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LondonBrown

The... I am batting (maybe alone) for the front office thread

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4 hours ago, nickers said:

Gip.. Those two seasons the Browns made the playoffs.. At least to me felt like frauds.. Especially Butch Davis's squad...

I didn't think that. In fact, they damn well should have won that playoff game if you recall.  They had it won until...in typical Browns fashion, they took whatever steps were necessary to lose a game.

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On October 30, 2017 at 10:33 PM, LondonBrown said:

I will start this by saying that I still completely do, 100%, agree with the current front office approach to changing the Browns. I know that’s an unpopular opinion and I know that lots here will either stop reading through disillusion or plain anger, but it is how I feel.

I'm with you LB...

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22 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I didn't think that. In fact, they damn well should have won that playoff game if you recall.  They had it won until...in typical Browns fashion, they took whatever steps were necessary to lose a game.

I think we may have cornered the market in that regard.. This Team/franchise and city are on thin ice.. or about as close to thin ice as one gets... Whatever is coming after this cluster phuck of a regime may be the last ...  The next FO/HC will almost certainly be expected to show something marked in improvement  right away.

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23 hours ago, hoorta said:

LALALALA potential doesn't mean crap War. I value 4 wins over ZERO got it? that's the damn object of the game. If this was like European soccer, the Browns would get relegated to the minor league. 

"The Process" is going to get tweaked- you know the buzzword is continual process improvement- and there's a hell of a lot at this point that needs improving. 

No, you value 4 wins every season until you die instead of the possibility of this build working out and us winning a Super Bowl. That's what you value. 

17 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

War, you are showing your age.

Think further back. The Bucs and Saints were absolute jokes for years. They both built teams using traditional methods and won championships. The Texans were hot garbage their first 7-8 years or so. 

None of them salted the Earth and then tried to rebuild.

The Texans have had a whopping 4 coaches in their 16 seasons and the same GM for over 10 years. Terrible example.

14 hours ago, nickers said:

It's hilarious... These millenials just don't get what its like around here during playoff time when the browns are involved...I'm sick of waiting....

Well get used to it, because scrapping this regime will just add another two years (minimum) to it.

10 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

How some of you can look at a defense that is finally building something after years of being in the bottom 5, after only one year of our current DC, and say this isnt moving fast enough for me blah blah. This is why we cant have nice things. 

Ur impatience ensures the rebuild bever happens. Pgh thanks u all, the browns remain 2 easy wins on the schedule

You're spot on, though you don't help your cause posting all the negativity you have been. 

9 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

I believe everyone has acknowledged improvement on the defense. The problem is the offense is horrendous and the front office is ran by a gaggle of autistic kids.

And yet they put the players on the defense necessary for the improvement to occur. You don't know what you're talking about.

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1 hour ago, wargograw said:

No, you value 4 wins every season until you die instead of the possibility of this build working out and us winning a Super Bowl. That's what you value. 

18 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

I just haven't seen progress war. We all expected a few wins and a better team this year. We expected fire, and now the Front office and Coaches are fighting. One of them will be fired, and if Hue is fired, how are you sure it's possible another random coach would lead us to a superbowl with a lawyer and baseball statistician's plan?

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5 hours ago, stillmotion said:

I just haven't seen progress war. We all expected a few wins and a better team this year. We expected fire, and now the Front office and Coaches are fighting. One of them will be fired, and if Hue is fired, how are you sure it's possible another random coach would lead us to a superbowl with a lawyer and baseball statistician's plan?

Kinda like putting a lumberjack in the left chair of a 747. Probably won't end well.

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7 hours ago, wargograw said:

And yet they put the players on the defense necessary for the improvement to occur. You don't know what you're talking about.

Williams has way more to do with it than this FO. And they also stocked the offense....or rather didn't stock the offense after many swings. 

I see you avoided the Saints and Bucs but that doesn't fit the narrative. But by all means keep tooting the horn of the front office and head coach that are taking the Browns to all new territory. It might be "worst team of all time" territory but it is new so it is cool!

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6 hours ago, stillmotion said:

I just haven't seen progress war. We all expected a few wins and a better team this year. We expected fire, and now the Front office and Coaches are fighting. One of them will be fired, and if Hue is fired, how are you sure it's possible another random coach would lead us to a superbowl with a lawyer and baseball statistician's plan?

Progress is losing games on a historic level. You just need to think outside of the box.

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On 11/1/2017 at 12:20 AM, hoorta said:

LALALALA potential doesn't mean crap War. I value 4 wins over ZERO got it? that's the damn object of the game. If this was like European soccer, the Browns would get relegated to the minor league. 

"The Process" is going to get tweaked- you know the buzzword is continual process improvement- and there's a hell of a lot at this point that needs improving. 

