tommorrow we WIN or it's hard to see how hue is back in 2018....

[Tacosman]

and I'm putting my money to back  up my mouth.

It's a true pickem game and I just played the Browns on the ML at the fivedimes reduced price of -105. 

5500 dollars.  First browns game I've bet on all year.

Back to hue-  if we don't beat the jets tommorrow, yet another terrible/horrible/no good team, it's pretty hard to see us getting to 4+ wins.

Going 0-3 against the bengals/colts/jets, three teams that will all be under .500, is terrible.

The schedule is about to get a lot harder.  @bears in wk 16 looks possible, and in week 17 against the steelers they may not be playing anything in our horrid divisiotn depending on if they need a seeding.  But I don't see us going 4-7 or better in those games unless we get a lot better, and Im not even sure 4-12 gets hue back(5-27 isn't a two year record that would keep a job for many coaches)

So in a way this game is kind of a must win for hue if he wants to keep his job after the year

[Clevfan4life]

Wr're not winning tom. May not win a single game all season. And guess what, coaches cant go nowhere. None of em. We cant switch schemes. We have to run speciofic Sheet and draft/sign players to fit. I dont lime the prospect of another 1 win or less season, but prior staff forings have now brought us to the point of we're stuck with what we got.

[wargograw]

Stop talking about firing him.

[nickers]

2 hours ago, wargograw said:

Stop talking about firing him.

What has he done to merit staying?

[Browns149]

41 minutes ago, nickers said:

What has he done to merit staying?

Nothing. If they go winless, FIRE THEM ALL!!!!!

[policeman]

Seems to me that the whole good or bad football team starts with the organization. A Lot of games are won or lost in the front office. Stability is the key, from the owner down. Sure there are some players better than others but parity of talent is pretty even when you stink about it. Those few players that stand out above the others are the ones that a successful front office  puts on the field. Don't you stink its a lot of psychology involved also? I'm saying that most of those players on both teams are pretty much the same size and have the same strength and speed. A good organization will put the mindset in their players head that they are superior and most of the time they play that way. I'm not a Hue fan one way or another but until this organization, aka "front office" gets their Sheet together and changes the mindset around here nothing is going to change. Thank you for your time.

[jiggins7919]

We need the talk of getting rid of Hue Jackson to stop. He's obviously not perfect but I want everyone to look at the roster Hue was given and then hopefully you'll stop talking immediately. I just made a post on the Garrett thread that goes into more detail, but we fans need to understand that this roster is incapable of winning. Keep Hue, give Gregg the personnel he needs to run his freaking defense, and draft better. Stop trading down. I know it's not fair to judge Kizer right now, but it doesn't help matters when Watson looks better every week, and Wentz wins games too. Deshawn Watson accounted for FIVE TOUCHDOWNS last week. Can you imagine Deshone Kizer EVER coming close to sniffing 5 tds? (this year I mean)  Of course you can't. Mainly because our defense doesn't force FG's and we have the absolute worst WRs in the entire world. 

Any blame falls on Sashi. Just look at what his draft picks have done. Or really, what they haven't done. And yes, Hue shares some of that blame too. But Hue didn't trade down. Hue didn't cut Haden. Hue didn't do a lot of things that resulted in this cluster chicken of a roster. 

[Browns149]

While I agree that this crappy team is mostly  Sashi’s Fault. They hired a def coordinator that has underwhelmed. They hired a wr coach that was supposed to be good. And a head coach that was supposed to be some Qb guru. All three areas have only gotten worse as the season has gone on. 

 

People keep saying the Browns have more talent then the Jets, but yet the Jets are 2-2. 

[jiggins7919]

Yep. All that is true. But let me tell ya something. I think we could've had 1 or 2 victories if we signed a dead-end, veteran QB. The reason we didn't do that is because we wanted to build something that will last. Can't really do that with veteran re-treads. The hope is that Kizer learns on the go and shows enough to tell everyone we don't need to use a high draft pick on a QB. If he does that, we get to use all those picks on building a roster, and that's how it's done. 

