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Clevfan4life

Our defense is #6 in rushing and #9 overall.

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You guys need to think about that before you clamor for another regime change. That's in ONE Shmucking YEAR under "coffee fetcher" Williams. I'm looking right at you Ghoolie. Anyway, seriously....I know there's a Sheet ton wrong with this franchise still. I get it. But remember the last time we felt semi good about our defense? It was when Jauron was here. But we all hated Shurmur and were like get this Kunt out of here. Well then we hire Chudzinski but he brings in Ray Horton. Not exactly sure if that was Chuds call cause Jauron didn't want to stay or if Chud could have kept Jauron...I dunno. But point is HC changes, this usually happens. We've got goofballs here asking to bring in Rex footboy Ryan.....well you can kilss Williams good bye cause Rex runs what Pettine ran here. How'd that work out for us? Please please please can we shut the Shmuck up about staff changes? We have a DC here now that in one year has turned a team laden with mediocre to less than mediocre talent at some very key positions, into a top 10 defense.

We're still 18'th in pass defense but I think that's more a product of our poor pass rush instead of on the secondary.

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The only ranking that matters  0-8

Blown out in the first half by Houston, Cincinatti and Indianapolis.

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21-3 after halftime, when they played so well in the second half.  Plus, it was not a matter of the Browns turning it over, in that second half, except the one fumble on the first play, where it went to 15-13. 

It is a case of the pass defense being SUCKASS!!!!

Are they ever going to put proper pressure on a QB?   Are they going to get someone who will actually cover the receivers?  (mostly I see them worrying about covering the grass.  Last time I looked, grass cannot make catches.)

Priority in FA/draft:  Defensive backs who can cover.  The guys we got....not so good.

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Actually, our D has to play so much of the game that as the second half wears on...they wear out.

To oversimplify, right now, I DON'T GIVE A RATS-FREAKIN-butt ABOUT DEFENSE.  

It takes offense to have a real football team.  It takes offense to win football games.  (the defense doesn't score enough points to win a game)  Defense is a luxury.  Offense is the staple.

 

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4 minutes ago, Orion said:

Actually, our D has to play so much of the game that as the second half wears on...they wear out.

To oversimplify, right now, I DON'T GIVE A RATS-FREAKIN-butt ABOUT DEFENSE.  

It takes offense to have a real football team.  It takes offense to win football games.  (the defense doesn't score enough points to win a game)  Defense is a luxury.  Offense is the staple.

 

It takes both....all three actually:   Offense, defense, and special teams.   And our STs are playing about as poorly as the rest of the team. Missed FGs and extra pts.  flubbed punts, etc. etc. 

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12 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

It takes both....all three actually:  

Yes...to win championships.    But with an offense you at least have a fighting chance.  If nothing else, you're entertaining.  We're not entertaining!  We're comparable to the opponent of the Harlem Globetrotters.  

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1 minute ago, Orion said:

Yes...to win championships.    But with an offense you at least have a fighting chance.  If nothing else, you're entertaining.  We're not entertaining!  We're comparable to the opponent of the Harlem Globetrotters.  

The opponent of the Harlem Globetrotters are entertaining as well.   The Browns are not.

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4 minutes ago, Mark O said:

The opponent of the Harlem Globetrotters are entertaining as well.   The Browns are not.

Maann...it's embarrassing when we're not as entertaining as the Generals.  (was the Generals their name?) 

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2 minutes ago, Orion said:

Maann...it's embarrassing when we're not as entertaining as the Generals.  (was the Generals their name?) 

Yep, the Washington Generals.

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with that being said, if we could only sustain drives and score TD's then we would look like a real team.

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The defense has played well - in spurts, and overall I like Gregg and his scheme and would like to see him back for sure..... and those defensive stats are even more impressive considering our "once in a lifetime physical freak" Courtney Brown v2.0 has missed most of his first NFL season due to football being a tough sport I guess..... 

I am scared to death of the upcoming draft if this 'BrainTrust' FO is still in charge and unchanged. I like Hue the man and think he's a swell guy, but the only way I can tolerate him staying in charge is if he hires an OC AND lets that OC have full control both during the week and on game day..... But I have serious doubts that Hue can or will relinquish his control over the offense / QBs. 

I don't want a full purge, but one, two or even three victims are in the cross hairs for sure, be it fired, reallocated or otherwise.  

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45 minutes ago, TopDawg31 said:

with that being said, if we could only sustain drives 

Well that's the very crux of it right?   We run 3 -6 plays from scrimmage, punt and the D is back out there working time and a half.  That's bass ackwards. 

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Do u guys remember a few years ago when hoyer was scoring 20+ points but we were still losing games cause other teams were scoring 30+? Dont tell me u now dint give a Sheet about defense. Our offense is horrendous. Not even avg. An avg offense would have allowed this def to at least win a few games. 

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 This thread bar the opening post makes me sad, 0 8 is all that matters, I dont care about the defense cos of the offense. IF Haslam doesnt blow this whole thing up I want an apology from most of you when this TEAM is very good, the defense is on the way there, the O line is there. The QB will come, and when it does, make sure you admit defeat  

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Its amazing how few people are willing to give the team "some" credit. I guarantee if the roles were reversed and our offense was top 10 but the defense was among the worst and we were still 1-7 or most likely still 0-8.....u guys would be calling for coffee boys head. 

I for one am tickled pink that a guy can come in and turn this group of mostly avg players into a serviceable nfl defense. No one can argue with me that aside from danny, most of our d line would struggle to make the starting lineups of most of the teams in the NFL save perhaps the very bottom 3-4 defensive teams. 

