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How many more times are we starting the 4-fit at QB?

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8 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

You have to realize what your eyes are beholding. 

1) The Steelers are a traditionally slow starting team, and under Tomlin, they play very conservative.

2) Nobody ever really saw Kizer before, the Steelers laid off of him, and made him pass. Once he did, he exposed himself as a horrible passer.

3) Paxton Lynch will have his time, just like Steve Young, his time will come. He will be in the league long after Browns fans have forgotten Sockeyed Kizer.

Being right more than wrong, doesn't make me happy. In fact, it is actually sad because each year I come in here and educate people, most of what I predict comes true, but it doesn't matter because posters here just keep believing the same horseschidt over and over.

 Being the messenger is a thankless job, but somebody has to do it.

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3 hours ago, boo fagley said:

 Being the messenger is a thankless job, but somebody has to do it.

Thanks Ghoo.........................................................................er.....................................boo................ for bringing your message forward so that I may now ignore you too. All I have to do now is add "policeman" to that list and any other that keeps praising you...................er.......................Ghoolie.:lol:

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3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Thanks Ghoo.........................................................................er.....................................boo................ for bring your message forward so that I may now ignore you too. All I have to do now is add "policeman" to that list and any other that keeps praising you...................er.......................Ghoolie.:lol:

Bye Bye

Hook em Horns!

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14 hours ago, hoorta said:

Just rewatched the Bungles debacle TC. Butterfingers Britt sure didn't help Kizer muffing another pass that turned into an interception, and flat out dropping at least one more. BUT. I still don't like Kizer's attempts at being accurate- at all. He sailed three sideline passes to his right a mile over the receivers heads. Several others too low and in the dirt. On a positive note- Deshone doesn't look as bad as Akilli Smith did, but it's not good. 

EDIT: Just MHO- Kizer's been throwing a football probably since he was 5 years old. By this time you're either an accurate passer or you're not. I don't think you can "teach" accuracy or "coach" it significantly by refining technique. Hue thinks he can though. BTW, I saw Blake Bortles throw some clunkers in that Jets OT game, and he's had a couple years to work on his accuracy. 

Hue wants to stick with DK? Great- I thought Jackson  said we need to build a "winning culture".  LOL, it sure ain't happening this year unless Kizer improves 100% and the defense starts scoring points too. & Hue, don't insult my intelligence by saying Kizer had a great game against the Bengals. He's learned to throw the ball away? Great- that's something he should have learned in college. 

 

I don't think Hue does think that at all. And I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find any quotes that say Hue is going to turn Kizer into a WCO accurate short passer.  Changing the physical attributes and style of a player is a next-to-impossible task, but accuracy isn't 100% a physical thing. There's plenty of variables that affect accuracy, and more than one of them can be improved. 

It's next to impossible to take a Tebow and make him into a pinpoint accurate passer, but its certainly not impossible to improve a young players game. Brett Favre was a 52% passer in college. In the NFL? 62%. Montana was a 52% passer in college. In the NFL? 63%. Did these guys come to the NFL and radically change the way they moved their bodies? No. They became better-versed in their offensive gameplans, made better decisions with the ball, refined their technique and...well...they had NFL receivers bailing them out at times.

You saw Bortles throw some clunkers, huh? Me too. I've also seen Manning, Brady, Elway, Favre, Bradshaw, Marino et al throw some clunkers. Because throwing a football thirty yards downfield to a WR running 25 MPH is a difficult task. Even the greats only complete over a little over half of their throws in their career. There will always be clunkers. 

You're looking at Kizer and wanting him to be someone else, and that will never happen. So that will always cloud your judgment. You have a picture in your head of what a successful QB is and that is a 65% or better passer who gets the ball out quick and dishes out short passes with pinpoint accuracy. Kizer isn't that and he never will be that. But that's not the only way to build a QB. 

With all that said, yeah it's been a rough couple weeks but Kizer is unfairly shouldering a lot of the blame. There's plenty of blame to go around. 

Similarly, Crow takes a lot of the blame (and lord knows I don't like him), but the narrative that he's a poor shotgun back really holds no water - he was actually more effective last year operating out of the shotgun than he was under center, posting a higher YPC as well as a higher stick efficiency (first downs and touchdowns). Our playcalling splits haven't changed, we're still relatively close to the same distribution of shotgun/under center plays (60/40) as well as the same run/pass breakdowns under center or in shotgun.

