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Tour2ma

Williams' DEEP Safety D... Innovation or Compensation?

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... or both? I've never seen anything like it in a base D.

We've heard Gregg is innovative... that seems to be born out. We've heard he's adaptive, that he modifies scheme to suit his personnel... seems to have been the case in his earlier DC stints... no real reason to doubt that continues. So...

  • What's the case in CLE?
  • If he's Compensating, for who? Our CBs? Peppers? The other 10?

Whatever the case it would seem that it "worked" Week 1... less so Week 2.

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They score less runs if you have a good centerfielder. Indians should copy this...............................................oh wait!:rolleyes:

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U would think with peppers athleticism he could recover deep so he can play closer. But thats armchair thinking, williams prob has him there for a reason. 

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Yup... but what is it?

I half think it's that we lack a true FS and where Peppers has the speed for the role, he's not good enough at taking angles to deep balls to play more shallow.

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Yeah i considered that, wasnt there tape tho that soneone just put up that showed peppers taking a flawless line to a deep ball? I dunno. Im impressed with peppers so far but i want to see him up more helping in the run game

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Tanner at 2nd base..Timmy Lupis dandelion section zzzz..Oh! Compensating against 2 QB's with some deep weapons vs our slow coverage back-end team speed keeping every thing in front..Playing in.. seemed to work at camp cause our slow LB's could cover our slow TE's(except to watch Njoku drop balls)..Have you seen our fine corp of WR's that got open deep during camp? Think they may continue to play back again the same with TY Hilton,AJ Green..might creep in with Jets to help underneath(that's all they do) but back out again with D.Hopkins..Woody's Peppers Jersey now has taped Lupis across name.Book It;)    

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Peppers plays mainly as an "in the box safety" in college

Critics say he can't play deep safety

Williams puts him deeper than any safety has ever been

 

 

Lol

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You say that as if it's a good thing...

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

Tanner at 2nd base..Timmy Lupis dandelion section zzzz..Oh! Compensating against 2 QB's with some deep weapons vs our slow coverage back-end team speed keeping every thing in front..Playing in.. seemed to work at camp cause our slow LB's could cover our slow TE's(except to watch Njoku drop balls)..Have you seen our fine corp of WR's that got open deep during camp? Think they may continue to play back again the same with TY Hilton,AJ Green..might creep in with Jets to help underneath(that's all they do) but back out again with D.Hopkins..Woody's Peppers Jersey now has taped Lupis across name.Book It;)    

Yet our corners are playing well. McCourty especially...

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9 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

You say that as if it's a good thing...

Yet our corners are playing well. McCourty especially...

2games,2 QB's..Ben-24-36=263 2 tds///Joe 25-34=217 2 tds..Maybe not so much in coverage, Both only missed on 11 & 9 attempts..But they are tackling..Peppers 4 than 5..J.Taylor 3T 3 assist than 8T 1A...Kindred 2T 1A than 6T 1A.....McCourny 2T 1A than 3T 1A....BBC 1T 2A than 2T..we do swarm to the ball better..coverage? am still not convinced? And losing Haden has had no factor in it at all..

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Well... now we have an article...

Deep Thinking: Browns Playing Rookie Safety Peppers Way Back

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2017/09/21/deep-thinking-browns-playing-rookie-safety-peppers-way-back/

 

Basically it's explained as a conscious decision to eliminate the deep ball threat... not one to compensate for anyone's limitations.

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2 great lines watching Ravens Game from 83 year old DaD..1."We can't cover a bed nor TE with a 20 foot by 20 foot bedspread" 2."Look how much better Goff has been Without Kenny Britt"...wishing them :)'s can never end 

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On 9/20/2017 at 6:03 PM, MLD Woody said:

Peppers plays mainly as an "in the box safety" in college

Critics say he can't play deep safety

Williams puts him deeper than any safety has ever been

 

 

Lol

This is where my head's been at since seeing our D in game 1.

Peppers is athletic....but not so much when he's standing in outer space.

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In a potentially related story...

PFF CLV Browns @PFF_Cleveland

The #Browns are one of only two teams with two top-10 graded CBs through Week 2: J. McCourty (4th-86.0) and B. Boddy-Calhoun (10th-84.2).

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5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Well... now we have an article...

Deep Thinking: Browns Playing Rookie Safety Peppers Way Back

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2017/09/21/deep-thinking-browns-playing-rookie-safety-peppers-way-back/

 

Basically it's explained as a conscious decision to eliminate the deep ball threat... not one to compensate for anyone's limitations.

 

Wish I would have seen this thread sooner, this would have been my go to explanation.

When you play press and challenge receivers at the line as much as Williams does that lone man is there to do essentially one thing - prevent TD's.  I'm sure a bit of it has to do with Peppers taking some questionable angles but there is a TON of space to operate between the backers and that deep third.

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On 9/20/2017 at 10:01 AM, Tour2ma said:

... or both? I've never seen anything like it in a base D.