I think williams decided that this year, this team is gonna stop the run period. He realizes asking the front guys to rush the passer AND stop the run is too next level so we'll concentrate on keeping OL off the LB'ers and to that end the team has some real talent there. Im starting to warm on kirksey and schobert and collins is as advertised, one of the best in the NFL hands down. 

Guys please let this be built properly. Let this def stew for years. Next season will be year 2 and we'll get a healthy garrett back so we'll see finally who he is and we might pick up a FA DE in the offseason who knows. We've seen what garrett is capable of if he can stay on the field. He hasnt played at greater that 80/85% in any of his games and he quickly showed he's head and shoulders above everyone else in the pass rushing skillset. Doublevthe sacks in less than half the games of the next closest guy. If a vet like ansah can be brought here holy fukking sht with that LB'ing corp behind that front 4. 

And i dont want to forget the secondary completely. Mccourty and calhoun are making plays i  havent seen from a browns secondary in like 10 years. These guys also have no fear going up against the run game. How long have we been frustrated by DB's that dive for cover like a grenade was tossed at the sight of a RB coming at them?

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I'd give the defense a lot of credit if i didn't in person see them get gashed for a million first half points against Cincy.   If I didn't see them gashed for 2 million points against Indy and also see them gashed for a million points against Houston.   That's 3 shitty performances in the first half out of 8 games.    Getting your ass handed to you in the first half of 3 games out of 8 isn't a serviceable defense. 

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33 minutes ago, Mark O said:

I'd give the defense a lot of credit if i didn't in person see them get gashed for a million first half points against Cincy.   If I didn't see them gashed for 2 million points against Indy and also see them gashed for a million points against Houston.   That's 3 shitty performances in the first half out of 8 games.    Getting your butt handed to you in the first half of 3 games out of 8 isn't a serviceable defense. 

Pass defense. We're 18th for a reason. Being overall a top 10 defense tho is actually a very serviceable defense wtf are u talking about? If this were 5 years into the rebuild perhaps, but being one fukking year in and we're 6th in stopping the run and 9th overall? Exactly how long have u been a browns fan? 

Norhing was more frustrating to me than seeing a pretty damn good offense a few years ago that got torp'd by an ateocious defense that lost games when our offense score 28-30 pts. We missed out on the playoffs that year cause our defense was pure sht. So stop it with this omg our defense gave up a bunch of points in a few games when they were on the field constantly and were the recipients of bad field position fumbles and int's. They're not gonna be the ole 85 bears the first year. 

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7 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

So stop it with this omg our defense gave up a bunch of points in a few games when they were on the field constantly and were the recipients of bad field position fumbles and int's. They're not gonna be the ole 85 bears the first year. 

 

I'm talking about the first half in games in which they were completely destroyed.  If they're tired in the first half of games they need to all be released and find some guys who aren't pussies.

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they are tough. and 0-8. and gassed by the middle of the 3rd.

once an opposing rb makes it past the first flank of defense he might as well just run it 56 yards for a td. same with wrs. trent green talking about how nassib is 'flying all over the field today' but after the first quarter these big picks dissolved like salt in the rain.

yep, von miller is great too. so is jj watt and supposedly myles garrett (who?).

don't mean S.H.I.T.

numbers guys that believe in rankings as something are as good as analytic FO personnel. they suck.

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3 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Do u guys remember a few years ago when hoyer was scoring 20+ points but we were still losing games cause other teams were scoring 30+?

Yeah.  Wasn't exactly what we were looking for.  But at least it was kind of exciting.  And when our offense took the field we actually had 'some' confidence that they could make something happen.  (the Hoyer/Benjamin pair have their jersey's in a display case in the HOF)  -  When our current offense takes the field...there isn't anyone here that can tell me they have the least bit of confidence that the offense can put a drive to a TD together.  

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1 hour ago, Mark O said:

 

I'm talking about the first half in games in which they were completely destroyed.  If they're tired in the first half of games they need to all be released and find some guys who aren't pussies.

Yes i rem those games. They got torched in the passing game cause we got no pressure on the qb and we had some growing pains at safety. They're still trying to figure out this warning track scheme with the safety, williams had ibrahim doung it on sunday so it wasnt just a peppers thing. 

So look, u know full well ive been salting our 2nd year DE's pressure production all year. So im not glossing over glaring deficiencies. Neither nassib, ogbah or orchard has gotten much real time pressure on qb's. Its only when a qb holds the ball too long, like kizer...that they've been able to spin off their blocker and fet near the qb.

We need pressure around the qb as he hits that back foot. Only garrett gave us a solid glimpse of that. Once we can consistently force the ball out early the coverage wil improve. Throws will be off timing just a hair and you'll start to see more bat downs and outright int's. 

But building a defense that learns to stop the run with its eyes closed, like second nature, than slowly build up the pass rush while still retaining that run stop intuition....hey thats how juggernauts are built. 

Remember the great pass rushing defenses the colts had when freeney and manning were in their prime? The DC was ron meeks and his philosophy there was we'll stop the run on the way to the qb. Not surprisingly the run def was awful and cost the colts an extra sb or two. They only got away with thatbphilosophy because manning was moon gaping opponents anoos's by halftime so teams couldnt afford to run, theyhad to pass to keep up. But all historically great defenses started as stone walls against the run. Bears, ravens, broncos etc

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7 hours ago, Mark O said:

The only ranking that matters  0-8

Blown out in the first half by Houston, Cincinatti and Indianapolis.

You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.

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5 minutes ago, wargograw said:

You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.

i get that as well....but what would be the solution in your opinion? just deal with another no win season? or make changes? who? for what?

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