So if our playcalling splits haven't changed, and our RB hasn't changed, and our blocking schemes haven't changed - what did change? Well, our offensive line personnel changed. So far, I am less than pleased with Tretter and our interior three have had some growing pains (which is to be expected). On paper, they are a better group but they haven't quite hit that gelling spot yet, they are still operating clunky and simple things like delayed stunts have been pretty successful against them thus far. They'll get there eventually but right now there's been enough growing pains to actually mention.

  • Part of our struggle running the ball can be attributed to the fact that our passing game is stagnant. 
  • Part of the reason our passing game is stagnant is because Kizer is missing initial reads and holding on to the ball too long
  • Part of the reason Kizer is holding on to the ball too long is because our WR's are running bad routes or not getting separation
  • Part of the reason they are running bad routes/not gaining separation is because they are young, inexperienced or bad and aren't really starting level talent
  • Part of the reason we're playing starting level talent is because Coleman is hurt and because we didn't address the WR corps, expecting to rely on the run this year while Kizer learned
  • Part of the reason we're not able to rely on the run this year is because our run game is struggling right now. 
  • Go to the top of the list.

Notice I said "part of the reason" for each of those. There is no single solution to any problem. But I'm fairly certain that, were Crow averaging 5 YPC and moving the sticks at a rate commensurate with last season, Kizer would have a little more room to throw and fans would be a little more willing to overlook his early struggles. The Bengals game was an absolute abortion but Kizer has shown glimpses of what I saw from him in college. It would be nice if he had a receiver who he could trust but alas, right now we have 3-4 tackling dummies running decently shitty routes on any given play.  We don't have an active receiver with over a 50% catch percentage. For comparison's sake, the Texans only have one receiver with a sub-50% catch percentage, and it's Braxton Miller. Catch percentage is a broad stat but it paints enough of a picture of the current state of our WR corps.

 

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6 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

With all that said, yeah it's been a rough couple weeks but Kizer is unfairly shouldering a lot of the blame. There's plenty of blame to go around. 

Notice I said "part of the reason" for each of those. There is no single solution to any problem. But I'm fairly certain that, were Crow averaging 5 YPC and moving the sticks at a rate commensurate with last season, Kizer would have a little more room to throw and fans would be a little more willing to overlook his early struggles. The Bengals game was an absolute abortion but Kizer has shown glimpses of what I saw from him in college. It would be nice if he had a receiver who he could trust but alas, right now we have 3-4 tackling dummies running decently shitty routes on any given play.  We don't have an active receiver with over a 50% catch percentage. For comparison's sake, the Texans only have one receiver with a sub-50% catch percentage, and it's Braxton Miller. Catch percentage is a broad stat but it paints enough of a picture of the current state of our WR corps.

 

Make that WR "corpse" TC, headed by the suddenly- since he got paid- Kenny "dead hands" Britt. I just think we're going to have to see things differently on Deshone. I was underwhelmed by his play at ND, and i'm not exactly thrilled by his play in the NFL- so far. Of course- I hope he "gets it". 

He's not going to have a Bortles level of opportunity though. MHO it's bye, or bye-bye. We're not going to try and develop a scattershot cannon- with Darnold and Allen waiting in the wings. 

FWIW, that's what bothering me about the Hue Happy Club. What? You played like crap? Don't worry, be happy- we're going to "coach you up". No consequences for bad play. None. and it just might be- Hue's paranoid he puts in Hogan- he's going to outperform "work in progress" Kizer.  

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6 hours ago, hoorta said:

Make that WR "corpse" TC, headed by the suddenly- since he got paid- Kenny "dead hands" Britt. I just think we're going to have to see things differently on Deshone. I was underwhelmed by his play at ND, and i'm not exactly thrilled by his play in the NFL- so far. Of course- I hope he "gets it". 

He's not going to have a Bortles level of opportunity though. MHO it's bye, or bye-bye. We're not going to try and develop a scattershot cannon- with Darnold and Allen waiting in the wings. 

FWIW, that's what bothering me about the Hue Happy Club. What? You played like crap? Don't worry, be happy- we're going to "coach you up". No consequences for bad play. None. and it just might be- Hue's paranoid he puts in Hogan- he's going to outperform "work in progress" Kizer.  

