Browns vs Lions

[The Gipper]

20 hours ago, BrownsFan4Evr said:

Can you guys please knock off the "fire Hue Jackson" crap??!!  For Pete's sake, I'm sick of firing everybody every year and starting over. Hue justs needs some talent and time. How many of you guys calling for Hue's head could do better with this group? 

Give them time and let them grow together. Starting all over constantly SUCKS. We need receivers!!!

Hue Jackson just needs talent.      Not a truer statement is made.....   The problem is that he needs someone with talent to be the OC and HC of this team....and he does not appear to be that guy.

Again....I think a lot of the problem is that he is trying to do both jobs.....and is shitty at both jobs, where maybe if he did one or the other he could be pretty good.

[The Gipper]

18 hours ago, dawg2fan said:

First thing you have to realize is:

• Those of you calling for Hue to get canned will never get it.  You must love having a new coach every one or two years.
• If we get a new coach every 2 years....one of them may turn out to be actually good. Yes you advocate keeping trash just for the sake of keeping it.
• Those of you calling for our young players to be canned, I don't know where to begin.  Seth gets a ball knocked out, he needs to be canned.  Njuko didn't block the rusher, he needs to be canned.  And this is just this game, not to mention much more.
• I don't think these young players need to be canned. There is a lot of talent.  They do need experience...and better coaching.
• We got rid of all of our high priced players and made this team one of the youngest in the league.  They need to grow and will take time.
• Yes.....and it was still a foolish move, imo to get rid of a few of those players.  You can still have a young team with bit of veteran leadership. Keeping McCown would have helped Kizer. Keeping Haden may have helped, maybe. Keeping Barnidge would have helped.
• Kizer played much better until the last play of the game, but you have to give him credit for that.  But like I said before, these are all rookies or 2nd year players.  I truly believe in the next 2 years, these guys will be playing at a very high level.  You guys have to bear with this team.  
• What choice do we have?  We are not the one choosing this team. We know Kizer is a rook.....but I also think he could have used some veteran help to mentor him.  Nothing wrong with that.

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Nero said:

You definitely don't want a guy with a strong arm but accuracy problems to make throws putting air under the ball. I would prefer if he simply played curl, quick outs or other patterns where the ball has to get fast and the defender only can try to protect the pass and doesn't have a 50/50 shot on making an interception. Red zone efficiency sucks.

We have had this problem constantly with the Browns:  Derek Anderson, Brandon Weeden.. Who else?....and now, maybe, Kizer.  Guys with Bazooka arms who only shoot lasers, but have no touch on the ball.

[Nero]

8 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Again....I think a lot of the problem is that he is trying to do both jobs.....and is shitty at both jobs, where maybe if he did one or the other he could be pretty good.

He's not the first new HC who wants to both be a coordinator and a HC. I would get that if you were an already proven genius, but taking two spots on a coaching personnel in your first job as HC?

Even Bellichick WHO HAD A RING as defensive coordinator, when hired as HC had both OC and DC.

[Canton Dawg]

2 minutes ago, Nero said:

He's not the first new HC who wants to both be a coordinator and a HC. I would get that if you were an already proven genius, but taking two spots on a coaching personnel in your first job as HC?

Even Bellichick WHO HAD A RING as defensive coordinator, when hired as HC had both OC and DC.

Marty Schottenheimer refused to hire an OC, which ultimately led to Modell firing his azz.

[Nero]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

We have had this problem constantly with the Browns:  Derek Anderson, Brandon Weeden.. Who else?....and now, maybe, Kizer.  Guys with Bazooka arms who only shoot lasers, but have no touch on the ball.

Well, there are other QBs in the league with same assets, and intelligent coaches adapt the playing style to them. I think for example in Cam Newton. He can't be considered a super accurate QB and I wouldn't say he sucks, because he can run and has a strong arm, so when the gameplay adapts to his game his offense can work pretty well, even when he doesn't have a top receiveing unit.

