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Tacosman

Wentz Goff and Mariotta

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12 hours ago, stillmotion said:

That logic doesn't make any sense. We can't say how good Wentz or Goff would be here because we just don't know. The surround casts are better different places because they spend more money than Jimmy does. Our offensive line is better than the Eagles, and most offensive lines though. The Eagles have a better WR corp.

but Wentz is a better QB than any QB on the Browns roster.

Therefore, Wentz would make the Browns better. How much better? We can speculate, but Definitely, better.

We Browns fans should not bring up guys who the Browns current front office could have drafted because it wouldn't matter because the surrounding cast - that this front office has not improved - is bad.

But any talk of replacing front office who missed on talented QBs and providing a surrounding cast is knee-jerk idiocy at it's best.

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7 hours ago, wargograw said:

No, you think he's "a much better player than the guys we have," because you've seen him play with HIS surrounding cast. If he had come into the league playing with ours, he'd just be another guy in our QB room. Nothing special. Yes, our team needs very good players. Yes, our fans would have wanted Wentz run off by now. It's that simple.

Philly has Alshon Jeffery and Zach Ertz. Please stop this canard that they're so-so, especially compared to us. They also have better backs than we do. Better blocking from the TE position, etc. 

I've only been on the mountaintop saying it since pretty much day 1...

Yet Wentz made Philly's backup Tight End look like a stud.

I'd trade Kizer for Wentz in a heartbeat.

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43 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

Yet Wentz made Philly's backup Tight End look like a stud.

I'd trade Kizer for Wentz in a heartbeat.

Kizer, Kessler, Hogan and basically anyone else they want from our roster I'd trade for Wentz. 

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Just now, stillmotion said:

We don't have anyone as good as Wentz

I was packaging all 3 of those guys and then they can pick anyone else off the roster with maybe the exception of Garrett.

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On 10/30/2017 at 9:47 PM, wargograw said:

We've built a really good offensive line and defense...

A really good defense doesn't go 0-8.   Soon to be 0-9 because there's no way this team is going into Detroit and winning. 

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How the Shmuck can Sashi and his nimrods still have a job after they passed on two really good QBs..

Should have drafted Carson Wentz

But we traded back and Browns'd up the 2016 draft.. 

Should have drafted Watson

But we traded back and Browns'd up the 2017 draft..

I wonder who we trade down and pass up next year... Baker Mayfield? Josh Rosen? Saquon Barkley?

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On 10/29/2017 at 10:12 PM, MLD Woody said:

You build a team for the QB first, then get the QB.

thank god we got peppers tho.

"da peppers Sammy, da pepers.....then you slice the garlic really thin with a razor blade? yeah frankie pull it out ur butt! we got the sausage and da peppers.da peppers." now all we need is 52 guys. just 52. cuz i'm comin back in over dey."

fuggin joke since '99.

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On 10/31/2017 at 12:47 AM, wargograw said:

Almost 20 years of it now, but keep telling yourself that.

We've built a really good offensive line and defense...

That really good defense is 28th in giving up points...maybe you should keep telling yourself that. 

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20 minutes ago, miktoxic said:

thank god we got peppers tho.

"da peppers Sammy, da pepers.....then you slice the garlic really thin with a razor blade? yeah frankie pull it out ur butt! we got the sausage and da peppers.da peppers." now all we need is 52 guys. just 52. cuz i'm comin back in over dey."

fuggin joke since '99.

I would like to see the Youtube blurb on that.

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3 hours ago, Mark O said:

I was packaging all 3 of those guys and then they can pick anyone else off the roster with maybe the exception of Garrett.

would you trade garrett for wentz straight up?

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11 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

would you trade garrett for wentz straight up?

Yes i would

  • Upvote 2

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22 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

would you trade garrett for wentz straight up?

And then Garrett will turn into Lawrence Taylor without the drug issues and Wentz will throw for 450 yards and 4 TD's in his first game and then break his leg and have his right arm disconnect from his shoulder in his 2nd game and never play again.

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13 hours ago, wargograw said:

No, you think he's "a much better player than the guys we have," because you've seen him play with HIS surrounding cast. If he had come into the league playing with ours, he'd just be another guy in our QB room. Nothing special. Yes, our team needs very good players. Yes, our fans would have wanted Wentz run off by now. It's that simple.

