming Mayfield or a year.

Then If he takes the coaching and excels he would go to the #2 and challenge Hogan the following year for the start. 

 

I could live with that PO (except the Hogan part). Depends where Houston's pick winds up at.  The Giants, Broncos, and Jets will all be in the market for aQB. 

I think Tour's scenario is far more realistic. McCarron, Kizer, and (Mayfield or Rosen.)

[Dutch Oven]

8 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Speaking of due diligence- Manziel had more obvious red flags than either Rosen or Mayfield, and what happened? We drafted him anyway. Hated the pick. There's a certain team down on the Ohio River that could care less about intangibles- as long as they know how to play football. Bar room brawlers, guysknocking women unconsious- doesn't matter. 

Manziel's dad went on record - BEFORE THE DRAFT - and told the world that his son "drinks to self-medicate".

I would be curious to know who on this board were banging the "DRAFT JOHNNY FOOTBALL!" drum.

[PoeticG]

Hue is going to let the Bosaberg sink the Kitanic on Sunday. Then Hogan is going to hit Gordon for a TD and our first win! Can't wait to see this happen again! 

[PoeticG]

1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

Manziel's dad went on record - BEFORE THE DRAFT - and told the world that his son "drinks to self-medicate".

I would be curious to know who on this board were banging the "DRAFT JOHNNY FOOTBALL!" drum.

Maybe if you were here then you would know... but you just recently "rode in" on your drunk horse that you keep beating. 

[hoorta]

1 minute ago, PoeticG said:

Hue is going to let the Bosaberg sink the Kitanic on Sunday. Then Hogan is going to hit Gordon for a TD and our first win! Can't wait to see this happen again! 

I think you're right about Kizer getting pummelled. If it makes you feel any better, in his interview Hue was "vague" on who the backup would be against the Chargers. FWIW, he got called out to his face by a reporter mentioning that except for his disaster against the Texans, Hogan has seriously outperformed Kessler. 

[Dutch Oven]

6 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Maybe if you were here then you would know... but you just recently "rode in" on your drunk horse that you keep beating. 

Yep, you got me, my start date on here is later than yours.

That's literally the only thing you have. Congrats.

[mjp28]

29 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Manziel's dad went on record - BEFORE THE DRAFT - and told the world that his son "drinks to self-medicate".

I would be curious to know who on this board were banging the "DRAFT JOHNNY FOOTBALL!" drum.

Drinks to self medicate......sounds like my early college days. 

And Johnny football, played professional football for beer money.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Meanwhile draft a QB #1, why? Well four plus months to ponder that one.

[Nero]

For me, it is great that the only thing that is 'keeping us' from being so enthusiast with some of this year prospects is character problems.

I mean, when you have very attractive tangibles that you can check on tape, and they convince you early that someone is going to be a great QB, then yoi have plenty of time to do some research in those intangibles. We're starting December, by April the front office will have a complete profile of each prospect. The less things you have to check for (in this case character) the more accurate you can be choosing.

And I wouldn't forget how many genius pricks are out there at the peak of their career in almost any area even leading teams.

[The Gipper]

14 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

  A. I only found out about that this morning when I got a link .

B. The reports are that rosen IS world class prick.

C. You are stupid - I have complained about Mayfield's lack of character bigtime on this board. 

D. Have a nice day.

oh, btw -

https://sportsnaut.com/2017/08/nfl-scout-josh-rosen-another-version-colin-kaepernick/

NFL scout: Josh Rosen ‘another version of Colin Kaepernick’

 

Kaepernick took his team to the Super Bowl once and to the NFC title game another time.   I would take that in Rosen.

[The Gipper]

13 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yeah- is some of the off field background noise about Rosen or Mayfield a concern? Of course. The Browns (or any other team that thinks they have a shot at either) are going to do due diligence. Plenty of research, background checks, talking to teammates, coaches, etc. I've said it before too- interviews . 

Hell's Bells, I posted it in the Gordon thread, if we're talking character and "intangibles" assuming due diligence- there's absolutely no way any NFL team would have drafted Josh- even as a supplemental 7th round pick. LOL, Heckert might have been high when he drafted him.  

