Ghoolie Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Haslam is bringing in a Cherry Picker for Sunday's game. He will life Kizer's dullard ass 12 feet in the air and let him take as long as he needs to throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Mudfly said: ......Hues idea of a trick play is to move a bunch of guys, pre snap.....stupid shit that fools no one..... I don't think it's meant to 'fool' anyone. It's more to see 'who' moves with the players. To see if it tips the D's hand to some degree. Ya know what I really hated in our past offenses? It's when we set up at the LOS and the D makes changes to their alignment (adjusting to what they see from us)...and we do NOTHING. We snap the ball and they stuff us. The same with our D. The offense would see our alignment, the QB would bark out some signals, the offense would realign...and our D would do nothing. Then they'd run the play and succeed against our D. I'm not a fan of 'trick' plays. It usually means putting guys in uncharacteristic positions and asking them to do things that they don't normally do...while the guys that normally DO do those things are doing things that THEY don't normally do. Usually we just trick ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Mudfly said: Trick plays??......I see excessive motion before plays(along with delay of game penalties)......Hues idea of a trick play is to move a bunch of guys, pre snap.....stupid shit that fools no one.....how about some creative "plays" Hue?.....how about some PA?.....how about plays that help your rookie team succeed?.....how about using the best tools you have....like 2 good RB's.....instead of leaning HEAVILY on your rookie QB and pathetic WR corps.....?????????????????????????????????????? and then run 3 fly routes and sometimes a deep curl.... INNOVATIVE!!!....GENIUS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 On 9/20/2017 at 2:08 PM, Ghoolie said: Tom Flugel was giving Phil Sewage and Romeo the Doughnut manscapes and chanting "In Sewage We Trust" when the Browns passed on Ben. I'm glad you stopped tea-bagging your Terry Bradshaw poster long enough to notice. I LOVED winning 10 games in 2007. Savage and Romeo made you disappear like a Houdini rabbit for an entire season. What's not to adore? And yes, I was very happy we didn't draft a serial rapist to be our franchise QB. Not much different than I felt about us avoiding your idea of Paxton Lynch as a franchise QB. Rumor has it, your boy Lynch is almost as smart as a pet rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Flugel said: Rumor has it, your boy Lynch is almost as smart as a pet rock. Spider two wide banana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Kevin Hogan's former Pac 12 rival (Jared Goff) reminds us it takes longer than 2 games for a young QB to emerge on a rebuilding team. The Rams prolly used Case Keenum more to prevent the ruin of Goff than any intended long term plan for Keenum. Last week, Kevin Hogan looked like he could be up to the task of giving us something far better than Case Keenum offers anyone. Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it. He is 6'3" and came out of pro style offense in comparison to a soph QB deciding to depart from Notre Dame's Chaotic sandlot spread. It's not that I don't want to give Kizer a chance; but some of these sacks he's taking in the pocket holding on to the ball forever has me feeling like he's not ready yet. About half of our 7 sacks vrs Pitt were from holding onto the ball way too long. Is it possible Kizer just had a bad game? Absolutely! That said, I'd like to think if Kevin Hogan offered us something better than body by Migraine headache - we keep him in on a day Kizer was producing more turnovers than the local bakery. I'm not a hater - I'm just seeing why Kizer's college coach said "he's not ready" more than I was willing to during the preseason. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. If Kosar wasn't ready to start until somewhere between week 5 and 7 as a rookie - what makes Kizer ready? The timing patterned deep ball to an area instead of reading progressions against preseason opponents that didn't game plan or film study him? I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. I've been wrong before though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 16 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: It really is puzzling. Hue decides to start a very young, not terribly experienced rookie at QB but doesn't seem to do much to make it easier for him. It is a main reason that he is being questioned in his decision making. He got a year of grace last year because things were so bad. But with a few games last year....and both games this year his play calling can come in for some serious questioning. A parallel could be if Marty Schottenheimer had put in BK in his first game and started having him throw constant bombs as if he was Daryl Lamonica. That is NOT the way to groom a rookie QB. Hue is doing the opposite of Marty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Flugel said: Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. Agreed..... After telling us(repeatedly) that they would not rush him.....they did exactly that, while pretending that he actually beat out the other guys... .....and they are rushing him, with little to no support to boot....no running attack or WR's, along with a fledging OL is not the formula to "develop" a young