Philly has Alshon Jeffery and Zach Ertz. Please stop this canard that they're so-so, especially compared to us. They also have better backs than we do. Better blocking from the TE position, etc. 

 

lol, you're engaging in troll level behavior at this point.  Your argument is so ridiculous because it's set up that you can't possibly be wrong.  Under this ridiculous pretense of yours, ANY AND EVERY qb, no matter who great or otherworldly, can be written off as useless to us and "would suck" here.  Stop trolling the board.  There is no point in discussing this with you if you keep up this ridiculous line of thought.  Hell under this line of thought why should we even bother to draft a qb high 2 years later....since our wide recievers still suck.  Oh and your failure to mention our expensive offensive line(which is half the supporting cast for a qb and the most important part some would say for a young qb) is noted.  

As for philly, yes...their skill players on the whole are so-so.  Jeffrey is ok, but he didn't garner a lot of attention this offseason and couldnt get a long term deal from anyone.  It's been an ENSEMBLE and rag tag bunch at wide reciever for the most part for philly.  Look at who he threw to last game when Ertz didnt even play. He's been targeting relatively unknowns most of the year.....and been succeeding with them.  But even arguing just how good or not good the philly wideouts are misses the point(first paragraph above)....you were saying the same crap about watson though and the texans.  Well guess what....we've seen a game and a half of a browns level qb(Savage), and do you note any big difference between the offense with Browns level qb play and Watson?  I'm sure you will deny or deflect that as well and just post the same useless "oh good qbs would suck here" bit, which is the lamest argument ever because it can't be supported or refuted.  

Stop trolling this board.  

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4 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I would like to see the Youtube blurb on that.

my version of the guys in jail in 'goodfellas'. used to make sausage in peppers in the tin lasagna pans and throw on grill every saturday. bartender was uki but loved 'the peppers.' 'the peppers'.

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On 10/31/2017 at 12:47 AM, wargograw said:

Almost 20 years of it now, but keep telling yourself that.

We've built a really good offensive line and defense...

You're a real tool.

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13 hours ago, Mark O said:

A really good defense doesn't go 0-8.   

Says who? It is right now.

12 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

That really good defense is 28th in giving up points...maybe you should keep telling yourself that. 

That happens when your offense sucks and games get outta hand. No big deal. 

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14 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Yet Wentz made Philly's backup Tight End look like a stud.

I'd trade Kizer for Wentz in a heartbeat.

And had we drafted Wentz last year and they drafted Kizer last year,  you'd trade for Kizer in a heartbeat.

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8 hours ago, Tacosman said:

lol, you're engaging in troll level behavior at this point.  Your argument is so ridiculous because it's set up that you can't possibly be wrong.  Under this ridiculous pretense of yours, ANY AND EVERY qb, no matter who great or otherworldly, can be written off as useless to us and "would suck" here.  Stop trolling the board.  There is no point in discussing this with you if you keep up this ridiculous line of thought.  Hell under this line of thought why should we even bother to draft a qb high 2 years later....since our wide recievers still suck.  Oh and your failure to mention our expensive offensive line(which is half the supporting cast for a qb and the most important part some would say for a young qb) is noted.  

As for philly, yes...their skill players on the whole are so-so.  Jeffrey is ok, but he didn't garner a lot of attention this offseason and couldnt get a long term deal from anyone.  It's been an ENSEMBLE and rag tag bunch at wide reciever for the most part for philly.  Look at who he threw to last game when Ertz didnt even play. He's been targeting relatively unknowns most of the year.....and been succeeding with them.  But even arguing just how good or not good the philly wideouts are misses the point(first paragraph above)....you were saying the same crap about watson though and the texans.  Well guess what....we've seen a game and a half of a browns level qb(Savage), and do you note any big difference between the offense with Browns level qb play and Watson?  I'm sure you will deny or deflect that as well and just post the same useless "oh good qbs would suck here" bit, which is the lamest argument ever because it can't be supported or refuted.  

Stop trolling this board.  

Our offensive line is good. Never denied that.

"Hell under this line of thought why should we even bother to draft a qb high 2 years later....since our wide recievers still suck."

Because we could draft/sign new, better wide receivers maybe?

Watson might suck here. Savage just plain sucks.

