More Peyton Manning speculation

[Harry Buffalo]

Sashi has shown alot of good things. The one big negative is his overall plan. You cannot gut a team the way he did an expect it to perform. Not just that, you can't expect it to do anything. To compound matters you have a Coach who is designing game plans for a veteran team when he is playing a bunch of children. Shmucking ridiculous. 

[Browns149]

4 minutes ago, Harry Buffalo said:

Sashi has shown alot of good things. The one big negative is his overall plan. You cannot gut a team the way he did an expect it to perform. Not just that, you can't expect it to do anything. To compound matters you have a Coach who is designing game plans for a veteran team when he is playing a bunch of children. Shmucking ridiculous. 

What are you talking about? Sashi has done very little, if anything right. He passed on 2 QBS where all he had to do was turn in the draft card. He took peppers who isn’t any good. Coleman was a big 12 wr. And a hurt on at that.

I’d like to know what Sashi has done well? Other then making us the worst team in the league

[Westside Steve]

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2017/10/15/report-browns-begin-searching-for-new-football-executive/

 

WSS

[Browns149]

13 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2017/10/15/report-browns-begin-searching-for-new-football-executive/

 

WSS

Good.  Hire Peyton Manning

[Tour2ma]

22 hours ago, Harry Buffalo said:

Sashi has shown alot of good things. The one big negative is his overall plan. You cannot gut a team the way he did an expect it to perform.

So you think he expected it to perform?

[Clevfan4life]

Darnold isnt the only guy out thete. If we're picking 1-3 we're gonna end up with a VERY good qb. I would love for peyton to make that pick, absolutely. But id also be ok with bernie fukking kosars who's literally called every single break out qb fir lime the last 15-20 years. 

Didnt someone here make a thread about all of kisars draft hits? Like guys none of the coksticks like kuiper breathed about? So we have that guy sitting in cleveland begging the org on talk radio every year to take this guy or that guy and they are literally now the who's who of nfl talent

[Tour2ma]

I just wrote about P. Manning as a Special Consultant for the upcoming draft...

[wargograw]

4 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Darnold isnt the only guy out thete. If we're picking 1-3 we're gonna end up with a VERY good qb. I would love for peyton to make that pick, absolutely. But id also be ok with bernie fukking kosars who's literally called every single break out qb fir lime the last 15-20 years. 

Didnt someone here make a thread about all of kisars draft hits? Like guys none of the coksticks like kuiper breathed about? So we have that guy sitting in cleveland begging the org on talk radio every year to take this guy or that guy and they are literally now the who's who of nfl talent

Been on this board for almost three years and I have no idea what you’re talking about. Sounds false. 

[Westside Steve]

13 hours ago, wargograw said:

Been on this board for almost three years and I have no idea what you’re talking about. Sounds false. 

People around here love Bernie because he had some success Andy's from here.

Another one of those guys without great physical skills but everybody pretends he's the smartest guy in the NFL.

For what it's worth we could look back over the last 20 years of Mel Kiper or Todd McShay and their consensus best or second best quarterback. Or Bleacher Report or PFF or whatever.

WSS

[mjp28]

On 10/14/2017 at 4:20 PM, Dawgs89 said:

Manning as GM cannot be possibly worse than the likes of lombardi, Savage, Brown, Farmer.

Manning? Hey something to cheer for the rest of the year -or- the BROWNS v.18.0

.....God I'm turning into a pessimistic old Shmuck.

[Harry Buffalo]

On 10/15/2017 at 3:44 PM, Browns149 said:

What are you talking about? Sashi has done very little, if anything right. He passed on 2 QBS where all he had to do was turn in the draft card. He took peppers who isn’t any good. Coleman was a big 12 wr. And a hurt on at that.

I’d like to know what Sashi has done well? Other then making us the worst team in the league

I mean the way he has navigated the draft in terms to creating draft capital  and being able to somehow turn the aweful players he inherited into picks. I will agree the Wentz trade was a swing and a miss, but unlike every beat reporter in the country, I'm not ready to declare Watson anything more than a flash in the pan. I also like the trade to take on the cap space of Oswieler for a 2nd rounder and moving up from a 6th to a 4th. The problem was he didn't feel the same way 5 months later and cut players to get some of the cap space back. 

