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LondonBrown

The... I am batting (maybe alone) for the front office thread

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Just now, Unsympathetic said:

News flash: Fighting between coaching and FO is going to happen in every org. Get over it. Ordinary misery is a good thing, snowflake.

AHAHHAHAHAHA, yeah i guess i should quit being a "snowflake" (let me guess, you're a republican) and accept the Browns record. I should accept that Jimmy went 1-23 and might blow up his plan. It's normal in every organization to expect to lose every game too?

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Far from it - you're the one whining about your inability to tolerate the pain of losing.

I won't wait for your non-emotional definition of progress, of course.

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1 minute ago, Unsympathetic said:

Far from it - you're the one whining about your inability to tolerate the pain of losing.

i'm stating that i don't understand how without a either a coach or F.O. (we're most likely losing one) the plan can move forward. How are people like you and war so certain when a fool like Jimmy at the top could easily scrap the plan tomorrow. When something goes wrong, I'd like to hear your apology that you were wrong blindly believing that Jimmy is a competent NFL owner.

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Show where I said explicitly that "Jimmy is a competent NFL owner"

Don't worry, I won't wait up for your apology.

But keep changing the topic - it's all you've got!

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1 minute ago, Unsympathetic said:

Show where I said explicitly that "Jimmy is a competent NFL owner"

Don't worry, I won't wait up for your apology.

But keep changing the topic - it's all you've got!

Because, you believe the owner is going to stick with a plan that much. you have faith in it. if sashi and depo get fired, your plan is done. If Hue is fired, we don't even have a coach to carry out the plan. Newsflash : One of them will happen soon.

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23 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

you believe the owner is going to stick with a plan 

Once again, stop projecting. You don't know what I think - this is now the second time you've been wrong about that in under a half hour.

 

But post away - Enjoy the interwebs!

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1 minute ago, Unsympathetic said:

Once again, stop projecting. You don't know what I think - this is now the second time you've been wrong about that in under a half hour.

 

But post away - Enjoy the interwebs!

well maybe if you understood my argument instead of calling everyone snowflakes and telling them to shutup.

Answer this then.

- How are you sure under the current situation the plan will likely work?

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1 hour ago, stillmotion said:

Answer this then.

- How are you sure under the current situation the plan will likely work?

That's the question that all of the "stay the course" people need to answer.    How are you so sure that the same guys who passed on multiple NFL stars in past drafts are going to suddenly start making the right choices? 

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2 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

Why is that [rejecting the non-improvement named McCarron] not good?

Zero to be gained by pissing draft picks into the wind if the "available talent" is a questionable application of the word "talent".  I do not ASSUME wins will magically arrive just because a guy whose wife is a model is taking the snaps.

The optics and reality of the entire org is WORSE when the draft picks are spent and the wins still don't come.

I've said elsewhere the non-trade for McCarron was a good thing. Too much draft capital for a marginal (if any upgrade). Garropolo is a different story however- IF he could have been gotten for one of our second round picks, and one of the extra ones we have in the 4th, 5th, and 6th rounds. Seriously, after what just transpired you don't think the FO is deliberately tanking for 2018? 

This is where the frustration comes in. We had THREE first round picks this year, and I don't think at this point any of them are busts. Kirksey, Shelton, and Collins are playing well on defense- and we're STILL 0-8. Happy, happy, joy, joy. I think everyone expected some improvement in the win column this year. Hue may still get his chance to jump in the Lake. BUT MHO is if Gordon comes back and plays to his pro bowl level, he may save Jackson from hypothermia. 

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I'm all for everyone having their own patience/trust levels and time tables, but a couple of the SunShine Brats - or maybe just 1 in particular, has a way of telling the rest of us that we are stupid for not trusting The Process because he just KNOWS it is going to work and we will contend for the playoffs sooner rather than later..... I believe he also said Johnny was our future, so there's that.... 

Just another mid season being a Browns fan...... Can't talk about wins, division wins, division championships and God forbid..... playoffs. Instead we get to watch the rest of the country make even more fun of us (as if that is even possible) for yesterday's DumbPhuck Gate.  

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, stillmotion said:

i'm stating that i don't understand how without a either a coach or F.O. (we're most likely losing one) the plan can move forward. How are people like you and war so certain when a fool like Jimmy at the top could easily scrap the plan tomorrow. When something goes wrong, I'd like to hear your apology that you were wrong blindly believing that Jimmy is a competent NFL owner.

Huh? What he and I are fighting for is for Jimmy NOT to listen to guys like you by scrapping the plan. 

 

This is just a weird post all around. We’re supposed to be against the plan based on the possibility it might get scrapped? Did you think that one through?

21 minutes ago, Mark O said:

That's the question that all of the "stay the course" people need to answer.    How are you so sure that the same guys who passed on multiple NFL stars in past drafts are going to suddenly start making the right choices? 

