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Ghoolie

Deshone Kizer

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1 minute ago, Ghoolie said:

A more aggressive offense (play action deep on 2nd and 1, for instance)

One decision that I did like that Hue made this past Sunday.  It was 3rd and 1 at around our own 40ish and I want to say 1st quarter even based on the direction we were going on the field but I could be wrong.   Anyways... 3rd and short...Hue called play action...Kizer held it as long as he could and tried a short pass to the FB (one that even had some touch) and it was incomplete.  We went on 4th and Duke made it on the play that Detroit challenged the spot even though the spot was actually shitty in Detroits favor.    It was one of the few times  that it seemed that Hue was actually thinking ahead and decided we are going for it on 4th and 1 so lets take a shot here and then we can run it and get the 1st down.  

I'd like to see him do this more often to your point...but that was at least one example where I think he was being aggressive.

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2 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

He's a kid. Kid's don't do well in sports? LOL. So why draft youth? Look man,  Deshone Kizer didn't have pubic hair when Barack Obama was elected. He's a kid. It is mistakes that help a kid become a man. If the Browns abandon this kid, they will absolutely live to regret it.

Never said that they should abandon him.  Don't get this "love it or leave it mentality".  He made a terrible call and needed to face the music but instead he let Hue take the heat,

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6 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Try to follow along...I've said this several times but I know you youngsters have trouble paying attention these days.    1. Hogan sucks and is once again the 3rd string inactive QB this week.  Hogan doesn't suck and you don't know if he's going to be the #2 or not this Sunday. Nobody does. The "unofficial" depth chart online is just that... unofficial. 2. Kizer is the only QB on the roster with the POTENTIAL to be an NFL QB. That isn't true either. You or I or anybody on here knows how high Hogan's ceiling is. I'd bet 100 dollars that there's been more than 3 other QBs that had a bad game their first start and wound up or will end up in the Hall of Fame. 3.  Show me one time where I've said Kizer is any good? Putting Kizer over Hogan- when Hogan has CLEARLY outplayed Kizer makes Hogan our best QB... Please...go ahead and search every post I've made.  I've been very clear that I think every QB on the roster sucks and we will be drafting one very very early next season.  

 

 

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Hogan hasn't "clearly" outplayed anyone.   He's had some nice moments in relief but the list of QB's who look good in relief and then shit themselves when a starter is a very long one.   He threw some atrociously bad interceptions against Houston and that horrendous one against Baltimore that changed the momentum before halftime, ...anyone watching that Houston game (but you because you were too busy jerking off that your boyfriend was finally starting a game) saw that he doesn't have the arm strength to make the throws.  He's Colt McCoy..nice long career as a backup/3rd string guy.  Great work if you can get it.  Good for him.   The fact that he's got one fan who thinks he's the greatest QB since Brady should make him happy. 

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16 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Hogan hasn't "clearly" outplayed anyone.   He's had some nice moments in relief but the list of QB's who look good in relief and then Sheet themselves when a starter is a very long one.   He threw some atrociously bad interceptions against Houston and that horrendous one against Baltimore that changed the momentum before halftime, ...anyone watching that Houston game (but you because you were too busy jerking off that your boyfriend was finally starting a game) saw that he doesn't have the arm strength to make the throws.  He's Colt McCoy..nice long career as a backup/3rd string guy.  Great work if you can get it.  Good for him.   The fact that he's got one fan who thinks he's the greatest QB since Brady should make him happy. 

The Browns haven't  had a young QB look like he belonged on an NFL roster since Derek Anderson in 2007.

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Just now, BaconHound said:

The Browns have had a young QB look like he belonged on an NFL roster since Derek Anderson in 2007.

I've guessing you're saying haven't had....Shockingly of all the QB's on that "jersey", I think McCoy and Anderson are the only two who lasted for very long in the NFL after starting in Cleveland.  

Kizer might be that guy...he's got a lot of growing to do but he has the tools.   Ok game against Minnesota (and a good defense too) and better game on the road against Detroit.  This week will be a real test for him.

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2 minutes ago, Mark O said:

I've guessing you're saying haven't had....Shockingly of all the QB's on that "jersey", I think McCoy and Anderson are the only two who lasted for very long in the NFL after starting in Cleveland.  

Kizer might be that guy...he's got a lot of growing to do but he has the tools.   Ok game against Minnesota (and a good defense too) and better game on the road against Detroit.  This week will be a real test for him.

Yep sorry.  The jury is still out on Kizer for me.  I haven't see a full half yet where I was blown away.  There were games where Anderson stood in the pocket like an NFL QB and picked teams apart.

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Just now, BaconHound said:

Yep sorry.  The jury is still out on Kizer for me.  I haven't see a full half yet where I was blown away.  There were games where Anderson stood in the pocket like an NFL QB and picked teams apart.

