Harry Buffalo Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 To be fair, our WR's are not doing him any favors. Britt is averaging like 2-3 drops a game and this week his drop got intercepted. Our other guys either can't get open, or they are the 2nd and 3rd reads that Kizer is not yet accustomed to getting to. When your #1 WR is a guy who only gets open 25% of the time he runs a route, and drops 50% of the balls thrown to him, your QB is going to look like Sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hempman Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 That wasn't a drop, that was a crappy pass that was picked off a deflection. Watch any other team and you see the same Sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 more than willing to agree that there is blame to go around....terrible receivers, bad passes and poorly conceived offense.....all combine to create.....this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Blame the fans too. Its a mess who else can we blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Mudfly said: He was not good....thats for sure....terrible accuracy(still)(again)....are there any NFL QB's that keep their job when they complete passes at a 45% clip??? Honestly is getting worse each week......he just isnt ready and hasnt developed the tools to overcome it..... Still going to disagree, Mud. He's seeing where to go better, but that is now exposing an inability to make the throw it takes to get there. 2 hours ago, Hempman said: That wasn't a drop, that was a crappy pass that was picked off a deflection. Watch any other team and you see the same Sheet. That was last week... this week as ugly as the pass was... kind of a knuckle-fastball... it was square in Britt's hands and in the proper place. Last week gum commented on the possibility that Kizer is gripping the ball too tightly. I think this throw is the first clear "Exhibit A". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Hogan has a 'better grip' on the offense. Is that what your saying? Hogan does have bigger hands than Kizer... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Mudfly said: He was not good....thats for sure....terrible accuracy(still)(again)....are there any NFL QB's that keep their job when they complete passes at a 45% clip??? Honestly is getting worse each week......he just isnt ready and hasnt developed the tools to overcome it..... 48 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Still going to disagree, Mud. He's seeing where to go better, but that is now exposing an inability to make the throw it takes to get there. So I say "terrible accuracy" and you say "an inability to make the throw".....dont see a difference tour..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hempman Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Hogan does have some huge hands. Bet the ladies love that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 59 minutes ago, Mudfly said: So I say "terrible accuracy" and you say "an inability to make the throw".....dont see a difference tour..... Difference is you said he's "getting worse". I don't see that. I see a different issue emerging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Difference is you said he's "getting worse". I don't see that. I see a different issue emerging. The main issue is that....right now.....he stinks.... I cant think of a single team that has stuck with such poor QB play across the board......... His stellar 6 yds per pass dropped to 3 ypp today........QB rating dropped from a dismal 50 down to 43.......3rd consecutive game below 50% completions.....3rd consecutive game with more Ints than TDs.....etc etc etc..... He isnt getting better, thats for sure......and he has a mountain to climb just to get to so so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Treading water... barely... that is the net result to be sure. But he's not in the same place... the reason now looks different to me. #babysteps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 As angry and utterly furious as I am now (watching Watson didn't help btw), I find myself wondering what Kizer would look like with legitimate weapons. Jesus, substitute Hilton for Britt and what would the difference be? How can we fully evaluate the kid when we can't surround him with anything? Hardly seems fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Treading water... barely... that is the net result to be sure. But he's not in the same place... the reason now looks different to me. #babysteps Obviously, Im in an extra bad mood today(thanks Browns)......cause, even though this is about what I expect and Ive been bitching about this stuff all along, I wish they would prove me wrong and actually play well.....but it aint happening.... In re to babysteps.....screw that.....this team needs to take several large steps just to be average.....then, maybe, baby steps to climb into the competitive tier......playoffs?......thats a 10 years worth of babysteps from where we are sitting.... In a nut shell, this team got a LOT worse when this FO took over(the plan) and they have not shown any signs of improvement on the field since.....at this rate of improvement, we are only 20 years out....#patience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 10 minutes ago, Mudfly said: Obviously, Im in an extra bad mood today(thanks Browns)......cause, even though this is about what I expect and Ive been bitching about this stuff all along, I wish they would prove me wrong and actually play well.....but it aint happening.... In re to babysteps.....screw that.....this team needs to take several large steps just to be average.....then, maybe, baby steps to climb into the competitive tier......playoffs?......thats a 10 years worth of babysteps from where we are sitting.... In a nut shell, this team got a LOT worse when this FO took over(the plan) and they have not shown any signs of improvement on the field since.....at this rate of improvement, we are only 20 years out....