***Official Browns Vs. Steelers Game Day Thread***

[The Gipper]

19 hours ago, PoeticG said:

Antonio Brown had 180 receiving yards PLUS a holding call for another 20+ yards, that's 200 yards for their number 1 WR. Yeah, clearly Haden wasn't needed. At one point in the game AB had 11 targets / 11 catches. Pretty eye opening. 

With Joe H. out there Brown may have had 300 receiving yards. 

[The Gipper]

14 hours ago, Vagitron said:

You arent allowed to touch the qb unless the qb is attempting to make the tackle. He should have been flagged for "pushing" him down and ben didnt do anything dirty grabbing his damn leg. He looked ridiculous. Dirty tho? Gtfo

That is not true at all.  You just wish that were  a rule.  But no...BR wasn't "dirty" by grabbing that leg.   And he did look ridiculous. He just looked like Jeff Van Gundy:

 

[The Gipper]

The CLE – O line played well as virtually all of the sacks appeared to be coverage sacks.  Joe Haden had one of the sacks on that corner blitz and helped cause all of the others with his decent but not great coverage.

They were not "Coverage sacks".   They were "rookie QB in his first game having trouble finding open receivers and not knowing when to throw the ball away or not knowing how to do a checkdown" sacks.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, boo fagley said:

Sack # 5 Kizer was out of the pocket. Sacks 1 - 2 there was time to dump the ball at the WRs feet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_ObBF7HMAE&feature=player_embedded

Bunch of those sacks were coverage sacks. One of them there was nothing any qb could have done to avoid it. I think Deshone was told to eat the ball rather than risk an int. 

[bjh2130]

19 hours ago, Vagitron said:

The steelers have been strong against the run for a decade or better. It has little to do with the offense and no i dont believe he would have been able to catch it bump or not. The personal foul on gay was also a damn year later before flags were thrown. 

That was awfully late on that flag but it was a penalty. On one replay the official appeared to be grabbing for his flag immediately but they always cut away before I could see if it got stuck or if he decided against or what the deal was. It was the right call albeit very late and I can see why people would have issues with it.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Bunch of those sacks were coverage sacks. One of them there was nothing any qb could have done to avoid it. I think Deshone was told to eat the ball rather than risk an int. 

I deny that they were coverage sacks to any real extent.  There you are giving too much credit to the Steelers DBs...which I don't think they deserve. As I said, they were "rookie QB in his first game who hasn't learned to get rid of the ball or to use the checkdown" sacks.  While certainly SOME coverages may have been good....and experience QB, as I said, would learn to throw the ball away or checkdown.  Kizer is not there yet.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, bjh2130 said:

That was awfully late on that flag but it was a penalty. On one replay the official appeared to be grabbing for his flag immediately but they always cut away before I could see if it got stuck or if he decided against or what the deal was. It was the right call albeit very late and I can see why people would have issues with it.

Why would anyone have an issue with it?  It WAS an illegal helmet to helmet hit.  Plain and simple.  The only "issue" is why did they not toss the flag right away.  (Perhaps one ref was conferring with another who may have had a better view?)

[Mudfly]

Well, one thing that did not go unnoticed were 2 out of 3 of our top FA's stunk up the joint.....Britt completely stunk and Tretter got owned......hope they look better next week......(a LOT better).....

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, Mudfly said:

Well, one thing that did not go unnoticed were 2 out of 3 of our top FA's stunk up the joint.....Britt completely stunk and Tretter got owned......hope they look better next week......(a LOT better).....

I'm getting the same vibes with Britt that I had with Bowe.

[Mudfly]

12 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I'm getting the same vibes with Britt that I had with Bowe.

Yeah...Ive had those since the day we signed him.....

[TexasAg1969]

55 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I'm getting the same vibes with Britt that I had with Bowe.

Yep

[Tour2ma]

19 hours ago, hoorta said:

Bunch of those sacks were coverage sacks. One of them there was nothing any qb could have done to avoid it. I think Deshone was told to eat the ball rather than risk an int. 

Ding Ding Ding... but it's not like none of 3 or 4 or more receivers were all covered. Only the 1 or 2 at which a rookie QB looked.

