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Hogan Named Starter

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While I think he's batshit crazy every now and again, what I like about PoG is he always talks about what he is seeing, and what he thinks is best....... He never condescendingly tells us that we are stupid for not believing what he does, or how he is the all knowing greatest Browns fan walking the planet, like a few others like to do here.

PoG is right about as often as he's wrong - like a lot of us here, and here's to hoping that he is 100% right on Hogan!

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On 10/11/2017 at 9:16 AM, wargograw said:

I’m all for this as long as it’s not an indication of pressure on Hue. 

???  this is the nfl. Of course there is pressure on a guy who is 1-20.  Jesus christ.  

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I can't believe we are giving an nfl start to kevin fauckin hogan.  He has a 3 second windup and his release point looks like something out of a ukranian shotput competiton.  I watched this guy look like hot garbage playing for stanford for most of his career.

I'd watch those games and think "huh, if only stanford had a decent qb they would be pretty good".  

 

And we're giving him an nfl start?  jesus christ.  Kizer blows and has no business starting games in the nfl, but at least he has a few qualities that could pass for an nfl qb.  Still terrible though, but at least him throwing the ball resembles an actual qb...even if we have no idea where its going.  

 

Kevin Hogan's mechanics makes Tim Tebow look like Tom Brady.  

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6 hours ago, Orion said:

Let's hold off on the 'wasting time' thought until we've seen the guy in action.  (My God, I'm sounding like Poetic.  What's happened to me??!)

I can do that... starting live and in color this Sunday.

6 hours ago, CaineDeSoulis said:

we have 11 games to complete hogans evaluation... good thing we stopped wasting time on kizer...

Care to make it interesting?

Say set the over/under on Hogan starts when both choices are healthy at 5.5 and back our guy?

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3 hours ago, jcam222 said:

Why not hope POG is right. For fk sake this team could use a little luck from the guy who replaced Luck 

Sure... also hoped Santa was real once upon a time...

Did I just burst another of Po's bubbles?

5 hours ago, jcam222 said:

What happens if we go 3-2 in those? Hell even 2-3

2-3? Easy... look at Kizer.

3-2? Gets tougher, but whatever limited success Hogan may have still leaves the questions of Kizer and whether we need to aggressively pursue a QB in the Draft. The latter is the question to which I keep coming back.

5 hours ago, PoeticG said:

You are not going to be seeing the 0-5 Browns team this weekend. You are going to see that 4-0 Preseason team that was looking outstanding. Hogan changes this team, the QB is the Trigger Man. He's a PG (point guard) on the Gridiron. We seen Kizer go 0-5 and Hogan kept it close a couple games. He also saved us from getting skunked. What happens is Hogan goes 3-0 going into the BYE week? What happens then? Better yet, what happens when Hollywood Hogan goes 5-0 over that stretch, will you still be clamoring for Kizer? 

5-0, no not clamoring. Care to make it interesting? Say an O/U of 2.5 wins?

5 hours ago, PoeticG said:

What I like about Hogan is his perseverance. He's done it the right way. NOTHING has been given to him, he's worked his way up from Practice Squad to Face of the Franchise.

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Laying it on nice and thick, aren't we?

Just a tad  at the tail end... maybe a tad-and-a-half...

 

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9 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I can do that... starting live and in color this Sunday.

Care to make it interesting?

Say set the over/under on Hogan starts when both choices are healthy at 5.5 and back our guy?

I'll be there too....  We win, I'll buy you a drink at Papasitos.  Thank God I'm not flying down to watch another Kizer s**t show. 

No prediction but- if Hogan really is as bad as you think he is- you're going to see Kizer sooner rather than later- say after a three game audition. Now LOL, if Hogan is the Hero- Kizer's going to get benched indefinitely.

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Not saying "bad", h... likely it'll be better than the show Kizer would have put on. But also expect it just won't be good enough.

And thanks to the effin Yankees, I'll be booking it out of Houston ASAP after the game... I have a three hour drive from the bro-in-law's to home and it'll take an hour to clear the stadium parking and get to his house.. Hope it's celebratory drive... but I doubt it.