Rebuilds! Overhauls! Whatever terms you want to use are always very painful. Just ask the 3 straight 100 loss season Astros fans how painful that is for a franchise that just never seemed to be able to put it all together. It's hard to remain on course when it appears the ship is permanently anchored in Davy Jones' Locker. No one likes it and it is very hard to believe it can look any different from what it looks like right now. And I will admit that some days I want to fire them all and other days I want this to play out over the 3-5 years I thought it would take once the Browns committed to it. It's just hard when it's on the very bottom of a rebuild. But then I take hope from the fact that a player like Verlander is dropped into an organization that had totally rebuilt and needed one last key player to make it through. I don't care if it's baseball and not football, the process of rebuild is the same. And it's always very ugly and seemingly hopeless at the start.

On this one I side with LB, War and Tour plus anyone else I just failed to notice. Just got to keep after it and pray it works like we want it to.

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9 hours ago, stillmotion said:

I just haven't seen progress war. We all expected a few wins and a better team this year. We expected fire, and now the Front office and Coaches are fighting. One of them will be fired, and if Hue is fired, how are you sure it's possible another random coach would lead us to a superbowl with a lawyer and baseball statistician's plan?

Your question doesn’t make sense. 

3 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Williams has way more to do with it than this FO. And they also stocked the offense....or rather didn't stock the offense after many swings. 

I see you avoided the Saints and Bucs but that doesn't fit the narrative. But by all means keep tooting the horn of the front office and head coach that are taking the Browns to all new territory. It might be "worst team of all time" territory but it is new so it is cool!

It’s part Williams and part FO. No coach does anything without talent, and they will tell you that themselves.

Well you’re 0 for 1 (and embarrassingly so) on examples I looked into. I’m not sure you want me looking into the others. 

The offensive line is sick. The rest of the offense will be taken care of next draft. Unless we go your way and scrap everyone and delay building another two years. But hey at least we’ll get our precious four wins a year baby!! That’s just the garden of eden to folks like you. 

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9 hours ago, stillmotion said:

We all expected a few wins

You and some others did.  Not me, and not all of us.  Stop running games of projection - you're not hot enough for anyone to put up with that nonsense.

9 hours ago, stillmotion said:

I just haven't seen progress 

Your assumptions aren't anyone else's responsibility.  First, define "progress" [and have the self-awareness and rigor to actually stick to it] using external measurables and not feelings housed only within your head.  As currently phrased, there's enough wiggle room to deliberately change your definition and therefore never attain that progress no matter what.  Hell, even here in NE there's plenty of issues for the call-in ESPN AM radio guys.

Second, despite your complaining, we're still first in YPA in defensive rushing and 16th in YPA offensive rushing... both are better than last year.

Are we there yet? No. Is there no progress? Nope.

Yesterday was NOT a disaster..... the disaster would have been if the McCarron trade went through.

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3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Rebuilds! Overhauls! Whatever terms you want to use are always very painful. Just ask the 3 straight 100 loss season Astros fans how painful that is for a franchise that just never seemed to be able to put it all together. It's hard to remain on course when it appears the ship is permanently anchored in Davy Jones' Locker. No one likes it and it is very hard to believe it can look any different from what it looks like right now. And I will admit that some days I want to fire them all and other days I want this to play out over the 3-5 years I thought it would take once the Browns committed to it. It's just hard when it's on the very bottom of a rebuild. But then I take hope from the fact that a player like Verlander is dropped into an organization that had totally rebuilt and needed one last key player to make it through. I don't care if it's baseball and not football, the process of rebuild is the same. And it's always very ugly and seemingly hopeless at the start.

On this one I side with LB, War and Tour plus anyone else I just failed to notice. Just got to keep after it and pray it works like we want it to.

If the reports Dee (who's the real major domo) just went nuclear on the FO, not sure if the process will survive as constituted. Hue wanted Garropolo, and Sashi tells him to suck it up with Kizer? Not good. If what Tour's positing is true, then one nay in the consensus has torpedoed several- that at least on the surface would have been good moves. 

At some point, the FO has to stop passing up available talent to acquire future draft picks. Getting Garropolo for a second round pick and say our extra sixth would have been a good start. MHO. Some have posited- and I tend to agree, Sashi and DePo (over Hue's protestations) are hellbent on throwing this season in the toilet to get the #1 overall again in 2018.

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Why is that [rejecting the non-improvement named McCarron] not good?

Zero to be gained by pissing draft picks into the wind if the "available talent" is a questionable application of the word "talent".  I do not ASSUME wins will magically arrive just because a guy whose wife is a model is taking the snaps.

The optics and reality of the entire org is WORSE when the draft picks are spent and the wins still don't come.

