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Clevfan4life

Our defense is #6 in rushing and #9 overall.

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Just now, Mark O said:

Thanks Captain Obvious.   They aren't as good as the rankings you were so proud of.  As many of us tried to tell you.  

and as I explained to you earlier I knew full well they weren't. But they were absolutely improved over the defense's of the last several years. Of that there is no discussion. Massively improved.

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Just now, Clevfan4life said:

and as I explained to you earlier I knew full well they weren't. But they were absolutely improved over the defense's of the last several years. Of that there is no discussion. Massively improved.

No they are not.  Not Massively improved..not even close.   Better...slightly.  Still not all that great.   Didn't look any different today than they did any other time in the last however many seasons.  Can't get off the field.  Can't get the big stop or turnover when needed.  

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I think you've forgotten that we've been almost dead last in all categories for years. The short term memory of the avg browns fan in full display. "aww man I wish pettine was back, now that was  real coach and our defense was totes solid when he was here". And when Pettine was here aww man our D looked soooo much better with Horton, man I can't believe he only got a year

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because I know what I'm talking about I'm telling you the last time a Cleveland Browns defense had a solid foundation was under Jauron. We had some decent players on other defense's but it all starts up front and the last time our front 4 was serviceable was under him....until this year that is.

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16th ranked defense that's 28th in the league in points given up...... the only stat that matters. But who cares about points these days? After all, we're Browns fans and apparently the scoreboard doesn't really matter any more in our Bizarro World Universe. 

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You're hung up on rankings.   You've already proven that those are totally misleading by saying the Browns defense (0-9) ranks higher than the Rams defense (7-2).    The only thing that matters is wins and losses.  This team doesn't win...like ever....so the defense is not that good.   Today being another example of them just getting their ass handed to them on defense, like has happened several other times this season.  A "good" defense doesn't have that happen in 1/2 the games of the season (Cincy, Indy, Houston, Detroit)...they're not that good.  Improved...sure.  A couple of decent players and maybe actual stars...maybe.  But they're not good.  The entire team is not good.  If they were...they'd have won a couple of games.

 

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Just now, D Bone said:

16th ranked defense that's 28th in the league in points given up...... the only stat that matters. But who cares about points these days? After all, we're Browns fans and apparently the scoreboard doesn't really matter any more in our Bizarro World Universe. 

Only pretty stats matter and where a team is ranked in meaningless stats so sunshine pumpers can talk about the "process" and how the team is better now than it was 2 seasons ago and only idiots don't understand. 

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1 minute ago, Mark O said:

Only pretty stats matter and where a team is ranked in meaningless stats so sunshine pumpers can talk about the "process" and how the team is better now than it was 2 seasons ago and only idiots don't understand. 

I wonder how many Patriots fans sit around and talk about their offensive, defensive and special teams stat rankings? I'm betting they're talking about wins and Championships..... but what do I know.  

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This defense gets no better with losing guys like Collins again..In 9 games we gave up 146 points in the 1st half..vs 91 points in the 2nd half..In the last 2 games both Vikings & Lions scored 21 in 2nd half..42 of the 91 scored..that's not like a Gregg Williams defense..

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35 minutes ago, Mark O said:

  Improved...sure. 

 

You could have just stopped right there. That's the main reason you don't let Williams go. He "improved", and in no small manner.....one of the perennially worst defense's in the NFL. Period, end of discussion. NO ONE is claiming the Browns are in the same discussion as the 85 bears so stop acting like people defending Williams are isinuating that, we're not. In one year he's made this defense "much" better, which ofc is a relative statement given that we're historically just pure utter Shiite of a defense that doesn't belong on a college field. That's the reason I bring up stats, not because they matter overall but they are a metric that shows improvement...improvement we simply cannot throw away. We let Williams go we're likely back to the bottom of the rankings because 1) a scheme change is likely because....well...just cause, it's what the browns do   and 2) it'll be another assistant to the LB'er coach who'll agree to come here.

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He's an assistant coach.  No way in hell am I keep coach Huey and his shitty record just so the DC doesn't leave.    If the new coach doesn't want him...screw him...there's plenty of good coaches out there that will be looking for work.  If Williams doesn't want to stay with the new coach...then don't let the door hit you in the ass coach...  see ya..thanks for the season.    The HC has to go because he's a bad coach.  Another season won't make him a good coach.  His record speaks for itself.   1-24..2-30.    That's the bottom line in a bottom line league.   1 win and 24 losses as HC of the Browns and 2 wins and 30 losses in his last 32 as a Head Coach.  Thanks Huey but piss off...you're a lousy HC.