[jiggins7919]

Let's be honest, that throw to Williams was pretty terrible, BUT like many have said, it could've been caught.  Williams' lack of awareness removed any chance at catching that ball, and if he keeps straight and in bounds, he definitely has a chance to plant his feet and swivel to the inside.  I watched the play a dozen times, and it was totally possible.  Was the throw awful?  Yeah, pretty much.  The safety took a terrible angle on the play, and if Kizer actually throws it correctly, Williams walks in for a crucial touchdown.  You remember "big plays", right?  Yeah, me neither.  Aside from Kizer's first preseason game, he hasn't completed a deep pass.  Let's be honest here, opportunities for big touchdown plays are EXTREMELY rare in the NFL.  Defenses are simply too good, and rarely let the ball get behind them.  Counting the preseason and the Orange and Brown scrimmage, how many times has Kizer missed HUGE throws down the field?  The wide open Njoku whiff in preseason?  How BADLY did Njoku need that opportunity for his confidence?  Hell, Kizer missed two deep tosses to Duke Johnson Sunday alone!  He missed Kasen Williams for a TD.  He threw a high pass to Seth Devalve, and yes it hit Seth in the hands, but because it was so high, the defender had all day to punch the ball out...which of course he did.  Kizer literally missed EVERY SINGLE deep throw in a one score game.  Think about that for a minute.  Oh, and Kizer apparently missed Ricardo Louis for an easy touchdown, but I didn't see the play.  The one I know for sure he missed an open receiver was on 3rd and goal on our last scoring drive.  Kizer ended up throwing it away, but he had a receiver flash open in the end zone for a split second, and he didn't see him at the bottom of the screen.  He separated from the defender, and Kizer could've easily thrown a laser to the inside of the field for a TD.  We ended up getting the TD on that incredible Coleman catch, but that's the difference between someone like Ben and any QB we've ever had.  Ben will complete that 3rd and goal almost every time, and basically completes 99.9% of the time against us.   

 

Any realistic Browns fan knew we couldn't patch EVERY single hole on our young team during the offseason.  It just wasn't going to be possible, and that's ok.  The difference in the entire game comes down to ONE player, and one position.  It wasn't Big Ben, it wasn't Leveon Bell, and it wasn't the terrific performance of rookie Watt.  The only difference in the effing game was the Steelers had a playmaking WR and we didn't.  My point was encapsulated on the Steelers' last drive, where Ben threw the ball up in the air to Antonio Brown on basically a "Hail Mary", and Brown made the catch in triple freaking coverage.  Who on our team is making that catch?  Oh yeah, nobody.  We can argue whether or not Brown actually made the catch, but that doesn't matter now.  They called it complete, and there wasn't enough to overturn it.  How many "normal passes" did Antonio Brown catch, and then turn into something special?  I'd say 80% of his yards came on YAC.  

 

You ever see our WR's get YAC?  No, no you don't.  They all catch the ball and fall down.  Now, not all of that is their fault, as Kizer NEVER throws it to people where they can run, but our guys seem content to catch the ball and go down.  The ONE throw over 2 yards that Kizer made where a WR could actually keep running, was the laser to Kenny Britt.  Britt could very well of cost us the game on that play, and Hue Jackson knows it.  It's the reason why Hue is talking about benching Britt today.  Britt didn't come down in bounds on that preseason Osweiler pass (in the end zone btw), he dropped that preseason slant against the Bucs in the damn red zone (on 3rd down btw), and here again he drops the most crucial play.  A play on 2nd and 19 where Kizer makes his BEST PASS OF THE DAMN DAY, and it would've continued our momentum.  Don't forget that drop came immediately after our defense's ONLY FREAKING TURNOVER.  The Steelers were about to salt the game away with a score, our defense gets us the ball back, and Britt crushes our chances right then and there on the worst drop I've seen in a long while.

 

I don't want to get TOO negative on Kizer, I really don't.  In many ways, I was extremely pleased with his play.  Now, his accuracy scares me.  On that one long-developing, play-action pass that Coleman caught over the middle, I was really irritated with that throw.  I know Kizer was knocked off balance, but he regained his stature, and he stepped up and fired an AWFUL pass to Coleman, who somehow bailed him out.  Coleman had 4 yards on Haden, and we all know Haden can't run like he used to.  Kizer hits Coleman in stride (remember "in stride"?  Me neither), and I don't know where Coleman stops.  He either gets to the Steeler's 15, or he makes a move and scores.  Go back and watch the highlights from the weekend.  How many touchdowns do you see where a guy catches the ball in stride, or catches the ball and makes a couple of moves and scores?  You see it ALL OF THE TIME, yet you will NEVER see it in a Browns' uniform.  

 

I know people are upset about our offensive line, and I get it.  Tretter had a tough time all game, and he gave up probably the only "true sack" of the day on a bull rush.  The other sacks, or most of them, were all on Kizer.  Kizer missed checkdown receivers several times, and had he just fired the ball quickly to them, we could've avoided several sacks.  Even if the pass nets 4 yards, it's still a huge gain compared to a sack.  Hell, how many times were you yelling for Kizer to just throw it out of bounds?!  Look, I know we couldn't run the ball, and that's extremely upsetting, but that wasn't ALL on the offensive line.  I went back and watched the game again, and there were AT LEAST four different times where Crowell simply ran the wrong effing direction.  I mean he had a GIANT HOLE on four runs, but instead he just put his head down and barreled into the teeth of the defense.  If Crow's vision lead him to the actual hole, he EASILY has 50 more yards.  I'm serious.  It could've been more...some of those holes were THAT huge.  Realistically, nobody hits the right hole "every time", but you'd like to see your RB choose the right one....AT LEAST ONCE.  