[TexasAg1969]

19 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Yep. All that is true. But let me tell ya something. I think we could've had 1 or 2 victories if we signed a dead-end, veteran QB. The reason we didn't do that is because we wanted to build something that will last. Can't really do that with veteran re-treads. The hope is that Kizer learns on the go and shows enough to tell everyone we don't need to use a high draft pick on a QB. If he does that, we get to use all those picks on building a roster, and that's how it's done. 

I'm sorry I will be gone for games 6 & 7, because I think the next 3 or 4 give us a better idea of where this is heading overall. By then we'll know for sure what pieces are still missing for the next draft & current FA signing period. Hopefully we can fill some of those needs before Oct. 31. And I agree with others that Jarvis Landry is a good starting point. Now FS is what I want to see filled too. The CF position is an experiment that did not work out IMO.

[jiggins7919]

We need Landry because we can't set up our young QB to fail.  It'd be no different than drafting a QB early and then having a terrible OL.  We've done THAT before as well, and we fans know how it turns out.  We need a better supporting cast for Kizer, but so much of this crap falls on our defense.  I've posted this stat before, but I'll do it again.  The last time I checked (and it might've been before the Bengals game, don't remember) our red zone defense surrendered 10 touchdowns on 12 trips.  Many of those TD's came on 3rd down, and were heart-breaking.  The two against the Steelers ended up being the difference in the game.  It's one thing if the opposition SCORES on 10-12 trips, but to have every single one of those be TOUCHDOWNS is virtually unheard of.  It has to be the worst percentage in the league, and it's the number one problem facing Kizer right now.  Look at the Indy game.  Our offense scored freaking 28 points.  As I said after the game, there's a very high likelihood that we don't score that many again all year.  28 points should definitely be enough for Kizer to win the darn game, and it WOULD'VE been if our defense could stop ANYBODY in the red zone.  I know it's easier said than done, but on Brissett's first touchdown, I was screaming QB draw.  It was completely obvious to an amateur fan like me, and I get irritated when I'm on my couch seeing things that paid professionals DON'T.  And there's nothing special about me.  I'm not bragging.  I'm sure other people saw it too.  You have a new QB, who is very mobile, in the shotgun formation near the goal line.  What play did you THINK was coming?

Red zone defense is the key to keeping the score close.  We can't get into a situation (again) where Kizer has to throw the ball every time to a bunch of receivers that literally wouldn't be playing on ANYBODY'S roster.  And the trickle down effect will flow to all other parts of the game.  If the score remains close, we can run the ball (or try to).  If we can run the ball, we can get to some of our play-action offense (Kizer excels at this).  It's all connected, but it starts with NOT giving up 7 every dang time a team threatens to score.  

[miktoxic]

Seems to me mccown = dead end vet QB, who now is lofting over the shoulder 40 yarders into his receiver's hands in the end zone but we have people applauding our drafting. GTFO.

Good to see our first round picks flourishing for other teams now.

Throw a dart at a balloon blindfolded and the name within would be a better pick than anything else any one of our FOs have done in decades.

[TexasAg1969]

6 minutes ago, miktoxic said:

Seems to me mccown = dead end vet QB, who now is lofting over the shoulder 40 yarders into his receiver's hands in the end zone but we have people applauding our drafting. GTFO.

Good to see our first round picks flourishing for other teams now.

Throw a dart at a balloon blindfolded and the name within would be a better pick than anything else any one of our FOs have done in decades.

Sushi gets his pick ready!

[SD_Tom]

It's incredible how they waste high draft picks every year.  It's mathematically impossible to be that consistently wrong..... Or not I guess.  

 

[Browns149]

4 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

It's incredible how they waste high draft picks every year.  It's mathematically impossible to be that consistently wrong..... Or not I guess.  

 

You would think that in the 19 years since 1999, they could have hit more then just once (Joe Thomas) 

[TexasAg1969]

16 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

You would think that in the 19 years since 1999, they could have hit more then just once (Joe Thomas) 

Mack? Haden? TJ Ward (with the Superbowl Ring), Danny I think will prove out?

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Mack? Haden? TJ Ward (with the Superbowl Ring), Danny I think will prove out?

