"With the First Pick of the 2018 Draft, the Browns Select..."

[TexasAg1969]

OK-free six pack for anyone who thinks Josh Allen will ever have a winning season as a starting NFL QB on any team within the next 5 years.

I put the bet down so anyone who wants to give me a free six pack if he doesn't do that may sign up now.

He sucks.

 

[stillmotion]

2 hours ago, wargograw said:

How are Mayfield and Manziel NOT similar?

Just because they're two QB's an shorter doesn't mean they're the same. Johnny played "playground football" while Baker is polished and can actually make reads. Why don't we compare Rosen to Manziel too while we're at it, since they both aren't completely dedicated to the game of football.

[Mark O]

9 hours ago, hoorta said:

Sheeze, CSU's OFFENSE has nothing to do with their DEFENSE, nice try at some spin. So some crackpot blogger has Allen #1 overall? You ignoring the big bold, huh? 

Sophmore season- I was all in on fail for Cardale. He still even on the Bills roster? 

No...Cardale is in  San Diego.

[Mark O]

11 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

here is what I'm saying. Going by stats is like walking a minefield in a WWII video game. You make mistakes, surely.

I'll draft a kid like Josh Allen, or even Clayton Thorson, over Mark's superstar qb with outstanding stats in college poster on his wall..

I didn't say just stats.  I said completion percentage in college is a good indication of future accuracy or inaccuracy issues.   A guy who's only completing 55% in college isn't going to suddenly learn to be more accurate at the next level when the competition and game is harder.  

[calfoxwc]

I agree to disagree, though - it CAN be an indicator, but only if the teams are generally even in that conference.A great qb playing for a bad team isn't going to have great stats. If Allen played for Georgia/Alabama/LSU..etc, and he had those stats,he would get some really bad reviews. But he plays for a smaller school, "smaller conference", lost some major starters from last season - of course his stats are going to drop. But when I look at all the checkboxes, they are otherwise all filled in.

Stats are a good indication only when other factors are pretty much not warping their relevance.  The difference between the year before, when his stats were far, far better, and the lower stats this season speak volumes. Same qb.

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, stillmotion said:

Just because they're two QB's an shorter doesn't mean they're the same. Johnny played "playground football" while Baker is polished and can actually make reads. Why don't we compare Rosen to Manziel too while we're at it, since they both aren't completely dedicated to the game of football.

 

Going to need to see some evidence of this.

[Babernakle]

Everyone needs to stop with the qb and rb talk.  For the millionth time it will not matter who you get they cant run through 5 rushers and you can throw when your on your back.  Fix the line, fix the gosh dam line.  Cleveland focus should be on nothing but the line with the first to picks and free agency.  Then bring back hue for another year and go get a qb in free agency for a bridge to the franchise qb.  Do you want what the colts have.  Have luck and he's hurt and my never be the same.  Fix the line and the whole team will be better.  And personal I would like to see what cardell jones could do behind a great line. And he would be cheap. Cause god know the Cleveland fans don't want hoyer even though he brought wins. 

[tiamat63]

4 minutes ago, Babernakle said:

Everyone needs to stop with the qb and rb talk.  For the millionth time it will not matter who you get they cant run through 5 rushers and you can throw when your on your back.  Fix the line, fix the gosh dam line.  Cleveland focus should be on nothing but the line with the first to picks and free agency.  Then bring back hue for another year and go get a qb in free agency for a bridge to the franchise qb.  Do you want what the colts have.  Have luck and he's hurt and my never be the same.  Fix the line and the whole team will be better.  And personal I would like to see what cardell jones could do behind a great line. And he would be cheap. Cause god know the Cleveland fans don't want hoyer even though he brought wins. 

I'll give you a hint... about what he's doing for San Diego.  

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, wargograw said:

How are Mayfield and Manziel NOT similar?

Mayfield does have about 3 inches on Johnny.  And that's about it.