[Mark O]

Just now, Nero said:

Well, there are other QBs in the league with same assets, and intelligent coaches adapt the playing style to them. I think for example in Cam Newton. He can't be considered a super accurate QB and I wouldn't say he sucks, because he can run and has a strong arm, so when the gameplay adapts to his game his offense can work pretty well, even when he doesn't have a top receiveing unit.

that would require our head coach making adjustments to the strengths of the QB.   Something Huey the bozo isn't capable of doing.

[TexasAg1969]

4 minutes ago, Nero said:

Even Bellichick WHO HAD A RING as defensive coordinator, when hired as HC had both OC and DC.

But that is what separates great coaches from fools. Rest my case.

[dawg2fan]

10 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

• Those of you calling for Hue to get canned will never get it.  You must love having a new coach every one or two years.
• If we get a new coach every 2 years....one of them may turn out to be actually good. Yes you advocate keeping trash just for the sake of keeping it.
• How long have we been doing exactly that since '99?   We's have to go back to the eighty's with Sam and Marty to almost getting there or Paul Brown in the '60s.
• Those of you calling for our young players to be canned, I don't know where to begin.  Seth gets a ball knocked out, he needs to be canned.  Njuko didn't block the rusher, he needs to be canned.  And this is just this game, not to mention much more.
• I don't think these young players need to be canned. There is a lot of talent.  They do need experience...and better coaching.
• That's not what I've been hearing on this board.
• We got rid of all of our high priced players and made this team one of the youngest in the league.  They need to grow and will take time.
• Yes.....and it was still a foolish move, imo to get rid of a few of those players.  You can still have a young team with bit of veteran leadership. Keeping McCown would have helped Kizer. Keeping Haden may have helped, maybe. Keeping Barnidge would have helped.
• I often mention on this board that we should've kept McCown to give Kizer some leadership.
• Kizer played much better until the last play of the game, but you have to give him credit for that.  But like I said before, these are all rookies or 2nd year players.  I truly believe in the next 2 years, these guys will be playing at a very high level.  You guys have to bear with this team.  
• What choice do we have?  We are not the one choosing this team. We know Kizer is a rook.....but I also think he could have used some veteran help to mentor him.  Nothing wrong with that.
• No choice and I understand that.  Did we get rid of quality players that we should've kept, absolutely.  But like I said and will continue to say, we need to give Hue time.  Now the FO might have to go.  They did a good job of helping us get rid of the older players, but they can't draft quality and it's time to go.  

 

[The Gipper]

19 minutes ago, dawg2fan said:

 

• Those of you calling for Hue to get canned will never get it.  You must love having a new coach every one or two years.
• If we get a new coach every 2 years....one of them may turn out to be actually good. Yes you advocate keeping trash just for the sake of keeping it.
• How long have we been doing exactly that since '99?   We's have to go back to the eighty's with Sam and Marty to almost getting there or Paul Brown in the '60s.
• Sam and Marty and Paul Brown were good coaches.....NONE of the guys we have had here sincee 1999 have gone on to other places and proved to be good coaches.  If we find a freeking good coach...we will keep him....we have not had nor do we have one of those now, imo.
• Those of you calling for our young players to be canned, I don't know where to begin.  Seth gets a ball knocked out, he needs to be canned.  Njuko didn't block the rusher, he needs to be canned.  And this is just this game, not to mention much more.
• I don't think these young players need to be canned. There is a lot of talent.  They do need experience...and better coaching.
• That's not what I've been hearing on this board.
• Not from me.   There IS talent on this team, imo.  It is young and has to be nurtured.  I just think Hue is a piss poor wet nurse.
• We got rid of all of our high priced players and made this team one of the youngest in the league.  They need to grow and will take time.
• Yes.....and it was still a foolish move, imo to get rid of a few of those players.  You can still have a young team with bit of veteran leadership. Keeping McCown would have helped Kizer. Keeping Haden may have helped, maybe. Keeping Barnidge would have helped.
• I often mention on this board that we should've kept McCown to give Kizer some leadership.
• Absolutely.   Only PoG would have been upset about Hogan going to the PS.
• Kizer played much better until the last play of the game, but you have to give him credit for that.  But like I said before, these are all rookies or 2nd year players.  I truly believe in the next 2 years, these guys will be playing at a very high level.  You guys have to bear with this team.  
• What choice do we have?  We are not the one choosing this team. We know Kizer is a rook.....but I also think he could have used some veteran help to mentor him.  Nothing wrong with that.
• No choice and I understand that.  Did we get rid of quality players that we should've kept, absolutely.  But like I said and will continue to say, we need to give Hue time.  Now the FO might have to go.  They did a good job of helping us get rid of the older players, but they can't draft quality and it's time to go.  
• HUe should only be given time if he agrees to bring in an OC, imo.  He is incapable of doing both jobs.

