domcucch1994 Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 Still early to say, but the numbers don't lie Kizer thru 5 games - 50% completion pct. 851 yards, 3TDs 9INTs Watson thru 5 games- 62% completion pct. 1,072 yards, 12TDs, 4INTs Maybe passing on this guy was a bad idea after all.. Factory of Sadness continues.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, domcucch1994 said: Still early to say, but the numbers don't lie Kizer thru 5 games - 50% completion pct. 851 yards, 3TDs 9INTs Watson thru 5 games- 62% completion pct. 1,072 yards, 12TDs, 4INTs Maybe passing on this guy was a bad idea after all.. Factory of Sadness continues.. Kizer - Duke, Njoku and Kasen Williams Watson - Lamar, Hopkins, Miller & Fuller Deshaun is exceeding what I expected out of him. But let's not ignore the quality of his supporting case relative to our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: Kizer - Duke, Njoku and Kasen Williams Watson - Lamar, Hopkins, Miller & Fuller Deshaun is exceeding what I expected out of him. But let's not ignore the quality of his supporting case relative to our own. Wait, you mean football is a team sport and that individual performances are almost equally as reliant on the teammates surrounding you? Get this new age analytic phooey out of here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 28 minutes ago, domcucch1994 said: Still early to say, but the numbers don't lie Kizer thru 5 games - 50% completion pct. 851 yards, 3TDs 9INTs Watson thru 5 games- 62% completion pct. 1,072 yards, 12TDs, 4INTs Interesting comparison but numbers can be deceptive or skewed, what would Watson do in Kizer's starts and vice versa. Some good quarterbacks didn't have exactly eye popping numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 Again Houston and Dallas were good teams with a glaring hole at quarterback so a guy that doesn't suck out loud will make the entire team look better. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 Camp Watson was about 2 guys deep all offseason and now everyone is his biggest fan. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 Time to dig up rg3 rookie stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 Seriously? How many weeks have we spent throwing shoes at the wall next to the tv over all the drops? Some of these throws are garbage, no doubt....but mist of those drops are finger high. I mean cmon, we really dont know who kizer is because of the incompetence of this receiving corp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_Tom Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 One has been a champion in HS and college. One hasn't. Also, very interesting that each of their college coaches had polar opposite opinions on their draft status as well. Kelly "he needed to stay in school at least another year and develop on and off the field" Sweeney "you pass on Deshaun Watson, you're passing on Michael Jordan" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Clevfan4life said: Seriously? How many weeks have we spent throwing shoes at the wall next to the tv over all the drops? Some of these throws are garbage, no doubt....but mist of those drops are finger high. I mean cmon, we really dont know who kizer is because of the incompetence of this receiving corp I was on this bandwagon too but they seem to catch Hogans passes just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 9 hours ago, tiamat63 said: Kizer - Duke, Njoku and Kasen Williams Watson - Lamar, Hopkins, Miller & Fuller Deshaun is exceeding what I expected out of him. But let's not ignore the quality of his supporting case relative to our own. Ding ding ding ding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 2 hours ago, jcam222 said: I was on this bandwagon too but they seem to catch Hogans passes just fine. Except for that pick, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkHole Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 50 minutes ago, MLD Woody said: Except for that pick, right? No, that pick was caught just fine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, StinkHole said: No, that pick was caught just fine too. Hogan was hit as that ball was released. It still got to the receiver- just a bit high, an erratic pass that was 'tough' to catch, tipped to a trailing defender... sounds a bit like Kizer's normal passes. Receivers must anticipate and correct for the passes trajectory, if it's coming in hot and off target, it leads to drops. case and point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Go actually 'play catch' with somebody. Out of ten people you 'play catch' with, 10 people will throw the ball differently. Out of those 10 people throwing the ball to you, one of them will throw you the most catchable ball and one will throw passes to you that are hard to catch. Try it sometime. Not all throws are created equal, measured in MPH or velocity of the spin on the ball when it makes contact with your hands. These guys are great pass catchers. They have been catching balls for most of their lives most likely, it's how they make a living... if so many players are having difficulty bringing in Kizer's passes- doesn't that tell you something about the way he throws the ball or maybe the angle of release, something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 minute ago, PoeticG said: Go actually 'play catch' with somebody. Out of ten people you 'play catch' with, 10 people will throw the ball differently. Out of those 10 people throwing the ball to you, one of them will throw you the most catchable ball and one will throw passes to you that are hard to catch. Try it sometime. Not all throws are created equal, measured in MPH or velocity of the spin on the ball when it makes contact with your hands. These guys are great pass catchers. They have been catching balls for most of their lives most likely, it's how they make a living... if so many players are having difficulty bringing in Kizer's passes- doesn't that tell you something about the way he throws the ball or maybe the angle of release, something? Yeah. I do think there’s something to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 12 hours ago, SD_Tom said: One has been a champion in HS and college. One hasn't. Also, very interesting that each of their college coaches had polar opposite opinions on their draft status as well. Kelly "he needed to stay in school at least another year and develop on and off the field" Sweeney "you pass on Deshaun Watson, you're passing on Michael Jordan" So you think Watson is the second greatest player in history of the game? Please mr. Sweeney... