Kizer

[wargograw]

Gotcha

[Flugel]

36 minutes ago, wargograw said:

Gotcha

No worries War.  Hopefully the post will make more sense to you now.

[Tour2ma]

52 minutes ago, Flugel said:

In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan.

I'd say "teach the pro-style basics"... But in any case I do not think that explains the apparent edge Hogan has in reading a D. I continue to believe that's a case of "have to" for less physically gifted QBs, which Hogan clearly is compared to Kizer.

Always seems like most of the gifted QBs I can name who also understand the position are sons of either Coaches or QBs... Elway and Luck are examples.

Many of the nearly gifted had Dads in the game as well... Rivers, the Mannings, Brees had an uncle who started for the Longhorns... so not much help there...

[Dutch Oven]

17 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I'd say "teach the pro-style basics"... But in any case I do not think that explains the apparent edge Hogan has in reading a D. I continue to believe that's a case of "have to" for less physically gifted QBs, which Hogan clearly is compared to Kizer.

Always seems like most of the gifted QBs I can name who also understand the position are sons of either Coaches or QBs... Elway and Luck are examples.

Many of the nearly gifted had Dads in the game as well... Rivers, the Mannings, Brees had an uncle who started for the Longhorns... so not much help there...

How dare you imply that Hogan is anything but a physical specimen.

PoG saw Hogan throw that football over that mountain.

The Browns would've definitely won state if Hue had put Hogan in. Hogan might have found his soul mate as a result.

[BaconHound]

It's official, he stinks

[Tour2ma]

3 hours ago, BaconHound said:

It's official, he stinks

Still early BH, but no... today he was not good.

Posted in chat that he might be "overthrowing the ball"... not in the usual QB sense,, but in the MLB pitcher sense. Too hard yielding "wild".

gumby answered "over gripping"... could be an issue as well. Squeeze a golf club to death and forearm muscles tighten that you do not want tight. PLus as the immortal "Crash" Davis told Nuke, "Don't grip it so tight... it's an egg."

Could be one or both....

 

On a positive note... the kid did survey the field better. Still too slow and still are issues picking up the location of a throw to a non primary, but he looked.

#BabySteps...

[BaconHound]

2 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Still early BH, but no... today he was not good.

Posted in chat that he might be "overthrowing the ball"... not in the usual QB sense,, but in the MLB pitcher sense. Too hard yielding "wild".

gumby answered "over gripping"... could be an issue as well. Squeeze a golf club to death and forearm muscles tighten that you do not want tight. PLus as the immortal "Crash" Davis told Nuke, "Don't grip it so tight... it's an egg."

Could be one or both....

In college he was inaccurate and had trouble making the proper read, typically these things don’t improve in the NFL but QB gurus think they can mold players.  

[jrb12711]

I couldn't imagine what it would be like playing the position when your guys drop 8 footballs. To put the ball in the bread basket just to have the ball dropped is a joke. On top of that, 4 offensive PI calls (two of which would have resulted in 1st downs) and what the fuck do you expect.

Kizer made some bad throws, I'm not gonna defend those. But 8 drops? who the fuck is supposed to excel with EIGHT drops?

[BaconHound]

At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats.  I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided.  Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws. The defense let the touchdown less Colts throw it all over them.

There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level

[jrb12711]

4 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats.  I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided.  Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws. The defense let the touchdown less Colts throw it all over them.

There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level

It's clear where I'm going with this, but imagine this stat line

QB- 30 of 47, 2 TDS/3 ints (one being on a hail mary)

If that was the stat line of Aaron Rodgers, would you think wow, that dude lost us the game?

[BaconHound]

Just now, jrb12711 said:

It's clear where I'm going with this, but imagine this stat line

QB- 30 of 47, 2 TDS/3 ints (one being on a hail mary)

If that was the stat line of Aaron Rodgers, would you think wow, that dude lost us the game?

Stats are meaningless in these games.  Remember the Jordan Cameron Gary Barnidge days.  The question that I ask is watching Kizer in the first half, when the game is being formed, did he look like an NFL QB?  I don’t think so.  Racking up stats when the defense is running out the clock doesn’t do much for me.

[Dutch Oven]

9 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

Stats are meaningless in these games.  Remember the Jordan Cameron Gary Barnidge days.  The question that I ask is watching Kizer in the first half, when the game is being formed, did he look like an NFL QB?  I don’t think so.  Racking up stats when the defense is running out the clock doesn’t do much for me.

You know what Aaron Rodgers was doing in his 3rd NFL game? Picking splinters out of his backside. It's something to consider.

