An Honest Question: What is it about this FO....

[nickers]

That some of you are willing to let this Sheet show go on.. They are 1-25 at this point.. What do you have in your crystal balls that makes you think these idiots will be successful... Me personally..Theres not one valid reason to keep these schmucks if they go 1-15 again..

I really want to ask.. I'm sure some of you own companies, or small business or hold positions of management.. Be honest.. If someone on your payroll performed like these dimwits have.. Tell me that you honestly would keep them...

[Dutch Oven]

This should be interesting.

[LBC mike]

You can have a good set up let's say a McDonald's that you own and the manager of the place has bad clock managment and continuously burns the food.  and you can't manage the workers (players) correctly like having the janitor work the cash register.  That McDonald's will fail.

[LBC mike]

Yes fire the manager hue.  Keep the rest intact 

[wargograw]

This has been answered very thoroughly in several different places. Open your eyes and read. This thread is just a waste of board space. 

[wargograw]

Also, I’d love to hear your detailed analysis of why firing everyone would work? Extra points if you do it WITHOUT crediting Sashi (like “we have a great base of young talent, now if we could just.....”).

[Tacosman]

35 minutes ago, wargograw said:

Also, I’d love to hear your detailed analysis of why firing everyone would work? Extra points if you do it WITHOUT crediting Sashi (like “we have a great base of young talent, now if we could just.....”).

we DONT have a great base of young talent though, and he is partly responsible for that.

[Dutch Oven]

Wargo has admitted that the overwhelming reason he wants this front office to get another season isn't because he's impressed with the job they are doing so far, but because this team has to show people that you can get more than two seasons before you are fired.

It's pointless to argue with him, regarding this subject, if this is what he's basing his want of a third year for the current front office.

[Tacosman]

6 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Wargo has admitted that the overwhelming reason he wants this front office to get another season isn't because he's impressed with the job they are doing so far, but because this team has to show people that you can get more than two seasons before you are fired.

It's pointless to argue with him, regarding this subject, if this is what he's basing his want of a third year for the current front office.

well not only that, but his argument fails at face  value because he assumes the other option is default failure.  So he's set up this scenario, for the purpose of the argument, that even is sashi is given another year or two and continues to make bad calls on draft picks and the roster continues to suck, then he will just shrug and say "well I wasn't wrong because the other way would have  produced the same results"....which of course is the ridiculous part of the argument.

Additionally, this team and this regime over the last two seasons has been SO HISTORICALLY BAD that even if we continue to suck for the next two years, SOME improvement is possible.  Simply due to a regression to the mean in terms of results.  Our pythag has been incredibly bad over the last 2 years, but not 1 win total bad.....so in a way sashi and hue have been so historically bad that even if they continue to suck and the results simply regress to the mean(4-12, 5-11) for sucking, these idiots can say "see, we are better".....

[Dutch Oven]

The funny thing is, there's a big contingency on this board that wants a complete overhaul of the organization. New front office, new coaching staff.

For reasons I don't even understand, I wouldn't be upset if everyone came back for 2018. I think there's a morbid curiosity factor going on for me.

[Bob806]

Pleading the 5th here. While I'm with many here that is frustrated as hell, I do see some young talent.

IF Peyton Manning is getting hired, as say the President of operations, he will interview these guys, and learn  the philosophy or plan they (DePodesta, Sashi) speak of. At that point he may offer an alternative plan or suggestion to those two, or blow it up and can them both. 

I'm of the belief Haslam does want Peyton here. He'd be the "football guy" so many are clamoring for. It may be a brilliant hire, or a PR move. Rest assured, Peyton doesn't want to suck. 

My gut feeling is Sashi stays and they have him focus more on contract stuff. Hue stays as well, gets a nudge or 2 about delegating his OC duties.

[Canton Mike]

6 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

Pleading the 5th here. While I'm with many here that is frustrated as hell, I do see some young talent.

IF Peyton Manning is getting hired, as say the President of operations, he will interview these guys, and learn  the philosophy or plan they (DePodesta, Sashi) speak of. At that point he may offer an alternative plan or suggestion to those two, or blow it up and can them both. 

I'm of the belief Haslam does want Peyton here. He'd be the "football guy" so many are clamoring for. It may be a brilliant hire, or a PR move. Rest assured, Peyton doesn't want to suck. 

My gut feeling is Sashi stays and they have him focus more on contract stuff. Hue stays as well, gets a nudge or 2 about delegating his OC duties.

Bob, good post & your reasoning makes sense.

Mike

[stillmotion]

35 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

Pleading the 5th here. While I'm with many here that is frustrated as hell, I do see some young talent.

IF Peyton Manning is getting hired, as say the President of operations, he will interview these guys, and learn  the philosophy or plan they (DePodesta, Sashi) speak of. At that point he may offer an alternative plan or suggestion to those two, or blow it up and can them both. 