 

I also just watched a Fox Sports video where they were talking with Grossi. While I don't give anything Grossi says much thought, the guy leading the show reported that while Manning was in town he was picking peoples brains about the Browns. It was reported that he was in Cleveland to donate money to Anthony Gonzalez's political campaign, but Haslem was also in attendance for the same supposed reason. 

[jcam222]

Gotta love the wild thread circulating on another board. Guy claiming his agency is finalizing the contracts of Manning AND Dungy headed to Browns as President and consultant. 

[Tour2ma]

Dungy AND Manning?

Holy groupthink, Batman!

[Westside Steve]

I just heard a long spiel about that from Trivisonno. Jim Donovan says that Peyton Manning was in town and there's no reason to believe that he was on his way to the Rock Hall. Said that the pieces seem to make sense if they are to fit together. almost no team goes without a general manager and president. Perhaps this setup has been put in place for a reason? The Cleveland Browns might have been waiting to fill those two positions until they got an answer from p.m.. Sashi Brown is a vice president and a lawyer whose job would be safe and who has no business picking football Talent. His job should be to negotiate contracts. It would be a sweet deal for Peyton Manning to be president, and possibly minority owner of the team hire a GM and head coach and control  the upcoming, and very desirable, draft. Manning has been out of the game long enough to decide whether or not he wants to return and if so to an office.

 more than likely all speculation and Trivisonno has been known to talk out his butt and when the predictions Crash and Burn just never mention it again.

 truth or cowpoop it really is something I would like to see happen. I certainly dread the idea of Sashi Brown squandering the upcoming draft. 

WSS

[Tour2ma]

3 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Sashi Brown is a vice president at a lawyer whose job would be safe and who has no business picking football Talent.

And for the 10,000th time... he's not.

 

3 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

It would be a sweet deal for Peyton Manning to be president, and possibly minority owner of the team hire a GM and head coach and control  the upcoming, and very desirable, draft.

OMFG.... you are seriously deranged.

[jcam222]

18 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

And for the 10,000th time... he's not.

 

OMFG.... you are seriously deranged.

He's not what?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Well, he (Petyton Manning) was really in town, and no doubt interviewing for a position with the Browns.  We shall see.

[Westside Steve]

3 hours ago, jcam222 said:

He's not what?

That's what I was wondering. Maybe he's just mad I don't share his devotion to Sashi and Kizer.

But just in case Sashi really isn't controlling anything then I wish they'd replace whoever is.

WSS

[wargograw]

3 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

That's what I was wondering. Maybe he's just mad I don't share his devotion to Sashi and Kizer.

But just in case Sashi really isn't controlling anything then I wish they'd replace whoever is.

WSS

He doesn’t pick football talent. 

 

Itd be nice if people would actually read Tour’s many posts on the subject. 

[Westside Steve]

12 hours ago, wargograw said:

He doesn’t pick football talent. 

 

Itd be nice if people would actually read Tour’s many posts on the subject. 

I suppose you believe there's a reason I should take his word, or his opinion, over most of the sports radio guys I listen to on a regular basis (who have certainly been known to make stuff up or be off the mark on occasion). Seems like the draft is like an episode of Pawn Stars where we trade and wheel and deal until we find some guys that may or may not turn out to be Diamonds in the Rough. So it's not Sashi Brown that mines for these gems and decides which veterans have no value? Then who's at the helm of Good Ship Barter? By the way whoever the hell it is (and from here I don't see a seasoned football professional in the office anywhere) has to be better  then the guys  who have made us worse than anyone else in the history of the sport at least so far.

WSS

[stillmotion]

38 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

I suppose you believe there's a reason I should take his word, or his opinion, over most of the sports radio guys I listen to on a regular basis (who have certainly been known to make stuff up or be off the mark on occasion). Seems like the draft is like an episode of Pawn Stars where we trade and wheel and deal until we find some guys that may or may not turn out to be Diamonds in the Rough. So it's not Sashi Brown that mines for these gems and decides which veterans have no value? Then who's at the helm of Good Ship Barter? By the way whoever the hell it is (and from here I don't see a seasoned football professional in the office anywhere) has done worse than anyone else in the history of the sport at least so far.