No question the jury is still out.   I think thats the case for everyone here...I'd think everyone here (except for one) is hoping that Kizer can be that guy.  But there's no question the jury is still out.   He's got 7 more tryouts as far as I'm concerned as long as he can stay healthy.  There's at least been some progression the last couple weeks.   And one thing Kizer doesn't have that Anderson had is some good receivers.   Coleman back this week should help at least until he gets hurt again sometime in the 3rd quarter most likely.

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2 hours ago, BaconHound said:

Never said that they should abandon him.  Don't get this "love it or leave it mentality".  He made a terrible call and needed to face the music but instead he let Hue take the heat,

Fair enough. I am with you, I guess just more forgiving given the 1/2 baked support he has received so far.

 

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2 hours ago, Mark O said:

One decision that I did like that Hue made this past Sunday.  It was 3rd and 1 at around our own 40ish and I want to say 1st quarter even based on the direction we were going on the field but I could be wrong.   Anyways... 3rd and short...Hue called play action...Kizer held it as long as he could and tried a short pass to the FB (one that even had some touch) and it was incomplete.  We went on 4th and Duke made it on the play that Detroit challenged the spot even though the spot was actually shitty in Detroits favor.    It was one of the few times  that it seemed that Hue was actually thinking ahead and decided we are going for it on 4th and 1 so lets take a shot here and then we can run it and get the 1st down.  

I'd like to see him do this more often to your point...but that was at least one example where I think he was being aggressive.

I agree and saw, and applauded the same thing. My pet peeve is the 2nd,  3d and short plays. The opposing D is forced to bite on the run, and not just Hue, but most coaches don't try to capitalize and it seems most of the time play the run to get the 1st down. in the same manner, a lot of guys here make a good case for choosing plays different from what we actually do. When reading these things what strikes me most is that so often a lot of these posts are not just good ideas but it seems like the coaches have to be morons to not call the moves we are clamoring for.

Unfortunately, none of us will ever coach and NFL team, and none of us are privy to what must be an overwhelmingly voluminous book of statistics, tendencies and expected outcomes. 

I think that many coaches are afraid to be individuals, and to be creative for fear of their choice not working, leaving the owner and FO to come back after the fact and blast the HC for not playing the odds. Belichik, I think has more leeway and support to try non-traditional schemes than a lot of other coaches. I wish you and I could see what the HCs look at on game day.

There is something going on there because it seems that no matter how logical the suggestion we see made on this board, the FO and HC almost never seem to follow what we think makes great sense. Why do these guys always do stuff that makes no sense? It is like they are George Costanza being contrary George, or whatever he called himself when he was choosing to do the exact opposite of what logic seemed to dictate.

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7 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

 I think that many coaches are afraid to be individuals, and to be creative for fear of their choice not working, leaving the owner and FO to come back after the fact and blast the HC for not playing the odds. Belichik, I think has more leeway and support to try non-traditional schemes than a lot of other coaches. I wish you and I could see what the HCs look at on game day.

And some coaches become the deer in the headlights on game day. That is Hue Jackson. He freezes and gets run over in crunch time. Either fire him or give him a superior OC. It isnt working the way it is now.

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It is kind of laughable.

Wasn't there at one time a huge schism that took place on this board over who should be QB:   Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn?

And here we have a guy wanting to make a similar schism over  Kevin...freeking Hogan.

Like I said?  It is completely laughable.

 

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On 11/14/2017 at 6:39 PM, Mark O said:

He had a try...he completed more passes it seemed to the other team and guys on the sidelines than he did to his own receivers.  No need to see that Sheet show again.

And Kizer had a try.

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Just now, wargograw said:

And Kizer had a try.

And he's starting again this next week despite how poorly he played today.

Not many QB's play well against the Jags defense but I still think we are drafting a QB very early in the next draft.

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Well, facing a team that doesn't need to blitz to put QBs under pressure, and one of the bests pair of cornerback (Bouye, Ramsey), under a bad weather it's quite complicated.

Anyway, he didn't look good today. He's making sure we draft a QB next year. 

I am still looking forward to how he performs next games, but I don't have many hopes on him being our future QB. 

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Hue can go Shmuck himself, both he and Kitanic deserve each other because they both suck. 

Start Kevin Hogan when you decide you want to win a game. I hope Hue takes Kizer with him when he goes to jump in that frozen lake after the season. 

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21 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Hue can go Shmuck himself, both he and Kitanic deserve each other because they both suck. 

Start Kevin Hogan when you decide you want to win a game. I hope Hue takes Kizer with him when he goes to jump in that frozen lake after the season. 

You spend an incredible amount of time obsessing over a player in Kevin Hogan that will be on the roster for the last time with the Browns in about six weeks

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DeShone.. should be Shown  the door out of C town...

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He's a 3 year project as wasn't ready to start from the beginning. For christ sakes he's 21. But Jimmy and company insist on tanking for #1 and are coming up with every excuse possible to rationalize it.

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2 hours ago, PoeticG said:

Hue can go Shmuck himself, both he and Kitanic deserve each other because they both suck. 

