Hue and the offense

[LondonBrown]

An article that although not very well written, at least grammatically, raises some interesting points 

https://nflspinzone.com/2017/09/18/cleveland-browns-hue-jackson-problem-offense-not-deshone-kizer/

[TexasAg1969]

"If Crowell continues to struggle, run Duke Johnson. Find someone else."

Dayes is better. Get him in the f'n game.

[200lbMumford]

I've never understood two regimes both ignoring the upside of using Duke Johnson more.  And I'll never understand Hue Jackson's quick abandonment of the run repeatedly.

[Ibleedbrown]

Yeah, some points in there. A little strangely written. Emasculating the offensive line? Weird ass thing to say for a sports writer to make a point.

l remember preseason Hue, "l know we can run the ball." But yeah, proof in that pudding. The emasculated pudding.

[jrb12711]

I'll put it as simply as it gets. You invested over 100 million dollars long-term to make a team that should be able to run the ball. You have a rookie QB who needs to settle into the game.

As such, running the ball 21 times is baffling to me. Further, not running the ball with nearly 13 minutes in the 4th quarter with your RB on the two yard line is inexcusable. Despite how god awful the game was going, we had an excellent chance to get within a TD just by running the fucking ball with someone who didn't leave with a migraine and Hue scoffed. Have to admit, the patience is beginning to wain based on coaches decision-making. I can't even get into how poorly he managed the last possession before half-time without clinching my fist.

[hx214]

I feel like Duke Johnson is the perfect back for the situation that the Browns are in with the other defenses playing with a stacked box against Kizer. 

He can get outside the tackles, he can catch and be an outlet receiver on to give Kizer the check down, he has the speed needed to break that stacked box up. 

Only thing is I'm not sure he can pass block well enough, but it really doesn't look like Crowell is the answer at all. 

[Canton Dawg]

I have several issues with Hue as the OC;

1) Why does it take so long to get the play to the huddle?

2) When the play finally makes it to the QB, they're already short on clock, but Hue has them sidestepping & square dancing before the snap.

3) Why does Hue give up on the running game so quickly?

4) When the Browns have the ball 1st & goal inside the 5, he always tries one of those cute little WR bubble screens (that NEVER work).

My patience with Hue is wearing thin as it is, but he REALLY needs to hire an OC...cause basically he really sucks at it. 

[Ghoolie]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

"If Crowell continues to struggle, run Duke Johnson. Find someone else."

Dayes is better. Get him in the f'n game.

BUT BUT BUT........................ I thought the Offensive line fix took care of this? I mean..... do you realize we have JOE FUCKING THOMAS.........and we have the highest paid OL in the NFL..................................SO, that's not enough? I mean weren't you one of the OL jism drinkers?

Let me explain it again to you jackoffs. With no playmakers on offense, opposing defenses will stay home, not bite on play fakes and jam the line. No 5 men can block 8.

SIMPLE SIMPLE SIMPLE

[Ghoolie]

4 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I have several issues with Hue as the OC;

1) Why does it take so long to get the play to the huddle?

2) When the play finally makes it to the QB, they're already short on clock, but Hue has them sidestepping & square dancing before the snap.

3) Why does Hue give up on the running game so quickly?

4) When the Browns have the ball 1st & goal inside the 5, he always tries one of those cute little WR bubble screens (that NEVER work).

My patience with Hue is wearing thin as it is, but he REALLY needs to hire an OC...cause basically he really sucks at it. 

YAWN...................Who was it that wanted Hue fired after his first preseason game? Who was it that said Hue is in over his head and is the worst head coach in the history of the Browns? Oh yeah................that was me. But hey, don't listen to me, you go right ahead and knock yourself out trying to figure out why Forrest Fucking Gump is not Einstein.

Idiots.

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, 200lbMumford said:

I've never understood two regimes both ignoring the upside of using Duke Johnson more.  And I'll never understand Hue Jackson's quick abandonment of the run repeatedly.

Again....the only plausible reason is because the Browns are always playing from behind.

[The Gipper]

54 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

BUT BUT BUT........................ I thought the Offensive line fix took care of this? I mean..... do you realize we have JOE FUCKING THOMAS.........and we have the highest paid OL in the NFL..................................SO, that's not enough? I mean weren't you one of the OL jism drinkers?

Let me explain it again to you jackoffs. With no playmakers on offense, opposing defenses will stay home, not bite on play fakes and jam the line. No 5 men can block 8.

SIMPLE SIMPLE SIMPLE

Joe Thomas does not call the plays.  If they would run behind Joe...they probably would be a lot better off.  Don't you pay any fucking attention to what people say?

[The Gipper]

52 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

YAWN...................Who was it that wanted Hue fired after his first preseason game? Who was it that said Hue is in over his head and is the worst head coach in the history of the Browns? Oh yeah................that was me. But hey, don't listen to me, you go right ahead and knock yourself out trying to figure out why Forrest Fucking Gump is not Einstein.

