Josh Gordon - the missing piece

[domcucch1994]

Wentz would have looked great in a orange helmet, throwing bombs to JG..

[hoorta]

On 11/14/2017 at 3:22 PM, Browns_Shmucking_Rule said:

I get what you're saying Clev... I just think it sends the wrong message to the team and the league and I don't think there will be any trade deals with him. Hell I don't even think anyone would pick him up if we cut him.

You R nuts if you think we should cut Josh. The Bengals drafted Mixon after he cold-Socked that chick for example, & Ray Lewis watched 2 guys get killed by his posse and got off scot free. So you tell me what's worse, that or drinking and smoking weed? As Josh said, plenty of other NFL players light up, but they're not in the abuse program, so they know when to quit so they don't get caught.  He's a recovering addict, and he knows damn well this his last chance to fly right. He's also dirt cheap this year and next relative to his talent level. Since he's getting activated for only 5 games, that means he's only going to get 5\16 of his $1 million salary- $333k. Rookie minimum for a season is $450k. So Gordon is getting a 5 game tryout for less than what were paying Zane Gonzalez to miss field goals.  There would be plenty of teams willing to take a chance to see if Josh has his demons in check, especially at his salary level. If he performs, you can bet his next contract is going to have plenty of "outs" for any team that signs him. 

9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

In fairness to Josh, if he ran full out he'd outrun Hogan's arm in about 2.4 seconds. 

ROTFL, FIFY  

[syd]

 when the front office is let go and we get a football guy(which one would think may jump at the chance with a team that has 2 top ten picks) look what caughlin has done,are team would turn the corner with Gordon on the team

[Ghoolie]

Gordon is a big plus, but he isn't going to make up for bad play calling, time management, dropped passes, fumbles and penalties. That's on Hue and he needs to start fixing this stuff. Enough gouging our own eye out already.

[Tour2ma]

What exactly has Coughlin done?

15 hours ago, oneartist said:

Thank you for your thoughtful, intelligent comments. Kizer is young. Should we have drafted Watson and let Garrret go? I don't think so.  I was listening to the Detroit radio announcers and they were praising Kizer's game and even said there could have been a different outcome if he had played the whole game. I come to a Cleveland forum and I see less praise than opposing radio announcers. We need more spirit leaders. I still think we are headed in the right direction. Patience is needed. A little trivia - In 1965  we were were parked next to Jim browns' car in the parking lot and he got in and drove away. 

You're welcome... and apparently a fellow codger... so double welcome.

Of all the things Hue has been criticized for, putting Kizer back in the second he was cleared and had is helmet on is the most legit to my mind. Instead of being in the game he stood behind Hue watching Kessler try to throw the ball 50+ yds downfield to a wide open Treggs...

That was a travesty.

[TexasAg1969]

6 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Of all the things Hue has been criticized for, putting Kizer back in the second he was cleared and had is helmet on is the most legit to my mind. Instead of being in the game he stood behind Hue watching Kessler try to throw the ball 50+ yds downfield to a wide open Treggs...

That was a travesty.

And unfortunately very symbolic of his boneheaded clutch time coaching. He's just not very good at it.

[Tour2ma]

Got to thinking about Josh last nite... specifically... How the hell do you structure this guy's next contract?

Let's say that in the final five weeks he looks to all the world like the Flash of old... and I mean old since 2013 is a now distant memory.

Do you pay him commensurate with his top ten WR talent? He's going to want that kind of money... as in $10mm+/yr... with a huge signing bonus... and sizeable guaranteed money. How do you hand a recovering addict that kind of wad?

Assuming we do end up with his rights thru 2018, when do you do the deal? I have to assume some modicum of a loyalty discount for sticking with him for three years and counting, but do you "cash" that in the amount or the structure of the deal? And as his 2018 work reinforces his assumed 2017 showing, how quickly does that "discount" evaporate?

Financially we are protected against relapse as any suspension/ban negates the contract, but do... and can... you structure the deal to help him stay clean? By that I mean pay him a small bonus... pay him a small salary putting the bulk of his weekly paycheck in a trust that controls expenditures as long as he plays and stays clean, but locks down should he relapse?