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8 hours ago, jcam222 said:

Why not hope POG is right. For fk sake this team could use a little luck from the guy who replaced Luck 

I'm sorry if I roll my eyes at the thought that Kevin Hogan is Steve Young, the face of the Browns franchise, a future Hall of Famer, and whatever nonsense PoG has described Hogan as.

And I'll tell you what, I don't want to see excuse after excuse for why the Browns lose this Sunday vs Houston (if that happens) with Hogan under center. PoG said that wins and losses are all that matter, and with Hogan the Browns will be a winning team. We'll see.

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11 hours ago, jcam222 said:

What happens if we go 3-2 in those? Hell even 2-3

I don't think the W/L situation matters during Hogan's reign.  The question is How does he perform?  Is he doing HIS job well?  The QB will not be able to control receivers running incorrect routes or dropping well placed passes.  Or RB's fumbling balls, or kickers shanking FG's, or the defense playing poorly.  Hogan needs to be judged on his own performance(s).  

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I'm with you on this, PoG...I think Hogan is going to make the most of his chance. This will be similar to the run that Hoyer had. He could save Hue's job.

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13 hours ago, PoeticG said:

You are not going to be seeing the 0-5 Browns team this weekend. You are going to see that 4-0 Preseason team that was looking outstanding. Hogan changes this team, the QB is the Trigger Man. He's a PG (point guard) on the Gridiron. We seen Kizer go 0-5 and Hogan kept it close a couple games. He also saved us from getting skunked. What happens is Hogan goes 3-0 going into the BYE week? What happens then? Better yet, what happens when Hollywood Hogan goes 5-0 over that stretch, will you still be clamoring for Kizer? 

love you man but..........for real?

13 hours ago, PoeticG said:

What I like about Hogan is his perseverance. He's done it the right way. NOTHING has been given to him, he's worked his way up from Practice Squad to Face of the Franchise. There would not be a better story in all of Pro Football if Hogan is who I think he is. 

what was the name of the guy from south caroline that everyone was ;clamoring' over to play and be the starter? geez, his name slips my mind.............. check out his wiki page. where is he now? exactly.

9 hours ago, Tacosman said:

 

I can't believe we are giving an nfl start to kevin fauckin hogan.  He has a 3 second windup and his release point looks like something out of a ukranian shotput competiton.  I watched this guy look like hot garbage playing for stanford for most of his career.

I'd watch those games and think "huh, if only stanford had a decent qb they would be pretty good".  

 

And we're giving him an nfl start?  jesus christ.  Kizer blows and has no business starting games in the nfl, but at least he has a few qualities that could pass for an nfl qb.  Still terrible though, but at least him throwing the ball resembles an actual qb...even if we have no idea where its going.  

 

Kevin Hogan's mechanics makes Tim Tebow look like Tom Brady.  

now that is some funny shart right there!!!!!!!!!

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18 minutes ago, miktoxic said:

love you man but..........for real?

what was the name of the guy from south caroline that everyone was ;clamoring' over to play and be the starter? geez, his name slips my mind.............. check out his wiki page. where is he now? exactly.

now that is some funny shart right there!!!!!!!!!

OK, it was Connor Shaw, broke his leg  playing for Da 🐻 s. At worst we found a decent backup. 😀

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4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

And I'll tell you what, I don't want to see excuse after excuse for why the Browns lose this Sunday vs Houston (if that happens) with Hogan under center.

If you are serious, then you better close that loophole... pronto. If you do not, then excuse one will be: Hue put Kevin in the gun too much...

My name is Tour and I am here to help...

4 hours ago, Orion said:

I don't think the W/L situation matters during Hogan's reign.  The question is How does he perform?  Is he doing HIS job well?  The QB will not be able to control receivers running incorrect routes or dropping well placed passes.  Or RB's fumbling balls, or kickers shanking FG's, or the defense playing poorly.  Hogan needs to be judged on his own performance(s).  

In other words... just like Kizer has been judged... image.gif.19b3790f781f5cec2bbae24fd21545be.gif

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Guess who...

Career Stats more
Season Team   Passing Rushing Fumbles
  G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
2017 Cleveland Browns 3 0 26 38 68.4 377 9.9 3 2 2 8 104.8 5 35 7.0 0 -- --
 
2016 Cleveland Browns 4 0 14 26 53.8 104 4.0 0 2 2 10 31.6 8 105 13.1 1 -- --
 
TOTAL 40 64 62.5 481 7.5 3 4 4 18 75.1 13 140 10.8 1 0 0

 

Nice rushing total...

