Should we draft a quarterback 1st overall?

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Again, have to ask... who has seen him lately? Has he fully comeback from his injury?

 

Oh yeah.  Had a pick 6 two weeks ago, and he's been a nightmare all season.  Although he's dropped two picks...he's still a monster and always near the ball.  His injury wasn't as severe as an ACL, and he probably could've come back last year at some point, but they didn't figure it was worth it.  He'll be a top 5 pick and his stock will skyrocket after the combine.  He'll put up stupid numbers.  

[TexasAg1969]

Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.

That's what I've been worried about if everyone makes it to Season 3, its that they would know they need to start showing results NOW, and in their mind relying on a rookie QB isn't the way for them to go. So they'd pass on another QB high in the draft, get McCarron instead, suck, and all get fired anyway.

Basically Butch Davis/Jeff Garcia/Ben Roethlisburger all over again.

[Tour2ma]

13 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

These idiots geniuses are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case

Hmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.

McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.

[TexasAg1969]

1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

Hmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.

McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.

"Vet" has to be a real stretch of the imagination on AJ Mr. Trump..............................er.......... Tour.

[jiggins7919]

23 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Hmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.

McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.

 

Yep, you've pretty much nailed it.  There are a few problems with this strategy though.  At the moment, McCarron is involved in a case with the league to become an unrestricted free agent.  I don't know what the timeline is for something like that, but if he's granted FA status, I don't see him going to a team unless he's pretty much promised the starting role.  Has he earned that?  I don't think so, but I'm guessing that would be his mindset.  Could he go to the Jaguars and be THEIR starter?  I would argue he's better than Bortles right now.  ESPECIALLY with that defense.  How about the Bills or even the Giants?  Jets?  Broncos?  My point is, I think McCarron will be looked at by some teams as their "starting QB", and right or wrong, he'll be somewhat promised the starting role.  

I saw yet another article saying the best thing the Browns can do to fix the QB position is to pay Kirk Cousins big money.  Personally, I don't see the Redskins letting him walk, and they'll either hammer out a deal or franchise him again for an absurd amount of money.  However, if that DOESN'T happen, the Browns certainly have the cap space to offer a stupid level contract, and it's probably worth it.  If that happens, bring back Pryor.  Draft another WR.  Draft a RB.  It might be a pipe dream, but if you break the bank and get Cousins, Pryor, draft Darrius Guice at RB, and draft another WR, all of the sudden you might have a team.  I refuse to add Josh Gordon to our list of 2018 weapons because we've learned he's fool's gold.  

[Tour2ma]

I think Cousins is fool's gold... a/k/a made for us? He's just good enough to contend.

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

"Vet" has to be a real stretch of the imagination on AJ Mr. Trump..............................er.......... Tour.

Why? Finishing his 3rd year in the league... solid citizen... smart... hard-working... Hue would know whether his game prep is the example-worthy stuff.

Not saying he jumps to the top of the list, just an addition. But he does violate my "still sees himself as a starter" criteria.

[calfoxwc]

I'm not sold on Rosen at all:

http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php

but he definitely needs to improve his vision for the NFL. UCLA has called a lot of primary-option quick-pass plays, so Rosen could use more reps taking deep drops and working through reads.

Like all college players, there are things that Rosen can improve on. For one, he could stand to get better with the consistency of his accuracy. There are times when Rosen gets into stretches where his accuracy is off and he can miss some throws he should complete. Rosen needs to get faster and speed up the process to scan through his progressions, too. In the pros, he is going to need to move his eyes more and not lock onto his primary read or one of the side of the field so much. The junior also needs to stay healthy in 2017 to avoid having serious durability concerns about him for the NFL.

One of the big problems for Rosen entering his junior year is that he has developed a reputation for having poor intangibles as a bad teammate and leader. Football is an emotional game, and NFL teams want their quarterbacks to be positive team leaders. Whether it is a vocal leader or a quiet lead-by-example type, NFL evaluators and coaches want the quarterback to be a player who teammates gravitate toward with the ability to lead his team in crunch time. Rosen is said to be disliked in the Bruins' locker room, and it sounds like he needs a personality make-over. A scout who has done advance work on the 2018 NFL Draft had this to say about Rosen:
 

1. "Right now I have them rated [Sam] Darnold, [Josh] Allen, [Lamar] Jackson, and then Rosen....Rosen has huge talent and lacks intangibles. He is a prototypical pocket guy. I love his talent, but his own teammates don't like him. Being a prick is one thing, but there aren't many quarterbacks who stick around long-term and are successful that couldn't get along well with their teammates."
    