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 6 hours ago, PoeticG said: Receivers must anticipate and correct for the passes trajectory, if it's coming in hot and off target, it leads to our players tipping than other team picking.. fixed...if we count them in 3 seasons, not another team close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoolie Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Kizer blows. Let's not forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 13 minutes ago, Ghoolie said: Kizer blows. Let's not forget that. Is there anyone on the team that doesn't blow? Seriously, this is about as bad a team as I've ever seen in the NFL. I may not be some football geek expert but I've never seen a worse overall team from top to bottom, both sides of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 10 hours ago, MLD Woody said: Except for that pick, right? All QB's throw picks. He was hit as he threw as well. Overall you can't argue the catch rate with Hogan in is around 80% and with Kizer a little over half of that. To me that conclusively puts a lot of the drop issue squarely on how and where the QB is placing the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JradMIT Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Texan fan here FWIW, I watched the first half last week of the game against the Jets. Whats missing in the discussion of supporting casts is the contrast in O-lines, Houston's is absolutely in the bottom half if not bottom quarter of the league, the Browns on the other hand are clearly a top ten line. I saw many drop backs where Kizer had all day to throw and he didn't find anyone, his throws were all over the place and he was quite frantic out there. When Hogan came in you could immediately see the difference and how much better he was playing. If you have watched Watson, you see that he seldom gets good protection and he has to move around a lot to buy time. He's often running for his life back there, but still manages to make good decisions for the most part. What stands out about Watson, and what makes him good, and what is hard to quantify and measure is how calm under pressure he is as well as his pocket presence, escapability, and quick decisiveness. He just seems to never lose his cool or get flustered even with guys all over him. Also he isn't looking to run, he is looking to buy time to throw down field. RG3 doesn't compare in this fashion, he was able to succeed because of his ability to run combined with the zone blocking scheme concepts of a Shanahan offense. Its early and he obviously has to keep it up but IMO this isn't a flash in the pan type of deal because of the above mentioned strengths. You can't really dismiss Kizer, he looks like a rookie. DW4 kinda looked like that his first game or so, but has quickly improved to a high level. Also its hard to beat up on the Browns too much when DW4 was the 3rd guy taken and obviously no one thought he would be this good this fast. But there is something about this kid, that is not so easily quantified or measured that sets him apart. I think if they could do it over the Browns would have jumped all over this guy instead of trading the pick, but hindsight is 20/20. He wouldn't have lasted to that pick if everyone knew what we know now. I can't really fault the Browns in their decision making, its just bad luck in a sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Howdy... Watson came into the league more ready. No doubt about that. What I am not sure about is how much better he can get. What's your sense of that? See you, Sunday... if you tailgate. On 10/9/2017 at 11:23 AM, tiamat63 said: Kizer - Duke, Njoku and Kasen Williams Watson - Lamar, Hopkins, Miller & Fuller Deshaun is exceeding what I expected out of him. But let's not ignore the quality of his supporting case relative to our own. Can't completely discount accumulating experience, but Watson's numbers took off when Fuller returned to the lineup. 17 hours ago, PoeticG said: Hogan was hit as that ball was released. It still got to the receiver- just a bit high, an erratic pass that was 'tough' to catch, tipped to a trailing defender... sounds a bit like Kizer's normal passes. Receivers must anticipate and correct for the passes trajectory, if it's coming in hot and off target, it leads to drops. case and point. So a hit from the front causes a ball to sail high and long??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domcucch1994 Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 I like Hogan, hell I liked Kessler.. But Hogan has more upside than Kess, but not quite the arm stength as Kizer. Arm strength don't mean Sheet if you cant put it on the receiver. Hogan has that ability. Now granted, lots of drops from Kizer's passes, no doubt, but ive seen him miss some pretty wide open WRs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Now Sashi won't have to hear the postgame comparisons regarding the QB that he GAVE Houston against the QB that he DID pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonnie Utah Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domcucch1994 Posted October 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Maybe we made the wrong pick taking Kizer, maybe we haven't.. He has led some impressive drives, only to FUBAR it up in the redzone.. Sitting and seeing how it gets done is probably a good thing for the kid, unless Hogan plays lights out and snatches the job away from him.. Am I surprised that Hue went back on his word? No Am I surprised it took Hue this long to realize, maybe this kid isn't ready? Absolutely! I don't see us beating the Texans with Kizer at the helm, I believe Hogan gives us a better chance.. Let's see if MG can get going and bring the heat on DeShaun... Should be an interesting game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 The list of athletic QBs who lit the NFL on fire, but eventually fizzled out because they can't stand in the pocket, go through their progressions, etc is a long one. (Cunningham, RGIII, Kaepernick, Tebow come to mind). They are the NFL equivalent of a hotshot pitcher who can throw 95mph fastballs but can't command any other pitches, eventually the league catches up to them unless they master the finer points of the position. I'm going to withhold "THE BROWNS REALLY MISSED ON THIS KID!" rant for more evidence down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 7 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: I'm going to withhold "THE BROWNS REALLY MISSED ON THIS KID!" rant for more evidence down the road. Wise... both times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 You realize this entire post is based on a guy whose name seems to be taken from a minor and relatively unknown Star Wars character? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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