We've heard Gregg is innovative... that seems to be born out. We've heard he's adaptive, that he modifies scheme to suit his personnel... seems to have been the case in his earlier DC stints... no real reason to doubt that continues. So...

  • What's the case in CLE?
  • If he's Compensating, for who? Our CBs? Peppers? The other 10?

Whatever the case it would seem that it "worked" Week 1... less so Week 2.

Greg is a jackoff. A man that designs a D to fit his players isn't a coach, he is a panderer; he is floundering; he is a ship with no rudder. To be successful in anything requires a plan, core beliefs, faith in the system you designed. Why don't the Browns attract the best players? Why are Browns players so soft? On defense it is because Greg WIlliams stands for nothing, other than aggression....................... like being a bounty hunter.................(Isn't it funny that Browns fans hate the "dirty" Steelers, but chant In WILLIAMS WE TRUST for a guy who participated in bounty hunting.

******************************************************************************************************************************************************************

 

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33 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

When you play press and challenge receivers at the line as much as Williams does that lone man is there to do essentially one thing - prevent TD's.  I'm sure a bit of it has to do with Peppers taking some questionable angles but there is a TON of space to operate between the backers and that deep third.

Makes sense... and based on McCorty and BBC's top ten, PFF ranking (posted elsewhere), it might be working.

One thing not mentioned yet is Schobert is also playing the deepest, bass Mike I've seen, but that's an awful lot of space and with his depth shallow crosses become viable.

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Makes sense... and based on McCorty and BBC's top ten, PFF ranking (posted elsewhere), it might be working.

One thing not mentioned yet is Schobert is also playing the deepest, bass Mike I've seen, but that's an awful lot of space and with his depth shallow crosses become viable.

I guess I don't see it any different as being a backer in a cover 2 carrying a vertical down the seam.     Again, only issue is where the safety help may be.     I think that will be a way to continuously attack that look.    Some kind of smash/divide concept except replacing your traditional outside curls with shallow crossers.    You see that Mike backer vacate and as a QB, you're replacing him fast.

As with any look, it's only as effective as the pass rush infront of it.    That was lacking Sunday.   Even on our designed pressures, no rush lanes were created to free up the blitzers which is incredibly frustrating seeing as how Baltimore got Flacco on the move early and we couldn't attack his limited mobility. 

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well, imho, from the previous week, flacculence vs the Bengals defense... he threw for 121 yards. he completed 9 passes, 17 throws. Maclin had 2 receptions for 56 yards. and their veteran, of playoff games, with excellent AJ Green, had four interceptions. Ratbirds won, 20-0.

  Knowing that, the Browns put Peppers back to stop the long completions, didn't matter - the offense turned the ball over

with ints and fumble... wears a defense out.   It is only two games vs the Browns top two opponents, both in their division. Who expected them to be 2 and 0 at this point?

If Candy Dalton can throw 4 ints, why is it a shock that Kizer had a bad game? Kizer is a rookie with no A. J. Green, no Antonio Brown.... etc etc etc. I remember years when the Browns would lose 42-6 here and there.

This defense kicks ass. The offense, well, it's tough to finish building on both sides of the ball and go to the superbowl in two drafts. Plain truth is, I won't be surprised if the Browns draft a wr in the first round, and a top big fast rb in the second? round next year. I believe Goff didn't start last year, Kizer is, give him a break. I hated that they had to start Kizer, but... there wasn't a better alternative. the squealer and ratbird defenses are that good, and their

offenses aren't the worst, either. Can't wait til this next couple of games.

 

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11 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

Wish I would have seen this thread sooner, this would have been my go to explanation.

When you play press and challenge receivers at the line as much as Williams does that lone man is there to do essentially one thing - prevent TD's.  I'm sure a bit of it has to do with Peppers taking some questionable angles but there is a TON of space to operate between the backers and that deep third.

We'll see how it plays out in the long-term, but this thinking got the Browns destroyed in the intermediate game. I think Flacco was literally perfect on the intermediate throws last week in this regard, and he's no world beater QB at this point.  Williams isn't the type of guy to change so I'm sure we're going to see more of it though. But I hope if the week 2 trends continues he realizes four 10 yard passes are just as bad as one 40 yard bomb. 

I suppose my thinking is that even the best QB's require much more talent to throw a dime long-ball than an open short/intermediate route. It was quite maddening to see how wide open the middle of the field was cause Peppers was 25/30 yards back.

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47 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

... he realizes four 10 yard passes are just as bad as one 40 yard bomb. 

Assuming all are completed... sure. But I'm betting the operative factor is that the odds of 4 short, consecutive plays being successful are less than one long one...

Holy Analytics!

Now the next question is around the impact on field position, but my brain is now tired, so maybe later...

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3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Assuming all are completed... sure. But I'm betting the operative factor is that the odds of 4 short, consecutive plays being successful are less than one long one...

Holy Analytics!

Now the next question is around the impact on field position, but my brain is now tired, so maybe later...

Field position? We got us a prime time rookie QB! We don't need no field position!:D

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