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boo fagley

The Browns WRs are not catching the ball

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Allow me to preface this with that in no way am I bashing the Browns or throwing shade on the franchise.

I know that some of the incompletions are on the WRs, and 1 TE, but how much is on the QB play?

Look down at the stats http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/clubhouse/nfl/cle/cleveland-browns. Not a single Browns WR is catching better than 50%. That simply is not acceptable because you are only completing 1 out of every 2 passes. What youre looking for is in the 66% bracket completing 2 out of 3 passes. The difference seems insignificant, but it really isnt. Check out all the teams in the Super Bowl conversation and I think that you will find that the majority of their receiving corps is in 66% range.  Research all your big name WRs and TEs and they should be in the 66% club. Its a numbers game.

Crowell  8 targets @ 5 rec = 50 yards. 62.5 % who I believe is playing hurt BTW. Not himself.

Johnson 28 targets @ 20 rec = 207 yards. 71%.  Johnson is basically carrying the offense when you combine his rushes.

Here is where the problem lies. 4 game WRs

Britt 23 targets @ 8 receptions = 121 yards. 34% 

Louis 20 targ @ 10 rec = 133 yards. 50%

2 game WRs

Higgins 21 targ @ 9 rec = 105 yards. 43%

Coleman 13 targ @ 6 rec = 62 yards. 46%

Willimas 6 targ @ 1 rec =  10 yards. 16%

Coates 4 targ @ 0 rec = nothing

TEs all 4 game players

Devalve 18 targ @ 9 rec = 134 yards. 50%

Njoku 12 targ @ 9 rec = 70 yards. 75% So, this last draft was a bust? Looks like the Browns hit on 2 players with Peppers and Njoku.

Teller 2 targ @ 2 rec = 24 yards 100%

Could Kizers struggles be in part because of his receiving corp? YES

Could the struggles of the Browns receiving corp be in part because of Kizer? YES

I do not believe that you can review all 4 games and conclude that every Kizer pass should have been caught and conversely every Receiver incompletion was on them either. When this gets dialed in, then you will see wins because the offense effects the defense and vice a versa. If I am Hue, I want Duke Johnson and Njoku on the field to play are larger role. It may open up opportunities for other receivers to receive less pressure by the defense.

Fagley out and I am not Ghoolie.

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Good post Boo..Also stats can be deceiving. Of Kizers passes, How many of those passes was the receiver headed one direction, but the ball is thrown late & behind receiver (1.5 to 2 plays out of 2 sets of downs?) Yes the ball is with-in hand distance but with momentum players just can't stop on a instance..Kizer's Late..a lot..Sure it's fixable also..He's a senior in college playing like it in the NFL..Coats,K.Williams,R.Hall,Higgins need to bring it..Am all about done with Britt & Louis. We have thrown the ball over 40 times on 1st down.Some with penalties that put us in a deeper hole.Some to Duke who I have said before is balling his butt off.Then theirs some to Crow. With no balance nor Vision to open field..Look at Dayes run attempts(9) & pass catches(2-2). Just not enough to a guy with es-capability with big play vision. Crow better be on the FO's clock to getting the dollars he's wanting..Have not seen Crow making it rain$ on any of his limited attempts.   

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Good points but similar to the Why we suck - receiving corp. (Yes one reason why they suck.)

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Season so far..............receivers can't catch, O line can't block,  running backs can't gain any yards, QB gets sacked, then his throws are off, or dropped, D line is full of holes, and D backs get beat constantly, special teams play is mediocre (missed field goals, etc.), and coaching staff calls a bland game with zero adjustments. Other than those things, the team is looking better. (insert sarcasm)

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Certainly, low receptions percent based on targets  has several factors involved in it:  A.  Drops by the receiver  B. Inaccuracy by the QB  C. Excellent defensive play by defenders  D. Balls that should never have been thrown to a particular receiver because he just was not open.

So...receivers...get your asses open...and QB...hit the damned open receiver...and receiver...catch the damn ball when it comes to you...and QB...don't throw the ball into like double/triple coverage where the receiver has no chance to catch it.

It seems all so absurdly simple...and it is....its just that the execution of it by this team seems so difficult.

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I'll add another concern re drops. Is Kizer firing the ball in when he needs to have some touch on the ball? (although Duke doesn't seem to have a problem).

Mike

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Good post obviously but can i get a collective "no Shmucking Sheet" and "u dont say" from everyone here? I mean this certainly wasnt news to anyone. Infact its a broken Shmucking record. We had like a year or two of respite when we dropped on par with the rest of the league, but the stone hands are back evidently

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34 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

I'll add another concern re drops. Is Kizer firing the ball in when he needs to have some touch on the ball? (although Duke doesn't seem to have a problem).