Why do we need to be arguing over  Rosen or Mayfield or Allen?    When Mason Rudolph will likely, when all things come around to it, be considered the primary candidate to be taken #1.

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Why do we need to be arguing over  Rosen or Mayfield or Allen?    When Mason Rudolph will likely, when all things come around to it, be considered the primary candidate to be taken #1.

Because it's more likely that he won't be?

1. Cleveland Browns

Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA. OK, so the Browns aren't particularly "strong" at the quarterback position, but they did just pick DeShone Kizer in Round 2 in 2017, and he's shown some signs of improvement over the past two weeks... with Corey Coleman back in the lineup, imagine that. Regardless of that, the Browns grab Rosen here, arguably one of the most fundamentally sound quarterback prospects to enter the league over the past two seasons. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-giants-start-new-era-at-quarterback-with-usc-star-sam-darnold/

 

FYI... in this mock Darnold goes at #3 to NYG and Rudolph at 31 to NE. Only three QBs mocked in Round One.

[The Gipper]

3 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Because it's more likely that he won't be?

1. Cleveland Browns

Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA. OK, so the Browns aren't particularly "strong" at the quarterback position, but they did just pick DeShone Kizer in Round 2 in 2017, and he's shown some signs of improvement over the past two weeks... with Corey Coleman back in the lineup, imagine that. Regardless of that, the Browns grab Rosen here, arguably one of the most fundamentally sound quarterback prospects to enter the league over the past two seasons. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-giants-start-new-era-at-quarterback-with-usc-star-sam-darnold/

 

FYI... in this mock Darnold goes at #3 to NYG and Rudolph at 31 to NE. Only three QBs mocked in Round One.

Its early yet.   I think Wentz was mocked to go like 31....until he began working out and getting more scrutiny.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Its early yet.   I think Wentz was mocked to go like 31....until he began working out and getting more scrutiny.

It's not like Rudolph played for North Dakota State Gip. He's been getting plenty of scouting scrutiny already.

[Tour2ma]

As for Rosen the teammate...

This was written going into the 2017 season by an Aggie 247 contributor.

UCLA teammates and coaches rally around QB Josh Rosen

UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen stirs controversy with his public comments but his teammates have a different opinion of him as a teammate and player

• Jeff Tarpley - Aug 28, 5:49 PM

UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen received the nickname "Chosen" from his friends after a Sports Illustrated spread in 2014. However, although Rosen was seemingly "chosen" to be face of UCLA football, it hasn't worked out as planned. As Thuc Nhi Nguyen writes in the Orange County Register:

Rosen was chosen as the face of UCLA for his on-field talent and his off-field intellect. In the process, his greatest gift, his ever-questioning mind, has also become his great curse.

His honest answers stoke Internet media fires. His habit to ask “why” can be seen as challenging or arrogant. He makes more headlines for his words than his play now, especially after his sophomore season was derailed with a shoulder injury.

Rosen's coach, offensive coordinator Jedd Fisch, read things about Rosen that turned out to be less than accurate.

“I’ve learned that he’s extremely hard working,” the well-traveled 40-year-old assistant said. “That he is extremely diligent. That the game is extremely important to him. That his talent level, while special, also has a lot to do with how much he works at it. … I’ve also learned that he can be coached really hard.”

That’s the Rosen the Bruins know. The one who stays after practice to throw extra routes to any receiver who asks. The one who led every player-run practice this summer, 25 in all. The one who buys his offensive linemen dinner every week and orders them personalized gold necklaces with their last names and jersey numbers.

In fact, his teammates defended him after less than flattering articles in various publications.

“I don’t know how people can jump to that conclusion; we all love Josh,” center Scott Quessenberry said. “He comes out every day and he competes hard.”

“A lot of people don’t have that voice but a lot of us are thinking the things he says,” said safety Jaleel Wadood, who also played with Rosen at St. John Bosco. “Some of us don’t say it because they don’t have that platform like he does.”