Idiots.

Hue may need to hire an OC....not be fired as HC.

[CaineDeSoulis]

42 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Hue may need to hire an OC....not be fired as HC.

the fact that in 2 seasons he has NOT hired on OC brings legitimacy to letting him go. He has in the past and continues to show his arrogance and unwillingness to adapt. spending so much time on kizer to have him play this poorly while neglecting the offense. did you see the way offense played? laziness is contagious.

[Tour2ma]

4 hours ago, LondonBrown said:

An article that although not very well written, at least grammatically, raises some interesting points 

https://nflspinzone.com/2017/09/18/cleveland-browns-hue-jackson-problem-offense-not-deshone-kizer/

Meh...

First, as I essentially wrote in another thread, where was a run game worth sticking with?

Second, it's not like Hue is not simplifying the game for Kizer. He's cutting the field in half for him and reducing reads, but he has to push him some at the same time. What is the proper balance between teaching/developing a QB and winning? Especially when a team has no chance of making the playoffs to begin with... and we don't... never did in year two of a rebuild.

I doubt Hue has asked Kizer to do anything in a game that he has not demonstrated he can do in the film room and on the practice field. What changes on Sunday is likely the level of talent he's asked to do it against.

 

A lot of folks here wanted Kizer to play... said he couldn't learn on the bench. Well... he's playing and many of those same folks are crying because we're not winning. Make up your fuckin' minds people.

 

Oh... and the delays, pre-snap penalties and such? Road game, people... crowd noise...

[The Gipper]

56 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Meh...

First, as I essentially wrote in another thread, where was a run game worth sticking with?

Second, it's not like Hue is not simplifying the game for Kizer. He's cutting the field in half for him and reducing reads, but he has to push him some at the same time. What is the proper balance between teaching/developing a QB and winning? Especially when a team has no chance of making the playoffs to begin with... and we don't... never did in year two of a rebuild.

I doubt Hue has asked Kizer to do anything in a game that he has not demonstrated he can do in the film room and on the practice field. What changes on Sunday is likely the level of talent he's asked to do it against.

 

A lot of folks here wanted Kizer to play... said he couldn't learn on the bench. Well... he's playing and many of those same folks are crying because we're not winning. Make up your fuckin' minds people.

 

Oh... and the delays, pre-snap penalties and such? Road game, people... crowd noise...

I fully expected growing pains from the kid.  And the failures to get rid of the ball, and the interceptions, and maybe some of the  delays in getting the calls in are a part of that.  And hopefully he will learn quickly to get better in those areas.  He will have a few games coming up here against what we think will be lesser opponents that might help his confidence. I don't know what to say about the migraines.

And its not even his play that is so bad....it is the overall offenses inability to avoid mistakes...and to be completely out of synch. That is more of a bitch about the coaching than it is about Kizer's play.  The play calling, the coordination of the offense.  These are the sorts of things that an HC would jump deep into the shit of his OC about....if the OC and HC were not one and the same.

[Ibleedbrown]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Meh...

First, as I essentially wrote in another thread, where was a run game worth sticking with?

A lot of the same arguments about Kizer getting reps to learn and take his lumps and growing pains and such can also be said about our Oline and the blocking scheme in general. It's 5 guys who simply haven't played much together as a unit with live shit hitting the fan. 

God love Joe Thomas, but his veteran day off status has acclimated to veteran pre-season off status. Zeitler and Tretter are new, and Bitinio and Coleman missed significant time last year. 

I would argue with the relative veteranness of that group, and Jackson's stated desire to run the ball, that group will find their groove faster than a rookie QB at honing their craft, so why not burn some early games plugging away at the run game more than you otherwise might so those guys can gel?

[The Gipper]

18 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

A lot of the same arguments about Kizer getting reps to learn and take his lumps and growing pains and such can also be said about our Oline and the blocking scheme in general. It's 5 guys who simply haven't played much together as a unit with live shit hitting the fan. 

God love Joe Thomas, but his veteran day off status has acclimated to veteran pre-season off status. Zeitler and Tretter are new, and Bitinio and Coleman missed significant time last year. 

I would argue with the relative veteranness of that group, and Jackson's stated desire to run the ball, that group will find their groove faster than a rookie QB at honing their craft, so why not burn some early games plugging away at the run game more than you otherwise might so those guys can gel?

Again....that can all be done when you get a lead.   Try getting a lead in a game....instead of always being behind the 8 ball.

[Canton Mike]

Can we please wait more than 2 games (against 2 of the top Ds we will face all year) before we begin CRUCIFYING the HC???