Start Kevin Hogan when you decide you want to win a game. I hope Hue takes Kizer with him when he goes to jump in that frozen lake after the season. 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/11/hue_jackson_on_deshone_kizer_l.html

I picture somewhere in his moms basement...PoG crying into his Hogan jersey when he reads the news that not only will Kizer start next week, but he's the guy the rest of the way no matter what unless injured.

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It was really tough watching Kizer against the Jags. Despite having a terrible game, Kizer and the offense had a chance to win at the end. Just THINK about what a late game victory would've done for Kizer and our team. Nobody would've talking about how awful Kizer played. They would've talking about "gutting it out" and perseverance. I mean, on that fumble when we had about 1:45 to go, why would Kizer hold the ball fully extended away from his body? Was that 3rd down? If he just takes the sack, we would have had a 4th down chance for a miracle play, or a miracle penalty, or whatever. But Kizer "Statue of Liberty's" the ball at the most important time of the darn game and loses it. I don't get it. 

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4 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

It was really tough watching Kizer against the Jags. Despite having a terrible game, Kizer and the offense had a chance to win at the end. Just THINK about what a late game victory would've done for Kizer and our team. Nobody would've talking about how awful Kizer played. They would've talking about "gutting it out" and perseverance. I mean, on that fumble when we had about 1:45 to go, why would Kizer hold the ball fully extended away from his body? Was that 3rd down? If he just takes the sack, we would have had a 4th down chance for a miracle play, or a miracle penalty, or whatever. But Kizer "Statue of Liberty's" the ball at the most important time of the darn game and loses it. I don't get it. 

Only the most negative of people around here would've focused on Kizers stats as opposed to the game winning TD drive that he could've led.   I was curious to see what Hue would've done on 4th and whatever if he hadn't fumbled since we didn't waste our timeouts in the 2nd half, I would've probably punted it and tried to pin them deep and hope Bortles will Bortles the Jags.  

But we have to wait for next week to see if Kizer can play a complete game.

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18 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Only the most negative of people around here would've focused on Kizers stats as opposed to the game winning TD drive that he could've led.   I was curious to see what Hue would've done on 4th and whatever if he hadn't fumbled since we didn't waste our timeouts in the 2nd half, I would've probably punted it and tried to pin them deep and hope Bortles will Bortles the Jags.  

But we have to wait for next week to see if Kizer can play a complete game.

That was a complete game.

The dude is a 50% completion QB. Just like Mark Sanchez and all the other $hitty QBs in the NFL.

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1 minute ago, boo fagley said:

That was a complete game.

The dude is a 50% completion QB. Just like Mark Sanchez and all the other $hitty QBs in the NFL.

Let me rephrase...maybe he can play a game without so many mistakes so we might have a chance at a win.    Inaccurate in college translates to even more inaccurate in the NFL.

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6 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Let me rephrase...maybe he can play a game without so many mistakes so we might have a chance at a win.    Inaccurate in college translates to even more inaccurate in the NFL.

Like Jake Locker?

So, like Josh Allen?

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Just now, Dutch Oven said:

Like Jake Locker?

So, like Josh Allen?

Yep..  I would think so.   Being an accurate passer in college doesn't mean NFL success but being inaccurate in college doesn't get better.

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2 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Yep..  I would think so.   Being an accurate passer in college doesn't mean NFL success but being inaccurate in college doesn't get better.

I'm sure there is someone out there that was able to go from poor to good regarding accuracy, but I'll be damned if I can think of him.

Accuracy seems like something that should be able to be fixed for QBs though. Hell, Sandy Koufax couldn't hit the broad side of the barn as a youngster, eventually turned into one of the best pitchers ever. Why can't a QBs footwork and delivery be fixed too? (But I ask this realizing it doesn't seem to happen much, that I or you can think of)

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2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm sure there is someone out there that was able to go from poor to good regarding accuracy, but I'll be damned if I can think of him.

Accuracy seems like something that should be able to be fixed for QBs though. Hell, Sandy Koufax couldn't hit the broad side of the barn as a youngster, eventually turned into one of the best pitchers ever. Why can't a QBs footwork and delivery be fixed too? (But I ask this realizing it doesn't seem to happen much, that I or you can think of)

You can't make someone "accurate"... You either have it.. or you don't... Accuracy isn't just mechanics.. Instinct has a lot to do with how you throw.. The best tool for accuracy is hitch steps.. Where you plant your feet.. but you cannot teach someone how to have touch... I'll use playing guitar as an example.. Most guys who pick up the instrument have hands like cement... Then there are the ones born with natural touch and feel...

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15 hours ago, Mark O said:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/11/hue_jackson_on_deshone_kizer_l.html

I picture somewhere in his moms basement...PoG crying into his Hogan jersey when he reads the news that not only will Kizer start next week, but he's the guy the rest of the way no matter what unless injured.

If Hue needs to see more of Kizer "to know what he's got" then why try to get McCarron? Crickets chirping.

26 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

That was a complete game.

The dude is a 50% completion QB. Just like Mark Sanchez and all the other $hitty QBs in the NFL.

With a not so hot 54 qbr.

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