Wentz Goff and Mariotta

[tiamat63]

6 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

I didn't say he was,  but his slender frame was a concern for lots of people in the draft. I think people had similar concerns about Goff. 

We'll see how it plays out.

Interesting that the can't miss pick from that draft (Andrew Luck) also can't stay on the field.  He's been battered cuz they have no OL. 

 

 

 

Generally when you take repeated shot after shot from players of 250lbs + on a weekly basis, Iron Man himself wouldn't be staying on the field.   

The Colts ownership and front office are the reason why Luck is in his current status.   They owe him a deep apology.  

[Unsympathetic]

2 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

You take a top rated QB and build a team around him

The only winners from the last decade who even partially followed that script were the Gints. 

Packers and Ravens and Steelers took QB's in the first but they already had the team built.

Broncos and Saints already had the team and brought over the QB as a FA

Seahawks had the team and didn't take a top-rated QB.

 

Exactly what team is your plan modeled after?  "Anything Else" is exactly how the teams who have won the SB have done it.

Blame analytics all you want -- but the reality is that ALL teams employ analytics in all their decisions.  If a "football guy" assigns numerical ratings to players and the team then drafts based on those numbers......... is that analytics or is that a "football guy" making a "football decision" ?

[SD_Tom]

2 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

Generally when you take repeated shot after shot from players of 250lbs + on a weekly basis, Iron Man himself wouldn't be staying on the field.   

The Colts ownership and front office are the reason why Luck is in his current status.   They owe him a deep apology.  

But OL are just fatasses! They don't help teams! Anyone can be OL! - ghoolie

[Mark O]

12 hours ago, hoorta said:

I had to edit it to put the obligatory sarcasm in PINK. Suckin' for Sam... 

 

Sam aint comin out.   You need to find a new one.

[flyingfooldoug]

38 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

The only winners from the last decade who even partially followed that script were the Gints. 

Packers and Ravens and Steelers took QB's in the first but they already had the team built.

Broncos and Saints already had the team and brought over the QB as a FA

Seahawks had the team and didn't take a top-rated QB.

 

Exactly what team is your plan modeled after?  "Anything Else" is exactly how the teams who have won the SB have done it.

Blame analytics all you want -- but the reality is that ALL teams employ analytics in all their decisions.  If a "football guy" assigns numerical ratings to players and the team then drafts based on those numbers......... is that analytics or is that a "football guy" making a "football decision" ?

Sure all teams use analytics. They have to. But they use other things besides numerology to gauge a young player's capacity to play the pro game at a pro level. For that it takes football sense. 

And FWIW Our Browns are just one loss away from history....side note, Bosa just set a record too.

 This FO stinks! Top to bottom, side to side, the reek has never been worse.

[SD_Tom]

Bosa set a record,  zeke is second best to Dickerson... 

And watson and Wentz have both thrown more tds in a single game (more than once)  than Kizer has all year. 

Someone's head(s) better be rolling this season.  

Par for the course 

 

[jcam222]

There were many of us, myself included who were dead wrong about Watson. My god hes thrown as many TD's in 4 games as our guys throw in 2 seasons lol. Watching him and Wentz both make me sick to my stomach. It appears both of them are even bigger misses than Rothlisberger was. 

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, Mark O said:

 

Sam ain't comin out.   You need to find a new one.

So I've heard.... Afraid The Browns might draft him?  All in for Allen? (Josh hasn't impressed me enough) Haven't seen enough of Rosen to form an opinion, and that's going to be a tough one to come up with something. 

[Mark O]

Just now, hoorta said:

So I've heard.... Afraid The Browns might draft him?  All in for Allen? (Josh hasn't impressed me enough) Haven't seen enough of Rosen to form an opinion, and that's going to be a tough one to come up with something. 

Allen playing at Wyoming would concern me with the level of talent he's playing against.   But then that hasn't seemed to hurt Wentz much has it so far.  I haven't seen much of Rosen either to have an opinion.   Whoever it is....the guy needs to eat, sleep, and shit football and playing QB. 

[stillmotion]

We did take the biggest "project qb" in the draft in Kizer. WAY more of a project then even bortles was coming out.

It might take Kizer 3 years to be NFL ready. And he still might not pan out. So, we can leave him in at QB till 2020, but that's potentially 3 more losing seasons us fans will have to go through.