TJ Ward was a first round pick?

[TexasAg1969]

4 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

TJ Ward was a first round pick?

I didn't see him refer to 1st round pick, just high picks. Ward was #38 overall-top of the 2nd.

[Dutch Oven]

28 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

You would think that in the 19 years since 1999, they could have hit more then just once (Joe Thomas) 

It's almost impressive how horribly bad the Browns have been with their first round picks.

Some, like Courtney Brown just didn't work out to the surprise of almost everyone. Others, like Barkevious Mingo and Johnny Manziel were busts waiting to happen. (And Justin Gilbert, if the Browns had asked his former OK State teammate Brandon Weeden)

[Browns149]

2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

TJ Ward was a first round pick?

No he wasn’t. Also Haden was never that good. He might have had 2 decent years. For a 7th pick in the first round, he wasn’t that good

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I didn't see him refer to 1st round pick, just picks. Ward was #38 overall-top of the 2nd.

Ohhhh... A thousand apologies upon thee!

[TexasAg1969]

21 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Ohhhh... A thousand apologies upon thee!

And I edited that to say "just high picks" which he was. Apologies upon thee for editing while you were responding.

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, Browns149 said:

No he wasn’t. Also Haden was never that good. He might have had 2 decent years. For a 7th pick in the first round, he wasn’t that good

I think he had a 2-3 year stretch where he was a top 10-15 CB in the NFL.

I definitely wouldn't consider him a bad pick or a bust, perhaps someone whose peak years were limited due to injuries. That and he wasn't/isn't a superior athlete at the CB position.

[Browns149]

1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

I think he had a 2-3 year stretch where he was a top 10-15 CB in the NFL.

I definitely wouldn't consider him a bad pick or a bust, perhaps someone whose peak years were limited due to injuries. That and he wasn't/isn't a superior athlete at the CB position.

I definitely wouldn’t consider him worth the 7th pick. 

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, Browns149 said:

I definitely wouldn’t consider him worth the 7th pick. 

I'll have to go back and look at the 2010 draft to see what was available when the Browns drafted Haden.

Now, for the Mingo pick, that draft was absolute garbage.

[Browns149]

They have had 11 picks in the top 8 of the first round since 1999

Tim Couch  Ok but not a number 1 overall pick

Courtny Brown  Bust

Gerrard Warren Bust

Kellen Winslow Idiot

Braylon Edwards Idiot

Joe Thomas. HOF

Joe Haden Ok but not worth the 7th pick

Trent Richardson  Bust

Justin Gilbert   Bust 

Myles Garrett   We will see

[Browns149]

I forgot Mingo.  Bust

[D Bone]

5 hours ago, nickers said:

What has he done to merit staying?

Trust the 13yr process..... this team needs time to gel. 

[Tour2ma]

Yeah... and what about Ernie Davis? Traded up and he never saw the field.

Stop with the Shmucking history lessons already!

.. or I shall become cross.

All that matters is the past 21 months. I can deal with the negativity that actually matters... just not the rest of the shite.

9 hours ago, Tacosman said:

and I'm putting my money to back  up my mouth. It's a true pickem game and I just played the Browns on the ML at the fivedimes reduced price of -105. 5500 dollars.  First browns game I've bet on all year.

Back to hue- 

Good luck, but if you win then do you press on whatever line there is on Hue getting the axe?

9 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

And guess what, coaches cant go nowhere. None of em.

True for the big dogs... both of them, but feels like the shine is fading on Tabor. Then, as always, there are our "coordinators" tinkering with their staffs.

 

[stillmotion]

9 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Wr're not winning tom. May not win a single game all season. And guess what, coaches cant go nowhere. None of em. We cant switch schemes. We have to run speciofic Sheet and draft/sign players to fit. I dont lime the prospect of another 1 win or less season, but prior staff forings have now brought us to the point of we're stuck with what we got.

Prior staff firings haven't brought us to this point. Gutting the entire roster, releasing all veterans and skill players and starting over with undrafted free agents and rookies as Mudfly stated are the reason we are "at this point". How many  other teams rebuilding have done this successfully?