Thus, Rosen has a lot riding on his junior year on the field and off of it.
Read more at http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php#eOKQCFDTd5hOv4F2.99

[calfoxwc]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2737050-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-josh-allen-the-nfl-and-the-huge-twitter-debate

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/08/28/six-quarterbacks-nfl-draft-class-sam-darnold-josh-rosen-lamar-jackson/561024001/

The No. 1 pick: Josh Allen, Wyoming

The following anecdote might not come as a surprise: Allen once told his roommate, former Wyoming wide receiver Joe Parker, that he’d be taken in the first round of the NFL draft.

But Allen didn’t make this prediction while his stock was growing in recent months, or even last fall, when his rocket arm and pocket savvy led the wildly overlooked recruit from central California to pop up on the radar of NFL scouts and personnel executives. He made this bold claim last spring, after having participated in 15 plays on the Football Bowl Subdivision level.

“If no one else is going to believe in you, at least you’ve got yourself,” Allen said. “I’m just an extremely confident guy, and I think I’m the best quarterback in the country. I don’t know why I believed it. It’s just the things I feel like I can do are better than what other people can do.”

Allen has blazed a path from Firebaugh, where he earned no scholarship offers as a senior, to potentially being the first overall pick in next spring’s NFL draft, a fact that would fulfill his bold claim, albeit one year later than projected.

He has the arm. The athleticism. The almost limitless room for growth. All that’s missing for Allen might be experience.

He spent one year at a junior college in Reedley, Calif., before enrolling at Wyoming, and took just those 15 snaps in 2015 before a season-ending injury in the second game. It was enough to cause Allen to fly under the radar. But the secret is out: Wyoming is home to the QB projected at this early stage to top next year’s draft.

“I don’t want to be a quarterback that’s drafted in the first round and then four years later it’s like, ‘Who the hell is this guy?’ ” Allen said. “I want to play 15-plus years. I want to be known as one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game. And I know to do that you have to start well. The NFL isn’t going away. It’ll be there next year.” 

 

[calfoxwc]

Here is my dark horse qb if he enters the 2018 draft. This is also a kid

I would draft for the Browns.

https://nflmocks.com/2017/08/04/nebraska-qb-tanner-lee-draw-nfl-scouts-attention/

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/huskers-qb-tanner-lee-challenged-to-turn-hype-into-reality-082817

"Nebraska welcomed Lee. Former NFL general manager Billy Devaney, the Huskers’ executive director of player personnel, had heard about him from Archie Manning, the former New Orleans Saints QB, father of Peyton and Eli and executive director of the Manning Passing Academy.

Devaney said in February that Archie told him after the 2015 session of the academy that Lee outperformed California’s Jared Goff, who went on to become the 2016 No. 1 overall draft pick.

“We have a boy here that put him to shame,” Devaney quoted Archie as saying. “There is a boy down at Tulane named Tanner Lee. I said, ‘You’ve got to be kidding me.’ I know how Goff throws, and you are saying Tanner Lee throws the ball better? Archie said, ‘There was no comparison. You have to keep your eye on this boy from Tulane.’ “

https://www.landof10.com/nebraska/nebraska-qb-tanner-lee-might-best-college-qb-manning-camp-last-week-according-one-scout

LINCOLN, Neb. — The reason you haven’t heard the buzz is because the Manning family does a great job of keeping the media away from the Manning Passing Academy, says Patrick Woo, who scouts for the Reese’s Senior Bowl.

But buzz is starting to trickle out from the camp, which ended Sunday in Thibodaux, La.

And it’s about Nebraska quarterback Tanner Lee.

“[Louisville QB] Lamar Jackson, UCLA’s Josh Rosen and USC’s Sam Darnold are great, but Tanner Lee was my favorite guy,” said Woo, who helps build the Senior Bowl roster and serves as a liaison between college programs and NFL coaching staffs.

Woo was on hand for the Manning Camp last week, where 43 of the nation’s top college quarterbacks worked out with Super Bowl-winning QBs Peyton and Eli Manning. Woo first saw Lee at the camp in 2015, when Lee was at Tulane. He stood out then, and he stood out more last week.

“He looks the part. And he threw the ball well in 2015 and it was no surprise he won the starting job at Tulane,” Woo said. “At that time in the college football landscape, he was the best QB in the state of Louisiana because LSU was struggling to find the guy.