[jiggins7919]

I want to be very clear.  I do NOT want a new coach right now OR at the end of the year.  It's obvious to me that the players like our coach, and they also play hard for them.  What we need now are adjustments.  We need an OC, like many of us have been saying for a while.  This OC needs to be in TOTAL command of the clock, the play-calling, and anything else associated with scoring points.  We're going to be getting real weapons back soon, and we need to make the most of Coleman and Gordon.  I realize we won't be getting an OC THIS year, but if Gordon and Coleman are somehow on the field for us next season, I don't want their talent wasted by Hue Jackson's red zone failures.  

The other adjustment we need to our coaching staff is a serious change of scheme by Gregg Williams.  I'm not saying we need to fire him or completely alter his scheme, but he simply MUST stop blitzing so much, as it's killing us.  I know that if you live by the blitz, you die by the blitz, but that Golden Tate screen pass that went for a 40 yard TD killed us, and it shouldn't have happened.  We had only two DB's covering 3 WR's, and it was an easy audible for a seasoned pro like Stafford to make.  Tate is one of the best, actually he's THE best, yards after catch guy in the league.  Teams are starting to catch onto our aggressive tendencies, and it's becoming a problem.  That Golden Tate TD was WAY too easy, as was the Ebron TD.  He easily got by his defender, there was no help anywhere, and it was basically pitch and catch.  When is the last time we had a TD like THAT?  A nice little 30 yard bomb for a TD?  I don't remember it...do you?  

[wargograw]

20 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Well, that's the basis of most of my arguments on here with the current regime. If you read into them instead of saying i'm "clueless", "stupid", or "ignorant" you'd know I never said to fire anyone, but that Hue needs an O.C. and Sashi needs an experienced GM. Sashi did great when he had a boss is Jacksonville.

While working with the Jaguars organization, Brown served as a member of the Board of Directors and Chairman of the Section 8 Subcommittee to the Jacksonville Housing Authority. He also played a role in negotiating the naming rights deal for EverBank Field.^[2]

 

^{Sorry, but the fact that you consider this in any way whatsoever relevant to what he's doing in Cleveland is the reason you get those kinds of labels....}

[Westside Steve]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/11/13/lions-could-have-been-called-for-delay-of-game-on-browns-sneak-before-halftime/

[flyingfooldoug]

14 hours ago, wargograw said:

While working with the Jaguars organization, Brown served as a member of the Board of Directors and Chairman of the Section 8 Subcommittee to the Jacksonville Housing Authority. He also played a role in negotiating the naming rights deal for EverBank Field.^[2]

 

^{Sorry, but the fact that you consider this in any way whatsoever relevant to what he's doing in Cleveland is the reason you get those kinds of labels....}

Jags got better when he left

[Tour2ma]

On 11/12/2017 at 4:52 PM, stillmotion said:

If he'd just admit he needs a damn OC, or they got an OC, then I wouldn't be worried. Doing both is just too much for him. He's in over his head.

Clear by now that Hue isn't willing to give up the OC duty so...

Just struck me that there is another approach... the football equivalent of MLB's "Bench Coach". Kind of a chief strategist on the field to handle the time outs, challenges, etc. The active, yet 2ndary, HC bits that compete for time/attention with OC time.

While I am still concerend over Hue not spending enough time with Kizer while our D is on the field, I have noticed an uptick in "a coach", usually one of the Saunders, with Kizer. Still not what I'd ask of Hue, but seems a move in the right direction.

