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Tacosman

Wentz Goff and Mariotta

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1 hour ago, wargograw said:

Except that he would suck if he were here. That’s the point. Don’t deflect. The surrounding cast is far, far better in Philly. And in LA. And in Tennessee. People need to shut up about these guys already. 

you don't get it- he's a much much better player than the guys we have.  So while he may not have 23 tds or whatever it is, he'd still be playing much better.  Because thats what better players do.  This continued bs about how we shouldnt get elite players because they may not be as good here because our other players suck is the most insane thing I've ever read.  Carson Wentz is a very good qb right now.  Period.  Our team needs very good players.  period.  

And Philadephia's skill players, especially at wide reciever, are mostly a so-so ensemble class.  Their offensive line, especially before peters went down, was pretty solid.  But you know who else's offensive line(before JT went down) was supposedly pretty solid too and cost a damn fortune?  Yes, the cleveland browns.....

If you think philly is loaded on offense outside of qb, you havent looked.  They arent.  

finally, we *ARE* going to likely take a qb high in the draft this year, which kind of goes against your point.  Because the talent level on offense certainly isn't any better than it was 2 years ago(its probably even worse), so if we couldn't pull the trigger then because of concerns about supporting talent around a high draft pick why would we pull the trigger now(which we will)?  

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20 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Browns Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta, who never worked in football prior to being hired as Cleveland’s front office #2, justified passing on Wentz because they were convinced he would never be even a top 20 quarterback:

I think the hardest part, and where we have to stay the most disciplined, as much as you want a player, you can't invent him if he doesn't exist. In a given year, there may be two or three NFL-ready quarterbacks at the college level. In another year, there literally may be zero. There just may be not be anybody in that year who's good enough to be a top 20 quarterback in the NFL.

Even though you have a desperate need for one, you have to resist the temptation of taking that guy just because you have a need if you don't believe he's one of those 20 guys at the end of the day. I think that's the hardest part, just maintaining your discipline because you have the need. That's what we did this year.

also, sashi added :

High-value draft picks in the first couple rounds are tremendously valuable. We have a long way to go to get our roster where it needs to be. We understand that and so this is a great opportunity to add a player and add another player next year that we hope, again, will be another impact player for us. So it's really for us a two-for-one and where we're coming from on our roster that's valuable.

But.....here we go....these guys are trying to do talent evaluation by Math.   They are not talent evaluators...yet they think their numbers can do that for them.

What I did not hear from these guys is what at least Carmen Policy said. Policy said "I am not a football talent evaluator, I deal with the business. I feel it is my job to hire good football talent evaluators".  

Never once here have you heard Depo and Sachi say that they are relying on their scouts and pro personell people to evaluate the talent.   Perhaps they even ignore them.   

So, yes, I think we need a football guy....a real talent evaluator, in charge of the draft.  These two mooks can have their input. (or what ever analytics geeks replace them can have it.....as analytics WILL continue to be used).  They just cannot be the be all and end all as they are now.

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20 hours ago, stillmotion said:

There's a  difference..... our front office didn't think he was going to be good. They missed on a prospect. It happens and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at missing once. Trading down and not taking Watson or Hooker did make me mad.... (and please don't try to argue that they're injured now because they suck. they are good prospects). If we trade down next year, I can't justify what we're doing anymore. Honestly I'd be cool if we at least take a quarterback by our second pick in the first round. Barkley and Baker Mayfield is what I want now.

I think that would just be a repeat of the TR/Weeden year. 

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Aside from his kickoff returns and one big run vs Ohio State, I don't think Barkley has done very much over the past several weeks. Nobody here thinks he's overhyped?

 

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11 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

Aside from his kickoff returns and one big run vs Ohio State, I don't think Barkley has done very much over the past several weeks. Nobody here thinks he's overhyped?

 

I don't think he is overhyped, no.  I DONT want him though as a high first round pick just because he's a rb though.  I don't want any rb as a first round high pick. 

Whoever is picking next year needs to take Darnold if he comes out as the first pick. 

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2 hours ago, Tacosman said:

you don't get it- he's a much much better player than the guys we have.  So while he may not have 23 tds or whatever it is, he'd still be playing much better.  Because thats what better players do.  This continued bs about how we shouldnt get elite players because they may not be as good here because our other players suck is the most insane thing I've ever read.  Carson Wentz is a very good qb right now.  Period.  Our team needs very good players.  period.  

And Philadephia's skill players, especially at wide reciever, are mostly a so-so ensemble class.  Their offensive line, especially before peters went down, was pretty solid.  But you know who else's offensive line(before JT went down) was supposedly pretty solid too and cost a damn fortune?  Yes, the cleveland browns.....