 

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18 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Guess who...

Career Stats more
Season Team   Passing Rushing Fumbles
  G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
2017 Cleveland Browns 3 0 26 38 68.4 377 9.9 3 2 2 8 104.8 5 35 7.0 0 -- --
 
2016 Cleveland Browns 4 0 14 26 53.8 104 4.0 0 2 2 10 31.6 8 105 13.1 1 -- --
 
TOTAL 40 64 62.5 481 7.5 3 4 4 18 75.1 13 140 10.8 1 0 0

 

Nice rushing total...

 

I’ll take Kevin Hogan for $400 Alex!

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19 hours ago, PoeticG said:

You are not going to be seeing the 0-5 Browns team this weekend. You are going to see that 4-0 Preseason team that was looking outstanding. Hogan changes this team, the QB is the Trigger Man. He's a PG (point guard) on the Gridiron. We seen Kizer go 0-5 and Hogan kept it close a couple games. He also saved us from getting skunked. What happens is Hogan goes 3-0 going into the BYE week? What happens then? Better yet, what happens when Hollywood Hogan goes 5-0 over that stretch, will you still be clamoring for Kizer? 

really liked him while at Stanford

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On 10/12/2017 at 7:55 AM, medicineman said:

I can't smell anything from where I sit, only the truth and the truth is we freaking suck right now.

See if you can smell my finger.

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6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

In other words... just like Kizer has been judged... image.gif.19b3790f781f5cec2bbae24fd21545be.gif

Exactly.  Kizer actually requires even LESS judgement on W/L because he's a full fledged rookie.  Learning the playbook, the team, coaches, NFL, you name it.  Hogan at least has a year under his belt.

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Alright. Here's the real deal Dawgpound.

Last Season in his only game, Kevin Hogan set a record for longest run by a QB in Franchise history. AND. Became the 2nd QB in Browns history to throw for 100 and run for 100!- but, the first to do it as a rookie... I would add that he did this 12 days after being activated to active roster. 

Kevin Hogan was activated from the practice squad on October 11th last year and in 12 days he had to play against the Bengals. He had no starter reps, nothing. He wasn't even supposed to play, he wasn't ready to play and we lost badly. BUT, Hogan did do some things that were like, "what?- Dawg, he just did that." Then after that game he didn't get to play anymore. RG3 and Kessler were the guys. At first they would only bring him in to do wilddawg stuff during the game and then when Kessler went down he had to step in and do what he could. He couldn't help that the defense was literally giving up 'free points' out there. 

 

He has come a LONG ways from that wide eyed rookie in the lion's den. He's worked really hard to get better. He knows he has to get better, everyday. Every day you HAVE to get better, and that's not just lip service. You have to identify the problem and then put in a conscious effort toward correcting it. Hogan knows that he's unorthodox. And that's okay, it cool to be one of a kind. It's okay to be different, just get the job done. If that means working on footwork, correcting your base and allowing his throws to develop a fraction of a second quicker... Those are the guys that you want. Those are the type of guys that other guys go and make plays for. Hogan will make it work, he 'believes' he is going to win every battle, every down, every game. 

 

Hogan might wait a life-time and never get this opportunity again. 

I truly, truly believe that Hogan can win this game.

It's the Big Time and Hogan is the Starting QB of the Cleveland Browns!

IF he's the guy we need him to be, he will seize this opportunity and win. 

We are 0-5 and no team in NFL History has started a season 0-5 and went on to play in the playoffs. It would take a special team and special set of circumstance to pull off...

We need to become LEGENDS. For all time here on after the Browns will be remembered as- The Legendary Cleveland Browns. 

If we want it, let's embrace it. Let's go big or go home dawgs! It's gonna start with our passion and our belief that will then feed the players and coaches. It's on us. 

One game at a time. This game, this week- will mark the beginning to the greatest comeback of all time~

...so it begins...

 

 

 

 

 

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Who knows if it's a good decision? I'm not interested too much in predictions for this Sunday, the Browns have a way of leaving people scratching their heads. I know the Browns are outmatched, but can't get any read on how they are going to respond to the challenge. Makes it much more interesting.