“He had a really impressive spring this spring. He’s a big body, and has a strong arm. A really, really strong arm.”

Woo said the two things that stood out about Lee were his accuracy and how well he throws the deep ball.

“He embodies everything you want in a true pocket passer,” Woo said. “His ability to place the ball is great. I thought he moved around well; I thought he showed a lot of mobility. And he’s a great guy. I really enjoyed spending time with him.”

Woo thinks Lee can throw the deep ball “as good as anyone in the country.”

And if the 2017 season goes as well, Lee could be looking at a tough decision.

“If he plays up to his capable skills, he may or may not have a decision to make come NFL draft time after this season,” Woo said.

At Tulane, Lee threw for 1,639 yards and 11 touchdowns as a sophomore in 2015.

He started as a true freshman in 2014, throwing for 1,962 yards and 12 touchdowns. He transferred to Nebraska after the 2015 season.

earned Scout Team MVP honors during the 2016 season. Lee and redshirt freshman Patrick O’Brien switched off first-team snaps during the spring, but Huskers coach Mike Riley named Lee the starter one week after the spring game.

At 6-foot-4 and 220 pounds, Lee will be Riley’s first pro-style passer while at Nebraska. Woo thinks the Lee-Riley combination could be great for both parties.

“I don’t know if he’ll get All-Big Ten Conference votes, but I do know he’s one of the most talented throwers in the league, and an outstanding leader,” Woo said. “I think he can be an elite game manager, and he can do more than that if Nebraska is able to open things up.”

[calfoxwc]

with all the great talent in this next qb class, if Lee is in the 2018 draft - my two picks for the Browns

are Allen and Lee. Argue stats forever, but stats don't make the case entirely at all.

I look for a pro quarterback that can lead his team, character/intelligent football IQ/love for the game/leadership/intangibles to inspire his teammates..

it's easy to find the physical tools. btw, nole that Woo says Lee throws better than Goff. I mean, seriously -

Josh Allen or Tanner Lee. Take it to the bank, jack.

[The Gipper]

16 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.

My fear is that all these idiots will be here to attempt such a move:

Solution:   get rid of these idiots.

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Hmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.

McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.

Maybe....as long as they get the idea that all they are doing is holding the water bucket for Rosen until he develops. 

[Nero]

16 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.

I'm also afraid of that scenario. I think we should take a veteran QB before the draft, but I won't stay calm until we draft a QB. Them sticking to McCarron as our QBotF is scary. Hell, in Spanish his name (macarrón) means macaroni, I can't take him seriously.

It'd be SO stupid not to draft a QB this April...

[calfoxwc]

I could be happy with Allen or Lee later with the second first round pick, even with a trade down and Lee..

and pick Minkah Fitspatrick cb/fs with the first pick. should be an amazing draft.

but you have to pick a qb - we'll know more after watching Kizer play out the rest of the season.

[Clevfan4life]

I love how people wail ceaselessly about us trading out of goff and wentz. Now want us trade out of rosen/darnold/allen etc. All who at this point of their careers faced much tougher opponents than wentz did. 

Look perhaps personal issues crop up with rosen. But as of right now that kids the clear eye test winner. I pointed out a play he made against the usc game where he exhibited poise in the face of a free charging pass rusher that i honestly cant remember seeing from anyone, especially in college. Freezing the rusher with a pump fake aimed directly at him allowing an underneath crossing route to come free for a first down......i mean damn. Its easy to get googly eyed by arm talent....weedon.....but that kind of pocket poise is almost more important

[tiamat63]

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Hmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.

McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.

 A little shocked you hadn't arrived at that potential lineup a while ago.

[Tour2ma]

38 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 A little shocked you hadn't arrived at that potential lineup a while ago.

I'm a lil off today...

Also just added Eli to the vet mix... but as FA. There are $45mm reasons to not trade for him.

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

I'm a lil off today...

Also just added Eli to the vet mix... but as FA. There are $45mm reasons to not trade for him.

Somebody asked me what I thought about Eli for a 2 year deal not a minute after I walked into work.  Response was about the same.  Eli is good off the ball action game and would offer a lot in the QB room but I'm not paying him his current salary.

Hard to imagine him not ending up in Jacksonville though.   Old head coach, young RB, good defense and some young receivers to work with? Improve their Oline situation and they're superbowl contenders.  

[Dutch Oven]

9 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

with all the great talent in this next qb class, if Lee is in the 2018 draft - my two picks for the Browns

are Allen and Lee. Argue stats forever, but stats don't make the case entirely at all.