I'm of the belief Haslam does want Peyton here. He'd be the "football guy" so many are clamoring for. It may be a brilliant hire, or a PR move. Rest assured, Peyton doesn't want to suck. 

My gut feeling is Sashi stays and they have him focus more on contract stuff. Hue stays as well, gets a nudge or 2 about delegating his OC duties.

This is exactly what i've been preaching. Bring in Manning or a person to evaluate talent. Manning obviously knows QB's better than the people we have currently picking talent. To me it's a no brainer if he's willing to be a part of the team. Sashi's done a great job with getting picks and contracts, but it doesn't mean a thing if Andrew Berry can't pick talent worth jack. We can have all of the #1 picks in the world, but we'll never have a competitive team if we continue missing on Talent. Hue needs and OC too. This is what i've been preaching (and arguing all along). So we see eye-to-eye Bob.

[stillmotion]

2 hours ago, wargograw said:

why firing everyone

Don't strawman him, He just argued about firing Hue.

I say keep everyone and I agree that next year we need to see results or it'll be hard to defend "the process".

Jimmy said we might not be competitive this year, but we sure as hell will be in 2018 and 2019. If the Browns remain 60 million under in cap space both of those years and don't add free agents then there's no reason to believe the process is working. But i'll wait until next year to talk or nitpick about that right now.

[LBC mike]

We also need an offensive coordinator 

[hoorta]

8 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Wargo has admitted that the overwhelming reason he wants this front office to get another season isn't because he's impressed with the job they are doing so far, but because this team has to show people that you can get more than two seasons before you are fired.

It's pointless to argue with him, regarding this subject, if this is what he's basing his want of a third year for the current front office.

He's going by the old investment disclaimer- past performance is no guarantee of future results. MHO? It's merely a question of how much losing Jimmy is willing to tolerate before he blows it up again. 2-3 wins fueled by Josh Gordon's return MIGHT save everyone. 0-16? Somebody is going to get canned. Bet the ranch on it. 

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

He's going by the old investment disclaimer- past performance is no guarantee of future results. MHO? It's merely a question of how much losing Jimmy is willing to tolerate before he blows it up again. 2-3 wins fueled by Josh Gordon's return MIGHT save everyone. 0-16? Somebody is going to get canned. Bet the ranch on it. 

Yep-nobody can go 1-31 and have things remain status quo. Nobody. Would it bother me to see a new HC? Nope. He's one of the poorest gameday NFL coaches I've ever seen. Zero clock management skills. Zero. And as I've said multiple times, the sooner he insists on a quality OC the more likely he is to stay.

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Yep-nobody can go 1-31 and have things remain status quo. Nobody. Would it bother me to see a new HC? Nope. He's one of the poorest gameday NFL coaches I've ever seen. Zero clock management skills. Zero. And as I've said multiple times, the sooner he insists on a quality OC the more likely he is to stay.

I don't think Hue has been set up for success by this front office, and an argument could be made that this was done on purpose. Not saying the FO has been trying to sabotage Hue, but winning NOW obviously isn't the top priority. I get this.

But Hue hasn't exactly helped himself either. He's made decisions that are just flat-out baffling at times.

[nickers]

38 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I don't think Hue has been set up for success by this front office, and an argument could be made that this was done on purpose. Not saying the FO has been trying to sabotage Hue, but winning NOW obviously isn't the top priority. I get this.

But Hue hasn't exactly helped himself either. He's made decisions that are just flat-out baffling at times.

He can always use Bill Belichicks excuse.. ''All plays are designed to score touchdowns"

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, nickers said:

He can always use Bill Belichicks excuse.. ''All plays are designed to score touchdowns"

Even Metcalf up the middle plays?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

17 hours ago, wargograw said:

This has been answered UNCONVINCINGLY  in several different places. Open your eyes and read.   I'm a waste of board space. 

 

[Tour2ma]

21 hours ago, nickers said:

I really want to ask.. I'm sure some of you own companies, or small business or hold positions of management.. Be honest.. If someone on your payroll performed like these dimwits have.. Tell me that you honestly would keep them...

Since you artfully framed the question to get either get the support you wanted or the ability to attack any who don't play along, first let me add this to your "set up"... I mean... premise.

If my hypothetical company had performed as the Browns have since '99 and I bought it in 2012 and tried to tinker around the edges for four years with no real hint of sustainable success, yes, I would stick with this management group, this organizational approach and with this plan for at least four years.

Now... "sticking with the plan" does not protect every single job in that management group, but the visible heads, the heads you want to see roll are all safe. Although in one case, Hue's case, his continued employment comes with strings attached... namely, as I have written before, with him reducing his distractions from being this franchise's HC. Could be adding an OC... could be adding a "bench coach". But some position has to be added to get him to focus on the team as a whole and his QB rearing in particular. He can continue to call plays, but when the D is on the field he stays focused on his young QB(s).