And how are you so sure that scrapping everyone is suddenly going to work, when we have plenty of evidence it won’t? You have no answer. 

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Why was Tom Savage starting ahead of Deshaun Watson less than two months ago? 

Hindsight is the ability to understand and realize something about an event after it has happened, although you did not understand or realize it at the time.
 
With hindsight, we'd all do things differently.

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11 minutes ago, wargograw said:

And how are you so sure that scrapping everyone is suddenly going to work, when we have plenty of evidence it won’t? You have no answer. 

Because it clearly isn't working.  1-23 shows me that the plan isn't working.  So you scrap the plan and start over.  If that one doesn't work, you scrap that one and start over until you find the one that works.  Kinda like what the Browns are doing at QB.   All of you who want to "stay the course"...does Kizer get 3 years at QB as well as you're willing to give the front office to finally pick good players? 

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12 minutes ago, wargograw said:

Huh? What he and I are fighting for is for Jimmy NOT to listen to guys like you by scrapping the plan. 

 

When the Shmuck did i ever say scrap the plan?

Jesus man..... everything is not YOU vs THEM. We don't have group think. I said the plan won't work because Jimmy is INCOMPETENT and FRUSTURATED. Sashi directly disobeyed him and his wife to save the plan (which I understand why he did it, but it's still directly disobeying your boss). Jimmy has a large ego. The F.O. hasn't proven Sheet YET. Doesn't mean the team won't be GREAT in the next few years. But HUE and the current F.O. can't coexist. Jimmy is going to choose one side and that's a fact. It's STUPID to think him choosing to get a QB with HUE over listening to the F.O. about NOT trading for A.J. doesn't merit any value.

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2 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Because it clearly isn't working.  1-23 shows me that the plan isn't working.  So you scrap the plan and start over.  If that one doesn't work, you scrap that one and start over until you find the one that works.  Kinda like what the Browns are doing at QB.   All of you who want to "stay the course"...does Kizer get 3 years at QB as well as you're willing to give the front office to finally pick good players? 

So let me get this straight. Your plan will work “because it clearly isn’t working”? How does that make any sense whatsoever? How’s that even coherent. 

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1 minute ago, stillmotion said:

When the Shmuck did i ever say scrap the plan?

Jesus man..... everything is not YOU vs THEM. We don't have group think. I said the plan won't work because Jimmy is INCOMPETENT and FRUSTURATED. Sashi directly disobeyed him and his wife to save the plan (which I understand why he did it, but it's still directly disobeying your boss). Jimmy has a large ego. The F.O. hasn't proven Sheet YET. Doesn't mean the team won't be GREAT in the next few years. But HUE and the current F.O. can't coexist. Jimmy is going to choose one side and that's a fact. It's STUPID to think him choosing to get a QB with HUE over listening to the F.O. about NOT trading for A.J. doesn't merit any value.

You have straight up posted asking for heads to roll, unless I’m misremembering. Don’t backtrack now. 

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3 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Because it clearly isn't working.  1-23 shows me that the plan isn't working.  So you scrap the plan and start over.  If that one doesn't work, you scrap that one and start over until you find the one that works.  Kinda like what the Browns are doing at QB.   All of you who want to "stay the course"...does Kizer get 3 years at QB as well as you're willing to give the front office to finally pick good players? 

The F.O. obviously needs to see eye-to-eye with the head coach for the plan to even possibly REMOTELY work. And clearly, Hue is not a fan anymore. The passing of Watson and giving him Kizer is probably killing the dude. That been said, Hue has underperformed the team and shouldn't of gone to jimmy instead of directly talking to the F.O.

The F.O. and coaches both reporting to Jimmy separate is just STUPID. They need to work together and be on the same page for it to work. I'm in favor of adding a GM for Sashi, the F.O., and coaches to report to, and then that GM reports to Jimmy.

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2 minutes ago, wargograw said:

So let me get this straight. Your plan will work “because it clearly isn’t working”? How does that make any sense whatsoever? How’s that even coherent. 

Yes it will eventually.   When something isn't working and only a sunshine pumper like yourself would possibly believe that a 1-23 record is somehow an indication of a successful plan,  the plan needs to be changed.  Try something different and after a couple of seasons if that isn't working, you make a change again.  Keep repeating until you find something that does work.  Just like what is being done at QB.  No one would continue to play a shitty QB for 3 seasons.  Why should we expect the same from a shitty front office or coaches?

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1 minute ago, Mark O said:

Yes it will eventually.   When something isn't working and only a sunshine pumper like yourself would possibly believe that a 1-23 record is somehow an indication of a successful plan,  the plan needs to be changed.  Try something different and after a couple of seasons if that isn't working, you make a change again.  Keep repeating until you find something that does work.  Just like what is being done at QB.  No one would continue to play a shitty QB for 3 seasons.  Why should we expect the same from a shitty front office or coaches?

