Hogan Named Starter

[Westside Steve]

17 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Kevin Hogan is 25 years old, spent five years in college, started four years in a pro-style offense, and had a year of NFL experience. Kizer is 21 years old, spent three years in college, started two years in a shotgun/read option offense, and is a rookie.

It shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that Hogan seems more advanced as a NFL QB. I would hope so.

 

Not only that but unless you perform on a professional level none of that background matters.

WSS

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Kevin Hogan is 25 years old, spent five years in college, started four years in a pro-style offense, and had a year of NFL experience. Kizer is 21 years old, spent three years in college, started two years in a shotgun/read option offense, and is a rookie.

It shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that Hogan seems more advanced as a NFL QB. I would hope so.

 

Exactly Dutch!  Good points!

That's why those of us understanding such a difference didn't understand the need to start the kid before he was ready on a talent pool coming off a 1-15 record.  Kizer just turned 21 in the last 4 or 5 months or so and started 2 years in a college offense his1st NFL team has to de-program.  I've always thought prevention was easier than intervention especially all the bionic arms with bad habits (DA & Weeden) before Kizer that could never break their bad habits long enough for tenure.

Here's the thing, IF Kizer was a huge priority why was he the 4th guy we drafter instead of the first or second?  The reason I ask such a thing is there was a lot of polarization about this kid by draft analysts and scouts. Consequently, not everyone sees him as a Peyton Manning/Troy Aikman kind of QB worth allowing the forfeits throughout his growing pains

[jiggins7919]

Here's something else:  Much was made about our poor WR group, and rightfully so.  Many of us spoke about how it was unfair for Kizer, and how it would be difficult to gauge his progress because he didn't have people that could win routes and get open.  Well, Hogan comes into the game in the second half and you don't see any drops, you don't see a guy scared to make the throw, and you see someone who spreads the ball around.  Hogan definitely doesn't lock onto any one player, and he'll go to Njoku, Devalve, Duke, Crow, Dreggs, Higgins, or Louis.  He'll literally throw it to anyone who is open.  The crazy thing is how Hogan immediately looks for that intermediate-deep throw, which is NOT considered easy because you have to fit it over people, and under the secondary, yet he routinely does this.  Now, I DO think Hogan is going to get himself absolutely KILLED soon with his read-option play.  He's going to hold the ball too long, or not give it to the back, or whatever.  It's a risky play, but it's tough not to run it because we do it well with Hogan.  

One of my favorite things about Hogan is his ability to throw it to Njoku.  He throws that soft pillow-ball that gives people a chance to go up and grab it, similar to Kessler.  How many throws down the field has Kizer even ATTEMPTED to Njoku?  Something else that's very obvious to the naked eye is how quickly Hogan makes his decision and then lets it ride.  He's not hesitating at all, no matter what type of throw it is.  Short throw?  Middle distance?  It's coming out hot, and it's coming out in a way that gives our guys a chance to get YAC.  Remember YAC?  Hogan will throw the slant, the seam, and whatever else, and his accuracy is something special so far.  In fact, I don't even remember him HAVING that kind of accuracy.  The ball just...gets there.  

Some people have intimated that Hogan will play until after the bye week, and then we'll throw Kizer back into the mix.  I disagree.  I want to know what Hogan can REALLY do, and I don't think I'm going to know that with just two starts.  I know what Kizer can do, and that's give the ball to the wrong effing team when we're about to score.  I've seen enough of that for a lifetime.  You know what I DO want to see?  I want to see Hogan in the red zone, specifically around the ten yard line...the place where Kizer hands the ball to the other team.  I want to see what plays we call, and see what Hogan does.  Hogan makes quick decisions, but the red zone is an entirely different animal.  Everything is tighter and the windows are tiny if there at all.  I actually think that if Hogan wins EITHER of these two games, or even keeps them CLOSE, we're starting him for a while.  

