Tacosman Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Over the last two years the browns FO has not done anything against the grain or revolutionary. They arent looking at anything through a different lens. Sam Hinkie they are not. They are simply making a lot of the same mistakes typically crappy front offices make- overpay for a veteran wide reciever without a great ceiling, make incredibly costly player eval misses(ie Wentz), overvalue certain players, etc... Some fans have latched onto this 'process' mantra because it provides some hope and solace against the present. The idea that there is some sort of master plan and that we have the 'longest view in the room' is comforting in the face of this much sucking because allows us to say "it's ok, these losses hurt now but they are neccessary for our future and the process"....it's all bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 cool story bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 "The Process" is an excuse for any fighting within the front office and coaches. "The Process" is an explanation for going 1-24. "The Process" is Sashi Brown and Hue Jackson's overconfidence, and proves they care about making money rather than winning now. "The Process" is a reason no one is accountable for mistakes, for signing people like Kenny Britt, for missing Wentz or Watson, and it's a bubble which gives people false hope that things are going great when they really aren't. "The Process" is a baseball and lawyer guys crapshoot hoping that they can get the owner a playoff quality team for as cheap as humanly possible no matter how long it takes. That being said, Hue and Sashi's overconfidence that no matter what they do, they'll have forever to do whatever they want is scary to me. In any other job, if you don't produce results, you're fired (Giants and Mcadoo). Other fans and owners don't put up this nonsense, but Jimmy is a redneck idiot. That being said "The Process" could work, but it's unlikely at this rate. Many varibles have to turn in our favor and we have to trust Sashi, Depo, and company to hit perfectly on the upcoming draft. We have to trust that the people we have will stay in Cleveland, and that the new FA signings we make aren't like Kenny Britt. We have to make sure people don't think our organization is toxic if we want to be a contender. It's hard to justify keeping Hue if he goes 0-16 although I want to keep him and get an OC. It's one thing to see progress with the young players, but another thing to see no wins for the fans and the value of the Cleveland Browns constantly going up and making Jimmy money year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 14, 2017 Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 21 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said: cool story bro Awesome OP... so much effort, analysis and support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 After catching up with the flying J trial and hearing Bruce Drennan speak on his own involvement with the feds, it's looking like the process may be in for a radical overhaul. The anal part of the process could be in a federal Penitentiary without a spreadsheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 DePo is going to jail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacosman Posted November 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 12:35 PM, Tour2ma said: Awesome OP... so much effort, analysis and support. every post isn't going to be a peer-reviewed paper.....it's time that this organization started to make sweeping changes and takes a different approach. The sashi/hue combo is really just more of the same aimless floudering we've seen for the last 15 years with a little bit of makeup on. We need a front office that is going to have an agenda that is consistent with team building in the nfl in 2017 founded on data driven policies and analysis. Not the contradictory bull**** hue and this FO have given us. we need to find the nfl's version of sam hinkie. These clowns arent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 So I'm free to give your posts no weight... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacosman Posted November 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Tour2ma said: So I'm free to give your posts no weight... Thanks! you're free to do anything you want...free country and all. doesn't change what the data is or what the results are either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 What data is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacosman Posted November 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 6 hours ago, Tour2ma said: What data is that? All the data of course. defensive and offensive efficiency ratings this year. then those compared to last year. pythags this year compared to last year. We'll see what the next several games bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Tacosman said: All the data of course. defensive and offensive efficiency ratings this year. then those compared to last year. pythags this year compared to last year. We'll see what the next several games bring. Had to Google pythags......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 59 minutes ago, D Bone said: Had to Google pythags......... Pretty sure that's happens to me when A&M loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 22 hours ago, Tour2ma said: DePo is going to jail? His boss just might. He put the anal in the equation without much if any locker room presence. He says he's no crook. I remember hearing that in 1973.... Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkid3 Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 18 hours ago, Tacosman said: every post isn't going to be a peer-reviewed paper.....it's time that this organization started to make sweeping changes and takes a different approach. The sashi/hue combo is really just more of the same aimless floudering we've seen for the last 15 years with a little bit of makeup on. We need a front office that is going to have an agenda that is consistent with team building in the nfl in 2017 founded on data driven policies and analysis. Not the contradictory bull**** hue and this FO have given us. we need to find the nfl's version of sam hinkie. These clowns arent it. Oh you mean change like what they have been doing almost every year. Shmuck outta here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 15 hours ago, Tour2ma said: What data is that? Final scores! Flat line across the board. Look at the graph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 Pretty sure our scores have had a few bumps... enough for life support... 