[wargograw]

26 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

I couldn't imagine what it would be like playing the position when your guys drop 8 footballs. To put the ball in the bread basket just to have the ball dropped is a joke. On top of that, 4 offensive PI calls (two of which would have resulted in 1st downs) and what the fuck do you expect.

Kizer made some bad throws, I'm not gonna defend those. But 8 drops? who the fuck is supposed to excel with EIGHT drops?

Agreed

[BaconHound]

Just now, Dutch Oven said:

You know what Aaron Rodgers was doing in his 3rd NFL game? Picking splinters out of his backside. It's something to consider.

Can we agree that the 2017-18 Browns are not the 2007 Packers

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

26 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats.  I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided.  Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws. The defense let the touchdown less Colts throw it all over them.

There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level

Are you evaluating his performance in half the game to suit your narrative or are you doing it because you are stupid?

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, BaconHound said:

Can we agree that the 2017-18 Browns are not the 2007 Packers

Without a doubt.

A very young, raw QB in my humble opinion was rushed into the starting job before he should have on a team with questionable talent surrounding him, especially at WR. I'm not going to write the kid off already, considering all the circumstances. (I also have been on record before the season that I don't think Kizer being on the roster will stop the Browns from strongly considering taking a QB with their first pick next draft)

[BaconHound]

1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

Without a doubt.

A very young, raw QB in my humble opinion was rushed into the starting job before he should have on a team with questionable talent surrounding him, especially at WR. I'm not going to write the kid off already, considering all the circumstances. (I also have been on record before the season that I don't think Kizer being on the roster will stop the Browns from strongly considering taking a QB with their first pick next draft)

Absolutely rushed in and as a positive strong arm and good mobility.  The O Line has been pretty solid this year and defenses have been loading up against the run.  The defense and O Line are setting Kizer up to be successful.  I will say our defense shitting the bed and horrible penalties have put him in some bad spots this year

[Dutch Oven]

8 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

Absolutely rushed in and as a positive strong arm and good mobility.  The O Line has been pretty solid this year and defenses have been loading up against the run.  The defense and O Line are setting Kizer up to be successful.  I will say our defense shitting the bed and horrible penalties have put him in some bad spots this year

And I know it's hard to believe, but it's still early. We are three games in.

Now if this team looks just as bad halfway through the season, well Hue is in big trouble. But things still can improve.

[BaconHound]

1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

And I know it's hard to believe, but it's still early. We are three games in.

Now if this team looks just as bad halfway through the season, well Hue is in big trouble. But things still can improve.

It seems like this is our mantra until “wait til the draft@

[Tour2ma]

One comment on the drops... of the 8 mentioned some were pure, 100% on the receivers... Devalve late and Britt early spring to mind. But some throws asked a lot of even very good receivers. Yes, they got their hands on a couple that were behind them, but that phrase includes the phrase "they were behind them." A QB needs to make throws that give his guys the best chance. Kizer's not there yet and that's what prompted the speculation as to the cause(s) of his inaccuracy.

On the other hand what was the count on catches made on bad balls. One springs to mind... Williams' ridiculous one-hander deep in Colt territory. You'll be seeing that one tonite on SC.

 

I guess that might have been two comments...

[Mudfly]

5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

 

On the other hand what was the count on catches made on bad balls. One springs to mind... Williams' ridiculous one-hander deep in Colt territory. You'll be seeing that one tonite on SC.

 

That was Leslie.....the guy we just reactivated and, apparently, can catch against 1st stringers too....(wink wink)

[CaineDeSoulis]

Hey! at this pace it should only take 4 more games to match our interception total from last year!!

I really cant help but think using cody and really focusing on the short passing game and not asking him to throw the ball deep 15+ times a game is the way to go....

If we actually wanted to win games that is...

[hoorta]

12 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Thanks Mr Obvious letting us know that Ben will be in the NFL HOF and that the Steelers have been a model NFL franchise going back to dumb as a bag of rocks Terry Bradshaw.

Yeah, sore rectal cavity, I meant 1 Super Bowl under clueless Tomlin. Brady owns that blowhard franchise.  So, quit bragging about Pittsburgh being so great and stick to eating chicken wings and guzzling beer.

Didn't those mighty Squealers lose to the lowly Bears? 

9 hours ago, Flugel said:

Looks like Cal and I posted at the same time. Thanks Cal!   

Yeah, Hogan is the one who came out of a pro style offense at Stanford especially when we understand his Head Coach there was previously an NFL assistant on the Philadelphia Eagles, QB Coach for the Oakland Raiders and QB Coach and later WR Coach with the Baltimore Ravens staff before joining Jim Harbaugh (who said he used much of Lindy Infante's QB friendly read system) at Stanford.  David Shaw likes a 3 TE wrinkle that he has effectively implemented there in addition to other stuff he uses from his pro experience.