QB.....It's a formula to fail and/or create a shell shocked, deer in the headlights QB...... I hope he rebounds this week and has a good game.....another performance like last week and we might start seeing confidence issues start to develop with this one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 15 minutes ago, Mudfly said: I hope he rebounds this week and has a good game.....another performance like last week and we might start seeing confidence issues start to develop with this one.... If Hue does not Boner this up?...Leslie,Higgins,Duke & Dayes should have a nice day..Colts will more than likely throw most their keys at Crow imo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 17 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: It really is puzzling. Hue decides to start a very young, not terribly experienced rookie at QB but doesn't seem to do much to make it easier for him. A lot of Hue's "complex" shifts are designed to prompt Defensive adjustments that reveal coverages... that is a from of simplification. EDIT: Reading one more post would have saved me some time... 14 hours ago, Orion said: I don't think it's meant to 'fool' anyone. It's more to see 'who' moves with the players. To see if it tips the D's hand to some degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 47 minutes ago, Mudfly said: After telling us(repeatedly) that they would not rush him.....they did exactly that, while pretending that he actually beat out the other guys... Just not what I saw. Kizer cleared the basic hurdles of working under Center and delivering the play calls to the huddle. By all accounts Goff struggles with those are what kept him out of the line up and in "the plan". But once Goff was competent with the basics, he started. As for beating out others... he did... at least in executing Hue's Offense the way he want's it executed, i.e., deep shots. Plus IIRC he came out of Week 3 with the best stats in the QB room and against ever increasing competition from Week 1 thru Week 3. Lastly, I can't see Hogan making a difference in either game in 2017 to date. Do you? Does anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 How long do we play Kizer in Indy? What if he's struggling and looks distressed? What if he can't find clearly open guys? What about throws that are erratic passes? ie. passes into the dirt or out of bounds to open receivers? How many interceptions will you tolerate? What about holding the ball and staring down wide receivers? How about interceptions? I'm just curious because according to Hue and some of you guys it doesn't matter, the kid could shit himself and you'd still want to trot him out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 We're committed to Kizer now. It's that simple Po... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: , I can't see Hogan making a difference in either game in 2017 to date. Do you? Does anyone? No...I see Hogan and Kessler as the more appropriate sacrificial lambs.... And still see them "not" not rushing Kizer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Careful... or you'll get tied up in "nots"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 17 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: It really is puzzling. Hue decides to start a very young, not terribly experienced rookie at QB but doesn't seem to do much to make it easier for him. If you're trying to decide whether to roll with Kizer or to draft a QB high, you're going to throw everything you can at him. Sit back, see what he digests and if he can show progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 27 minutes ago, PoeticG said: How many interceptions will you tolerate? If he breaks Manning's rookie record, maybe we'll sit down and talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 34 minutes ago, PoeticG said: How long do we play Kizer in Indy? It's his Homecoming Weekend back in Indiana....Go watch a good Movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 48 minutes ago, PoeticG said: How long do we play Kizer in Indy? What if he's struggling and looks distressed? What if he can't find clearly open guys? What about throws that are erratic passes? ie. passes into the dirt or out of bounds to open receivers? How many interceptions will you tolerate? What about holding the ball and staring down wide receivers? How about interceptions? I'm just curious because according to Hue and some of you guys it doesn't matter, the kid could shit himself and you'd still want to trot him out there. Here's a serious question PoG: Let's say Hogan had won the starting job out of training camp, and he had performed EXACTLY like Kizer has so far in the first two games. Would you be calling for Kizer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 1 hour ago, PoeticG said: How long do we play Kizer in Indy? What if he's struggling and looks distressed? What if he can't find clearly open guys? What about throws that are erratic passes? ie. passes into the dirt or out of bounds to open receivers? How many interceptions will you tolerate? What about holding the ball and staring down wide receivers? How about interceptions? I'm just curious because according to Hue and some of you guys it doesn't matter, the kid could shit himself and you'd still want to trot him out there. Unless he gets hurt or has another migraine, we're stuck with him PO. Sorry about that. He better improve. If not, I"m wasting 4 hours of