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34 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

You could have just stopped right there. That's the main reason you don't let Williams go. He "improved", and in no small manner.....one of the perennially worst defense's in the NFL. Period, end of discussion.

While I agree that your hardcore stance of "he improved the D, so he's good coach, end of discussion, period" is technically correct, but the reality is that the improvement bar was set pretty damn low. Yes, he has improved the D when compared to what we are used to seeing 'round these parts, but that isn't saying much - if anything.

The D is still among the league's worst units in points allowed, and that stat can not be argued or rationalized as points are what the game is decided by each week. I like Greg, but in no way do I see him as a "gotta have deal breaker" in terms of what changes are coming...... At the end of the day, his defensive unit is an integral part of an 0-9 team, possible on their way to 0-16. 

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its not like our defense every year over the last 5 yeas has been dead last...we've always vacillated between 'sorta bad' to 'very bad'.....the fact that for much of the year the defense has been on the 'sorta bad' end of the spectrum(but some other metrics has been worse) is hardly reason to believe that Greg Williams needs to stay.  

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I really dont know what else to say here. We've spent the ladt 7-8 years under this "next up" mentality and it never works. It never will work either. Every single time one area of the team looks to be building something it gets torn up and reduced back to sht the bext year when a brand new FO and/or coaching staff roll into town. 

I have zero doubt bext when we're 0-8 u clowns will be calling for mcdaniels head. Our def will be back to being amongst the worst, the scheme changes that will invariably be ill fit to our personnel will frustrate the players beyond repair and they'll all want out. And they'll talk about the organizational and fanbase dysfunction. And every year we'll see the top draft prospects making impassioned pleas to teams to trade up and take them

welcome to tje new normal. If ur upset about 1-23 u will love 2-64 with the yearly draft dodging circus. Its bever going to end. You old guys should just consign urselves to never seeing another .500+ season. This is going to be a 0-4 win team for decades. 

 

"Decades"

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16 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

I really dont know what else to say here. We've spent the ladt 7-8 years under this "next up" mentality and it never works. It never will work either. Every single time one area of the team looks to be building something it gets torn up and reduced back to sht the bext year when a brand new FO and/or coaching staff roll into town. 

I have zero doubt bext when we're 0-8 u clowns will be calling for mcdaniels head. Our def will be back to being amongst the worst, the scheme changes that will invariably be ill fit to our personnel will frustrate the players beyond repair and they'll all want out. And they'll talk about the organizational and fanbase dysfunction. And every year we'll see the top draft prospects making impassioned pleas to teams to trade up and take them

welcome to tje new normal. If ur upset about 1-23 u will love 2-64 with the yearly draft dodging circus. Its bever going to end. You old guys should just consign urselves to never seeing another .500+ season. This is going to be a 0-4 win team for decades. 

 

"Decades"

Sure...because us "old guys" can see a head coach who is in over his head and not doing a good job.   Yet you want to keep him because you're afraid of losing the defensive coordinator of a 0-9 team who's supposedly improved defense has been totally gashed in 4 of the 9 games and that is not counting the gashing  they took in the 2nd half against the Vikings.     Why is the defense suddenly going to get worse with essentially the same players and just a different coach?   Again..how did that work out for the Rams defense?  How much do you think they miss Williams this year?  I'd be willing to bet a lot that they don't miss him much.   Winning games will do that.  Maybe someday the Browns will actually win games instead of having some nice stats so we aren't talking about the coordinators.

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34 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

I really dont know what else to say here. We've spent the ladt 7-8 years under this "next up" mentality and it never works. It never will work either. Every single time one area of the team looks to be building something it gets torn up and reduced back to sht the bext year when a brand new FO and/or coaching staff roll into town. 

I have zero doubt bext when we're 0-8 u clowns will be calling for mcdaniels head. Our def will be back to being amongst the worst, the scheme changes that will invariably be ill fit to our personnel will frustrate the players beyond repair and they'll all want out. And they'll talk about the organizational and fanbase dysfunction. And every year we'll see the top draft prospects making impassioned pleas to teams to trade up and take them

welcome to tje new normal. If ur upset about 1-23 u will love 2-64 with the yearly draft dodging circus. Its bever going to end. You old guys should just consign urselves to never seeing another .500+ season. This is going to be a 0-4 win team for decades. 

 

"Decades"

Or they could hire a new coach that nobody has ever heard of and begin the 1st year of what will become a dynasty...... Hey, this game is fun!

You don't know about the future any more than anyone else does - including us old dudes, yet you continue to speak in absolutes regarding it..... Us old guys know better. 