Mike

U could maybe make that argument with a couple throws but britt fir example was dropping ridiculously easy thrown balls.....right in his finger and not rifled either. I have no explanation for some of his drops. Sideline throws with no safety converging, no going over the middle or anything and he still drops. 

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2 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Good post obviously but can i get a collective "no Shmucking Sheet" and "u dont say" from everyone here? I mean this certainly wasnt news to anyone. 

 

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11 hours ago, boo fagley said:

I do not believe that you can review all 4 games and conclude that every Kizer pass should have been caught and conversely every Receiver incompletion was on them either. When this gets dialed in, then you will see wins because the offense effects the defense and vice a versa. If I am Hue, I want Duke Johnson and Njoku on the field to play are larger role. It may open up opportunities for other receivers to receive less pressure by the defense.

Fagley out and I am not Ghoolie.

lol... Clearly you are not... cause... you know... r-e-s-e-a-r-c-h. The other guy doesn't even watch our games let alone do a stat dive...

Completely agree on Duke and Njoku.... but I want them both lining up as WRs.

  • Reason 1: Neither can block his weight.
  • Reason 2: Duke is our best receiver... period... and Njoku's a match up nightmare who seems to have overcome his preseason case of the dropsies.
  • Reason 3: The active alternatives to them.

As for the reason the completion rates have been so low... definitely a combination of QB and WR errors, however, early I think most fell on Kizer and since then it's been shifting to the WR groups.

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8 hours ago, The Gipper said:

It seems all so absurdly simple...and it is....its just that the execution of it by this team seems so difficult.

If it was easy... everyone would do it.

8 hours ago, Canton Mike said:

I'll add another concern re drops. Is Kizer firing the ball in when he needs to have some touch on the ball? (although Duke doesn't seem to have a problem).

Certainly under pressure and/or on the move this issue seems to grow.

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8 hours ago, Canton Mike said:

I'll add another concern re drops. Is Kizer firing the ball in when he needs to have some touch on the ball? (although Duke doesn't seem to have a problem).

Mike

It’s a fair question but it’s also kind of inconsequential. Brett Favre broke his WR’s fingers on more than one occasion. It’s not to say that you don’t need touch, but at the end of the day - if you’re an NFL WR, you catch the ball that hits you in the hands. That’s just how it is.

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Gotta disagree... QBs have to throw catchable balls. That's not the same as lower velocity balls, but the faster the throw, the more accuracy is required of the throw.

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15 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Njoku 12 targ @ 9 rec = 70 yards. 75% So, this last draft was a bust? Looks like the Browns hit on 2 players with Peppers and Njoku.

In what world can you say the Browns hit on the peppers pick? They line him up so far off the ball because he can't take proper angles to the ball carrier. And even that doesn't help. The one thing i thought he would definitely be great at is returning kicks, and let's face it he isn't doing to hot at that either. I'm not saying he is a bust yet at all. But you can not say it looks like he is a hit by any means.

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Kizer needs to work on his touch a little bit, but our guys simply have to catch the ball.  I don't have the exact stat in front of me, but I heard on our radio show that the amateur receivers at Notre Damn caught the ball with an alarmingly higher efficiency than the Browns' receivers.  Would someone please explain THAT to me?  I seriously doubt Kizer is throwing it that much harder now than in college, right?  So what the heck is the problem?  

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31 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Kizer needs to work on his touch a little bit, but our guys simply have to catch the ball.  I don't have the exact stat in front of me, but I heard on our radio show that the amateur receivers at Notre Damn caught the ball with an alarmingly higher efficiency than the Browns' receivers.  Would someone please explain THAT to me?  I seriously doubt Kizer is throwing it that much harder now than in college, right?  So what the heck is the problem?  

Kizer needs to get the ball out of his hands on time & no Hue, you can't make Kizer into Big Ben by holding it..Kizer when under pressure to protect the football squeeze's the PSI right out of it..Watch Kizer release if/when he see's a clean pocket..Release will roll off fingers not punched off fingers  

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11 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Gotta disagree... QBs have to throw catchable balls. That's not the same as lower velocity balls, but the faster the throw, the more accuracy is required of the throw.

In prosecution of Kizer, he has to make better decisions and be more accurate.

In defense of Kizer, you have to surmise that the Browns were expecting more from Crowell so the offense would not be on Kizers shoulders. If someone had told me prior to the season that Crowell would only have 134 yards after 4 games, I would have bet the mortgage that he would have at least that much yardage in 2 - 3 games. At first I figured that teams were playing 7 in the box to stop the run and force Kizer to throw. They likely still are, but Crowell is playing hurt too.

Kizer is getting a trial by fire thats for sure. I thought he and Coleman had some chemistry and now he is gone.