#patience? I hope not 20 years..... maybe we need somebody from cleveland to own the browns. Somebody who feels like us. Somebody who isn't a crook that's been spoonfed his whole life. why can't bernie kosar GM the browns. Surely he couldn't do worse than we've been lately. Just because you can do math doesn't mean you can predict heart. Somewhere, Mike Pettine is drinking, hunting, and sighing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 It's to the point where I'm mashing the panic button. We literally can't score points, and we can't stop people from scoring. What really hurts is we almost NEVER force FG's! I think we've given up 10 tds out of 12 effing trips. That's almost impossible. How many tds have we given up on 3rd and goal? Jesus it's pathetic. I said last week that we very well wouldn't score 28 points again in a game the rest of the year. I meant it. I watched Watson score 5 tds and I thought to myself, "I literally can't fathom that crap storm of a team (Browns) scoring 5 tds in one game." I mean, it's just not possible. How would we move across the field and sustain drives? Punch it in? Not turn it over or go backwards for FIVE drives? Give me a break. After that high snap after our first 1st down, I knew it was over. So did everyone else. Our big chance was last week. We obviously blew it. We actually scored 28 points...in a game. In a single game we had FOUR touchdowns...and we lost it because we can't stop anyone in the red zone. That was the big chance...the one that got away. Please do not talk yourself into thinking a win is on the horizon. It's not happening with this squad. Not without some major miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I am a little perplexed by the plan, to say the least. Either install a gameplan that you think will win you the game or install a gameplan that is safe and protects your rookie QB and aids in his progression. Right now, we don’t seem to be doing either. Part of it is no doubt directly related to the fact that our WR corps inspires absolutely zero hope...but I’m still scratching my head right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hempman Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Hue had man love for Kizer. We are lucky he didn't pick him late in the 1st. It shows guys. The FO doesn't like Kizer and that also shows. This has been the story of the Browns for 18 years now. Infighting, more infighting and total infighting. Funny as it is, the Holmgren era may have been the era most closely unified when Pattie came aboard, but the coach/gm combo were just sorta meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hempman said: Hue had man love for Kizer. We are lucky he didn't pick him late in the 1st. It shows guys. The FO doesn't like Kizer and that also shows. This has been the story of the Browns for 18 years now. Infighting, more infighting and total infighting. Funny as it is, the Holmgren era may have been the era most closely unified when Pattie came aboard, but the coach/gm combo were just sorta meh. Except there’s really no infighting. Stop reading La Canfora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hempman Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Nah, there is infighting. I have not read any of that guys Sheet. Your in denial. Hue is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 9 hours ago, Mudfly said: The main issue is that....right now.....he stinks.... I cant think of a single team that has stuck with such poor QB play across the board......... His stellar 6 yds per pass dropped to 3 ypp today........QB rating dropped from a dismal 50 down to 43.......3rd consecutive game below 50% completions.....3rd consecutive game with more Ints than TDs.....etc etc etc..... He isnt getting better, thats for sure......and he has a mountain to climb just to get to so so... I'd love to disagree with you here, but I really can't. Even with a day to digest the nearly indegestionable, it's difficult to find any bright spots. What really hurts is that drop-pick by Britt because it takes away from Kizer's only good drive and prevented him from getting any red zone opportunities. As silly as it sounds, Kizer punching it in for a touchdown would've been important for confidence, and even a FG there helps to build SOME momentum. Kizer missed a lot of throws today, and the one that really sticks out to me is when he had Higgins wide open on the opposite side for about 20 yards. Higgins almost made the spectacular diving catch, but it's the Browns, so spectacular and catch generally don't go together. It was just painful because even the announcers were saying that this was Kizer's problem in college, and it's followed him to the pros. Higgins had about 10 feet of separation btw. Now here's what I'm trying to remember Mud...I said the Bengals stellar front 7 would give Kizer fits. I'm obviously not the only one who said that. When you look at what the Bengals' defense has done to more experienced qb's (other than Watson), you realize that everyone has struggled to some degree. Kizer was always going to struggle in a game like this... Here's the biggest problem with the game, and it has nothing to do with Kizer. Our defense has given up 10 touchdowns in 12 red zone possessions. That's the reason we lost the Indy game, and it's also the reason we lost the Steelers game if you ask me. Something else that was just embarrassing was the performance of Gregg Williams. He called an ATROCIOUS game. That all out blitz before the half which resulted in a 60 yard touchdown was simply bush league. And when we gave up the 3rd and 15 to a wide open TE with our