WSS

war thinks it's stupid to question any decisions our front office makes. he thinks sashi is a genius and hue is a fantastic coach. He thinks the team is talented and next year we'll absolutely kill it. we'll see. not that i doubt we can eventually get things right. but i think it'll be more like three years. they're behind schedule, and Shmucking up if you ask me.

[Westside Steve]

24 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

war thinks it's stupid to question any decisions our front office makes. he thinks sashi is a genius and hue is a fantastic coach. He thinks the team is talented and next year we'll absolutely kill it. we'll see. not that i doubt we can eventually get things right. but i think it'll be more like three years. they're behind schedule, and Shmucking up if you ask me.

I think that's a pretty accurate assessment. I'm always kind of optimistic that after a couple of years in the league kids get their act together teams learn how to operate the relatively complicated offense and defense and a bunch of young kids certainly have the chance to mature together. On the other hand if it is the main goal of this front office to tank for more draft picks in 2018 that would seem to be a strategy even harsher than the Colts when they sucked for luck.

Even though I'd like to have a real football guy in the office I'm still willing to give this garbage 3 years. But I'm failing to see the signs of progress in this historic debacle.

WSS

[flyingfooldoug]

5 hours ago, wargograw said:

He doesn’t pick football talent. 

 

Itd be nice if people would actually read Tour’s many posts on the subject. 

It sure would be nice if somebody in this FO could pick football talent!

[jrb12711]

What I wouldn't mind seeing at all is giving Manning some BS title (executive VP of player development) and a big salary, but have him focus on one thing-Quarterback, and who he thinks is worth that pick. At the end of the day the reason the Browns have been bottom dwellers is because our QB play is terrible.

So have Manning sit pretty next to Jimmy during gameday, but behind the scenes have the guy spend all his billable hours on scouting a QB, or developing the guys we have. 

[Marc1971]

5 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

What I wouldn't mind seeing at all is giving Manning some BS title (executive VP of player development) and a big salary, but have him focus on one thing-Quarterback, and who he thinks is worth that pick. At the end of the day the reason the Browns have been bottom dwellers is because our QB play is terrible.

So have Manning sit pretty next to Jimmy during gameday, but behind the scenes have the guy spend all his billable hours on scouting a QB, or developing the guys we have. 

This. Can't stand the mofo (Peyton, not crooked Jimmy) but he ought to know a thing or two about signalcallers.

[Tour2ma]

I can see Manning texting the sideline now... in game...

18 hours ago, jcam222 said:

He's not what?

13 hours ago, wargograw said:

He doesn’t pick football talent.

Itd be nice if people would actually read Tour’s many posts on the subject. 

Ding ding ding... sometimes reading the bit I quote gives a clue. I even try to edit the quotes to make it clearer.

Thanks, war, but if my edited quotes aren't read, not sure why I waste time making long posts... but once more into the breach...

15 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

That's what I was wondering. Maybe he's just mad I don't share his devotion to Sashi and Kizer.

But just in case Sashi really isn't controlling anything then I wish they'd replace whoever is.

Nah... not mad... frustrated...

See below for Sashi's areas of control.

As for replacing folks... you'll get your wish, you simply won't know the names cut loose or likely their replacements as they'll be scouts... and geeks... and assistant coaches. Truning over the "talent" in all these jobs based upon their contributions... or lack thereof... to the process is part of the process. It's no different than the 53-man roster plus PS in that regard. And it's at least as important as continually upgrading the 53+.

7 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

I suppose you believe there's a reason I should take his word, or his opinion, over most of the sports radio guys I listen to on a regular basis (who have certainly been known to make stuff up or be off the mark on occasion). Seems like the draft is like an episode of Pawn Stars where we trade and wheel and deal until we find some guys that may or may not turn out to be Diamonds in the Rough. So it's not Sashi Brown that mines for these gems and decides which veterans have no value? Then who's at the helm of Good Ship Barter? By the way whoever the hell it is (and from here I don't see a seasoned football professional in the office anywhere) has done worse than anyone else in the history of the sport at least so far.

First, your ending assessment is not even close to the objective truth... it's simply not... IF you look beyond 1-21. It's not easy to do... I get that... but when folks do they find:

• a treasure trove of Draft capital and...
• an increase in rostered talent... everywhere except three Offensive skill positions: QB, RB, and WR.