It's Rosen's last chance to live up to expectations and be the player that his teammates tell people he is. That chance starts on September 3 versus the Aggies.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

It's not like Rudolph played for North Dakota State Gip. He's been getting plenty of scouting scrutiny already.

Yes...he has....and with that at various times he has been rated  the #1 best overall prospect out there....and many have him in the Top Ten. 

Point is, there is a lot of variance of opinion on him and on all these guys.  

Some say Rosen is #1....others don't have him as a first rounder.   Same with Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, all these guys.

There is clearly NO consensus...at all...about these guys.

[hoorta]

26 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Yes...he has....and with that at various times he has been rated  the #1 best overall prospect out there....and many have him in the Top Ten. 

Point is, there is a lot of variance of opinion on him and on all these guys.  

Some say Rosen is #1....others don't have him as a first rounder.   Same with Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, all these guys.

There is clearly NO consensus...at all...about these guys.

It's early yet. We all know a lot of mock drafts had Trubisky as a second rounder at best- and we all know where he went. Only takes one team to fall in love with a guy. Walter Football likes my take apparently .   Great college qb who may struggle in the Pros....  Sure, CBS has him as the best prospect, but I'll bet no one else does....  

 11/30/17: Rudolph is a love/hate prospect in the scouting community. One team source likes Rudolph, but many others are skeptics. A general manager of a playoff team told me they had Rudolph graded on the third day of the 2018 NFL Draft. Another NFC general manager said they thought Rudolph could go on Day 2. An AFC college scouting director of a playoff team said they were giving Rudolph a fifth-round grade. One area scout said that they were really concerned with how Rudolph struggles throwing into tight windows, because he won't have receivers running wide open like they have been for him at Oklahoma State. Given the big discrepancy, Rudolph could go in the early rounds of the 2018 NFL Draft, because it only takes one team to fall in love. Many teams don't like him, however, and have his grade low. 

Rudolph has nice size with an arm to deliver the ball downfield. He throws nice touch passes and locates passes well. However, Rudolph is going to need a lot of work on his field vision for the NFL. He rarely works beyond his primary read and constantly stares down his first option. In terms of his longer-term development, Rudolph was wise to return for his senior season. He should focus on improving his field vision to work through progressions before going pro. Along with improving his footwork, working on being under center, and learning how to call NFL plays.

Rudolph will need development as a pro. He will have to work on his shaky accuracy and field vision, and get used to playing under center and calling plays in the huddle. Rudolph is also not very athletic, though he has good size with average arm strength. Going through progressions and reading the field are problems for Rudolph, and he has to improve there for the NFL. His anticipation is terrible, too, and that will have to improve for the pros, or he could be taking a lot of sacks from holding onto the ball too long. 

Rudolph didn't have his typical performance when TCU dropped Oklahoma State. He completed 22-of-41 for 398 yards with two touchdowns and two interceptions against the Horned Frogs. Previously this season, Rudolph lit up Tulsa, South Alabama and Pittsburgh. Rudolph didn't play well against Texas and had a plethora of interceptions dropped versus West Virginia. 

Rudolph has completed 65 percent of his passes this season for 4,553 yards with 35 touchdowns and nine interceptions.

The top-four draft-eligible quarterback prospects for the 2018 NFL Draft are USC's Sam Darnold, Louisville's Lamar Jackson, Wyoming's Josh Allen and Rosen.

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2018QB.php#HlT7j4wWV78BAj6v.99

[The Gipper]

Last week Rudolph was #1 overall....this week #12.  Next week?