Rookie QB, OL that needs to gel, new D system, very young players etc, etc....TIME people...give them some TIME!!! Look at the ages of these players. They will  learn & grow together, but it ain't gonna happen overnight. We are finally working toward the long term success of the Browns & I read all this bitching. It just makes no sense to me.

Mike

[TexasAg1969]

3 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

Can we please wait more than 2 games (against 2 of the top Ds we will face all year) before we begin CRUCIFYING the HC???

Rookie QB, OL that needs to gel, new D system, very young players etc, etc....TIME people...give them some TIME!!! Look at the ages of these players. They will  learn & grow together, but it ain't gonna happen overnight. We are finally working toward the long term success of the Browns & I read all this bitching.

Mike

You and tour are not allowed to be voices of reason here on chicken little farms. Von Miller will be naming chickens after some here if this keeps up.

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

You and tour are not allowed to be voices of reason here on chicken little farms. Von Miller will be naming chickens after some here if this keeps up.

WE MUST HAVE IMMEDIATE NEGATIVE REACTIONS TO THINGS THE SECOND THEY HAPPEN AND MUST REFER TO PLAYERS AS PUSSIES TO GET OUR WELL-THOUGHT OUT POINTS ACROSS AT ALL TIMES! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!

[Mudfly]

Some of us had negative reactions to the play calling, lack of running game, player positioning and player evaluations well before this game.....or even this season...

This is not a new thing coming up because of this game......actually, this game is just more confirmation that the previous complaints have validity.....

Last season we were asking where is the running game and Hue stressed he was gonna feature it, then nothing......why not more Duke Johnson, when he;s had an equal or higher rushing average then Crow and can catch the ball better too?.....where is the play action or screen, both tools that would support the rookie QB and utilize our RB's, who are our only skill players....

Rashard Higgins?....ok, he had a nice game......BUT, Id caution that he's been invisible since he's been here.....and he was just "cut" a few weeks ago, meaning the coaches had him at the bottom......soooooooooo, if he ends up being a good one, Id ask why did they just cut him?.....can they not evaluate their own players?.......

WR is a deep dark abyss......(Im sorry, have I said this before???)

[calfoxwc]

bs. you have a rookie qb, no star wr's, wr's not getting open very often in the last game, vs a defense that DOMINATED all

preseason and their first regular season game. the ratbirds will probably beat the squealers by a larger margin than they

beat the Browns. You heard it here, first.

   There are plenty of problems with player evals around the league. On this board, there was somebody who "knew"

Paxton Lynch was a star, the best qb, etc etc etc etc etc....

there is no validity to all the screaming negative venting, after only two games, vs two strong division teams.

It's bs.Just like the Paxton Lynch venting that we could have had HIM instead. Give it a rest already.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/2000211-sports-and-racing-nfl/73649914

There is no way Paxton Lynch is not a bust

http://sportsnaut.com/2017/08/paxton-lynchs-struggles-reflect-poorly-on-john-elway/

 

[Mudfly]

5 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

bs. you have a rookie qb, no star wr's, wr's not getting open very often in the last game, vs a defense that DOMINATED all

preseason and their first regular season game.

So?......what does that have to do with uninspired (and stupid) play calling....terrible formations.....poor personnel choices?....

Nothing......

 

I been bitching about those WR's since we picked em CAL.....and you've been telling me they were great and I should wait to see just how great they are.....pretty sure you defended that Britt signing too and called me a crab for saying it like it is......so, to appease you, when AM I allowed to say it?.....

[Orion]

I still think that we're only 2 games into the season with the youngest team in the nfl and the youngest QB.

...and it's a passing league.  It's HARD to run in the nfl...so trying to run all the time will just result in a lot of punts.

[calfoxwc]

5 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

So?......what does that have to do with uninspired (and stupid) play calling....terrible formations.....poor personnel choices?....

Nothing......

 

I been bitching about those WR's since we picked em CAL.....and you've been telling me they were great and I should wait to see just how great they are.....pretty sure you defended that Britt signing too and called me a crab for saying it like it is......so, to appease you, when AM I allowed to say it?.....

more bs. nobody said the wr's were great. especially me. you bitch about every dang thing, and I suppose eventually you may be

correct on something, but seriously? They are the YOUNGEST TEAM IN THE NFL.  EVERY TEAM MAKES POOR CHOICES. I disagree

about the playcalling once in a while, as in the usual run on first and often, second down. I've clearly said earlier on, just a few weeks ago, that I loved how Bernie Kosar saw it. He said the first play of the game, he loved to throw a long bomb to get into the defenses'

heads. THAT is how you play the game.  Predictable run run pass gets you having to punt a lot vs good defenses. I don't understand that, but, I'm not an experte' on such matters. Seems like Hue's offense was pretty damn dynamic in Cincy. but NOW, it's

terrible even thoug the Browns are the youngest team in the NFL, don't have superstar wr's, with a rookie qb...etc etc?