So your plan hasn’t worked for 20 years and mine hasn’t for 2 but you think yours is superior. Okie dokie

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7 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Because it clearly isn't working.  1-23 shows me that the plan isn't working.  

Then you don’t really understand the plan sorry and the conversation is pretty pointless. They expected to lose until at least 2018, it was the entire point of the tear down. 

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1 minute ago, wargograw said:

You have straight up posted asking for heads to roll, unless I’m misremembering. Don’t backtrack now. 

I've said it's cowpoop we have to put up with this many losses and not seen enough progress on the field

I've said Hue has made some boneheaded decisions, and at this point I wouldn't care if we found a better coach

I've argued heavily that the F.O. currently hasn't proven at ALL the plan is headed in the right direction and will work.

but pull me up ONE post where I said fire all the front office or Sashi Brown.......

Sashi needs to be demoted and to report to a real GM because this situation is currently TOXIC.

So please, even after I told you this isn't all a "OH WE SHOULD FIRE EVERYONE" vs "THE MIGHTY FO DEFENDERS" and you still don't acknowledge that, consider that i'm just a Browns fans thats sick of toxic situations and afraid JIMMY IS INCOMPETENT which is my whole argument.

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Just now, LondonBrown said:

Then you don’t really understand the plan sorry and the conversation is pretty pointless. They expected to lose until at least 2018, it was the entire point of the tear down. 

they expected to lose every game but one for 2 seasons?   That is just incredibly stupid.    Enjoy it.....other teams turn things around from one year to the next...but not us...we need to lose every game for 2 seasons and then we might be better.  But the guys making the decisions didn't want 2 Franchise QB's that were sitting there for them to draft.  But these guys next year...boy..wait till then when they actually try to pick good players.

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1 minute ago, stillmotion said:

I've said it's cowpoop we have to put up with this many losses and not seen enough progress on the field

I've said Hue has made some boneheaded decisions, and at this point I wouldn't care if we found a better coach

I've argued heavily that the F.O. currently hasn't proven at ALL the plan is headed in the right direction and will work.

but pull me up ONE post where I said fire all the front office or Sashi Brown.......

Sashi needs to be demoted and to report to a real GM because this situation is currently TOXIC.

So please, even after I told you this isn't all a "OH WE SHOULD FIRE EVERYONE" vs "THE MIGHTY FO DEFENDERS" and you still don't acknowledge that, consider that i'm just a Browns fans thats sick of toxic situations and afraid JIMMY IS INCOMPETENT which is my whole argument.

A demotion is no different than a firing. Thanks for making my point. 

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Just now, wargograw said:

A demotion is no different than a firing. Thanks for making my point. 

What is your point? You never answered my question, just skidded around it. 

- How are you sure under the current situation the plan will likely work?

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3 minutes ago, wargograw said:

I have answered that question probably a dozen times hoss. Look around. 

You said in another thread :

Why do you believe, so hardly, that Sashi's process will probably work?

War: I could answer, but that’s not nearly as important as why I KNOW that blowing it up again will NOT work. And history supports my side so strongly that if this were a fight they would end it. 

Meaning, you directly DIDN'T answer the question. I'm not arguing to blow it up at all. I'm arguing give me reason why you believe it will likely work. If you can't do that and continue to generalize every Browns fan as a F.O. plan hater, then you absolutely have Sheet logic.

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1 hour ago, wargograw said:

So your plan hasn’t worked for 20 years and mine hasn’t for 2 but you think yours is superior. Okie dokie

The obvious difference is stillmotion's plan - hire football men and let them run the team - has worked in  NFL history. It didn't work here because the wrong football men were hired.

Your plan has zero track record of success. There's probably a reason NFL teams haven't hired a lawyer and a baseball guy to run their teams.

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3 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

 There's probably a reason NFL teams haven't hired a lawyer and a baseball guy to run their teams.

Let’s hope it never happens again.

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1 hour ago, stillmotion said:

You said in another thread :

War: I could answer, but that’s not nearly as important as why I KNOW that blowing it up again will NOT work. And history supports my side so strongly that if this were a fight they would end it. 

Meaning, you directly DIDN'T answer the question. I'm not arguing to blow it up at all. I'm arguing give me reason why you believe it will likely work. If you can't do that and continue to generalize every Browns fan as a F.O. plan hater, then you absolutely have Sheet logic.

Sounds like War's argument is- let me get this straight- the plan is working until it's proven it doesn't work. He needs to put a number of losses and years on it so we can see how much losing he'll tolerate. 

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1 hour ago, wargograw said:

A demotion is no different than a firing. Thanks for making my point. 

A reduction in responsibility is not the same as being put on the street.

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