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32 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Alright. Here's the real deal Dawgpound.

Last Season in his only game, Kevin Hogan set a record for longest run by a QB in Franchise history. AND. Became the 2nd QB in Browns history to throw for 100 and run for 100!- but, the first to do it as a rookie... I would add that he did this 12 days after being activated to active roster. 

Kevin Hogan was activated from the practice squad on October 11th last year and in 12 days he had to play against the Bengals. He had no starter reps, nothing. He wasn't even supposed to play, he wasn't ready to play and we lost badly. BUT, Hogan did do some things that were like, "what?- Dawg, he just did that." Then after that game he didn't get to play anymore. RG3 and Kessler were the guys. At first they would only bring him in to do wilddawg stuff during the game and then when Kessler went down he had to step in and do what he could. He couldn't help that the defense was literally giving up 'free points' out there. 

 

He has come a LONG ways from that wide eyed rookie in the lion's den. He's worked really hard to get better. He knows he has to get better, everyday. Every day you HAVE to get better, and that's not just lip service. You have to identify the problem and then put in a conscious effort toward correcting it. Hogan knows that he's unorthodox. And that's okay, it cool to be one of a kind. It's okay to be different, just get the job done. If that means working on footwork, correcting your base and allowing his throws to develop a fraction of a second quicker... Those are the guys that you want. Those are the type of guys that other guys go and make plays for. Hogan will make it work, he 'believes' he is going to win every battle, every down, every game. 

 

Hogan might wait a life-time and never get this opportunity again. 

I truly, truly believe that Hogan can win this game.

It's the Big Time and Hogan is the Starting QB of the Cleveland Browns!

IF he's the guy we need him to be, he will seize this opportunity and win. 

We are 0-5 and no team in NFL History has started a season 0-5 and went on to play in the playoffs. It would take a special team and special set of circumstance to pull off...

We need to become LEGENDS. For all time here on after the Browns will be remembered as- The Legendary Cleveland Browns. 

If we want it, let's embrace it. Let's go big or go home dawgs! It's gonna start with our passion and our belief that will then feed the players and coaches. It's on us. 

One game at a time. This game, this week- will mark the beginning to the greatest comeback of all time~

...so it begins...

Image result for linus in the pumpkin patch

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Alright here is my take. I'll break it down into a section on Hogan and one on Kizer. 

Hogan: Hogan has shown what a year in the NFL can do for a QB. More importantly he has shown what a year in the NFL learning on the side line while not getting your Sheet packed in can do for a QB. Physically Hogan isn't much different than Kessler. He may be able to push the ball a bit farther down the field, but other than that they are about the same. What's different between him and Kessler is 1# Kessler has become at least a bit gun shy from last year and 2# Hogan has never really had any real expectations laid on him. For example Kessler came into camp as the #1 guy, but since last year he has basically been told that if he doesn't start pushing the ball down field (the weakest part of his game) he wouldn't be playing. Now you compare Hogan to Kizer and physically they are night and day. Kizer is the picture of a franchise guy while Hogan looks more like a back up or WCO type QB. However Kizer has been expected to run an offense designed for a more experienced QB (this is Hues fault, look at Houston for what to do for a rookie QB). Hogan while not being a deep ball guy can make the reads, and he can make them much quicker. Not only that he can also audible more at the line.

Kizer: as mentioned, Kizer has been put in a bad situation but at the same time he hasn't done himself any favors. He went from taking too long on his reads being unwilling to dump the ball off, to someone who focuses souly on his first read to either then force the ball in or dumb it off. He either isn't willing or isn't smart enough to get to his 2nd or 3rd read. To make matters worse he has a Weeden arm. By this I mean that he doesn't do anything other than throw as hard as he can. Without more time to learn his reads or a more simplified offense he wasn't going to show improvement. He needs to spend time on the side line learning until at least after the bye week.

So what happens?: Hogan starts until the bye week and Kizer is then reinserted to start the rest of the season. The only way this doesn't happen is if Hogan plays lights out. I think Hogan plays well enough, maybe even well enough to win us a game, but I just don't see him playing good enough to keep Kizer on the side line. Fact of the matter is Kizer needs more games. The FO and coaching staff need to know what they have so they know whether or not to draft a QB early next year. At this point that looks like what will have to happen, but it's better to be sure instead of having to spend a high pick on a QB when you have a high pick with only 4 games under his belt. 