driving and $180 bucks + probably a $10 beer to watch crap in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 hours ago, PoeticG said: How long do we play Kizer in Indy? What if he's struggling and looks distressed? What if he can't find clearly open guys? What about throws that are erratic passes? ie. passes into the dirt or out of bounds to open receivers? How many interceptions will you tolerate? What about holding the ball and staring down wide receivers? How about interceptions? I'm just curious because according to Hue and some of you guys it doesn't matter, the kid could shit himself and you'd still want to trot him out there. Look. The kid won the starting job in TC & preseason. Blame that on the other 3 QB's (now down to 2). Or blame Hue's evaluation if you want. But the bottom line is that the rookie beat out the guys that have been here for a year. NOW, we let the rookie take his lumps. We coach him up. When he comes off the field after a series you go over to him and coach him up (let Greg Williams Head Coach his defense at that point). - A great many rookie QB's did not look too great in their first year. It comes with the territory. It's still tackle football...but it's a faster brand of tackle football, with good players at ALL position (compared to college). Sure, if you see consistent bad passes (like Brandon Weeden or Derick Anderson - throwing balls at the feet or waay behind receivers 8 yards in front of him) then maybe you decide that this guy just doesn't have the accuracy to play in the NFL. But the 'rookie mistakes' that Bradshaw, Aikman, EVERYBODY made/makes...those are things that ya just have to live and learn through. They would not have spent a 2nd round pick on Kizer if the thought that Kessler or Hogan was going to be the answer. At this point we have to use this opportunity to find out if we need to draft our QB of the future again this coming April or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Game One- Osweiler started. Then Kessler came in. Then they played Kizer. No reps for Hogan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_IPO4iox8E Game Two- Osweiler started. Then Kizer. Then Kessler. The Hogan was allowed to come in to take a couple knees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT5PH_2iS-Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Game Three- Kizer starts. Kessler comes in after halftime. Hogan enters in the 4th Quarter for the first time really, down 3 to 9. Hogan drives the team to a FG, then again for the game winner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzQM8dkwIk Game Four- Browns sit out Brock, word is they plan to try and trade or outright release Osweiler- as they intended to do all along, just gave him snaps to appear to be interested when we all know they just wanted the draft pick. They also name Kizer the starter for the opener and sit him as well. So this last game is Kessler and Hogan. Of course, Hue's guy Kessler gets the start. Kessler puts up 7 points in the first half. Hogan takes the second half and puts up 18 points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz4yBHGJT6M So, I don't know where Kizer earned the starting QB job. He was pretty much given the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFBF Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 6 hours ago, Orion said: Look. The kid won the starting job in TC & preseason. Blame that on the other 3 QB's (now down to 2). Or blame Hue's evaluation if you want. But the bottom line is that the rookie beat out the guys that have been here for a year. NOW, we let the rookie take his lumps. We coach him up. When he comes off the field after a series you go over to him and coach him up (let Greg Williams Head Coach his defense at that point). - A great many rookie QB's did not look too great in their first year. It comes with the territory. It's still tackle football...but it's a faster brand of tackle football, with good players at ALL position (compared to college). Sure, if you see consistent bad passes (like Brandon Weeden or Derick Anderson - throwing balls at the feet or waay behind receivers 8 yards in front of him) then maybe you decide that this guy just doesn't have the accuracy to play in the NFL. But the 'rookie mistakes' that Bradshaw, Aikman, EVERYBODY made/makes...those are things that ya just have to live and learn through. They would not have spent a 2nd round pick on Kizer if the thought that Kessler or Hogan was going to be the answer. At this point we have to use this opportunity to find out if we need to draft our QB of the future again this coming April or not. Pretty well sums things up as I see them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 hour ago, PoeticG said: So, I don't know where Kizer earned the starting QB job. He was pretty much given the job. I hear ya. We didn't get to see much of Hogan during the preseason. And when he DID play it was against the FPMA (future pizza makers of america). But he was on the team last year...so you have to figure that Hue knows his abilities. He's promoted him above Kessler.....so there is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Orion said: I hear ya. We didn't get to see much of Hogan during the preseason. And when he DID play it was against the FPMA (future pizza makers of america). But he was on the team last year...so you have to figure that Hue knows his abilities. He's promoted him above Kessler.....so