10 hours ago, D Bone said: Had to Google pythags......... Me, too... Did it do you any more good than it did me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacosman Posted November 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 12 hours ago, Alkid3 said: Oh you mean change like what they have been doing almost every year. Shmuck outta here. more of the same nonsense isn't really change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 10 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Me, too... Did it do you any more good than it did me? Well, I had to Google some of the results I got Googling pythags.... so no, not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 10 hours ago, D Bone said: Well, I had to Google some of the results I got Googling pythags.... so no, not really. Only stats needed. The wins, losses, months trying. Flat line means plug pulling time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 On 11/16/2017 at 10:23 PM, Tacosman said: All the data of course. defensive and offensive efficiency ratings this year. then those compared to last year. pythags this year compared to last year. We'll see what the next several games bring. Pythags this..In 2016 we clearly missed on getting WR Rishard Matthews from Miami now a Titian for 3 years at 15M..In 2017 LB AJ Klein goes from Panthers to Saints for 4 years 24M..Analytic Data is garbage when Berry & Grigson can't see pure on the field talent evaluations right in front of them.. at a steal for the $$ on a contract..The complete whiffs on field talent over numbers are killers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 2 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said: Only stats needed. The wins, losses, months trying. Flat line means plug pulling time So let me try..... Wins / Losses x Time = X Got it!! X = The Process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 I haven't been thrilled with Hue Jackson, but I'm way more aggrevated by our front office. Everyone wants to point to Sashi missing on Wentz and Watson, and those are egregious mistakes, but let's look at another, smaller mistake that displays his incompetence. Sashi cut Taylor Gabriel to make room for HIS drafted WRs like Rashard Higgins, Jordan Payton, and Ricardo Louis. I don't believe any of those 3 guys make it on an active NFL roster. The one exception COULD be Higgins, as Kizer has missed him for at least three touchdowns this year, and Higgins has been open multiple other times for big gains. His hands have proven to be mostly reliable, and he MIGHT help someone. But Taylor Gabriel is making plays. Some of them big. That's an inexcusable miss and it really shows just how out of his depth Sashi is at his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 I wanted to keep Gabe as well, but c'mon... let's not over-romanticize him. He's a solid #3... no more... no less. He's not a building block in his mid-20's. Is he better than our kids (I can hear you ask)? Yes... but we had to learn that and now that we have... easy fix. Part of the philosophy of this FO... this organization... is to invest in and develop young players. No better examples than Kizer and Njoku and Garrett... players we can have for a decade, if they develop. As for egregious? ummmm.... no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 I'm not saying Taylor Gabriel cures our ills, I'm merely using his departure as just one shining example of Sashi's futility. And your point that we want to invest in young players doesn't make sense. How old was Gabriel when he left? 24? Are you saying we should only develop young players WE draft our sign? Sashi didn't sign him originally, but the Browns basically gave him his start. It's one example of how poorly Sashi evaluates talent. And if you look at our worst position groupings, where do we lack the most talent? WR and QB on offense. So what's the excuse about screwing it up? Nobody else on this board thought Gabriel was worse than the idiots we kept, so how does Sashi get it wrong? Our radio guys thought it was terrible, our fans (ones I know) were ticked, and people in the media weren't happy, yet Sashi messes it up. Why cut Joe Haden? Did he dominate in Pittsburgh? No, but he didn't embarrass himself either. We needed some veteran leadership on this team, and that's another mistake made by him. And don't get me started on Wentz and Watson. Sashi single-handedly kept us in the dark ages by messing up our roster. He has the final say. His shoulders bare the weight of this talent-starved debacle called the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 I'm saying he was not worth (to us) what the Falc's paid him... which is $2.75mm this season. And Sashi does not "evaluate talent"... so there's that. That ought to get you started... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacosman Posted November 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Part of the philosophy of this FO... this organization... is to invest in and develop young players. No better examples than Kizer and Njoku and Garrett... players we can have for a decade, if they develop. two of those are first round draft picks. The philosophy of every single team in the league is to develop their first round draft picks(which, weeds excepted, are by definition young players)....so that part isn't a philosophy. One way in which organizations and front offices are judged are on whether or not those picks hit. We'll see if players like Njoku and Peppers do eventually play well, and thats how the organization will be judged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Tour2ma said: And Sashi does not "evaluate talent"... so there's that. Sashi has done a great job gathering picks and making deals. I applaud him for that. But Andrew Berry has done a sub-par job at best picking the talent, and having someone with a great eye to help him would be beneficial on us hitting on the next two drafts in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 9 hours ago, Tour2ma said: I'm saying he was not worth (to us) what the Falc's paid him... which is $2.75mm this season. And Sashi does not "evaluate talent"... so there's that. That ought to get you started... I thought he had final say on the roster- sounds like evaluating talent to me.... I've already pointed out- if it was a "consensus" the "consensus" seriously overvalued McCarron, and valued draft picks more than a potential franchise QB twice. They're batting with two strikes on them already Tour- one more, and they're OUT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 Since all you're looking at are the wins and losses, how can you tell when sashi was hired? Were the Browns a great power before he arrived? And if you can't tell the difference...... how, exactly, is sashi the problem? What's the basis for stating that replacing Sashi would make a change --- given that your data haven't shown his hiring to be consequential in the first place? This "ride down from the heavens and magically make no mistakes" role is a job description that no human I've ever met would take on. Sounds like this is a classic "build someone up as a savior simply so that we can knock him down when it turns out he's human after all" move. Even Belichick got 5 years here - and if you watch the old stories of Belichick closely, you'll see plenty of binders where he uses analytics to quantify players in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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