Watson and Hooker fell to us, but Sashi traded down.

If you need a QB, you have to take one. BUT

if the Browns take another "SLEEPER QB" in the late rounds next year, then i'll be completely through with this front office.

[The Gipper]

4 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

We did take the biggest "project qb" in the draft in Kizer. WAY more of a project then even bortles was coming out.

It might take Kizer 3 years to be NFL ready. And he still might not pan out. So, we can leave him in at QB till 2020, but that's potentially 3 more losing seasons us fans will have to go through.

Watson and Hooker fell to us, but Sashi traded down.

If you need a QB, you have to take one. BUT

if the Browns take another "SLEEPER QB" in the late rounds next year, then i'll be completely through with this front office.

I am not sure that you have to worry about Sashi having the final say on the draft next year.....and certainly NOT when it comes to picking a QB.

That will be what Peyton Manning will be for.

For, I am of the opinion that even if JH does not hire Peyton outright to be Team Pres. or DFO or the like, he WILL bring him on board to tell this FO who to draft at QB.  I think JH is tired of seeing these fuhucksticks screwing the pooch when it comes to that position. And he will make an overture to Peyton...and he will let Peyton decide what he wants to be with this team.

 

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, stillmotion said:

We did take the biggest "project qb" in the draft in Kizer. WAY more of a project then even bortles was coming out.

It might take Kizer 3 years to be NFL ready. And he still might not pan out. So, we can leave him in at QB till 2020, but that's potentially 3 more losing seasons us fans will have to go through.

Watson and Hooker fell to us, but Sashi traded down.

If you need a QB, you have to take one. BUT

if the Browns take another "SLEEPER QB" in the late rounds next year, then i'll be completely through with this front office.

You can take this one to the bank, bet the farm in Vegas. Kizer isn't getting 3 years. Suckitude at this rate will get everyone fired long before that.  Deshone is on a 8 game (or less) audition. The #1, first round pick is going to be a qb. We may even go the Redskins route and draft a sleeper in the 4th round just to be safe. Only think that changes this scenario is if the Browns make a big play in Free Agency for either Cousins or Garropolo. 

[TexasAg1969]

I wouldn't count out Darnold just yet. Being assured of the overall #1 spot can be very convincing. The risks involved in staying and getting hurt can outweigh everything when you already have that slot locked in now.

[wargograw]

On 10/29/2017 at 8:03 PM, Tacosman said:

there is absolutely no evidence to support any of this ridiculous speculation.  

 

Almost 20 years of it now, but keep telling yourself that.

On 10/29/2017 at 9:15 PM, Tacosman said:

this kind of thinking doesnt make any sense, and it DOESNT EVEN APPLY HERE because we are going to take a qb with this next high pick and we sure as hell havent built anything for the qb yet.  We're going to take Darnold or some other qb with our first pick in 5 months or whatever and thats fine....but we havent put anything around him.

We've built a really good offensive line and defense...

[miktoxic]

DOH!!

[Mark O]

At least we only had the chance to draft one of these stiffs.. 

[Tacosman]

the wentz trade is really astounding.  in a bad way.  

[stillmotion]

Browns Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta, who never worked in football prior to being hired as Cleveland’s front office #2, justified passing on Wentz because they were convinced he would never be even a top 20 quarterback:

I think the hardest part, and where we have to stay the most disciplined, as much as you want a player, you can't invent him if he doesn't exist. In a given year, there may be two or three NFL-ready quarterbacks at the college level. In another year, there literally may be zero. There just may be not be anybody in that year who's good enough to be a top 20 quarterback in the NFL.

Even though you have a desperate need for one, you have to resist the temptation of taking that guy just because you have a need if you don't believe he's one of those 20 guys at the end of the day. I think that's the hardest part, just maintaining your discipline because you have the need. That's what we did this year.

also, sashi added :

High-value draft picks in the first couple rounds are tremendously valuable. We have a long way to go to get our roster where it needs to be. We understand that and so this is a great opportunity to add a player and add another player next year that we hope, again, will be another impact player for us. So it's really for us a two-for-one and where we're coming from on our roster that's valuable.