If you think philly is loaded on offense outside of qb, you havent looked.  They arent.  

finally, we *ARE* going to likely take a qb high in the draft this year, which kind of goes against your point.  Because the talent level on offense certainly isn't any better than it was 2 years ago(its probably even worse), so if we couldn't pull the trigger then because of concerns about supporting talent around a high draft pick why would we pull the trigger now(which we will)?  

Exactly T. War hasn't been watching much of the Eagles. The difference between Wentz and Kizer now is almost sickening to watch. Even rookie year, he was better. Carson can throw end zone fades, and is generally accurate with his passes. Watched almost all of the Bengals- Jags game (interrupted by tornado warnings) and hell- I'd even take Andy Dalton or GASP!! Blake Bortles over the garbage we have playing QB for us right now. 

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9 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Exactly T. War hasn't been watching much of the Eagles. The difference between Wentz and Kizer now is almost sickening to watch. Even rookie year, he was better. Carson can throw end zone fades, and is generally accurate with his passes. Watched almost all of the Bengals- Jags game (interrupted by tornado warnings) and hell- I'd even take Andy Dalton or GASP!! Blake Bortles over the garbage we have playing QB for us right now. 

Now you've gone too far.  Bloke Bartles is horrible.    Andy Dalton is very average (better than what we have for sure but still not the guy we should be looking for) Wentz and Goff were incredible yesterday.  We need a guy like that of our own.   Hopefully theres' one coming next season.

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I don't understand the logic of "he wouldn't have that many TD's here so it's a waste of a pick" 

Yeah, no Sheet. He wouldn't win as many games either, but for damn sure he's a great QB and he'll be consistently improving and makes the entire team better simply by being there. Any of them would be heads and tails above anything the Browns have had in decades. Watch what happens to the offense in Houston now that Watson is gone. I can almost guarantee their scoring drops off and their wins drop off. Great QB's make the team better, they attract other good offensive players and/or coaches, and they help turn a team around. 

Has drafting non elite prospects worked one bit? The record clearly shows NO. 

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34 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Now you've gone too far.  Bloke Bartles is horrible.    Andy Dalton is very average (better than what we have for sure but still not the guy we should be looking for) Wentz and Goff were incredible yesterday.  We need a guy like that of our own.   Hopefully theres' one coming next season.

Agreed we need a top guy, but-   

Ahem...  Bortles against the Bengals...   24\38, 63%, 259 yards, 1 TD, Rate= 92.  LOL maybe an aberration, but not really if you look at his season stats- they aren't that much different....  

Kizer ever has a game like that, it will be called "vast improvement".  :)   

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16 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

That Texans pick could conceivably fall into the top 10. Their defense is banged up and they are going to struggle to outscore people.

Which means the Browns could end up with four picks in the top 40-45.

Hopefully the guys picking those players are not the same idiots picking them now

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17 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Our WRs are practice squad guys...

I think the Eagles beat that

And the folks behind the rebuild are the same ones who drafted a Sheet ton of guys who are CFL level. This is my gripe. The idea of building a team and then inserting the rookie QB is good if the people making the picks can be trusted to build a team that could ever support the QB. I don't think they can. 

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2 hours ago, hoorta said:

Agreed we need a top guy, but-   

Ahem...  Bortles against the Bengals...   24\38, 63%, 259 yards, 1 TD, Rate= 92.  LOL maybe an aberration, but not really if you look at his season stats- they aren't that much different....  

Kizer ever has a game like that, it will be called "vast improvement".  :)   

His season stats are looking better because he's had Fournette carrying the offense and he's just "managing the game".  Chris Ivory yesterday looked like Jim Brown.  Now, it could be said that Kizer could manage the game as well we don't have a RB as good as Fournette on the roster and also coach Huey doesn't seem to like to run the ball that often, despite having a rookie QB who could use the offense being a bit simplified.

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10 hours ago, wargograw said:

Except that he would suck if he were here. That’s the point. Don’t deflect. The surrounding cast is far, far better in Philly. And in LA. And in Tennessee. People need to shut up about these guys already. 

That logic doesn't make any sense. We can't say how good Wentz or Goff would be here because we just don't know. The surround casts are better different places because they spend more money than Jimmy does. Our offensive line is better than the Eagles, and most offensive lines though. The Eagles have a better WR corp.

but Wentz is a better QB than any QB on the Browns roster.

Therefore, Wentz would make the Browns better. How much better? We can speculate, but Definitely, better.

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16 hours ago, Tacosman said:

you don't get it- he's a much much better player than the guys we have.  So while he may not have 23 tds or whatever it is, he'd still be playing much better.  Because thats what better players do.  This continued bs about how we shouldnt get elite players because they may not be as good here because our other players suck is the most insane thing I've ever read.  Carson Wentz is a very good qb right now.  Period.  Our team needs very good players.  period.  