 

Guys, these are the differences in winning and losing in the NFL.  The margin is THAT small.  Completing that one open bomb, choosing that open running lane, making that easy catch on 2nd and 19 (Jesus I'm still pissed off), hitting that WR in stride, our 3rd string rookie RB not missing the punt block, or any of the other "almost had it" plays of the day.  Guys, that's literally the difference in many games during the NFL season.  The problem is, this same shit has HAUNTED us for the better part of 17 years.  As BAD as we were last year, how many games could we have won with just that "one play"?  That one FG, that one stupid pass play against the Steelers last year where Hawkins lost 9 yards at the goal line, that one fumble in the red zone by our rookie FB on his first career carry, that one dropped pass...WHATEVER.  We have been absolutely haunted by the simple fact that we DO NOT make enough plays, and here we are in week 1 of the 2017 season, and we had a very good chance of beating the division favorites, and we didn't make those big plays...AGAIN.  

 

I'm just about physically sick about Myles Garrett's injury.  I really am.  We had only 3 pressures on like 36 drop backs, and that's not going to get it done.  Yes, the Steelers were using the quick passing game, and yes, we actually were playing coverage, BUT SOMEONE has to make a play and get through the line.  SOMEONE has to win that matchup ONCE, right?  Shelton has to win on a bull rush, Ogbah has to power through a double team, Okunjobi needs to slice through, or anybody else on the team MUST win that damn match up.  I know Nassib got a sack, and that was nice, but it was kind of a coverage sack.  I'm not complaining, trust me, but SOMEBODY on our team HAS to knife through and wreak havoc a few times a game, and we didn't see that.  Am I proud of the defense?  You bet your ass I am.  What am I upset about?  I'm upset Jamar Taylor couldn't come down with that tipped interception.  I know it was a difficult play, but that's EXACTLY what I'm talking about.  I'm upset that we gave up two 3rd and goal touchdowns.  We stop them on JUST ONE of those, and the game is different.  I realize it's unfair for me to put anything on our defense because they played lights out, but truly great defenses force FG's, and they get off the field on 3rd down...especially 3rd down in the red zone.  

 

I wasn't going to mention this, but I will.  Aside from Myles Garrett, the one player we were missing (STILL missing btw) was none other than....Josh Gordon.  Listen, I don't expect to ever get him back, and it doesn't have to be specifically "Josh Gordon", but we're missing the "playmaking WR".  The guy that can turn the normal into spectacular.  The guy that can catch a 10 yard pass, make a move, and score.  We had essentially ZERO plays like that last year, and we'll probably have zero again.  In fairness, Crowell had that long run against the Ravens, but we still found a way to choke.  Who on our team can make a spectacular play?  Do you see anybody that can catch a pass and break free?  I sure don't.  And don't tell me Corey Coleman, because I've NEVER seen him break a tackle.  Ever.  Never ever.  Corey catches the ball and falls down, like everyone else.  As previously mentioned, usually it's because the pass is very high or too low, but even on the quality passes, Corey doesn't shake free and get YAC.  The only two guys that SOMETIMES break free for a few yards are Duke and Crow.  Both of them had very nice plays, but Duke isn't going to ever "break one", and I don't see Crow having another big play either.  Not with his limited vision.  

 

If I sound more negative than usual it's because we actually had a chance.  After that blocked punt TD (when the ball was shooting out of the end zone, but the spin made the ball come back into play?!  WTF MAN?!  Has that EVER gone OUR WAY?), I thought we were for SURE getting smoked.  I forget my "official prediction", but I think I had it around 27-13 Steelers.  So I had it pretty close, except for our rookie QB drove us down the field for a beautiful touchdown drive.  He threw a laser to Ricardo (who actually caught it, effing miracle), and Crow had that gorgeous play to get us close.  We had a chance to win a season opener, a HOME opener, and a Steeler game.  It hurts, and hurts badly.  We're now going on the road to face a Ravens team who basically OWNED our other division rival.  Not to mention they had at least 3 INT's, and THAT makes me nervous as hell.  Myles Garrett won't be playing, and don't be surprised if we take a little step backwards.  I don't think we're quite as solid as we looked against the Steelers.  Kizer is a rookie, and a young one at that, so he's going to have "those games" where he completely sucks.  There's a good chance his first road game is such a game, but we'll see.  I also believe Kizer has the talent to have the OPPOSITE "those games", and light people up.  Shit, all the kid has to do is freaking connect with those long balls, and his numbers are bonkers.  