[Tacosman]

hey we got corey coleman though

[stillmotion]

Basically the Browns didn't want to invest in a quarterback that won't work. They didn't want to reach for someone. They'd rather build the team and THEN get a quarterback.

They're doing it different from the standard way, and it might really be effective, or it could fail too, we won't find out till the "plan" is finished.

Every front office fails, but if Sashi and Depo fail to draft or get any reasonable quarterback next year, I think it's fair to say Jimmy will go crazy.

[Tacosman]

the eagles sure did reach for wentz at 2....

[stillmotion]

5 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

the eagles sure did reach for wentz at 2....

There's a  difference..... our front office didn't think he was going to be good. They missed on a prospect. It happens and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at missing once. Trading down and not taking Watson or Hooker did make me mad.... (and please don't try to argue that they're injured now because they suck. they are good prospects). If we trade down next year, I can't justify what we're doing anymore. Honestly I'd be cool if we at least take a quarterback by our second pick in the first round. Barkley and Baker Mayfield is what I want now.

[Mark O]

2 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

There's a  difference..... our front office didn't think he was going to be good. They missed on a prospect. It happens and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at missing once. Trading down and not taking Watson or Hooker did make me mad.... (and please don't try to argue that they're injured now because they suck. they are good prospects). If we trade down next year, I can't justify what we're doing anymore. Honestly I'd be cool if we at least take a quarterback by our second pick in the first round. Barkley and Baker Mayfield is what I want now.

Its a huge miss by the FO to not see the talent he had, but misses like that happen all the time.   I am with you.  Trading down at 12 when you need a QB and you have a really really good QB prospect sitting there, trading down is a bad move.

[Tacosman]

1 minute ago, stillmotion said:

There's a  difference..... our front office didn't think he was going to be good. They missed on a prospect. It happens and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at missing once. 

 but that was a sentinel event miss.  Its really a bad call more than anything.  Because you can play the 'miss' game on any number of good players and any number of teams, but this was one of those rare cases where it was really an up or down on a specific player at a specific spot

[stillmotion]

4 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Its a huge miss by the FO to not see the talent he had, but misses like that happen all the time.   I am with you.  Trading down at 12 when you need a QB and you have a really really good QB prospect sitting there, trading down is a bad move.

And it makes us look Kinda stupid. I have no problem with the Kizer or Kessler picks, but what the heck with the reassurance about them? What is with all the reassurance. Makes us look SO STUPID, like fools for listening to them. Depo's "Wentz isn't a top 20 QB", Hue's "trust me with kessler, he will be great". Hue's "RG3 made the earth shake". All of the Kizer hype. Just calm the heck down, have a bridge quarterback like the Jets are doing with Mccown, and most teams do and let the rookie learn if he isn't ready yet (cough Kizer cough). If Kizer is really their plan but Hue is afraid he'll be fired so benches him at half time, then thats a TOXIC environment to play in. Play the rookie out and let him learn, or figure out something different.

[stillmotion]

Remember when we played clipboard jesus last year? I didn't think our QB situation could EVER get lower than that. Hopefully i'm not wrong.

[Tacosman]

our qb situation now is no different than then

[miktoxic]

it's official. the browns are one loss worse better than SB champs (of past) NY giants.

but our defense is setting stats!!

goff? scmoff!

[Browns149]

39 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

Basically the Browns didn't want to invest in a quarterback that won't work. They didn't want to reach for someone. They'd rather build the team and THEN get a quarterback.

They're doing it different from the standard way, and it might really be effective, or it could fail too, we won't find out till the "plan" is finished.

Every front office fails, but if Sashi and Depo fail to draft or get any reasonable quarterback next year, I think it's fair to say Jimmy will go crazy.

Hopefully the “plan” is finished this off season. Trying to build a team and THEN get the Qb isn’t how it’s done. Teams get good WHEN they have a good Qb. Why does this team always think they can reinvent the wheel?

PLEASE HIRE SOMEONE THAT KNOWS HOW TO BUILD AN NFL TEAM!!!!

[D Bone]

16 minutes ago, miktoxic said:

it's official. the browns are one loss worse better than SB champs (of past) NY giants.

but our defense is setting stats!!

goff? scmoff!

Remember, during The Process the organization doesn't care about wins, just gathering more and higher draft picks..... makes ya feel all warm and fuzzy, don't it?