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2 hours ago, wargograw said:

Because we could draft/sign new, better wide receivers maybe?

 

Like Sashi will spend money. He'd rather trade Jimmy's cap space money for more draft picks to trade for more draft picks to aquire even more draft picks to play draft pick monopoly

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4 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Like Sashi will spend money. He'd rather trade Jimmy's cap space money for more draft picks to trade for more draft picks to aquire even more draft picks to play draft pick monopoly

Well alrighty then! :lol: 

 

  • Haha 1

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5 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Like Sashi will spend money. He'd rather trade Jimmy's cap space money for more draft picks to trade for more draft picks to aquire even more draft picks to play draft pick monopoly

If you're criticizing the Osweiler trade you're even more ignorant than I thought.

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Nothing matters until we get our QB, and this is something everyone already knows.  What makes it worse, our front office has passed on several "franchise QB's", and now we're stuck watching these guys play at a high level every week (well, except for Watson now).  Further, we got beat by Wentz last year, and beat again this year by Watson.  That's just rubbing it in a little, don't you think?

Adding more fuel to the flame is the fact Kizer (our hopeful franchise QB) isn't just playing poorly, he's playing at an all-time TERRIBLE level.  I can think of only 3 TD passes, and probably a dozen that he missed.  We know about the turnovers, and I will admit people like Britt and Ricardo haven't done him any favors, but Britt and Ricardo aren't the ones that threw the ball 8 feet behind Higgins, or 7 feet too high when we absolutely HAD to have points.  What's so frustrating is that even MEDIOCRE QB play would've been good enough to win a game or two, and we can't even get THAT.  Meanwhile, Wentz and Watson are blowing up the league.  Wentz leads the league on 3rd down...doesn't THAT sound nice?

Browns fans are beyond frustrated, and what's worse, we have NO confidence in our current regime to even get the QB situation right.  Once again we are blessed with an extraordinary amount of early picks, and now that Watson is out, it looks like the Texans' first and second rounder will be gems indeed.  Do we REALLY want our current collections of butt-faced idiots making those picks?  Remember how excited everyone was when we drafted Peppers?  You think they're excited NOW?  Yeah, he's a rookie, but he's done absolutely NOTHING to help this football team.  Nothing on offense, defense, OR special teams.  He's just kind of....there.  And recently he's been hurt and our defense seems to be playing BETTER...how's that for depressing?

I want to give Kizer the benefit of the doubt, but I just can't.  I realize he's young, but what does "young" have to do with completely missing open targets?  Is age and experience going to somehow increase his woeful accuracy?  It wouldn't surprise me to see us clean house in the QB room this offseason.  We bring in a veteran, we draft a QB in the first, AND third round, and we tell Kizer that if he wants to make the roster, he better outshine everyone else or he can pack his bags.  I don't expect my rookie QB to set the league on fire, but I DO expect him to be able to throw touchdown passes.  

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22 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Nothing matters until we get our QB, and this is something everyone already knows.  What makes it worse, our front office has passed on several "franchise QB's", and now we're stuck watching these guys play at a high level every week (well, except for Watson now).  Further, we got beat by Wentz last year, and beat again this year by Watson.  That's just rubbing it in a little, don't you think?

Adding more fuel to the flame is the fact Kizer (our hopeful franchise QB) isn't just playing poorly, he's playing at an all-time TERRIBLE level.  I can think of only 3 TD passes, and probably a dozen that he missed.  We know about the turnovers, and I will admit people like Britt and Ricardo haven't done him any favors, but Britt and Ricardo aren't the ones that threw the ball 8 feet behind Higgins, or 7 feet too high when we absolutely HAD to have points.  What's so frustrating is that even MEDIOCRE QB play would've been good enough to win a game or two, and we can't even get THAT.  Meanwhile, Wentz and Watson are blowing up the league.  Wentz leads the league on 3rd down...doesn't THAT sound nice?

Browns fans are beyond frustrated, and what's worse, we have NO confidence in our current regime to even get the QB situation right.  Once again we are blessed with an extraordinary amount of early picks, and now that Watson is out, it looks like the Texans' first and second rounder will be gems indeed.  Do we REALLY want our current collections of butt-faced idiots making those picks?  Remember how excited everyone was when we drafted Peppers?  You think they're excited NOW?  Yeah, he's a rookie, but he's done absolutely NOTHING to help this football team.  Nothing on offense, defense, OR special teams.  He's just kind of....there.  And recently he's been hurt and our defense seems to be playing BETTER...how's that for depressing?