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2 hours ago, Harry Buffalo said:

Alright here is my take. I'll break it down into a section on Hogan and one on Kizer. 

Hogan: Hogan has shown what a year in the NFL can do for a QB. More importantly he has shown what a year in the NFL learning on the side line while not getting your Sheet packed in can do for a QB.Correct.  He has a year in the system, understands the playbook and progression(s).  As a rookie Kizer will be more naturally locking on the #1 read.  And if covered his progression would be slower.

 he doesn't do anything other than throw as hard as he can. He throws hard....but I saw him throw a nice floater...but I don't know if he can do it regularly.

The FO and coaching staff need to know what they have so they know whether or not to draft a QB early next year.  

My problem with your last point is that our FO doesn't seem to WANT to spend a high pick on a QB.  It seems they think no QB is worth it.  OTHER teams do but our guys don't.  Which is something that I just don't understand because it's a freakin' QB league.  

Honestly, I don't REALLY think that Hogan is gonna prove to be our ANSWER at QB.  But I HOPE he is.  

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7 hours ago, Orion said:

My problem with your last point is that our FO doesn't seem to WANT to spend a high pick on a QB.  It seems they think no QB is worth it.  OTHER teams do but our guys don't.  Which is something that I just don't understand because it's a freakin' QB league.   

My opinion has never waiver-ed on this O. Haslem already put SB in place of GM..the roster re-boot plan was already in. Haslem skips out owners meeting staying in Huejax's pocket to hire. Why? imo.. Huejax after McCarron's playoff game became tagged with "this great QB god of coaches". (in your words "The Great Pumpkin ;)).. With SB plan in tack they needed a coach that could take a average QB & turn him into Bart Starr..Right up Hue's alley when he goes back to his roots in Cali knowing Kessler & his family. Hue stood behind Goff & Wentz at pro day..How far was the cap between them & Kess was Hue's mission. The big mistake of SB was reporting Wentz was not a top 20 player/ nor FQB..I think he learned his lesson & not a word or future projection left his lips about passing on Watson..From coaching to FO they need to learn from there mistakes than sometimes learn to say nothing..SB could have easily said turning over our roster valued higher than taking Wentz..period.. 

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Pretty well said. I don't EXPECT Hogan to be the answer, but I sure as heck HOPE he is. And just why the heck not, right? Isn't it about our time to get something going for us? Why can't the Browns get a taste of something random that works out? Aside from the interception thrown against the Ravens, Hogan hasn't tossed too many bad ones. In fact, he's been pretty dang good. It's obvious the receivers prefer Hogan, mainly because he spreads it around and doesn't throw it 1000 miles per hour. 

And strangely enough, Kevin Hogan actually runs the offense that Hue Jackson likes. He's more athletic than given credit for, and he isn't afraid to throw the ball over the linebackers but in front of the DB's. Those are the throws Kizer simply won't attempt. You can't play this game scared. I've never seen Hogan scared. He comes off the bench and immediately throws it all over the place. That first TD to Njoku was just stupid. Over the one guy, to the right of the DB, and high enough for only our guy to make a play. No way Kizer ever makes that toss. 

As previously mentioned, it's a shame Hogan didn't start the Jets game. I believe we would've won, and we'd have a chance at 2 in a row this weekend. This game will be MUCH more difficult than last week, and we'll be facing a big play offense with a super star WR...our Achilles Heel. Deshaun Watson has TWENTY EIGHT passes of over 20 yards ALREADY. Let that sink in. 

Teams now have plenty of tape on Hogan. That little read-option play Hogan loves so much will get snuffed out, and GOD HELP Hogan if he tries to get cute near Clowney. He literally might get killed. However, this is Hue's chance to come up with some wrinkles. Things he couldn't trust Kizer to do. For instance, a read-option THROW. Fake the handoff, fake the outside QB run....and throw it deep to the opposite side for a RB wheel route. SOMETHING like that. The play I've been clamoring for...for YEARS....is the very play the Jets sealed our fate with. The fake WR bubble screen, deep pass. The WR fakes the block for the screen, and slips past the defender he's supposed to block for the open deep pass. *sigh* One day. 

