Our defense is #6 in rushing and #9 overall.

[The Gipper]

14 hours ago, gumby73 said:

This defense gets no better with losing guys like Collins again..In 9 games we gave up 146 points in the 1st half..vs 91 points in the 2nd half..In the last 2 games both Vikings & Lions scored 21 in 2nd half..42 of the 91 scored..that's not like a Gregg Williams defense..

We may need to go OLB high in the draft next year.   His replacement, Burgess....is a scrub.

[Clevfan4life]

2 hours ago, Mark O said:

In a couple of games, our offense has not helped the defense at all.   However, Indy, Houston, and Cincy marched up and down the field in the first half of the game.   I don't care what the offense was doing in those games, the defense has to do something to keep the team in the game in the first half.    There are some potentially good players on defense and its better than it was in years past (which isn't saying much) because the bar for the defense was so low but its far from a good defense. 

Only the people who don't want anything to change will say that Williams has to go if Hue is fired...they have no proof of this but they are reisistant to any change and want to see this Sheet show come back for another year and only after another year of bad playcalling,  stupifying clock management, and absurd use of time outs will they accept that Coach Huey is a bad HC.   There is no reason that Williams couldn't stay with a new HC.   In fact, again....look at the Rams for 2 reasons...one their defense seems to be just fine without Williams so apparently losing him didn't hurt them all that much, but also, I would think that a new young innovative hungry head coach would want to keep a respected DC around to make his job easier, much like what the Rams did when they hired Phillips to coach the defense.

Guy, listen...."IF" Jimmy lets it be known that the defense isn't going anywhere, ie Williams, then yeah fine...if they part ways with Hue, ok. But the fact that you say "well there's no reason Williams has to go if a new HC comes in" shows exactly what me and a few other people have been trying to get across to you for multiple posts and in multiple threads. You just don't really understand how things "typically" work in the NFL. Maybe you're young I dunno. But "historically" regime changes mean a full house cleaning. Very rarely do DC's or OC's get exempted from this. I really don't know why that happens if for example you're getting rid of an offensive HC to bring in another offensive HC, why would he care who the DC is as long as the defense is showing promise....which ours is. I would "think" that say if McDaniels was going to come in he'd be happy to work with Williams. But truth is most of these arrogant assclowns want their own guys who suck up to their ego's. Just the way it is.

This is why I'm ok with Hue for another year. That'll be 3 years. If this Sheet show is still going on next year we can "safely" take Hue out in a helicopter ride way out over the lake and he can accidentally get pushed out. 3 years in the NFL can't hold it against the organization if there's hardly any improvement. Right now tho if we got rid of Hue the league narrative would be the same as when we let Pettine go and before that Chud and before that shurm and before that Mangini. And yea, it matter. You probably say "so fukking what" to what our league rep is. And that's because you don't get it. You don't understand that players don't want to fukking come here and get yo yo'd around from year to year through different schemes. Especially the defensive guys. I get it, you prob don't understand how defense works..especially from a personnel standpoint. Like why a 4-3 DE typically has his career and stats affected by a dipsht DC who comes in and says "hey you'd make a great OLB'er"......but trust me it does. Even the interior guys.

Remember that game during Pettine's time where Siragusa was telling about meeting Dansby and saying what the hell happened to you? and Dansby saying I had to lose like 20-30 lbs to play in this system..remember that? I mean look I hated Dansby but he made his name playing 3-4 ILB'er at Arizona and being one of the best in the league. He comes to Cleveland which was also running a 3-4 and for reasons I'm still not sure, couldn't make it work in Pettine's 3-4 at the same bodyweight he carried at AZ. So even within the same scheme things can evidently vary from DC to DC. So this notion that well we can get rid of the whole staff but should bring in another 4-3 guy, even that doesn't guarantee a major shakeup.

[Clevfan4life]

2 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

No other defense in the NFL has 9 losses against zero wins.  

Do learn about the game of football sometime.

[Mark O]

18 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Do learn about the game of football sometime.

yeah...in your world...wins and losses don't matter.  It's the rankings the team has that matter.   

[Mark O]

21 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

This is why I'm ok with Hue for another year. That'll be 3 years. If this Sheet show is still going on next year we can "safely" take Hue out in a helicopter ride way out over the lake and he can accidentally get pushed out. 3 years in the NFL can't hold it against the organization if there's hardly any improvement. Right now tho if we got rid of Hue the league narrative would be the same as when we let Pettine go and before that Chud and before that shurm and before that Mangini. And yea, it matter. You probably say "so fukking what" to what our league rep is.

 

I don't care the league rep.  I want to see wins.  I see a HC that is making mistakes that cost this team.  It's entirely possible that Mr. 1-24 and 2-30 is keeping this team from winning games.  His play calling is horrible...his clock management and use of time outs is grade school level and it's not getting any better.    I don't want to waste another season of watching this moron make mistakes.  