In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan. Since we know Kizer is starting, let's hope he has a good game.   If not, I don't want our entire team feeling like they're sentenced to a pitcher that can't find the strike zone all day.  IMO, that will ruin the kid who just turned 21.  And why do that if Hogan can give us more or at least the spark that jumper cables the rest of the team today? 

He is what I thought he was....   

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Still early BH, but no... today he was not good.

Posted in chat that he might be "overthrowing the ball"... not in the usual QB sense,, but in the MLB pitcher sense. Too hard yielding "wild".

gumby answered "over gripping"... could be an issue as well. Squeeze a golf club to death and forearm muscles tighten that you do not want tight. PLus as the immortal "Crash" Davis told Nuke, "Don't grip it so tight... it's an egg."

Could be one or both....

On a positive note... the kid did survey the field better. Still too slow and still are issues picking up the location of a throw to a non primary, but he looked.

#BabySteps...

Sorry Tour- he pretty much sucked....   

3 hours ago, BaconHound said:

In college he was inaccurate and had trouble making the proper read, typically these things don’t improve in the NFL but QB gurus think they can mold players.  

^^^^ Preaching to the Choir here BH.  

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

One comment on the drops... of the 8 mentioned some were pure, 100% on the receivers... Devalve late and Britt early spring to mind. But some throws asked a lot of even very good receivers. Yes, they got their hands on a couple that were behind them, but that phrase includes the phrase "they were behind them." A QB needs to make throws that give his guys the best chance. Kizer's not there yet and that's what prompted the speculation as to the cause(s) of his inaccuracy.

On the other hand what was the count on catches made on bad balls. One springs to mind... Williams' ridiculous one-hander deep in Colt territory. You'll be seeing that one tonite on SC.

I guess that might have been two comments...

One circus catch does not equal 10 errant ducks Tour. That one wasn't particularly a good pass. Like a bunch not remotely catchable. He had several guys open on patterns that he missed badly on. Right now, Kizer has a slight edge on the Infamous Akilli "Worm Burner" Smith of Bungle disrepute. 

[CaineDeSoulis]

Of starting qbs Kiser leads the league in the following

Passes intercepted 7

Lowest qb rating 53

Lowest completion percentage 53

 

 

[hoorta]

26 minutes ago, CaineDeSoulis said:

Of starting qbs Kiser leads the league in the following

Passes intercepted 7

Lowest qb rating 53

Lowest completion percentage 53

But he's a rookie, he can improve.. I hope so- or this is going to be another lost season, real quick. 

[Tour2ma]

5 hours ago, hoorta said:

Sorry Tour- he pretty much sucked....  

Awesome analysis, h....

[gumby73]

14 hours ago, BaconHound said:

At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats.  I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided.  Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws. 

There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level

Duke Johnson has been balling his ass-off all 3 games with limited looks.. even with off the mark 7 yard. passes..

11 hours ago, Mudfly said:

That was Leslie.....the guy we just reactivated and, apparently, can catch against 1st stringers too....(wink wink)

Tagged Tavern name *Jordan Tyree*  ..A hell of a catch in traffic..Leslie has been doing this since BYU..imo, it's time for old Al Saunders to take a seat in the hot seat..Any QB will need WR's to grow with...a whole camp & 3 games later were screwed (Leslie & Kasen Williams need more game-time Reps)   

[Westside Steve]

38 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Duke Johnson has been balling his ass-off all 3 games with limited looks.. even with off the mark 7 yard. passes..

Tagged Tavern name *Jordan Tyree*  ..A hell of a catch in traffic..Leslie has been doing this since BYU..imo, it's time for old Al Saunders to take a seat in the hot seat..Any QB will need WR's to grow with...a whole camp & 3 games later were screwed (Leslie & Kasen Williams need more game-time Reps)   

They certainly will. And young talent with a good work ethic is good and to grow with a Young quarterback. He gets to familiar with his guys and they start to get better together. Not short-term overpaid bums tossed on the scrap heap by their old team.

I will probably keep making excuses for him, (eight dropped passes Etc) for five more games.

WSS

 

[Tour2ma]

Eight game limit seems reasonable.

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Eight game limit seems reasonable.

Coming off 1-15, after a 3-18 finish from the previous regime, 8 consecutive forfeits is asking a lot of this fan base.  It's not like Kizer is the 1st or 2nd pick overall.  He's a 2nd round QB that threw 2 nice deep balls in the preseason.  I'd rather have the 21 year old watch Hogan from the sidelines real soon.