Stay tuned for that third year you claim, despite every post you make, to be allowing this FO to have. I believe all three will be addressed. Successfully? Three for three successfully? No idea... no guarantees... but I like our odds.

As for taking my word over your radio talking heads... nah... not "over". Despite my persistence I don't seek blind faith in the "gospel according to Tour." What I do seek is some sign of acknowledgement that I am not simply talking out of my a$$ here... that I am not making sh!t up. That readers of my posts simply allow for the possibility that I might be correct. I LIVED the role that I am ascribing to Sashi.

Going to take one last shot at convincing you that I deserve at least that much credence...

I've headed up consensus decision making processes and seen/made them work. I made a living for close to 10 years doing so and did well enough at it that I was able to retire at age 50. I did so in a culture that was full of decision makers. Hell... I was a decision maker... and a one with a pretty damn good track record. The consensus process yielded far better decisions than any one individual, including me, ever made.

That experience is the difference between me and your radio-heads... and you and most, if not nearly all, others here.

So if Sashi is not "deciding" where do the decision come from? The Scouts... the analytic geeks... and, in the case of rostered players, the staff. These are the evaluators... these are the deciders. It's Sashi's role to test and bring together their individual "decisions" to form a consensus approach.

How do I know this is his role? Haslam told us it was when he introduced Sashi praising his ability "to build consensus." Or as Sashi put it about himself when he introduced DePo:

Brown: “This is my 12th season in the league, been in and around a lot of strategic decisions in terms of how to build rosters. I think one of my strengths also is to be able to bring people together and form a consensus, take information and make good strategic decisions. We’ll make a series of those and in time we will see the results translate on the field.”

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Sashi-Brown-and-Paul-DePodesta-Press-Conference---121/ef0ffe92-0316-4330-86a8-2fc659ebf5bc

Important to note here is that Sashi in speaking about his decision making set his level at strategic. Strategic vs. tactical decision making is one of the most confused concepts in business.

Strategic examples include things like: moving to a consensus process, drafting a QB early Day 1 later in the rebuild rather than ASAP, playing hard ball in negotiating with rostered FAs and the timing of aggressively signing UFAs and RFAs. Any repeated actions over time can be ascribed to a Strategic decision.

Tactical decisions include: taking a shot on a QB later in a given draft rather than standing pat, drafting 4 WRs in a single draft and trading for a player in a contract year hoping to, but not guaranteed to, sign him to a long-term deal later. One off decisions are generally Tactical in nature, but can be repeated over time and remain tactical.

6 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

I think that's a pretty accurate assessment. I'm always kind of optimistic that after a couple of years in the league kids get their act together teams learn how to operate the relatively complicated offense and defense and a bunch of young kids certainly have the chance to mature together. On the other hand if it is the main goal of this front office to tank for more draft picks in 2018 that would seem to be a strategy even harsher than the Colts when they sucked for luck.

Even though I'd like to have a real football guy in the office I'm still willing to give this garbage 3 years. But I'm failing to see the signs of progress in this historic debacle.

Nah... still's "assessment" is not based in reality, but I'll deal with that in another post.

I do agree with your last part... the underlined bit... so we have that...

And this part... the parallels with the Manningless Colts is not completely off the mark. The difference I see is that while the Colts were dedicated to "sucking for Luck" as their holding out a healthy Manning late in the season (as they may well do with Luck this year). They knew going in that they had a QB, Painter, with whom they would not win.

Going into this season we did not know that. Surely our FO knew going winless was a possibility once playing a rookie QB became the clear choice, but when we had Kess and Osweiler vying to start I've no doubt we felt one would be good enough to win some games. I've only slightly less doubt that they still believed we could, and would, win with Kizer.  Do they still believe we will win with Kizer? Surely even less so, but not to the point of extinction... even Painter won two for the Colts.

Does the FO care if we win this season? Yes... I've no doubt they do. Despite any wins making their job harder, they know going winless carries a downside they do not care to experience. They remember what it meant to the franchise... to the fanbase.... to win even one game last year. Book It!