2018 TOP NFL DRAFT PROSPECTS - QUARTERBACK
RK	PLAYER	POS	POS RK	SCHOOL	CLASS	HT	WT
8	Lamar Jackson	QB	5	Louisville	Jr	6-3	200
12	Mason Rudolph	QB	2	Oklahoma State	Sr	6-5	230
17	Josh Rosen	QB	3	UCLA	Jr	6-4	220
22	Sam Darnold	QB	1	Southern California	Soph	6-4	225
39	Baker Mayfield	QB	8	Oklahoma	Sr	6-1	218
67	Ryan Finley	QB	0	NC State	Jr	6-4	205

 

 

  

 

 

 

[The Gipper]

This one  Draftek...has Rudolph #2 overall....Darnold 1.   Mayfield not in first round:

Rk	Chg	Player	College	P1	Ht	Wt	P2	Dif	BIO	SCT
1	--	Sam Darnold	USC	QB	6'4"	225			BIO	--
2	--	Mason Rudolph	Oklahoma State	QB	6'4"	235			BIO	--
3	+5	Minkah Fitzpatrick	Alabama	S	6'2"	216			BIO	--
4	+1	Saquon Barkley	Penn State	RBF	5'11"	223			BIO	--
5	+1	Harold Landry	Boston College	EDGE	6'3"	250	OLB	-2	BIO	--
6	-3	Derwin James	Florida State	S	6'2"	213			BIO	--
7	-3	Josh Rosen	UCLA	QB	6'3"	210			BIO	--
8	-1	Christian Wilkins	Clemson	DL3T	6'3"	310			BIO	--
9	+16	Bradley Chubb	NC State	EDGE	6'3"	273	OLB	0	BIO	--
10	-1	Mike McGlinchey	Notre Dame	OT	6'7"	310			BIO	--
11	+103	Brian O'Neill	Pittsburgh	OT	6'6"	305			BIO	--
12	-2	Arden Key	LSU	EDGE	6'6"	231	OLB	-6	BIO	--
13	-1	Derrius Guice	LSU	RBF	5'11"	212			BIO	--
14	+107	Bryce Love	Stanford	RBF	5'10"	196			BIO	--
15	+48	Courtland Sutton	SMU	WRF	6'4"	225			BIO	--
16	+6	Derrick Nnadi	Florida State	DL3T	6'1"	303			BIO	--
17	+1	James Washington	Oklahoma State	WRF	6'0"	205			BIO	--
18	+3	Sam Hubbard	Ohio State	EDGE	6'5"	266	OLB	-3	BIO	--
19	-2	Micah Kiser	Virginia	ILB	6'2"	240			BIO	--
20	+52	Jamarco Jones	Ohio State	OT	6'5"	310			BIO	--
21	+11	Denzel Ward	Ohio State	CB	5'11"	184			BIO	--
22	+149	Rashaan Evans	Alabama	ILB	6'2"	231			BIO	--
23	+1	Maurice Hurst	Michigan	DL3T	6'2"	282			BIO	--
24	+16	Dorance Armstrong	Kansas	EDGE	6'4"	241	OLB	-44	BIO	--
25	+12	Lamar Jackson	Louisville	QB	6'2"	205			BIO	--
26	+4	Tyquan Lewis	Ohio State	EDGE	6'3"	260			BIO	--
27	+33	Mark Andrews	Oklahoma	TE	6'5"	253			BIO	--
28	-9	Christian Kirk	Texas A&M	WRS	5'11"	201			BIO	--
29	+129	Dante Booker	Ohio State	OLB	6'3"	233			BIO	--
30	-3	Ronnie Harrison	Alabama	S	6'2"	216			BIO	--
31	NEW	Josh Adams	Notre Dame	RBF	6'2"	220			BIO	--
32	NEW	Joshua Jackson	Iowa	CB	6'1"	192			BIO	--
33	-10	Malik Jefferson	Texas	ILB	6'3"	238			BIO	--
34	-19	Tarvarus McFadden	Florida State	CB	6'1"	201			BIO	--

[The Gipper]

Draftwire has it this way:  (# represent overall prospect number)"

#4 Rosen

#6 Jackson

#8 Darnold

#20 Mayfield

#22 Rudolph

(no others in top 50)

 

[The Gipper]

Some writer from USA Today has these  (QB rankings only). this does not say what round or anything:

1. Jackson

2. Mayfield

3. Rosen

4. Darnold

5. Allen

6. Rudolph

7. Riley Ferguson..Memphis

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2017/11/30/nfl-draft-qbs-2018-quarterbacks-sam-darnold-josh-rosen-allen/906640001/