[nickers]

49 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Since you artfully framed the question to get either get the support you wanted or the ability to attack any who don't play along, first let me add this to your "set up"... I mean... premise.

If my hypothetical company had performed as the Browns have since '99 and I bought it in 2012 and tried to tinker around the edges for four years with no real hint of sustainable success, yes, I would stick with this management group, this organizational approach and with this plan for at least four years.

Now... "sticking with the plan" does not protect every single job in that management group, but the visible heads, the heads you want to see roll are all safe. Although in one case, Hue's case, his continued employment comes with strings attached... namely, as I have written before, with him reducing his distractions from being this franchise's HC. Could be adding an OC... could be adding a "bench coach". But some position has to be added to get him to focus on the team as a whole and his QB rearing in particular. He can continue to call plays, but when the D is on the field he stays focused on his young QB(s).

So please tell me.. Who said they would be back next year.. if they go 0-16.. Someone is gonna take the fall.. it's a question of whose PUD taste's better to our owner Dee Haslam... Sushi's or Hueless...

[nickers]

20 hours ago, wargograw said:

Also, I’d love to hear your detailed analysis of why firing everyone would work? Extra points if you do it WITHOUT crediting Sashi (like “we have a great base of young talent, now if we could just.....”).

Your comments bear little weight here.. Go read a comic book.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Here’s 17 reasons:

Myles Garrett

Jabrill Peppers

David Njoku

Corey Coleman

Emmanuel Ogbah

Carl Nassib

Shon Coleman

Jamie Collins

Trevon Coley

Larry Ogunjobi

Jason McCourty

Briean Boddy-Calhoun

Seth DeValve

Josh Rosen

The Other First Round Pick Next Year

Our Second Round Pick Next Year

The Other Second Round Pick Next Year

The FO has given this coaching staff more individual talent than any of our last regimes. This coaching staff, specifically the offense, hasn’t been able to do jack Sheet with it. The fault lies with Hue, not on the FO.

If you can’t understand that, well...nevermind. Nobody around here really expects you to understand that.

 

[Browns149]

Of the 13 players you listed. About 3-4 if them would be starters on a good team. 

 

FIRE THEM ALL JIMMY 

[wargograw]

23 hours ago, Tacosman said:

we DONT have a great base of young talent though, and he is partly responsible for that.

Sooo you have no explanation. Got it. Thanks.

23 hours ago, Tacosman said:

well not only that, but his argument fails at face  value because he assumes the other option is default failure.  So he's set up this scenario, for the purpose of the argument, that even is sashi is given another year or two and continues to make bad calls on draft picks and the roster continues to suck, then he will just shrug and say "well I wasn't wrong because the other way would have  produced the same results"....which of course is the ridiculous part of the argument.

Additionally, this team and this regime over the last two seasons has been SO HISTORICALLY BAD that even if we continue to suck for the next two years, SOME improvement is possible.  Simply due to a regression to the mean in terms of results.  Our pythag has been incredibly bad over the last 2 years, but not 1 win total bad.....so in a way sashi and hue have been so historically bad that even if they continue to suck and the results simply regress to the mean(4-12, 5-11) for sucking, these idiots can say "see, we are better".....

Meanwhile you assume firing everyone would work even though we have LOTS of history that it won't. So your arguments are just as absurd (and I would argue moreso) as you think mine are.

11 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Yep-nobody can go 1-31 and have things remain status quo. Nobody. Would it bother me to see a new HC? Nope. He's one of the poorest gameday NFL coaches I've ever seen. Zero clock management skills. Zero. And as I've said multiple times, the sooner he insists on a quality OC the more likely he is to stay.

Yeah let's scrap the defense and have Garrett play LB in some crappy 3-4 next year. Great plan!

3 hours ago, nickers said:

Your comments bear little weight here.. Go read a comic book.

So you have no answer either. Thanks.

[darren15]

There are lots of people dressed as Santa at this time of the year collecting for charity relying on people's sympathy to raise money...I might try the same thing in my Browns jersey .... I wonder if my local walmart would allow me to stand outside with a bell ...I bet I make more than the Santa

[Flugel]

On 11/18/2017 at 4:02 PM, wargograw said:

This has been answered very thoroughly in several different places. Open your eyes and read. This thread is just a waste of board space. 

Everywhere but the 1-25 football you want everyone to celebrate with you for some bizarre reason.  Legally Blind's QB is leading the NFL in turnovers so thank God he's at least spoiled you rotten with 5 TD passes.  Feel free to throw him a parade and report back what a terrific fan you are because of it. 

 

[Browns149]

If this regime is 1-31 after 2 years, they should ALL be fired. 

I don’t care who you want to blame. FIRE THEM ALL!!!!!