On 11/12/2017 at 5:19 PM, Mark O said:

First thing you have to realize is that this is a bottom line league...you are what your record says you are.   Hue is 1-24 as a HC, that sucks and he is still making the same mistakes over and over and over again.   His play callling is horrendous.  I think he's actually keeping Kizer from playing better.   So those of you saying that we should keep Huey no matter what....what does it take for him to lose his job?  Does he need to literally take a Sheet on the field during the game?   1-31 is still ok in your mind?  What about 1-47?    2-46?   What does it take for the organization to decide that he's just not a good HC and find someone else?

Time? (see below)

On 11/12/2017 at 5:31 PM, Nero said:

When a team is clearly underperforming it has to be somebody's fault or something needs to be changed. Last year we won a game. EVERYONE predicted at least 4 wins for this season (in a process, you expect progress as time advances) and it doesn't look that we will achieve that "huge" goal.

EDIT PS: I don't know why the diehard 'Process' defenders think that everyone who makes a critic is in the other side of the trenches and wants to shut down everything immediately.

Other than the fact that most do want to kill what we are building? Most want a "football guy" in charge of the FO. Most want Hue gone. Those folks are in the other trench...

Yours truly... Diehard* Process Defender-in-Chief... Tour

Our "under performance" is clearly related to one position, QB. IIRC we have tried changing QBs. How'd that go? We are riding the Kizer train wherever it takes us this year.

As I wrote before you joined... or at least started posting... we are in a "win-win" situation. If we start winning because Kizer fully "gets it" before year's end, then we win as we have our QB. If on the other hand, he doesn't, then we win the 2018 QB Draft Derby.... and still have the possibility of Kizer "getting it" next season. That we win the second way by losing, that will be hard, but it is what it is.

So, yes, Mark... I am willing to suffer 1-31, but only because I see the light at the end of the tunnel and do not think it's the TGV... In that belief therefore I give Hue this season and, so long as he does not lose the locker room and stays in alignment with this FO, I go into 2018 with him. I did not see "horrendous playcalling" in Detroit.

I saw a team moving the ball on Offense. Playing with fire... getting beat down and frustrated at the end of the 1st half, yet refiring at halftime and coming out ballin'... I saw a balanced attack running for over 200 yd and passing for 212. I saw fewer penalties and even fewer "dumb" ones. And I saw a QB comtinuing to grow... but more growth needed to be the guy.

On 11/12/2017 at 5:33 PM, Mark O said:

Exactly...if this is a "process", there has to be progress and at this point we I aren't seeing progress.

Fixed the pronoun for you... grammar is up to you...

[Bob806]

Regarding play calling and the Red Zone...why do the Browns never ever use the TE? Play action, TE runs right under the goal posts, it's normally a TD. I don't think we've run that play since Ozzie retired. Put it in the dam playbook.

[wargograw]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Just struck me that there is another approach... the football equivalent of MLB's "Bench Coach". Kind of a chief strategist on the field to handle the time outs, challenges, etc. The active, yet 2ndary, HC bits that compete for time/attention with OC time.

There's a former coach for Boston College on the local sports radio that calls this the "dumba** coach" because he prevents the HC from looking like one.

[The Gipper]

28 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

Regarding play calling and the Red Zone...why do the Browns never ever use the TE? Play action, TE runs right under the goal posts, it's normally a TD. I don't think we've run that play since Ozzie retired. Put it in the dam playbook.

Because Hue is stupid.

[Nero]

 

Well, I watched a video that I liked about top 5 redzone plays used by almost every team in the NFL. It's in Spanish, but if you silence it, it is pretty explanatory. 

 

[The Gipper]

13 minutes ago, Nero said:

 

Well, I watched a video that I liked about top 5 redzone plays used by almost every team in the NFL. It's in Spanish, but if you silence it, it is pretty explanatory. 

 

I noticed that in not one play did they show the Browns being succesful....because Hue apparently has no clue how to run a successful red zone offense......BUT you certainly saw the Browns being the team being burned on several occasions.