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2 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

You and some others did.  Not me, and not all of us.  Stop running games of projection - you're not hot enough for anyone to put up with that nonsense.

11 hours ago, stillmotion said:

You didn't expect any wins? And fighting between the coaching staff and Front Office is hardly making progress

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3 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

You didn't expect any wins? And fighting between the coaching staff and Front Office is hardly making progress

No. Why would I? They had to burn it to the ground to put actual talent in starting positions.

News flash: Fighting between coaching and FO is going to happen in every org. Get over it. Ordinary misery is actually a good thing, snowflake.

The only difference between this operation and KC or NE is that..... you simply don't hear about the disagreement within other places.

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Just now, Unsympathetic said:

News flash: Fighting between coaching and FO is going to happen in every org. Get over it. Ordinary misery is a good thing, snowflake.

AHAHHAHAHAHA, yeah i guess i should quit being a "snowflake" (let me guess, you're a republican) and accept the Browns record. I should accept that Jimmy went 1-23 and might blow up his plan. It's normal in every organization to expect to lose every game too?

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Far from it - you're the one whining about your inability to tolerate the pain of losing.

I won't wait for your non-emotional definition of progress, of course.

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1 minute ago, Unsympathetic said:

Far from it - you're the one whining about your inability to tolerate the pain of losing.

i'm stating that i don't understand how without a either a coach or F.O. (we're most likely losing one) the plan can move forward. How are people like you and war so certain when a fool like Jimmy at the top could easily scrap the plan tomorrow. When something goes wrong, I'd like to hear your apology that you were wrong blindly believing that Jimmy is a competent NFL owner.

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Show where I said explicitly that "Jimmy is a competent NFL owner"

Don't worry, I won't wait up for your apology.

But keep changing the topic - it's all you've got!

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1 minute ago, Unsympathetic said:

Show where I said explicitly that "Jimmy is a competent NFL owner"

Don't worry, I won't wait up for your apology.

But keep changing the topic - it's all you've got!

Because, you believe the owner is going to stick with a plan that much. you have faith in it. if sashi and depo get fired, your plan is done. If Hue is fired, we don't even have a coach to carry out the plan. Newsflash : One of them will happen soon.

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23 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

you believe the owner is going to stick with a plan 

Once again, stop projecting. You don't know what I think - this is now the second time you've been wrong about that in under a half hour.

 

But post away - Enjoy the interwebs!

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1 minute ago, Unsympathetic said:

Once again, stop projecting. You don't know what I think - this is now the second time you've been wrong about that in under a half hour.

 

But post away - Enjoy the interwebs!

well maybe if you understood my argument instead of calling everyone snowflakes and telling them to shutup.

Answer this then.

- How are you sure under the current situation the plan will likely work?

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1 hour ago, stillmotion said:

Answer this then.

- How are you sure under the current situation the plan will likely work?

That's the question that all of the "stay the course" people need to answer.    How are you so sure that the same guys who passed on multiple NFL stars in past drafts are going to suddenly start making the right choices? 

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2 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

Why is that [rejecting the non-improvement named McCarron] not good?

Zero to be gained by pissing draft picks into the wind if the "available talent" is a questionable application of the word "talent".  I do not ASSUME wins will magically arrive just because a guy whose wife is a model is taking the snaps.

The optics and reality of the entire org is WORSE when the draft picks are spent and the wins still don't come.

I've said elsewhere the non-trade for McCarron was a good thing. Too much draft capital for a marginal (if any upgrade). Garropolo is a different story however- IF he could have been gotten for one of our second round picks, and one of the extra ones we have in the 4th, 5th, and 6th rounds. Seriously, after what just transpired you don't think the FO is deliberately tanking for 2018? 

This is where the frustration comes in. We had THREE first round picks this year, and I don't think at this point any of them are busts. Kirksey, Shelton, and Collins are playing well on defense- and we're STILL 0-8. Happy, happy, joy, joy. I think everyone expected some improvement in the win column this year. Hue may still get his chance to jump in the Lake. BUT MHO is if Gordon comes back and plays to his pro bowl level, he may save Jackson from hypothermia. 

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I'm all for everyone having their own patience/trust levels and time tables, but a couple of the SunShine Brats - or maybe just 1 in particular, has a way of telling the rest of us that we are stupid for not trusting The Process because he just KNOWS it is going to work and we will contend for the playoffs sooner rather than later..... I believe he also said Johnny was our future, so there's that.... 

Just another mid season being a Browns fan...... Can't talk about wins, division wins, division championships and God forbid..... playoffs. Instead we get to watch the rest of the country make even more fun of us (as if that is even possible) for yesterday's DumbPhuck Gate.  

 

 

 

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