I can understand the dilemma for Hue. Last year he was under fire for yanking Kessler while we actually had a lead (if I recall correctly) and he gave up on him early on. This year he wants to avoid the same mistake with Kizer who has shown at times that he really can move the team (before someone screws up the drive). So part of the reason we are 0-4 is he has that dilemma.

Part of the reason we are 0-4, besides offense, is that the defense is not playing well either. And part of the reason they are not playing well is we are missing 3 key defenders on an admittedly thinly talented team overall. And part of the reason it is thinly talented is the lack of a FS so we created the new CF position that is ineffective in stopping long drives.

What a mess.

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On 10/3/2017 at 8:50 AM, MLD Woody said:

Hogan

 

That's the answer. Always. Apparently

Yeah, you're right Missedagain - we looked a lot better scoring zero points with Kizer than 2 TDs with Hogan today.   When your defense only gives up 8 yards rushing and 57 yards passing in 1 half - being down 3-0 at halftime is unacceptable.   Yes, I know Kizer has a strong arm like Jamarcus Russell and Brandon Weeden so you want to forfeit all 16 games because he's just like them?

Why do you suppose his college coach said he's not ready at all?  BTW, they're a much better team this year in case that matters as much as Kizer's arm strength to you.

 

 

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On 10/5/2017 at 7:14 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

What a mess.

That says it all....

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38 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

That says it all....

I'm now convinced that Hue is the mess. Worst gameday coach I have ever seen at this level. One poor decision after another and one poor playcall after another. It's like he has no redzone plan that has been practiced all week. And who the hell does not kick the tying FG, especially when you are struggling to score anything. Just plain inexcusable.

 

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50 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Just plain inexcusable.

 

eggsactly...enraging!!!.....and it's been non stop since he's been here////noy a QB guru....not a top Offensive mind.....not a game day coach....not a good talent evaluator.....just dont see what he brings to the table, other than a chipper attitude(which is vanishing too)

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There where opportunities to win this.  Play call killed it

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9 minutes ago, LBC mike said:

There where opportunities to win this.  Play call killed it

And decision against the FG to tie when we were struggling to score anything. Stupid is as stupid does.

Had to say it twice because it still pisses me off.

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Ran the ball when we should have thrown and vice versa 

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On 10/5/2017 at 12:38 AM, hoorta said:

 I just think we're going to have to see things differently on Deshone. I was underwhelmed by his play at ND, and i'm not exactly thrilled by his play in the NFL- so far. Of course- I hope he "gets it". 

He's not going to have a Bortles level of opportunity though. MHO it's bye, or bye-bye. We're not going to try and develop a scattershot cannon- with Darnold and Allen waiting in the wings. 

FWIW, that's what bothering me about the Hue Happy Club. What? You played like crap? Don't worry, be happy- we're going to "coach you up". No consequences for bad play. None. and it just might be- Hue's paranoid he puts in Hogan- he's going to outperform "work in progress" Kizer.  

I hate quoting myself- but Kizer sailed yet another sideline pass to his right a mile high. The int on the Dawgpound side was horrendous. 

Finally benched Kizer. But Deshone is still "his guy". Like RG III and Kessler? Look at the stat sheet much Hue?

Kizer 8\17 87 yards 0TD 1 int rate: 38.1

Hogan 16\19 194 yards 2TD 1 int rate: 122.4

Excuse me while I barf. If the "process" is to have the #1 overall pick again in 2018, congrats, you're right on track. 

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6 hours ago, hoorta said:

I hate quoting myself- but Kizer sailed yet another sideline pass to his right a mile high. The int on the Dawgpound side was horrendous. 

Finally benched Kizer. But Deshone is still "his guy". Like RG III and Kessler? Look at the stat sheet much Hue?

Kizer 8\17 87 yards 0TD 1 int rate: 38.1

Hogan 16\19 194 yards 2TD 1 int rate: 122.4

Excuse me while I barf. If the "process" is to have the #1 overall pick again in 2018, congrats, you're right on track. 

But remember Larry.. According to Hue.. Kaiser Rolls is playing lights out!

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2 hours ago, nickers said:

But remember Larry.. According to Hue.. Kaiser Rolls is playing lights out!

Very true. He always seems like he's in the dark.

WSS

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