[mjp28]

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Not only that but unless you perform on a professional level none of that background matters.

WSS

Several decades ago I'd agree but now especially a top recruit and player in an upper D-1A conference school the camps, weight training, video everything, better coaching and more these players are more ready than ever to compete at the professional level. This even creeps down into the better D-1AA schools I've seen that at my Alma Mater YSU from when I began in 1968 through the 1990s and to today. Their indoor practice facility is unbelievable better than the pros years back.

CHECK IT OUT, unbelievable :

http://www.ysusports.com/information/facilities/watts

Now is Hogan more advanced than Kizer at this point, absolutely. Kizer will be better in time.

[Dutch Oven]

16 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Several decades ago I'd agree but now especially a top recruit and player in an upper D-1A conference school the camps, weight training, video everything, better coaching and more these players are more ready than ever to compete at the professional level. This even creeps down into the better D-1AA schools I've seen that at my Alma Mater YSU from when I began in 1968 through the 1990s and to today. Their indoor practice facility is unbelievable better than the pros years back.

CHECK IT OUT, unbelievable :

http://www.ysusports.com/information/facilities/watts

Now is Hogan more advanced than Kizer at this point, absolutely. Kizer will be better in time.

IMO neither is the Browns QB of the future. He'll be drafted at the end of April.

[mjp28]

Just now, Dutch Oven said:

IMO neither is the Browns QB of the future. He'll be drafted at the end of April.

Yes but both IMO, time will tell, both might find journeymen positions in the NFL.....if they don't get the crap beat outta them in Cleveland first.

Hey Dutch did you check out the YSU WATTS facility?  Unreal especially in person, the Watson and Tressel families kicked in $1 million to get it started, plus the whole YSU campus is unreal, I graduated in 1975 and 1985 and can't believe it driving through the campus. They also just completely  remade Wick Avenue. ....this is big time JIM TRESSEL’S vision, plus getting Bo Pelini to come to YSU helped in part due to Nebraska having to pay him a $7M early termination fee. 

GO YSU!

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

Yes but both IMO, time will tell, both might find journeymen positions in the NFL.....if they don't get the crap beat outta them in Cleveland first.

Hey Dutch did you check out the YSU WATTS facility?  Unreal especially in person, the Watson and Tressel families kicked in $1 million to get it started, plus the whole YSU campus is unreal, I graduated in 1975 and 1985 and can't believe it driving through the campus. They also just completely  remade Wick Avenue. ....this is big time JIM TRESSEL’S vision, plus getting Bo Pelini to come to YSU helped in part due to Nebraska having to pay him a $7M early termination fee. 

GO YSU!

I haven't been in it, but I've drove by it a few times. The last time I drove past YSU's stadium was when I was coming back from getting ribs at the Royal Oaks and a B-24 was flying overhead as I drove by the stadium. Pretty awesome!

 

[Westside Steve]

16 hours ago, Orion said:

My problem with your last point is that our FO doesn't seem to WANT to spend a high pick on a QB.  It seems they think no QB is worth it.  OTHER teams do but our guys don't.  Which is something that I just don't understand because it's a freakin' QB league.  

Honestly, I don't REALLY think that Hogan is gonna prove to be our ANSWER at QB.  But I HOPE he is.  

It could be that so far one has not struck them as being worth a number one or number two. And had they spent a number one and gotten Jared Goff we would have been a lot less happy about that. It does seem that the crop is better this year 2018 so if we are in that position again I would hope they pull the trigger on the best Prospect. I don't think any of the 2017 prospects were worth the number one pick.

Still until they prove that they know shjt from Shinola about picking football players I'm not all that choked up about the possibility.

WSS

 

[Orion]

44 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

so far one has not struck them as being worth a number one or number two.

Yes.  But my point is that OTHER teams DID think they were worth it.  And we have a lawyer in charge of our roster  (the head of our Harvard Think Tank).  - It has to be just the slightest bit disconcerting.  