 

Are we better?  Yes, we're better.  But I will tell you this:  We need to win ALL of the close games now, because when the injuries start settling in (they always do), we will start to lose by more and more points.  We aren't at the step in development where we have true depth, so as the injuries pile up, it'll get ugly.  But there's no denying we're a better team, and once this group learns to WIN close games, as opposed to losing them, happy times will finally arrive in Cleveland.  After one game, nobody in their right mind would "anoint" Kizer as the future of the Browns, but I gotta tell ya...he's got the best chance of ANYONE I've seen in years.  He HAS to stay healthy, and we HAVE to keep our coaching staff for a few years to truly see what we have in this kid.  I'm guardedly optimisitc...I just wish we had a "game breaker" for him to throw to.  

 

 

[Tour2ma]

How honest do we have to be?

And I'll get back to you on the throw to Williams' go route...

[calfoxwc]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=400951574

Jiggs - you are missing something when you say bent rapistbooger "  will complete that 3rd and goal almost every time, and basically completes 99.9% of the time against us.    "

he has weapons at wr. Antonio Brown isn't just any wr. We know our wr group isn't finished yet, but so much of the team is.

Britt didn't show up in practices, in preseason...and last sunday. Did you watch Mariotta his rookie year ? He had a tough game.

It's tough to come out your first game as a rookie qb, and be great. Kizer is the real deal - no qb never makes mistakes.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/rookie-mariota-struggles-early-falcons-top-titans-31-020753085--nfl.html

"

ATLANTA (AP) -- Tennessee rookie quarterback Marcus Mariota quickly learned NFL games are different from practice.

Mariota's first two series ended with an interception and a fumble before he recovered to lead a touchdown drive in the Titans' 31-24 loss to the Atlanta Falcons in a preseason opener Friday night.

One play after he was sacked early in his first drive, Mariota's short pass was intercepted by linebacker Justin Durant, whose 20-yard return set up a field goal. On Tennessee's next drive, the ball slipped out of Mariota's hand as he was preparing to pass. Linebacker Paul Worrilow scooped up the loose ball and raced 14 yards for a touchdown."

[Tour2ma]

And one last Steeler game note...

4 Penalties for 61 yards

 

[hoorta]

J- I have to agree with around 90% of what you wrote. I was at the game, and haven't had the chance to look at the DVR yet. 

Regarding Kizer- he was inaccurate at ND, and prone to making huge mistakes on occasion. Why I screamed oh f**k!! when his name got called on draft day. Fer instance- unless Hue has elaborated- Kizer's int was not only underthrown by 15 yards, it was into triple coverage, with Watt trailing the play. 

Thanks Kenny "POS" Britt for that Braylon Edwardsesque drop that hit you right between the 1 and 8. We're paying you $7 million to catch the damn ball. Had he actually caught it, he had smooth sailing for at least another 10-20 yards. Great receivers NEVER drop opportunities like that. I was worried when we signed him, he'd revert to his pre contract year form- which wasn't very good. 

Forget all the other stuff- if we hadn't had that blocked punt, it might have been another story. 

[medicineman]

Horta I said the same thing when I saw he signed Britt, I was like WTF? There are a good bit of decent wideouts we could of signed or made a trade for, Did Sammie play? the guy we got off Pisspuke? Most of our passes were made by TE or RB. Cory C had a couple and I believe Ricardo had 1, other than that our WR didn't do crap. Britt had 1 catch and 1 huge wide open drop.

[TexasAg1969]

15 hours ago, medicineman said:

Horta I said the same thing when I saw he signed Britt, I was like WTF? There are a good bit of decent wideouts we could of signed or made a trade for, Did Sammie play? the guy we got off Pisspuke? Most of our passes were made by TE or RB. Cory C had a couple and I believe Ricardo had 1, other than that our WR didn't do crap. Britt had 1 catch and 1 huge wide open drop.

Kenny Bowe 2.0

[Tour2ma]

Not feeling Bowe analogies... Bowe was done... mentally and physically.

Britt? Not focusing, as the latest drop vividly showed, but still has physical gifts. Hue is sending a wake up call by threatening benching; Williams is likely reminding Britt that "I vouched for your ass."

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Not feeling Bowe analogies... Bowe was done... mentally and physically.

Britt? Not focusing, as the latest drop vividly showed, but still has physical gifts. Hue is sending a wake up call by threatening benching; Williams is likely reminding Britt that "I vouched for your ass."

A drop is a drop by any other name. At this point it's hard to tell the difference. Hopefully that is just as premature as the Garrett bust talk.

[Tour2ma]

20 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

At this point it's hard to tell the difference.

I'm taking a guess based upon the fact that Britt has actually been open...