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Ya know, it seems like almost every team gets a blowout victory at some point during the season. Maybe not every team, but it sure seems like even the relatively bad teams out there have that one game where they dominate the opposition. Kind of like when the Jags destroyed the Ravens in London. Could we use that or WHAT? 

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1 hour ago, boo fagley said:

In prosecution of Kizer, he has to make better decisions and be more accurate.

In defense of Kizer, you have to surmise that the Browns were expecting more from Crowell so the offense would not be on Kizers shoulders. If someone had told me prior to the season that Crowell would only have 134 yards after 4 games, I would have bet the mortgage that he would have at least that much yardage in 2 - 3 games. At first I figured that teams were playing 7 in the box to stop the run and force Kizer to throw. They likely still are, but Crowell is playing hurt too.

Kizer is getting a trial by fire thats for sure. I thought he and Coleman had some chemistry and now he is gone.

Are you baiting Gipper?

I agree... especially on the run game and Coleman chemistry, and I'll add in a stingier D to boot.

I do see Kizer's decisions improving. As for his accuracy... the more I look at all-22's as they are available, as they were in TCPO's fine thread, the more receiver culpability I note.

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14 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... Clearly you are not... cause... you know... r-e-s-e-a-r-c-h.

As for the reason the completion rates have been so low... definitely a combination of QB and WR errors, however, early I think most fell on Kizer and since then it's been shifting to the WR groups.

My research...which has been thorough...indicates our receivers sucked last year too.....and the numbers have declined, because this years QB is even worse...

13 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

 if you’re an NFL WR, you catch the ball that hits you in the hands. That’s just how it is.

And research will show you that the great WR's catch at a higher percentage than their QB throws.....in other words, they elevate his play.......while the lesser receivers are the ones lowering his completion percentage......an example would be what Antonio Brown did to us week one......

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

 you can't make Kizer into Big Ben 

No you cant.....but a few decent receivers would improve Kizers numbers......Corey Coleman had the lowest catch rate on our team last year AND this year(less Britt).....good receivers will catch 60-80%.....Coleman is a career 45% catch rate....

1 hour ago, boo fagley said:

 

Kizer is getting a trial by fire thats for sure. I thought he and Coleman had some chemistry and now he is gone.

See the stats above.....Coleman has one of the lowest catch rates in the league(and our team).last year AND this year.....he does NOT elevate his QB or bail him out.....he needs it on a silver platter and still might drop it......anyone waiting for Coleman to come back and save the day is going to be very disappointed....45% guys.....45%

Look....all coaches play the percentages....you HAVE to.....and any player that succeeds less than half the time is not a high percentage player or someone who should be your "go to".....to win, you have to be on the plus side of 50%(minimum) and preferably closer to 65-70% on average......most good QB's are in the 65-70% completion range.....SO, if your QB completes 70% of his passes and your #1 only catches 45%, then something is very very wrong with that equation.....

I will add that there are no QB's in the league below 50% completion rate.....so any WR that is, shouldnt be playing...and definitely shouldnt be starting....or even worse, your #1.....\

Yet...here we are......Coleman(45%) was our #1 and now Britt(33%) has been the one selected to step in for him......

Absolutely.....100% .....pathetic.....

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4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Are you baiting Gipper?

I agree... especially on the run game and Coleman chemistry, and I'll add in a stingier D to boot.

I do see Kizer's decisions improving. As for his accuracy... the more I look at all-22's as they are available, as they were in TCPO's fine thread, the more receiver culpability I note.

He cant touch me here in Kansas and he will never know when Im in Ohio.

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9 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Not that it matters now, but Stefon Diggs [who was a Brown for a cup of coffee and a cronut a couple seasons ago] is now the NFL's highest-rated WR.

But at least we've got someone off the waiver-wire named Kasen!

Yeah...I think you have him confused with someone else.....was never a Brown, though we'd love to have him.....

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yep, was thinking of charles johnson.  and he's on IR for back surgery from the panthers roster

The comment on the yahoo popup for Josh Gordon is "The Browns are ludicrously thin at WR" which sounds like a fad diet pill.

With the many picks from a trade-down, we need another first-round WR and first-round CB and first-round RB in the next draft.. That's not asking too much, is it?

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31 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

yep, was thinking of charles johnson.  and he's on IR for back surgery from the panthers roster

The comment on the yahoo popup for Josh Gordon is "The Browns are ludicrously thin at WR" which sounds like a fad diet pill.

With the many picks from a trade-down, we need another first-round WR and first-round CB and first-round RB in the next draft.. That's not asking too much, is it?

None of it means Sheet with a last round HC. Hue has had some bad days, but today was the last one for me. He just sucks and we need to start the search or turn it over to Williams with a new OC. You just can't fix this with a bandaide. We have the Knight with a flesh wound running this show. 

 

 

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