---------------------

A side 'note'  -  checked out your sig......you're a very good singer!   

My crappy voice can be heard here:    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWpeoXsjHzQ

 

[Westside Steve]

26 minutes ago, Orion said:

Yes.  But my point is that OTHER teams DID think they were worth it.  And we have a lawyer in charge of our roster  (the head of our Harvard Think Tank).  - It has to be just the slightest bit disconcerting.  

---------------------

A side 'note'  -  checked out your sig......you're a very good singer!   

My crappy voice can be heard here:    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWpeoXsjHzQ

 

I agree on all counts.  but wasn't Jared Goff the first guy taken and doesn't he fall short? Carson Wentz was not so highly rated is that there was a consensus. So far Sam darnold is.

And again last year it was agreed but the quarterback draft was one of the weakest in recent memory. 2018 is said to be a lot better.

WSS

[PoeticG]

Damn, my boy. 

 

[Orion]

3 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

wasn't Jared Goff the first guy taken and doesn't he fall short?

He's doing pretty well this year.  And as for Wentz, he's doing well also.  I've made it no secret that I wanted Wentz.  He wasn't from a top school but he had all of the qualities that you want from a QB.   I understand that the last two drafts were not seen as GREAT QB drafts...but again, teams so something in the QB's (including Trubisky) that made them jump up the draft board to grab them.   

As January rolls around we'll see if THIS year's crop is still rated as a high draft selection bunch or not.

[Westside Steve]

6 minutes ago, Orion said:

He's doing pretty well this year.  And as for Wentz, he's doing well also.  I've made it no secret that I wanted Wentz.  He wasn't from a top school but he had all of the qualities that you want from a QB.   I understand that the last two drafts were not seen as GREAT QB drafts...but again, teams so something in the QB's (including Trubisky) that made them jump up the draft board to grab them.   

As January rolls around we'll see if THIS year's crop is still rated as a high draft selection bunch or not.

Yes I liked Wentz better than Goff.

Still I'm concerned the fo will want to go with the budget quarterback like we did with DeShone Kizer. And again I haven't closed the book on him but if we can get a top prospect...

 

Ps are you Joe?

WSS

[Orion]

3 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

I haven't closed the book on him but if we can get a top prospect...

Yup, can't close the book on a 21 yr old with 4 1/2 games under his belt....but we'll see how the season plays out.  (budget QB...   that's a good one)

[Dutch Oven]

2 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Yes I liked Wentz better than Goff.

I was a Goff guy, liked the fact that he played against better competition, had about 2.5 times the pass attempts in college than Wentz, and that I actually was able to watch him play a few times didn't hurt. My preference looked downright stupid last season, I'm glad Goff has come around to make it a fair fight.

[Westside Steve]

3 minutes ago, Orion said:

Yup, can't close the book on a 21 yr old with 4 1/2 games under his belt....but we'll see how the season plays out.  (budget QB...   that's a good one)

But he wasn't the first second or third quarterback taken in a weak draft, so if they get a chance to do better closing the book on him would be a less bitter pill then closing the book on Jared Goff or Carson Wentz if they floundered.

WSS

[Tour2ma]

22 hours ago, Orion said:

Lmao... was the first "holiday" I thought of when I posted about wanting to spend the holiday's at Po's house...

[Flugel]

15 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Lmao... was the first "holiday" I thought of when I posted about wanting to spend the holiday's at Po's house...

God bless ya!  I'm lucky I didn't have any beverage in my mouth. 

That said, I love Po's arguments for Hogan. He'd done great. When you get right down to it - over the last 10-12 years, it hasn't been the QBs we've drafted that have turned out to be our most efficient passers or QBs that win most frequently here. Here's some examples:

1) Charlie Frye (1st pick of rd 3) was supposed to tutor Brady Quinn (1st rd pick in 2007) - Frye started us off 0-1 with a blowout loss to Pittsburgh.  So?  Here comes Derek Anderson for a 10-5 record with 29 TD passes. Even though that Cinderella story had an early midnight - 10-5 football is a lot more fun than looking like an Arena Football Team with an NFL schedule.  DA did more for this team than both those draft picks combined (even if most of that was in 1 year).