[The Gipper]

I suspect they dipped quite a bit from those #6 and #9 rankings yesterday.

Notwithstanding the fuyuckyuckyuckups by the offense yesterday.....the defense did us no favors in that game.

[D Bone]

Clevfan - If you're not careful, Greg is gonna get a restraining order out on you. 

[Tacosman]

14 hours ago, wargograw said:

All according to plan, yes. Sorry you didn’t read the warning label that came with this regime. 

the plan was to set a 2 year record for futility?  Hmmm...please cite where they told us that.

Additionally, if that was the plan wouldn't this be a genius approach to take with any new job?  You go get hired for a new job and tell your boss "ok now, I'm going to suck at this job for the next two years worse than any other employee has ever sucked, and since I'm telling you that now you're going to be ok with it because it's all part of the plan so don't dare fire me".  

[Mark O]

7 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

the plan was to set a 2 year record for futility?  Hmmm...please cite where they told us that.

Additionally, if that was the plan wouldn't this be a genius approach to take with any new job?  You go get hired for a new job and tell your boss "ok now, I'm going to suck at this job for the next two years worse than any other employee has ever sucked, and since I'm telling you that now you're going to be ok with it because it's all part of the plan so don't dare fire me".  

You don't get it because you're not smart enough and don't know enough about football to understand.  That's what the sunshine and rainbow pumpers are telling us.  If you were smarter, you'd get it.  This is way to rebuild.....suck shit for 2 full years...give everyone a third year to continue sucking shit and things will improve.  

Fire Hue....watch the team get better.

[flyingfooldoug]

2 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Do learn about the game of football sometime.

It's called the Lombardi trophy for a reason. Read up on him and his theory on winning and football. You really are clueless to the game aren't you? 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

nice

[jiggins7919]

We have to stop blitzing so much, especially with Collins out.  It's killing us.

[jrb12711]

9 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

We have to stop blitzing so much, especially with Collins out.  It's killing us.

I'd edit that to more say we have to stop SCRIPTING our damn blitzes so much. Williams did a tremendous job in the 1st quarter or so of disguising things, but the last two TD's of the game for the lions were so obvious scheme wise it hurt to watch. Especially the last one, oof. That quick pass was something that I could have completed for a TD there reading the defense, let alone a dude like Stafford.

[Nero]

1 minute ago, jrb12711 said:

I'd edit that to more say we have to stop SCRIPTING our damn blitzes so much. Williams did a tremendous job in the 1st quarter or so of disguising things, but the last two TD's of the game for the lions were so obvious scheme wise it hurt to watch. Especially the last one, oof. That quick pass was something that I could have completed for a TD there reading the defense, let alone a dude like Stafford.

That's it. There are few times where the defense adjusts the seconds before the snap, or that a defender shows blitz when actually is falling into cover. It doesn't mean that it will always work, but at least the QB won't have a full read of our defense before the snap. 

[wargograw]

9 hours ago, Nero said:

 

And I don't understand why if Hue leaves, Williams does it too. Could someone explain me, please?

clevfan did it better than I could in saying that new head coaches want a whole new staff that will stroke their ego. No one really knows why it happens, but it does. NO ONE KEEPS COORDINATORS. Wade Phillips, hall of fame DC, one of the best of all time, left Denver for LA in a year where Denver hired a very young HC (who one would think would be happy to have Phillips stick around). And now, what do ya know, Denver's defense is struggling tremendously. 

[Mark O]

1 minute ago, wargograw said:

clevfan did it better than I could in saying that new head coaches want a whole new staff that will stroke their ego. No one really knows why it happens, but it does. NO ONE KEEPS COORDINATORS. Wade Phillips, hall of fame DC, one of the best of all time, left Denver for LA in a year where Denver hired a very young HC (who one would think would be happy to have Phillips stick around). And now, what do ya know, Denver's defense is struggling tremendously. 

Yep...and the Rams defense who lost the all world Greg Williams doesn't seem to have missed him one bit so far this season have they?  

[Nero]

1 hour ago, wargograw said:

clevfan did it better than I could in saying that new head coaches want a whole new staff that will stroke their ego. No one really knows why it happens, but it does. NO ONE KEEPS COORDINATORS. Wade Phillips, hall of fame DC, one of the best of all time, left Denver for LA in a year where Denver hired a very young HC (who one would think would be happy to have Phillips stick around). And now, what do ya know, Denver's defense is struggling tremendously. 

I got it, I got it. But if Hue doesn't get a OC, he's getting fired most likely...

[Clevfan4life]

1 hour ago, Mark O said:

Yep...and the Rams defense who lost the all world Greg Williams doesn't seem to have missed him one bit so far this season have they?  

ur never going to wrap your head around how team competency is built. It doesn't happen in a year. You can make improvements in one area or another but you're not going to be a consistent top rated defense in all categories in one fukking year. Great defense's are built, they don't spawn from the ether.