safeties 30 yards back? Why? I understand deep safeties SOME time, but why take them out of the play there? Damn you Gregg...we needed so much more. And HOW MANY TIMES do we have to give up down the seam HUGE plays to TE's? Jesus Peppers...DO SOMETHING. What we absolutely need, and what we're most likely not going to get, is a premier WR threat. Somebody who scares people. Somebody who makes not only routine receptions, but also the extraordinary ones when your team needs them. Somebody who can get open for your QB, break a tackle, and actually make some darn plays. I hate to even MENTION his name, but the only way we're getting someone like this any time soon is the Josh Gordon SNAFU. We could literally get an all star receiver this month, or it could be never like many think and who are most likely correct. The more glaring issue is that Kizer isn't consistently accurate, and I don't know if that's something a player can correct. The balls are low, they're outside, they're behind, and it's not getting better. We can't sustain drives because of this, and we can't run the ball because nobody is scared of the passing game. We don't try enough seam passes to Njoku, or anything down the field to him for that matter. Heck, the one deep TD caught by Njoku (a terrific play btw) was thrown by freaking Hogan. When is the last time we threw a pass down the field to our fast TE? Can we use HIM as sort of a WR who can get open? Can we line him up in the slot or something? Maybe line him up on the outside? Is there ANYTHING we can do? Probably not. We have to be careful now with Kizer. It's obvious we don't have the talent to help him. All this crap about playing defense and running the ball is just another fantasy. Giving up 90% touchdowns to opposing teams in red zone possessions is actually the worst I've ever seen. I'm too lazy to look it up, but try to find a worse start to the year. From 99 and on, try and find a worse start. I'm worried the team is going to quit because we're trying to get a rookie QB experience, when we could possibly be more competitive with another QB option. Veterans want to win, and they don't want to be embarrassed. We need something to go right this week, even if we don't win. We just can't have another week like this guys. I once declared Kizer our future QB, and it was the first time I've ever said that. I hate to take it back after one miserable game, but man...it was not a good time yesterday, and I really can't find positives to discuss. Kizer looked confused, panicked, and defeated. It's up to Hue Jackson, Gregg Williams, and our front office to do something NOW. We simply CANNOT keep going like this if we are to have any hope for Kizer's future. We need a new WR, a better defensive approach, and probably Sunny Jesus in an orange helmet to turn this crap around. We got the Jets next, and I don't care if they're 2-2. Let's kick the crap out of them and get SOMETHING going right this year. Cmon Myles Garrett, Jamie Collins, and Danny Shelton...we're talking to YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I don't think Kizer has looked good so far theis season. Be it limited play, Hogan is who I would like to see. At least we move chains and score some points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Jiggins, it’s hilarious that you actually think Watson would be some superstar right now had we drafted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 20 hours ago, LBC mike said: Blame the fans too. Its a mess who else can we blame? LOL, you can't blame the fans- they all left by the start of the 4th quarter- except the Bengal fans.... 17 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Difference is you said he's "getting worse". I don't see that. I see a different issue emerging. Like what little confidence he had is shot? Think he realizes he's in over his head? For sure knows he's playing like garbage. I'll take the time to watch more of DK's presser, the first couple minutes were telling. I'll agree with Mud, if Hue trots him out against the Jets with the kind of stats he's sporting, I'm gonna scream. 15 hours ago, jiggins7919 said: It's to the point where I'm mashing the panic button. We literally can't score points, and we can't stop people from scoring. What really hurts is we almost NEVER force FG's! I think we've given up 10 tds out of 12 effing trips. That's almost impossible. How many tds have we given up on 3rd and goal? Jesus it's pathetic. I said last week that we very well wouldn't score 28 points again in a game the rest of the year. I meant it. I watched Watson score 5 tds and I thought to myself, "I literally can't fathom that crap storm of a team (Browns) scoring 5 tds in one game." I mean, it's just not possible. How would we move across the field and sustain drives? Punch it in? Not turn it over or go backwards for FIVE drives? Give me a break. After that high snap after our first 1st down, I knew it was over. So did everyone else. Our big chance was last week. We obviously blew it. We actually scored 28 points...in a game. In a single game we had FOUR touchdowns...and we lost it because we can't stop anyone in the red zone. That was the big chance...the one that got away. Please do not talk yourself into thinking a win is on the horizon. It's not happening with this squad. Not without some major miracle. That was a complete team meltdown in every phase of the game. Offense, defense, ST. Can't even kick a lousy FG to put us ahead for the first time this year. I thought the Browns couldn't possibly top some of the stinkers I went to last year- but I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 20 hours ago, jiggins7919 said: As angry and utterly furious as I am now (watching Watson didn't help btw), I find myself wondering what Kizer would look like with legitimate weapons. Jesus, substitute Hilton for Britt and what would the difference be? How can we fully evaluate the kid when we can't surround him with anything? Hardly seems fair. His decisions can be evaluated. Their speed... their correctness. Drops... WR misreads... WR route correctness can all be evaluated. Process is no different with better receivers... better receivers simply make it easier. 