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6 minutes ago, D Bone said:

Or they could hire a new coach that nobody has ever heard of and begin the 1st year of what will become a dynasty......

you might be right, I mean one of these times we're bound to strike gold right? These last 5000 regime changes were a total fluke that they didn't work out. I mean odds are in a 100 years we're bound to have a lightning strike get rich quick in one year outcome right? bound to happen. Happens all the time for Cleveland, all the fukking time.

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9 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

you might be right, I mean one of these times we're bound to strike gold right? These last 5000 regime changes were a total fluke that they didn't work out. I mean odds are in a 100 years we're bound to have a lightning strike get rich quick in one year outcome right? bound to happen. Happens all the time for Cleveland, all the fukking time.

Dilly Dilly! 

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44 minutes ago, D Bone said:

Or they could hire a new coach that nobody has ever heard of and begin the 1st year of what will become a dynasty...... Hey, this game is fun!

You don't know about the future any more than anyone else does - including us old dudes, yet you continue to speak in absolutes regarding it..... Us old guys know better. 

Except that your way’s failed a bunch of times and ours hasn’t been tried. Fun game indeed. 

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Just now, wargograw said:

Except that your way’s failed a bunch of times and ours hasn’t been tried. Fun game indeed. 

So far it's going swimmingly. 

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All according to plan, yes. Sorry you didn’t read the warning label that came with this regime. 

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7 minutes ago, wargograw said:

All according to plan, yes. Sorry you didn’t read the warning label that came with this regime. 

I did see a label but it was written in hieroglyphics..... Something about a monkey, a doorknob and a humping motion? 

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7 minutes ago, D Bone said:

I did see a label but it was written in hieroglyphics..... Something about a monkey, a doorknob and a humping motion? 

Na its Larry Curly and Moe

 

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"I have some moneyball guys in our FO that I am really into these days"-Sashi Brown

 

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Well, I would say that we could agree in the beginning of the season that we needed a CB and FS. So the roster wasn't looking good from the beginning, in my opinion.

Being beaten by a 4th quater expert primarily pass based offense with a comeback quaterback shouldn't surprise anyone in the room. I thought it would be an X rated game and actually we held till the end of the 3rd quater when we lost Kizer, who was hot, for two drives.

I still say that our offense keeps down our defense. It happens with all the teams, if offense or defense doesn't work, the other resents. I agree that the points allowed stat is the most important one, but I would like to know how many snaps our defense gets in comparison with other teams. The possesion time is not the best reference because teams tend to attack our secondary instead of running the ball, but if you give more snaps to the other team, they got more chances to scoring.

So, I think defense looks 'promising', because players are young and the roster lacks some depth/skill players, which is something we knew in the offseason, but it's not good by any means. Anyway, I'd say it is difficult to judge with such a terrible offense. 

And I don't understand why if Hue leaves, Williams does it too. Could someone explain me, please?

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2 hours ago, Nero said:

I still say that our offense keeps down our defense. It happens with all the teams, if offense or defense doesn't work, the other resents. I agree that the points allowed stat is the most important one, but I would like to know how many snaps our defense gets in comparison with other teams. The possesion time is not the best reference because teams tend to attack our secondary instead of running the ball, but if you give more snaps to the other team, they got more chances to scoring.

So, I think defense looks 'promising', because players are young and the roster lacks some depth/skill players, which is something we knew in the offseason, but it's not good by any means. Anyway, I'd say it is difficult to judge with such a terrible offense. 

And I don't understand why if Hue leaves, Williams does it too. Could someone explain me, please?

In a couple of games, our offense has not helped the defense at all.   However, Indy, Houston, and Cincy marched up and down the field in the first half of the game.   I don't care what the offense was doing in those games, the defense has to do something to keep the team in the game in the first half.    There are some potentially good players on defense and its better than it was in years past (which isn't saying much) because the bar for the defense was so low but its far from a good defense. 

Only the people who don't want anything to change will say that Williams has to go if Hue is fired...they have no proof of this but they are reisistant to any change and want to see this shit show come back for another year and only after another year of bad playcalling,  stupifying clock management, and absurd use of time outs will they accept that Coach Huey is a bad HC.   There is no reason that Williams couldn't stay with a new HC.   In fact, again....look at the Rams for 2 reasons...one their defense seems to be just fine without Williams so apparently losing him didn't hurt them all that much, but also, I would think that a new young innovative hungry head coach would want to keep a respected DC around to make his job easier, much like what the Rams did when they hired Phillips to coach the defense.

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