[Babernakle]

Yeah I said cardale behind a good line 

[Mark O]

1 hour ago, Babernakle said:

Everyone needs to stop with the qb and rb talk.  For the millionth time it will not matter who you get they cant run through 5 rushers and you can throw when your on your back.  Fix the line, fix the gosh dam line.  Cleveland focus should be on nothing but the line with the first to picks and free agency.  Then bring back hue for another year and go get a qb in free agency for a bridge to the franchise qb.  Do you want what the colts have.  Have luck and he's hurt and my never be the same.  Fix the line and the whole team will be better.  And personal I would like to see what cardell jones could do behind a great line. And he would be cheap. Cause god know the Cleveland fans don't want hoyer even though he brought wins. 

The Cleveland Browns have the 7th highest paid offensive line in football this year.   I'd say they did fix the line.  How much more fixing do you want to do?    The QB and RB and WR's stink.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/offensive-line/

[stillmotion]

Just now, Mark O said:

The Cleveland Browns have the 7th highest paid offensive line in football this year.   I'd say they did fix the line.  How much more fixing do you want to do?    The QB and RB and WR's stink.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/offensive-line/

True. Talk about drafting linemen all you want but that doesn't address our need of a QB or of playmakers. But it's cool, I guess in a thread about the draft, Tiamat, who's apparently a QB guru said i should shutup about one of the best college runningbacks, and one of the best quarterbacks, because the Browns don't need either of them.

[Nero]

Definitely I would forget about the lines.

QB, WR, FS, RB, CB. That's for me the order.

And could we use some of the salary space we have in some already proven free agents? We can offer way more than other teams! 

[stillmotion]

8 minutes ago, Nero said:

Definitely I would forget about the lines.

QB, WR, FS, RB, CB. That's for me the order.

And could we use some of the salary space we have in some already proven free agents? We can offer way more than other teams! 

Hopefully we do nero

[The Gipper]

26 minutes ago, Nero said:

Definitely I would forget about the lines.

QB, WR, FS, RB, CB. That's for me the order.

And could we use some of the salary space we have in some already proven free agents? We can offer way more than other teams! 

Agree....the lines are in decent shape.  But we seriously need some "outside" talent.......Cover corners, WRs, etc.

[Babernakle]

 So if the line is fixed why is the qbs always getting hurt and the running backs get hit in the backfield.  Just because the highly paid does not mean there good. 

[stillmotion]

1 minute ago, Babernakle said:

 So if the line is fixed why is the qbs always getting hurt and the running backs get hit in the backfield.  Just because the highly paid does not mean there good. 

maybe our QB's suck, we have no receivers, don't use duke johnson enough, and crowell is overrated

[Nero]

21 minutes ago, Babernakle said:

 So if the line is fixed why is the qbs always getting hurt and the running backs get hit in the backfield.  Just because the highly paid does not mean there good. 

In my opinion it has more to do with the offensive possibilities overall and the playcalling. If your pass attack sucks, and your offense is previsible, which is our case, defensibe backs can sit on the routes they know you are going to run and LBs have more time to get to the QB. And when the call is a run, well, they can guess it pretty easily and get tackles for loss.

To put it simple: if a corp sucks as bad as Brown's receivers and Qb currently do, it affects other corps in the offense and overall everyone looks worse.

[Mark O]

54 minutes ago, Babernakle said:

 So if the line is fixed why is the qbs always getting hurt and the running backs get hit in the backfield.  Just because the highly paid does not mean there good. 

The quarterbacks haven't been hurt at all this season.   The running backs (Crowell in particuliar) aren't very good. 

And considering you have Thomas at LT and then brought in 2 of the most highly sought after free agents for the offensive line in this pas offseason, I'd say the team did everything in their power to try and "fix" the offensive line.   I dont' think it's a line problem.  How many sacks has Kizer taken because he holds the ball too long?  About every single one of the sacks are because of this reason.  It's the one thing that both Kessler and Ben Hogan do better than Kizer, they get rid of the ball faster.  Hogan throws it to the other team a lot when he starts but he doesn't get sacked. 

Offensive line is the least of our problems on a team with no stars.  There isn't one player starting a game for this offense that scares the other team.   Gordon if he makes it back will certainly help that out but not if Kizer is still throwing everything 10 feel over his head.

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Just because they're two QB's an shorter doesn't mean they're the same. Johnny played "playground football" while Baker is polished and can actually make reads. Why don't we compare Rosen to Manziel too while we're at it, since they both aren't completely dedicated to the game of football.