So you want to disregard stats when discussing Allen's faults? Alright then.

Let's discuss his horrible mechanics and the massive jump from the poor competition he mostly faced to the NFL then.

And trust me cal, a lot of us really know why you don't like Rosen.

[Dutch Oven]

9 hours ago, The Gipper said:

My fear is that all these idiots will be here to attempt such a move:

Solution:   get rid of these idiots.

My biggest fear is everyone DOES survive for a third season and in an attempt to make sure they make it to a fourth they make short-term moves in an attempt to win NOW, and not better moves that would make this team much better long-term.

Something along the lines of passing on a QB high in the next draft and signing McCarron. (Basically, the 2018 version of what I've mentioned before - the sign Jeff Garcia/not draft Roethlisberger desperate move of Butch Davis).

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

So you want to disregard stats when discussing Allen's faults? Alright then.

Let's discuss his horrible mechanics and the massive jump from the poor competition he mostly faced to the NFL then.

And trust me cal, a lot of us really know why you don't like Rosen.

WRONG.

https://www.thephinsider.com/2017/9/6/16258338/josh-allen-has-the-strongest-arm-in-college-football

"His mechanics are clean and polished, and arm strength will never be a problem for him in the NFL. There isn’t a long-distance throw that he can’t make, nor a part of the field that he can’t attack. He throws on the run at an elite level, and his release is quick enough to squeeze it into tight windows during broken plays. "

 

[calfoxwc]

Like all college players, there are things that Rosen can improve on. For one, he could stand to get better with the consistency of his accuracy. There are times when Rosen gets into stretches where his accuracy is off and he can miss some throws he should complete. Rosen needs to get faster and speed up the process to scan through his progressions, too. In the pros, he is going to need to move his eyes more and not lock onto his primary read or one of the side of the field so much. The junior also needs to stay healthy in 2017 to avoid having serious durability concerns about him for the NFL.

One of the big problems for Rosen entering his junior year is that he has developed a reputation for having poor intangibles as a bad teammate and leader. Football is an emotional game, and NFL teams want their quarterbacks to be positive team leaders. Whether it is a vocal leader or a quiet lead-by-example type, NFL evaluators and coaches want the quarterback to be a player who teammates gravitate toward with the ability to lead his team in crunch time. Rosen is said to be disliked in the Bruins' locker room, and it sounds like he needs a personality make-over. A scout who has done advance work on the 2018 NFL Draft had this to say about Rosen:
 

1. "Right now I have them rated [Sam] Darnold, [Josh] Allen, [Lamar] Jackson, and then Rosen....Rosen has huge talent and lacks intangibles. He is a prototypical pocket guy. I love his talent, but his own teammates don't like him. Being a prick is one thing, but there aren't many quarterbacks who stick around long-term and are successful that couldn't get along well with their teammates."

Read more at http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php#brkX4pbwO0R7jh1X.99

[Dutch Oven]

6 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

WRONG.

https://www.thephinsider.com/2017/9/6/16258338/josh-allen-has-the-strongest-arm-in-college-football

"His mechanics are clean and polished, and arm strength will never be a problem for him in the NFL. There isn’t a long-distance throw that he can’t make, nor a part of the field that he can’t attack. He throws on the run at an elite level, and his release is quick enough to squeeze it into tight windows during broken plays. "

 

He's got a very strong arm.

His footwork is atrocious. He throws off his back foot on the regular.

[D Bone]

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/24141/browns-long-term-solution-how-about-kirk-cousins-and-saquon-barkley

 

Browns' long-term solution? How about Kirk Cousins and Saquon Barkley

BEREA, Ohio -- There are days when the Cleveland Browns seem light years from being competitive.

As ridiculous as it sounds, though, there is a way to look at the Browns as one offseason away. Yes, that's a tired old refrain in Cleveland, where the football team has been one offseason away for ... oh ... 18 years.

But this offseason, the Browns actually are positioned for dramatic work -- if they want to do it, and have the gumption to do it. They even could do it if the owner wants to retain the same front office and coaching staff -- if they are willing to make a tectonic shift in how players are evaluated.

The Browns at present have $61 million in salary-cap space and are projected to top $100 million in cap space for 2018, according to overthecap.com.

That number will shrink, dramatically, but even if it shrinks by only half, the Browns will have a lot of room to work with in free agency.