Do you write in mandatory counseling in season? Mandatory "rehab stints" in the off-season?

 

All the above may end up being moot as he either may not be the player he was or another team will be willing to roll the dice and treat him like he was Mr. Clean in negotiations, but it's potentially one helluva quandary...

[TexasAg1969]

Good questions Tour and I do not presume to know the legalities of the various proposals you have there. I would want some kind of guarantees that negate the contract or maybe only payments of increasing value as we go through the season as a built in reward for staying clean. It would still pay if injured as long as he's clean & sober. Don't know if that is possible either.

[jiggins7919]

Believe me, I WANT Josh Gordon's story to end like a fairy-tale, but I'm too smart for that nonsense.  I'm not saying he's definitely going to fail, but I'm certainly not going to "count on him" for much of anything.  My main concern, other than the obvious, is a soft-tissue injury.  When he tried to come back last year I believe he injured a quad muscle that cost him some time.  If he gets anything like that THIS year that costs him a few weeks, we won't get to see him much at all.  Granted, it seems like he's in much better shape right now, it's still a concern for him AND Corey Coleman (who has struggled with hamstring issues).  

We could sure use a break, and we could certainly use these two guys.  The presence of Gordon alone could open up some options for us offensively, so let's hope to heck he gets on the field for all or most of the five games.  It was nice to see Kizer connect with that deep ball to Coates.  We haven't seen too much of that, and that was probably important for Kizer's confidence.  If Gordon gets on the field, he's going to get open.  Always has, and I don't expect that to change.  Especially if he's really running 4.35 40's.  

But to some extent, the original poster is right.  Gordon provides an aspect of something we've really been missing...a big play threat.  In theory, Coleman COULD provide that, but we really haven't seen it from him.  Coleman was absolutely known for his in college, so hopefully we start to see some impact plays from him and not just a few routine receptions.  We need Coleman to get the ball in space and use his speed.  We haven't seen THAT either.  Our offense is desperate for some big plays.  Something to take the pressure off of Kizer.  I was beyond pleased to see Kizer lead the offense on some long scoring drives (ending with TDs!!), and he should've had another before half time.  Anyways, someone like Gordon can go the distance from just about anywhere, and how badly do we need a few of THOSE plays?  We really haven't had any "big scoring plays" this year, in fact, I can't think of our longest TD score off hand.  

Remember, watch for Gordon playing the slot in our 3 WR sets.  He's a monster there, and he could draw some very nice matchups if we get it right.  

[Nero]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

Believe me, I WANT Josh Gordon's story to end like a fairy-tale, but I'm too smart for that nonsense.  I'm not saying he's definitely going to fail, but I'm certainly not going to "count on him" for much of anything.  My main concern, other than the obvious, is a soft-tissue injury.  When he tried to come back last year I believe he injured a quad muscle that cost him some time.  If he gets anything like that THIS year that costs him a few weeks, we won't get to see him much at all.  Granted, it seems like he's in much better shape right now, it's still a concern for him AND Corey Coleman (who has struggled with hamstring issues).  

We could sure use a break, and we could certainly use these two guys.  The presence of Gordon alone could open up some options for us offensively, so let's hope to heck he gets on the field for all or most of the five games.  It was nice to see Kizer connect with that deep ball to Coates.  We haven't seen too much of that, and that was probably important for Kizer's confidence.  If Gordon gets on the field, he's going to get open.  Always has, and I don't expect that to change.  Especially if he's really running 4.35 40's.  

But to some extent, the original poster is right.  Gordon provides an aspect of something we've really been missing...a big play threat.  In theory, Coleman COULD provide that, but we really haven't seen it from him.  Coleman was absolutely known for his in college, so hopefully we start to see some impact plays from him and not just a few routine receptions.  We need Coleman to get the ball in space and use his speed.  We haven't seen THAT either.  Our offense is desperate for some big plays.  Something to take the pressure off of Kizer.  I was beyond pleased to see Kizer lead the offense on some long scoring drives (ending with TDs!!), and he should've had another before half time.  Anyways, someone like Gordon can go the distance from just about anywhere, and how badly do we need a few of THOSE plays?  We really haven't had any "big scoring plays" this year, in fact, I can't think of our longest TD score off hand.  