I've been thinking Trace McSorley of Penn State reminds me more of Manziel, on the field anyways. Mobile, smaller than average, chucks the ball downfield and somehow has success doing it.

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, Babernakle said:

 So if the line is fixed why is the qbs always getting hurt and the running backs get hit in the backfield.  Just because the highly paid does not mean there good. 

Can't tell if trolling....?

[Canton Mike]

3 hours ago, Babernakle said:

 So if the line is fixed why is the qbs always getting hurt and the running backs get hit in the backfield.  Just because the highly paid does not mean there good. 

Hoping that your math is better than your grammar, it's difficult to block 8 with 5.

Mike 

[wargograw]

14 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Just because they're two QB's an shorter doesn't mean they're the same. Johnny played "playground football" while Baker is polished and can actually make reads. Why don't we compare Rosen to Manziel too while we're at it, since they both aren't completely dedicated to the game of football.

Baker plays plenty of playground football of his own.

12 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Mayfield does have about 3 inches on Johnny.  And that's about it.

I doubt that. We'll see at the combine.

[tiamat63]

7 minutes ago, wargograw said:

Baker plays plenty of playground football of his own.

I doubt that. We'll see at the combine.

Johnny was 5'11 3/4 and a little over 6' in cleats.   Which is about right because when I saw Johnny in camp he was maybe an inch taller than me.  

Baker Mayfield ain't no 6'3.   Hell, he's MAYBE 6'1 in cleats.  So he'll check in around the magical 6ft mark.  

[The Gipper]

18 hours ago, Babernakle said:

 So if the line is fixed why is the qbs always getting hurt and the running backs get hit in the backfield.  Just because the highly paid does not mean there good. 

What QBs have gotten hurt?  I mean....that had been a major problem in years past...but I don't think any QB has been injured this year...yet. Have they?

[The Gipper]

Mayfield does have about 3 inches on Johnny.  And that's about it.

I doubt that. We'll see at the combine.

I thought JFF was about 5'10"....and Mayfield is listed at 6'1".    

Is that wrong?

[Babernakle]

As I said a new qb and or running back will not help the browns.  To get better and win the offensive line has to get better.  Either through the draft or free agency.  The browns line o line blows period.  The only way to win is through high line play.  Exception Russell Wilson.  The browns have done this same cycle  over and over.  We have to get a qb we have to get WRs.  And it fails.  Time for a new direction.  

[Babernakle]

Not to mention  Sam Darnold already said he's not going to Cleveland 

[The Gipper]

33 minutes ago, Babernakle said:

Not to mention  Sam Darnold already said he's not going to Cleveland 

If he is drafted he will come.  But...if he made that kind of statement....it is already one indication that he is a gutless loser.  No QB who has any chutzpah....any guts, any kohones, would walk away from such a challenge.

Regardless of that...I have seen a few reports that definitely do NOT put him at the top of this QB class.  

[hoorta]

On 11/8/2017 at 11:54 AM, calfoxwc said:

I agree to disagree, though - it CAN be an indicator, but only if the teams are generally even in that conference.A great qb playing for a bad team isn't going to have great stats. If Allen played for Georgia/Alabama/LSU..etc, and he had those stats,he would get some really bad reviews. But he plays for a smaller school, "smaller conference", lost some major starters from last season - of course his stats are going to drop. But when I look at all the checkboxes, they are otherwise all filled in.

Stats are a good indication only when other factors are pretty much not warping their relevance.  The difference between the year before, when his stats were far, far better, and the lower stats this season speak volumes. Same qb.

Mountain West isn't Big 10 or SEC, but it's not creampuff. Boise State has had decent teams for years. You can watch your hero again Saturday night on ESPNU. And if you like Allen, you have to love Deshone KIzer- they play about the same, & Kizer's stats at Notre Dame were even better than Allen's. 

Stats were far, far better last year? Threw for more touchdowns- and that's about it. Same completion %, TD\INT ratio. Wow, he really tore apart Gardner-Webb (I'll buy a root beer if you can tell me where that school is without looking it up) and Utah State. 

http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3918298/josh-allen