And Philadephia's skill players, especially at wide reciever, are mostly a so-so ensemble class.  Their offensive line, especially before peters went down, was pretty solid.  But you know who else's offensive line(before JT went down) was supposedly pretty solid too and cost a damn fortune?  Yes, the cleveland browns.....

If you think philly is loaded on offense outside of qb, you havent looked.  They arent.  

finally, we *ARE* going to likely take a qb high in the draft this year, which kind of goes against your point.  Because the talent level on offense certainly isn't any better than it was 2 years ago(its probably even worse), so if we couldn't pull the trigger then because of concerns about supporting talent around a high draft pick why would we pull the trigger now(which we will)?  

No, you think he's "a much better player than the guys we have," because you've seen him play with HIS surrounding cast. If he had come into the league playing with ours, he'd just be another guy in our QB room. Nothing special. Yes, our team needs very good players. Yes, our fans would have wanted Wentz run off by now. It's that simple.

Philly has Alshon Jeffery and Zach Ertz. Please stop this canard that they're so-so, especially compared to us. They also have better backs than we do. Better blocking from the TE position, etc. 

14 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

Aside from his kickoff returns and one big run vs Ohio State, I don't think Barkley has done very much over the past several weeks. Nobody here thinks he's overhyped?

 

I've only been on the mountaintop saying it since pretty much day 1...

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I see that the Packers pretty much suck without their QB now. Too bad that we don't even have a QB to lose

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12 hours ago, stillmotion said:

That logic doesn't make any sense. We can't say how good Wentz or Goff would be here because we just don't know. The surround casts are better different places because they spend more money than Jimmy does. Our offensive line is better than the Eagles, and most offensive lines though. The Eagles have a better WR corp.

but Wentz is a better QB than any QB on the Browns roster.

Therefore, Wentz would make the Browns better. How much better? We can speculate, but Definitely, better.

We Browns fans should not bring up guys who the Browns current front office could have drafted because it wouldn't matter because the surrounding cast - that this front office has not improved - is bad.

But any talk of replacing front office who missed on talented QBs and providing a surrounding cast is knee-jerk idiocy at it's best.

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7 hours ago, wargograw said:

No, you think he's "a much better player than the guys we have," because you've seen him play with HIS surrounding cast. If he had come into the league playing with ours, he'd just be another guy in our QB room. Nothing special. Yes, our team needs very good players. Yes, our fans would have wanted Wentz run off by now. It's that simple.

Philly has Alshon Jeffery and Zach Ertz. Please stop this canard that they're so-so, especially compared to us. They also have better backs than we do. Better blocking from the TE position, etc. 

I've only been on the mountaintop saying it since pretty much day 1...

Yet Wentz made Philly's backup Tight End look like a stud.

I'd trade Kizer for Wentz in a heartbeat.

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43 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

Yet Wentz made Philly's backup Tight End look like a stud.

I'd trade Kizer for Wentz in a heartbeat.

Kizer, Kessler, Hogan and basically anyone else they want from our roster I'd trade for Wentz. 

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Just now, Mark O said:

Kizer, Kessler, Hogan and basically anyone else they want from our roster I'd trade for Wentz. 

We don't have anyone as good as Wentz

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Just now, stillmotion said:

We don't have anyone as good as Wentz

I was packaging all 3 of those guys and then they can pick anyone else off the roster with maybe the exception of Garrett.

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On 10/30/2017 at 9:47 PM, wargograw said:

We've built a really good offensive line and defense...

A really good defense doesn't go 0-8.   Soon to be 0-9 because there's no way this team is going into Detroit and winning. 

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How the Shmuck can Sashi and his nimrods still have a job after they passed on two really good QBs..

Should have drafted Carson Wentz

But we traded back and Browns'd up the 2016 draft.. 

Should have drafted Watson

But we traded back and Browns'd up the 2017 draft..

I wonder who we trade down and pass up next year... Baker Mayfield? Josh Rosen? Saquon Barkley?

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On 10/29/2017 at 10:12 PM, MLD Woody said:

You build a team for the QB first, then get the QB.

thank god we got peppers tho.

"da peppers Sammy, da pepers.....then you slice the garlic really thin with a razor blade? yeah frankie pull it out ur butt! we got the sausage and da peppers.da peppers." now all we need is 52 guys. just 52. cuz i'm comin back in over dey."

fuggin joke since '99.

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On 10/31/2017 at 12:47 AM, wargograw said:

Almost 20 years of it now, but keep telling yourself that.

We've built a really good offensive line and defense...

That really good defense is 28th in giving up points...maybe you should keep telling yourself that. 

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