[Tour2ma]

8 hours ago, stillmotion said:

1. war thinks it's stupid to question any decisions our front office makes.
2. he thinks sashi is a genius and hue is a fantastic coach.
3. He thinks the team is talented and next year we'll absolutely kill it.
4. we'll see. not that i doubt we can eventually get things right. but i think it'll be more like three years. they're behind schedule, and Shmucking up if you ask me.

1. war questions this FO's choices much of the time. What he gets is that it is not the typical NFL FO... that it is not in the tradition of NFL FOs. And he's willing to give it time.
2. war's never said any such thing about Sashi... and neither have I. Hue? May be projecting a bit here, but I don't recall him making any such claim. I know I have called for an OC for a long time now. Certainly before this season and I think I at least labelled it a "good idea" when Hue first said he'd be the play caller.
3. Sorta and no... We both think the team has more talent than it has had, but that's different from calling it "talented" at this point as to do so is all-encompassing... and lcearly we lack talent at some positions. Also know we don't think "we'll absolutely kill it" next year. Become game competitive? Absolutely. Division crown competitive? Not in 2018...
4. First, you sure do a good impression of someone in serious doubt of our getting it "right". Also not sure what you see happening in "three years", but I do agree we are behind where we thought we'd be with the lions share due to the current state of the QB position. But stay tuned... still could see an upswing this season... and should see a stab at a quantum leap this off-season.

7 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

It sure would be nice if somebody in this FO could pick football talent!

None are so blind as those who will not see...

6 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

What I wouldn't mind seeing at all is giving Manning some BS title (executive VP of player development) and a big salary, but have him focus on one thing-Quarterback, and who he thinks is worth that pick. At the end of the day the reason the Browns have been bottom dwellers is because our QB play is terrible.

So have Manning sit pretty next to Jimmy during gameday, but behind the scenes have the guy spend all his billable hours on scouting a QB, or developing the guys we have. 

Special Consultant works for me... and if he shows to have the chops for more, then expand his role later.

[Tour2ma]

8 hours ago, stillmotion said:

1. war thinks it's stupid to question any decisions our front office makes.
2. he thinks sashi is a genius and hue is a fantastic coach.
3. He thinks the team is talented and next year we'll absolutely kill it.
4. we'll see. not that i doubt we can eventually get things right. but i think it'll be more like three years. they're behind schedule, and Shmucking up if you ask me.

1. war questions this FO's choices much of the time. What he gets is that it is not the typical NFL FO... that it is not in the tradition of NFL FOs. And he's willing to give it time.
2. war's never said any such thing about Sashi... and neither have I. Hue? May be projecting a bit here, but I don't recall him making any such claim. I know I have called for an OC for a long time now. Certainly before this season and I think I at least labelled it a "good idea" when Hue first said he'd be the play caller.
3. Sorta and no... We both think the team has more talent than it has had, but that's different from calling it "talented" at this point as to do so is all-encompassing... and lcearly we lack talent at some positions. Also know we don't think "we'll absolutely kill it" next year. Become game competitive? Absolutely. Division crown competitive? Not in 2018...
4. First, you sure do a good impression of someone in serious doubt of our getting it "right". Also not sure what you see happening in "three years", but I do agree we are behind where we thought we'd be with the lions share due to the current state of the QB position. But stay tuned... still could see an upswing this season... and should see a stab at a quantum leap this off-season.

7 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

It sure would be nice if somebody in this FO could pick football talent!

None are so blind as those who will not see...

6 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

What I wouldn't mind seeing at all is giving Manning some BS title (executive VP of player development) and a big salary, but have him focus on one thing-Quarterback, and who he thinks is worth that pick. At the end of the day the reason the Browns have been bottom dwellers is because our QB play is terrible.

So have Manning sit pretty next to Jimmy during gameday, but behind the scenes have the guy spend all his billable hours on scouting a QB, or developing the guys we have. 

Special Consultant works for me... and if he shows to have the chops for more, then expand his role later.

[hoorta]

On 10/16/2017 at 1:50 PM, Tour2ma said:

So you think he expected it to perform?

I really think 'ol Sashi and DePo expected way better than 1-21. And counting BTW. 

[D Bone]

5 minutes ago, hoorta said:

I really think 'ol Sashi and DePo expected way better than 1-21. And counting BTW. 

There is not a single doubt in my mind they expected far better...... and if they didn't, then they need to get the hell out of the organization this second.