20 hours ago, Mudfly said: Obviously, Im in an extra bad mood today(thanks Browns)......cause, even though this is about what I expect and Ive been bitching about this stuff all along, I wish they would prove me wrong and actually play well.....but it aint happening.... In re to babysteps.....screw that.....this team needs to take several large steps just to be average.....then, maybe, baby steps to climb into the competitive tier......playoffs?......thats a 10 years worth of babysteps from where we are sitting.... In a nut shell, this team got a LOT worse when this FO took over(the plan) and they have not shown any signs of improvement on the field since.....at this rate of improvement, we are only 20 years out....#patience? As your designated ledge-talker... as in you off it... let me talk you down or give you a push... First, babysteps is strictly a Kizer comment. Not that we're making giant strides anywhere else. Second, where are we LOTS worse since 2015? Really? On O... QB? Did I miss a franchise guy on our roster? RB? At WR I'll give you Benji and Gabe, and throw in the rest of the WR corp as well. OL? Mack? His departure was not this FO's choice was it? RT? Shon is as good now as Mitch was Year 3. Zeitler > Greco. Everywhere else we are the same. On D... our DL is better... our LB set is better (unless you suddenly are longing for Kruger)... our 2ndary? Weaker at FS to be sure, but post-injury Gip' was an unknown. Let's see you make a case at any other DB slot for your iconic 2015 roster. Climb down or jump... your choice. 19 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said: I am a little perplexed by the plan, to say the least. Best I can offer, and it ain't much, is that Hue is attempting to mold a raw QB with tools to his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 18 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Best I can offer, and it ain't much, is that Hue is attempting to mold a raw QB with tools to his game. via Rotoworld Browns coach Hue Jackson insists he still has "total confidence" in rookie QB DeShone Kizer. "He's truly gotten better over the last four weeks," Jackson said with a straight face Monday. "We have to support him every way we can." Jackson claimed Sunday, where Kizer completed 16-of-34 passes for 118 scoreless yards before being benched, was Kizer's best start of the season. Through four games, Kizer has been woefully inaccurate and seemed to lack an internal clock. It could get worse before it gets better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Tour2ma said: His decisions can be evaluated. Their speed... their correctness. Drops... WR misreads... WR route correctness can all be evaluated. Process is no different with better receivers... better receivers simply make it easier. As your designated ledge-talker... as in you off it... let me talk you down or give you a push... First, babysteps is strictly a Kizer comment. Not that we're making giant strides anywhere else. Second, where are we LOTS worse since 2015? Really? On O... QB? Did I miss a franchise guy on our roster? RB? At WR I'll give you Benji and Gabe, and throw in the rest of the WR corp as well. OL? Mack? His departure was not this FO's choice was it? RT? Shon is as good now as Mitch was Year 3. Zeitler > Greco. Everywhere else we are the same. On D... our DL is better... our LB set is better (unless you suddenly are longing for Kruger)... our 2ndary? Weaker at FS to be sure, but post-injury Gip' was an unknown. Let's see you make a case at any other DB slot for your iconic 2015 roster. Climb down or jump... your choice. Best I can offer, and it ain't much, is that Hue is attempting to mold a raw QB with tools to his game. I would agree this far.....when I look at position groups, I see several that appear to be improved......a couple that are worse.....and a wash or 2...... So.....lets assume this is a better roster and, overall, better team......yet, we lose every single game.....sooooo??? I see 2 glaring problems......1)Obviously this coach cant win....even with an improved roster......and 2) while we might have some better "starters", we have eliminated all our depth.....and, yes, the 2015 team had veterans and some depth at the second level, while this team has neither,,,,,and ALL of our second level players are UDFA quality.....and we ALL know that injuries will happen, so this FO's failure to keep depth is on them 100%.....they have cut a million guys who were probably good enough to start over many of our current starters....and CERTAINLY were better than the second level guys.... So....better roster.....poor planning FO.....and terrible coaching are where we seem to be.....(Pettine won 7 with a worse roster)... Heck.....at this point....we haven;t even lead for one second in any game....not once....Kenny Britt is rated dead last in the league, but he's the most targeted player on our team(Thats on Hue).......we have 2 RB's who the coach cant figure out to use......If its ZBS and Crowe cant run in a ZBS, then why is hue using it?..... The stupid I see has overwhelmed me......you cant talk me down.....Im jumping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 53 minutes ago, Mudfly said: The stupid I see has overwhelmed me......you cant talk me down.....Im jumping! Don't do it Mud-you'll be on one of these for sure-very Brownsian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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