2) Then came Brandon Weeden in round 1 to be easily outplayed by journeyman Brian Hoyer prior to injury.  

3) Not to worry though, we drafted Johnny Manziel in round 1 (2014).  But, back then it was popular to say we were supposed to let a 21 year old 1st round QB (with only 2 seasons of college football) sit, watch and learn from the sidelines. Well, Brian Hoyer got us off to a 7-4 start.  Even though we lost our last 5 games in the beginning of our 3-18 regression - Hoyer didn't start all of our last 5 games in 2014.

4) Aside from far more efficient numbers reflecting more YAC than YUCK, all Kevin Hogan has to do is top a winning percentage of 0.  And, hopefully he doesn't keep us topping the league with turnovers from the QB position by a country mile.  Yes, I understand Hogan's arm is only as strong as Andy Dalton's. The last time Hue coached Dalton, Cincy was 12-4.  Have they even looked close to that level since he left?  They were 6-9-1 last year...  FWIW, our absent minded OC/HC looks less absent minded when he's working with the Andy Dalton equivalent arm strength this year...  There's far less panic and despair in his play calling when he has the right QB on the field at least heading into to today...  All of a sudden we have receivers open and catching 16 of Hogan's 19 throws. 

 

[mjp28]

17 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I haven't been in it, but I've drove by it a few times. The last time I drove past YSU's stadium was when I was coming back from getting ribs at the Royal Oaks and a B-24 was flying overhead as I drove by the stadium. Pretty awesome!

 

Not to go too OT but it is football related....    I remember a few years back when the 49ers were going to the East Coast for multiple games they practiced at the YSU WATTS  indoor practice facility and stayed and ate locally rather than jet back to SF, won both games and we're impressed.....plus the local ownership ties had a hand in it.

And ribs at the Oaks, I haven't been there in a long time used to be a dive hangout during college and for sure haven't been there  since the BAR RESCUE  episode but did see it on TV. Some great eating places around Y-town, a lot going on now........

ALSO http://wkbn.com/2017/10/13/popular-social-media-sports-blog-coming-to-youngstown-state/

YOUNGSTOWN, Ohio (WKBN) – Saturday is a big game for YSU — the ‘Guins take on North Dakota State. To help amp people up for the game, Barstool Sports — a sports and pop culture media company with a huge social media presence — is coming to town.

Barstool is popular with the college demographic and social media has been excited about its visit all week.

Behind MVR in Youngstown, the Barstool Tailgate Show Bus is sitting in anticipation for the pre-game activities on Saturday.

“They go across the country to the biggest game of the week, which is awesome that they picked us because that shows how big this game is in general,” Justin Summers said.

Barstool’s El Presidente Dave Portnoy posted a poll on Twitter last week, asking fans to vote if the show should come to YSU or Minnesota. YSU got 36,000 votes but 37,000 people voted for Minnesota.

Still, they decided to come to Youngstown.

“That’s awesome in general because Minneapolis has 5.6 million people and there’s only 56,000 people in Youngstown. So the fact that they got 36,000 votes is amazing and I think Barstool saw that and that’s why they wanted to come here,” Summers said.

A few months ago, Barstool came to a bocce tournament at MVR so when it was looking for a spot to hold Saturday’s tailgate, it turned back to the Casseeses......CONTINUED IN LINK.......

[mjp28]

Oh they did a review of Wedgewood Pizza in Austintown  (we go to Boardman right up the street) still our favorite carryout but there's plenty in this area!

https://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/barstool-pizza-review-wedgewood-pizza-youngstown-oh/

Football and pizza, finished mine yesterday,  ummmm.