I want to give Kizer the benefit of the doubt, but I just can't.  I realize he's young, but what does "young" have to do with completely missing open targets?  Is age and experience going to somehow increase his woeful accuracy?  It wouldn't surprise me to see us clean house in the QB room this offseason.  We bring in a veteran, we draft a QB in the first, AND third round, and we tell Kizer that if he wants to make the roster, he better outshine everyone else or he can pack his bags.  I don't expect my rookie QB to set the league on fire, but I DO expect him to be able to throw touchdown passes.  

Actually, the Browns are making good draft picks. They missed on the QB (yes, i know, cornerstone, etc) but this team as a whole is WAAAAAY better than when this current FO took over. The record does not indicate it, but the team has significantly more talent. Sashi and Co. have said a million times, they expect to compete year 3. They will have a team that can compete and be good for a very long time but they needed to build the talent base up. This is why it takes so long. They don't want the browns to just make the playoffs. They want to Win the Super Bowl. Sure, they could build a team to go 8-8 and lose in the first round of the playoffs. Drive south on 71 and pull into Paul Brown Stadium because that's what that team looks like. They never compete for a title. This team has a talent to continue to develop, they have money and picks to use for the future. They are  now in a great situation to become a sustainable franchise. 

This team should have 4 wins this year. I put that all on Hue. His game management and play calling have been atrocious and that's part of the reason why Kizer has looked so terrible. Watson and Wentz last year were having plays called to their strengths. Let them learn and develop. Hue has done none of that. Did you notice in the MN game when Kizer started 9/9 for 100 yards or so and then Hue completely changed the game plan? THAT IS THE PROBLEM. I am NOT saying to Fire Hue because I think players really do enjoy playing for him. But he needs someone else such as an OC to play call and game plan for him. 

In response to the last paragraph, the answer is, yes, age and experience mean EVERYTHING to help increase accuracy. There is a reason Drew Brees was terrible in SD and is elite now. Tom Brady has only gotten better. Aaron Rodgers is next level. And my personal favorite for this topic, Jared Goff. Experience helps to slow the game down for young qb's. This is why play calling is so crucial. The college game is so much different than the pro game. Defenses are so much more complex. There is a reason you are better year 2 in whatever job you do, than year 1. you learn and grow. Kizer has not helped himself with some of his throws, I will give you that. But let him develop for god sake. He is still learning. IMOP, he looks years ahead of Brett Hundley in GB and that guy has been in the league for 4 years. Kizer's talent is there, he is just scratching the surface and the Browns have to be patient enough to develop it. 

This team is going to turn heads the second half. my prediction is 4-4 with an outside chance of 5-3. They needed time to grow and get better together as a team. Kizer is going to be much better the second half, i'm not saying elite, but he will show enough promise to give people pause about bringing in another qb this offseason. 

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9 hours ago, wargograw said:

Our offensive line is good. Never denied that.

"Hell under this line of thought why should we even bother to draft a qb high 2 years later....since our wide recievers still suck."

Because we could draft/sign new, better wide receivers maybe?

Watson might suck here. Savage just plain sucks.

so our offensive line, which is half the supporting cast for a young qb(and MUCH MUCH better than houston's) is good.  Glad you acknowledge that.

As for drafting/signing new wide recievers, yeah we could....we could also do that when we freaking could have drafted wentz.  Since we would have still been a ton under the cap.  The holes in your arguments are 3 miles wide.  

And yes savage does "just plain suck".  So do our qbs.  Hence my perfect example of an offense that was rolling along with a qb playing well(watson) vs one that is sucking with a crappy qb on the level of ours(Savage).  

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9 hours ago, wargograw said:

Says who? It is right now.

That happens when your offense sucks and games get outta hand. No big deal. 

again you just say crap without any knowledge/awareness of the data, and then when the data completely contradicts your troll-level bs arguments you just make more shite up.  In this particular case you've done it again as a quick look at our 1st half points allowed this year relative to league average will show that our defense has given up too many points well before games have gotten out of hand.  but you don't care about this because you're just trolling.

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