there is that. That FPMA is a classic line. While true it also means he was throwing to FPMA so I take some comfort in seeing he was the reason our FPMA played better than their FPMA. As much as I liked Kizer's long ball off a 5-7 step drop - those are all timing throws to an area where he wasn't asked to read or think (expediting the release). He either threw to the post or pylon. On the short to mid-range stuff, he's taking way too long to get rid of the ball or leave the pocket. That leads me to believe the processing of info is where he is not ready. Hogan looked way better and more comfortable with that last week except for the INT he threw. I'm not sold Kizer WON the job or outperformed Hogan on a daily basis. He had 2 gorgeous deep throws to 2 different WRs (1 guy didn't make the team and the other plays as often as our water boys). Kizer has the same bionic arm Derek Anderson has so the Ravens watched enough film to keep him just as uncomfortable as teams began to keep Derek Anderson when he played himself out of starting lineups here and in Arizona. IMO, what makes a QB is the ability to process the information in front of him at the speed of the game with accurate throws. If Kizer starts and plays well - I'm okay with keeping him in. But if he starts off shakey again this week, what's wrong with making a 21 year old rookie that should only be a junior at Notre Dame watch most of his 3rd NFL game from the sidelines? It's not like Kizer is a 1st round pick so what makes him special enough to white flag winnable games? Tom Brady didn't start 1 game as a rookie while Jared Goff also watched a bunch of games from the sidelines as a rookie. Again, even Kosar didn't start until about week 5 or 7 of his rookie year. I feel like we can ruin Kizer's career a lot like the Rams could have ruined Goff's career by playing him before he's ready. Why???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Mellon Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 Colin Kaepernick is still . . . . . That new kid Kizer will probably be good or even great some day but why not win some games this season? We already been through the Tim Ouch syndrome. Do we really need to go through that again? CLE already had it's love fest with the police and army at their opening day ass-kissing event, so nobody will ever question that the Browns maybe don't love apple pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 23 hours ago, Flugel said: Kevin Hogan's former Pac 12 rival (Jared Goff) reminds us it takes longer than 2 games for a young QB to emerge on a rebuilding team. The Rams prolly used Case Keenum more to prevent the ruin of Goff than any intended long term plan for Keenum. Last week, Kevin Hogan looked like he could be up to the task of giving us something far better than Case Keenum offers anyone. Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it. He is 6'3" and came out of pro style offense in comparison to a soph QB deciding to depart from Notre Dame's Chaotic sandlot spread. It's not that I don't want to give Kizer a chance; but some of these sacks he's taking in the pocket holding on to the ball forever has me feeling like he's not ready yet. About half of our 7 sacks vrs Pitt were from holding onto the ball way too long. Is it possible Kizer just had a bad game? Absolutely! That said, I'd like to think if Kevin Hogan offered us something better than body by Migraine headache - we keep him in on a day Kizer was producing more turnovers than the local bakery. I'm not a hater - I'm just seeing why Kizer's college coach said "he's not ready" more than I was willing to during the preseason. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. If Kosar wasn't ready to start until somewhere between week 5 and 7 as a rookie - what makes Kizer ready? The timing patterned deep ball to an area instead of reading progressions against preseason opponents that didn't game plan or film study him? I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. I've been wrong before though. Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 2 hours ago, wargograw said: Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense. Hogan. Flugels is talking about HOGAN coming from a pro-style offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 2 hours ago, wargograw said: Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense. Looks like Cal and I posted at the same time. Thanks Cal! Yeah, Hogan is the one who came out of a pro style offense at Stanford especially when we understand his Head Coach there was previously an NFL assistant on the Philadelphia Eagles, QB Coach for the Oakland Raiders and QB Coach and later WR Coach with the Baltimore Ravens staff before joining Jim Harbaugh (who said he used much of Lindy Infante's QB friendly read system) at Stanford. David Shaw likes a 3 TE wrinkle that he has effectively implemented there in addition to other stuff he uses from his pro experience. In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan. Since we know Kizer is starting, let's hope he has a good game. If not, I don't want our entire team feeling like they're sentenced to a pitcher that can't find the strike zone all day. IMO, that will ruin the kid who just turned 21. And why do that if Hogan can give us more or at least the spark that jumper cables the rest of the team today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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