I only wish Hogan had weapons. I'd really like to see what he can do. I expect Dreggs to have a much higher level of play. He was literally tossed out there, and now has more time learning the system. Britt is back and will catch Hogan's ball much better. We already know Njoku loves Hogan. Let's see what happens guys. 

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On 10/11/2017 at 10:33 AM, Zombo said:

I'm not giving up on Kizer at all, and I know the franchise is not. Hogan is getting it better right now, and performing better, so as a Head Coach, I think you need to play him and see what you've got as a QB and as a team.

Zombo

The last time we drafted a QB that was only 21 years old, most of us thought it was best for the kid to sit and learn.   I don't see how it's bad for Kizer to watch and learn stuff he clearly wasn't ready for yet.  The guy who gave him a free ride to Notre Dame said this after watching him play/practice every day for 2 years.

The biggest difference between Hogan and Kizer is preparation, which comes from a year of experience in this offense (despite very little playing time). This helps him with pre-snap diagnosis, vision and and the ability to read his progressions quickly enough for the speed of the game thus far.   I've seen a lot of examples where it was beneficial for a rookie QB to sit and learn for at least 5-6 games or longer - as long ago as Bernie Kosar and as recently as Jared Goff. When you're on time with your throws - less passes get contested and even dropped as we've seen.  For example, Hogan went 16 for 19 with 2 TD passes in just 1 half with the same teammates that rarely looked open in our scoreless first half.  More specifically, Kizer's zeros were Hogan's Heros.  When you're on time you even have a better chance to throw someone open as displayed on the TD pass to Njoku.

I've been hearing how wonderful arm strength is dating back to trading Paul Warfield to Miami for the #3 overall selection of Mike Phipps in the early 70s.  That went soooo terrific that the eventual problem solve became a 13th round draft pick who was told he didn't have NFL arm strength.  All Sipe did was win and average over 4000 yards passing per year over a 3 year period. He's also the only QB in Cleveland to earn a League MVP honor in the last 5 or 6 decades.  If all we needed was arm strength, DA or Brandon Weeden would still be starting.

It was nice to finally get excited about our offense again when Hogan took over and got our offense out of park.

 

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On 10/12/2017 at 6:47 PM, Tour2ma said:

Kizer was ready to the extent of getting in and out of the huddle, command of the Offense, working under Center, etc. All the basic hurdles common to the QB Class of '17. The rest is really OJT stuff.

What I will say is Hue did not help him the way every other rookie we've seen has been helped by their OCs... ditto for the '16 starters, Wentz in particular who is still playing with training wheels on...

Don't hold you breath... Cousins is going to have his choice of shatshows... and he ain't picking ours.

Do you really think he will be that good?

Of our 2 choices at QB, Hogan has performed like the only one who is capable of being good right now. 

Nobody thought Sipe would be that good, which is why we were his only taker in round 13.  Did he enjoy a much more successful tenure than 3rd overall pick Mike Phipps here?  Absolutely! 

So, because Kizer got us in and out of the huddle he deserves to keep starting over the guy clearly outplaying him? 

Cousins was a 4th or 5th round draft pick on a team that traded up for their version of football messiah at #2 overall.  The guy they chose was often praised for the gorgeous deep ball and arm strength at Baylor. If arm strength is the tell all I keep hearing it is - why does Cousins have a better tenure/future in this league than RG3? 

If it's all Hue's fault for Kizer failing - who gets the credit for Hogan's massive improvement?  Kizer is exactly who his last coach said he was - not ready for the NFL.  Pretending otherwise for 5 straight weeks has not been fun. 

 

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Here's a couple of feelings I had during the Jets game.

1st half - no confidence that we were going to win the game.  Even though the game was tied.

2nd half - I actually felt that we had a fighting chance at winning.  And it was because of what our QB position exuded.  

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Kevin Hogan is 25 years old, spent five years in college, started four years in a pro-style offense, and had a year of NFL experience. Kizer is 21 years old, spent three years in college, started two years in a shotgun/read option offense, and is a rookie.

It shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that Hogan seems more advanced as a NFL QB. I would hope so.

 

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