[Mark O]

3 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

ur never going to wrap your head around how team competency is built. It doesn't happen in a year. You can make improvements in one area or another but you're not going to be a consistent top rated defense in all categories in one fukking year. Great defense's are built, they don't spawn from the ether.

you already told us they are a top ranked defense.   Top 10 in 2 categories.

[Clevfan4life]

Just now, Mark O said:

you already told us they are a top ranked defense.   Top 10 in 2 categories.

they were top 10 in rushing, prior to sunday....pretty sure I stated they were 18th in pass defense. So what other defensive category could I have been talking about? If you're 6th against the run and 18th against the pass, what other defensive metric could I have been talking about? Top 10 in shtt talking? pls shut up

[Mark O]

I think you're in the top 10 of talking out of your ass and using selective stats to make your pointless argument about how we should continue to employ a losing coach just so that we don't have to change a coordinator.

[Canton Dawg]

Well, we’re ranked 29th in points surrendered. . .

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2017&seasonType=REG&akmobile=ios-tablet&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&akcarrier=other&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=SCORING&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_SCORED

[Clevfan4life]

30 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

Well, we’re ranked 29th in points surrendered. . .

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2017&seasonType=REG&akmobile=ios-tablet&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&akcarrier=other&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=SCORING&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_SCORED

Yeah, not a good stat. Defense needs alot of work. But its the DC's first fukking year. We went from almost dead last in all categories tomsomething that shows promise. That wasnt a "fluke"...that was because of gregg fukking williams. 

Just because someone refers to a singular stat diesnt mean they're insinuating the entire defense is fine where it is. Thst points stat tho has multiple variables not all of which are on the defense. 

But soeaking just of the defense doesn't it show the DC is doing something right if he improved our pass ranking like 12 or so spots and our run ranking like over 20 spots? In one fukking year.....we switch dc's and unless its another 4-3 guy u can rest assured we're looking at a bottom 5 defense "again". Why does this have to be explained to browns fans who have had to endure some of the worst defenses in modern times?  

[jiggins7919]

16 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

I'd edit that to more say we have to stop SCRIPTING our damn blitzes so much. Williams did a tremendous job in the 1st quarter or so of disguising things, but the last two TD's of the game for the lions were so obvious scheme wise it hurt to watch. Especially the last one, oof. That quick pass was something that I could have completed for a TD there reading the defense, let alone a dude like Stafford.

I totally agree with you, in fact, the announcers even commented on how Gregg was doing a very nice job early of disguising his blitzes.  Either we didn't do as good of a job disguising, or the Lions just knew what to look for....either way, it wasn't working and we had to try something different.  

[Canton Dawg]

2 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Not accurate.

I know for a fact that 7 points came on a blocked punt vs Pittsburgh with the defense on the bench. There also must have been some pick 6's this season with the horrid QB play. Turnovers have hurt this defense. Without the blocked punt puts the D at 233 points and ranked 26th right behind Washington.

26th instead of 29th?

Well that's relief!

[hx214]

5 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

How many pick 6's?

Doesnt take many to make a defense look terrible.

Did they also count the Fumble/score that the Lions had on DeValve?

[flyingfooldoug]

5 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

How many pick 6's?

Doesnt take many to make a defense look terrible.

A couple of wins would make the D look better

[Mark O]

Just now, flyingfooldoug said:

A couple of wins would make the D look better

Not being as soft as wet toilet paper in 4 of the games would also make them look better.

[Nero]

If we're going to count only the points allowed when the defense is on the field, it's 240 - 21 = 219 (1 pick six, 1 fumble returned to TD, 1 punt blocked). It would put us #23, just better than the New York Jets.

BUT  if you check the chart, you can see that almost every team gets points against when the defense is not on the field, so I don't think there's a reason to point out that stat, simply because that's part of the game that you have to take that into account.

It doesn't help the defense either having Kizer making 3 INTs in our own side of the field (you can check that in his situational stats), but everything is part of the game.

If those stats (pick six, INTs, etc.) say anything, is that this team still has a lot to improve.

[Mark O]

1 minute ago, Nero said:

If we're going to count only the points allowed when the defense is on the field, it's 240 - 21 = 219 (1 pick six, 1 fumble returned to TD, 1 punt blocked). It would put us #23, just better than the New York Jets.

 

Right..so you'd have to do the same research for every team in the league, so true...points allowed could be a misleading stat so I just go by how they look and what I see.   I've seen them get killed 3 times in the first half (cancelling out the "they're tired and worn out because of the offense" excuse) Indy, Cincy and Houston moved up and down the field without any trouble in the first halves and this past week Detroit did the same in the 2nd half despite our time of possession edge so the defense shouldn't have been tired.  That's 4 out of 9 games where the defense hasn't looked all that good.   Jets and Titans the defense gave up long drives when the game was close....the defense isn't that good.  Below league average for sure.