Even John Elway missed badly on Paxton LYnch from somebody's Memphis. All this hate after two games vs two playoff teams?

Old. really old, Mud. Older than petrified mud.

[CaineDeSoulis]

Gregg williams for!!! HC atleast we would not have a lack of effort on offense. our o playbook would be like 5 plays but they would not have silly pre play shifts atleast lol

 

[Mudfly]

22 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

more bs. nobody said the wr's were great. especially me. you bitch about every dang thing, and I suppose eventually you may be

correct on something,

Not really Cal...you just dont pay attention......I bitched about our 4 WR's and thought they wouldnt pan out....esp Corey Coleman.....I bitch about taking Kess in the 3rd, because I thought he was UDFA quality......I bitched about the Britt signing and predicted he could be another Bowe.....I bitched about people calling Hue an offensive genious, then bitched about his game management and play calling......I bitched that Tretter may not be our saviour at C.....I bitched that we cut some decent players and replaced them with lesser players.....I bitched that we bought Horton back....

And, so far, I feel justified in almost all of it.......100%

I havent called for the coaches head(while many are).....I praised this years draft and gave props where they were due.....and, like Ive always said, I get that were young...dont expect a super bowl.....and I say it like I see it(not like I wish it will be someday).....WHEN they play well, I will say it....simple

Even John Elway missed badly on Paxton LYnch from somebody's Memphis. All this hate after two games vs two playoff teams?

So, whats your point?......I say we missed and you debate it(as if it's bad to say the truth).....THEN you justify it by saying Elways misses too.....so, does that mean you think Shashi has missed(like Elway?)....and, if so, how am I wrong for saying what we all know?

Old. really old, Mud. Older than petrified mud.

Your fantasy land is old Cal.....you turn on a dime.....and cant have a serious convo about anything.....

 

[calfoxwc]

oh, did I make you mad, mud? It just so happens that Hue bashing is stupid:

from wikipedia:

Cincinnati Bengals

Jackson was the wide receivers coach for the Cincinnati Bengals for 3 seasons. Under Jackson’s tutelage in Cincinnati, Chad Johnson and T. J. Houshmandzadeh became one of the most prolific wide-receiving tandems in the NFL. In 2005, the Johnson-Houshmandzadeh tandem combined to total 175 receptions for 2,388 yards, while helping the team secure the AFC North title and a playoff berth for the first time in 15 years. In 2006, Johnson (1,369 yards) and Houshmandzadeh (1,081 yards) became the first pair of Bengals to eclipse the 1,000-yard receiving mark in a single season. In each of Jackson's 3 years in Cincinnati, Johnson was named to the Pro Bowl.

Baltimore Ravens

From 2008 until 2009, Jackson spent as Baltimore’s quarterbacks coach under head coach John Harbaugh. In 2008, Jackson tutored Joe Flacco, who became the first rookie QB to win two playoff games in NFL history as the Ravens advanced to the AFC Championship game. He helped the Ravens advance to the postseason in both seasons.

Oakland Raiders

In 2010, under Jackson’s guidance as offensive coordinator, the Raiders' offense finished fourth in the AFC and sixth in the NFL in scoring (25.6 points per game). They also finished fifth in the AFC and 10th in the NFL in total offense (354.6 yards per game), and second in the NFL and AFC in rushing (155.9 yards per game). The Raiders more than doubled their scoring output from the previous year, totaling 410 points. Under Jackson's offense, RB Darren McFadden finished the season with 1,157 yards rushing on 223 carries for a 5.2 average yards/carry and 7 rushing touchdowns. McFadden also had 47 receptions for 507 yards and 3 touchdowns. His end of year numbers were 1,664 total yards and 10 total touchdowns for the 2010 NFL season, making McFadden the NFL's 5th leader in total yards from scrimmage for the 2010 season.

After the 2010 season, Jackson was named Oakland Raiders head coach in 2011, succeeding Tom Cable.^[3]

Jackson was fired by the Oakland Raiders on January 10, 2012, after one season as head coach, by new general manager Reggie McKenzie. In his lone season as head coach, the Raiders finished with a record of 8–8 and missed the playoffs after starting the season 7–4.^[4]

[calfoxwc]

The Browns had bigger fish to fry when building the Browns, they went defense a lot. Next year, I expect

at least one wr in the first round. Maybe even the star wr from....Notre Dame. I think your bitching is just

an attention getting venting bunch of hooey. and you aren't the only emotional devotional rager. It's only the second

game of the season. Too bad you can't wail about how the Browns looked terrible all preseason.

[200lbMumford]

21 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Again....the only plausible reason is because the Browns are always playing from behind.

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but he's (in my not so humble opinion) abandoning it too early when we're only down 1-2 scores.  I like Hue but I'd like to see him change his mindset here a little.