Remember, watch for Gordon playing the slot in our 3 WR sets.  He's a monster there, and he could draw some very nice matchups if we get it right.  

I thought of the big plays too. One of the problems that Kizer is facing is that he hasn't had any deep threat receiver, so if Gordon could strech the field for him suddenly there would be more space to make plays. Anyway, as you said, I prefer to stay calm about Gordon and don't get in the hype train. Let's wait till we see him in 3 weeks. 

[Tour2ma]

The beauty of 2013 Gordon was his route tree was complete. He took quick slants to the house and turned WR screens into big plays.

And then he stretched the field... flies... deep posts... deep crosses...

 

And his catch radius? Fahgeddabouddit... not even Wheezy and Campbell could miss him... at least as long as they stuck to their forehand.

 

**sigh**

[domcucch1994]

Carson Wentz, The Missing Piece..

Should have drafted Wentz...

[Mark O]

1 minute ago, domcucch1994 said:

Carson Wentz, The Missing Piece..

Should have drafted Wentz...

Talk about beating a dead horse.   Good lord man....let it go.

[Tour2ma]

3 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Talk about beating a dead horse.   Good lord man....let it go.

Especially in a Gordon thread...

[domcucch1994]

Just now, Mark O said:

Talk about beating a dead horse.   Good lord man....let it go.

But he is an Eagle instead of a Brown.. I. Will. NEVER. Let. This. Go...

2,262 Yards

23 TDs

5 INTs

60% completion percentage

104.1 QBR

[domcucch1994]

Imagine Wentz to Gordon?

Makes your prick hard right?

[Tacosman]

41 minutes ago, domcucch1994 said:

But he is an Eagle instead of a Brown.. I. Will. NEVER. Let. This. Go...

2,262 Yards

23 TDs

5 INTs

60% completion percentage

104.1 QBR

nor should you.....that could be a 'miss' that haunts us for years.  And as I've said before, it's not the type of miss that tons of teams missed on.  this was a simple and direct up/down vote on the guy at #2 that we simply screwed the pooch on.

they are already talking about building sashi brown monuments in philly....

[Mark O]

40 minutes ago, domcucch1994 said:

Imagine Wentz to Gordon?

Makes your prick hard right?

no it does not.  

[The Gipper]

50 minutes ago, domcucch1994 said:

Imagine Wentz to Gordon?

Makes your prick hard right?

See the TWITAFCN   thread.  There you may find something that makes your prick hard....but not here.

[Tour2ma]

Ah.... a veiled Zoey reference???

Actually she'd look pretty good in veils.

44 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

nor should you.....that could be a 'miss' that haunts us for years.  And as I've said before, it's not the type of miss that tons of teams missed on.  this was a simple and direct up/down vote on the guy at #2 that we simply screwed the pooch on.

Yet you've said...

On 2/3/2016 at 2:56 PM, Tacosman said:

I have no idea if goff, lynch, or wentz will be a good nfl starter or a crappy journeyman.....what I do know is that if anyone tells you they know, they are FOS. None are cant miss prospects, and none are sure thing duds.

So the Iggles were FOS... got it.

 

... and money is still on you being a Phoolie alt. No way thee can be two members with egos this oversized...

On 2/3/2016 at 2:56 PM, Tacosman said:

Just because i've been right every damn time on every damn thing since I've come in here...

 

[Tacosman]

9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Ah.... a veiled Zoey reference???

Actually she'd look pretty good in veils.

Yet you've said...

So the Iggles were FOS... got it.

 

... and money is still on you being a Phoolie alt. No way thee can be two members with egos this oversized...

 

I didn't know whether Wentz would be good or not two years ago.  I said as much(what you quoted above).  The eagles didn't either('know').  They looked at the situation, and made a yes call.  It looks like they were right.  They get kudos for that and rewards.  The Browns front office looked at the situation and made a no call.  It looks like they were wrong.  There are obvious negative repercussions for that.  Not sure why those basic concepts are difficult for you to understand.   