Their needs are evident: Another quarterback, another running back to replace Isaiah Crowell, who appears headed to free agency, another receiver (or two), a cornerback and a safety.

Five picks in the first two rounds of the draft will address some of those needs.

But free agency can as well.

Here's how:

1) Sign Kirk Cousins, quarterback from the Washington Redskins.

There are concerns about this. Cousins will demand the kind of money that will make the Terminal Tower tilt. And he'd get it from the Browns. Given the state of the team, the Browns can't afford to skimp.

Cousins also might not make free agency. The Redskins may make him their franchise player, again. Cousins also is seeking an organization he can believe in, where he can win without drama. That doesn't seem to fit Cleveland.

The solution?

Money. It talks, and everything else walks in these situations. Players over and over say this and that about free agency, but as a veteran coach once said, "It's always about the money." The Browns showed that last offseason when they spent freely. This offseason, they are positioned to spend enormous amounts of money on a player like Cousins. If he gets to free agency and the possibility exists he'd consider the Browns, then the Browns need to do it. The team is in that state. They simply need to do it.

Why Cousins?

Needed credibility. He has played, he has played well, he has won, and he has been in playoff games. He's second in the league this season in passing yards with 3,038, and he has 19 touchdowns and six interceptions. His rating of 101.1 is seventh. In terms of Total QBR, he's eighth, between Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson.

In his career, he has completed 65.9 percent of his throws, has 91 touchdowns to 48 interceptions and a rating of 95.1.

He's not Tom Brady. He's not Drew Brees. He may not even be Jared Goff. But he's the best option the Browns have heading into this offseason.

What does this say about DeShone Kizer? Nothing. Kizer is improving. If he's good enough and up to the competition, he'll keep the job.

2) Draft Saquon Barkley, Penn State running back.

Isaiah Crowell is more or less gone, though lately with more opportunities, he has been showing the skills he displayed a year ago. If Crowell leaves, the Browns could add a dynamic back in Barkley.

His evaluations will fluctuate as the draft approaches, but the decreased importance of the running back in today's era is silly. Leonard Fournette has helped the Jaguars. Todd Gurley looks good with the Rams. Barkley runs hard, is quick and can catch the ball too. He has averaged more than 5 yards per carry three years in a row.

3) Light a lot of candles that Josh Gordon really is back for good.

Gordon has climbed a mountain to get to this point. His daily struggle now begins. If he's back whole and healthy and even 75 percent of what he was, the Browns have their No. 1 receiver. Time will answer whether he is.

4) Re-sign Terrelle Pryor.

Pryor made a mistake leaving the Browns, a place where he had a spot and was comfortable and where he had a good relationship with the coach. Assuming Hue Jackson is back, Pryor would be more productive in Cleveland than in D.C.

Pryor and Cousins may not have had great success this season, but the two will have a year's experience together, and Pryor is familiar with the Browns' system. The combination of Pryor and Gordon with perhaps Corey Coleman or a drafted player (Calvin Ridley, Courtland Sutton) in the slot (yes, the slot for Coleman) and David Njoku at tight end ... suddenly the Browns seem to have something in the passing game.

5) Draft the right guys.

Get a cornerback. Get a safety. Get a receiver, or two.

More important, forget algorithms, forget projections, forget the fact that a guy looks like a future player even though he couldn't catch in college. Draft football players. Repeat: Draft football players. Make the input of the coaching staff matter more than computer printouts from the second floor. If it takes giving Jackson final say over personnel, then give him final say. Let the football folks make the decisions.

It's not complicated, really.

Line up Cousins at quarterback with Barkley at running back, Gordon, Pryor and a to-be-determined at receiver, and Njoku at tight end with a defense that has shown signs, and 2018 might just be the year of the real turnaround.

Yes, this kind of pie-in-the-sky scenario has been written before. Too many times.

But this scenario might just work.

[TexasAg1969]

Pryor!? Writer lost all credibility right there.

[Tour2ma]

11 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Rosen needs to get faster and speed up the process to scan through his progressions, too.

I haven't seen a QB who goes thru his progressions faster.

[Tour2ma]

10 hours ago, D Bone said:

5) Draft the right guys.

Why didn't we think of this?

[LogicIsForSquares]

I doubt there is enough money to lure Cousins to Cleveland. Someone would have to abduct his wife in a "Taken" scenario where Cousins has a particular set of skills and thus has to make the playoffs in order to save his old lady. 

[LogicIsForSquares]

Cousins will end up with a team that is just lacking a QB to make a decent run (i.e. Jacksonville).