 

 

 

[Tour2ma]

29 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

I didn't know whether Wentz would be good or not two years ago.  I said as much(what you quoted above).  The eagles didn't either('know').  They looked at the situation, and made a yes call.  It looks like they were right.  They get kudos for that and rewards.  The Browns front office looked at the situation and made a no call.  It looks like they were wrong.  There are obvious negative repercussions for that.  Not sure why those basic concepts are difficult for you to understand.  

I understand perfectly...

You have neither the talent nor the balls to make a stand on a player before hand.  Riddle me this... How can you always be right when you never take a position?

Life is much easier when all you do is sit back and throw rocks. Kudos...

[wargograw]

20 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Got to thinking about Josh last nite... specifically... How the hell do you structure this guy's next contract?

Let's say that in the final five weeks he looks to all the world like the Flash of old... and I mean old since 2013 is a now distant memory.

Do you pay him commensurate with his top ten WR talent? He's going to want that kind of money... as in $10mm+/yr... with a huge signing bonus... and sizeable guaranteed money. How do you hand a recovering addict that kind of wad?

Assuming we do end up with his rights thru 2018, when do you do the deal? I have to assume some modicum of a loyalty discount for sticking with him for three years and counting, but do you "cash" that in the amount or the structure of the deal? And as his 2018 work reinforces his assumed 2017 showing, how quickly does that "discount" evaporate?

Financially we are protected against relapse as any suspension/ban negates the contract, but do... and can... you structure the deal to help him stay clean? By that I mean pay him a small bonus... pay him a small salary putting the bulk of his weekly paycheck in a trust that controls expenditures as long as he plays and stays clean, but locks down should he relapse?

Do you write in mandatory counseling in season? Mandatory "rehab stints" in the off-season?

 

All the above may end up being moot as he either may not be the player he was or another team will be willing to roll the dice and treat him like he was Mr. Clean in negotiations, but it's potentially one helluva quandary...

I know the perfect guy to handle such a situation. 

[domcucch1994]

20 hours ago, Mark O said:

no it does not.  

Don't lie Mark-O

You'd be getting a raging one if that had happened..

[DieHardBrownsFan]

9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I understand perfectly...

You have neither the talent nor the balls to make a stand on a player before hand.  Riddle me this... How can you always be right when you never take a position?

Life is much easier when all you do is sit back and throw rocks. Kudos...

With my wives my philosophy has always been it's easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.

[Mark O]

2 hours ago, domcucch1994 said:

Don't lie Mark-O

You'd be getting a raging one if that had happened..

Sorry...football players don't do it for me.    No matter what team they play for.    But apparently it does for you....not that there's anything wrong with that.  

Enjoy your dreams of Carson Wentz in a Browns uniform.  I'll focus on the players who are actually on the team.

[domcucch1994]

On 11/17/2017 at 11:28 AM, Mark O said:

Sorry...football players don't do it for me.    No matter what team they play for.    But apparently it does for you....not that there's anything wrong with that.  

Enjoy your dreams of Carson Wentz in a Browns uniform.  I'll focus on the players who are actually on the team.

 

[Tour2ma]

On 11/17/2017 at 8:02 AM, DieHardBrownsFan said:

With my wives my philosophy has always been it's easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.

lol... and she married you?

Actually had an assistant Plant Manager impart that very "advice" to me about 30 years ago... and it was true. But it was only true when what I did worked.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... and she married you?

Actually had an assistant Plant Manager impart that very "advice" to me about 30 years ago... and it was true. But it was only true when what I did worked.

He said wives Tour not wife, so maybe that didn't work out so well after all.

[stillmotion]

Josh Gordon - WR - Browns

Browns coach Hue Jackson said getting Josh Gordon back is "like Christmas."

"I get to open a new toy," Jackson said. "I know what’s in that box, but I just want to see how good it is. It’s exciting that he’ll be back out there." Gordon is expected to return to practice this week, and he is eligible to return to the active roster Week 13. It still remains to be seen if he will be ready by then, but he has hit every target so far since being reinstated. Gordon remains worth a stash for teams headed to the fantasy playoffs.