Garrett Hurt Already

[Flugel]

16 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I didn't really see a relevant thread, so I'll post this here.

Joe Schobert is definitely someone who tries, but his coverage skills are severely lacking, and that's to be expected for a rookie playing a new position. I think I heard teams are 14-16 when targeting him for around 200 yards and 2 tds. That's....not good.

In fairness to Schobert, how many other MLBs in this league have their Safeties 25-30 yards off the line of scrimmage?  That's a REAL deep/ambiguous zone transition (behind him) he's getting all the credit for failure in; especially when you consider MLBs already have to worry about both inside hook zones.  Of course offenses are going to bulls eye that in their plans.  Why wouldn't they?   If Gregg Williams continues to line our Safeties up that deep - my guess is he has more confidence in his MLB than his corners. 

Back when Jauron was here using the 4-3, I thought D'Qwell Jackson had his best season against the run as our MLB in terms of making the majority of his tackles right up against the point of attack (at the line of scrimmage) as opposed to downfield in pursuit that I grew accustomed to.    On the other hand, he got picked on in zone coverage because he took on both inside hooks zones.  At least he had Safety help behind him. If pass coverage was easy for MLBs, an instinctive guy like Spielman wouldn't have had to start coming off the field on 3rd downs (even with Safeties lining up in the same area code).  It's a big reason a lot of teams like to use 4 LBers instead of 3 so the coverage zones are smaller and easier to patrol. 

 

[Clevfan4life]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

In fairness to Schobert, how many other MLBs in this league have their Safeties 25-30 yards off the line of scrimmage?  That's a REAL deep/ambiguous zone transition (behind him) he's getting all the credit for failure in; especially when you consider MLBs already have to worry about both inside hook zones.  Of course offenses are going to bulls eye that in their plans.  Why wouldn't they?   If Gregg Williams continues to line our Safeties up that deep - my guess is he has more confidence in his MLB than his corners. 

Back when Jauron was here using the 4-3, I thought D'Qwell Jackson had his best season against the run as our MLB in terms of making the majority of his tackles right up against the point of attack (at the line of scrimmage) as opposed to downfield in pursuit that I grew accustomed to.    On the other hand, he got picked on in zone coverage because he took on both inside hooks zones.  At least he had Safety help behind him. If pass coverage was easy for MLBs, an instinctive guy like Spielman wouldn't have had to start coming off the field on 3rd downs (even with Safeties lining up in the same area code).  It's a big reason a lot of teams like to use 4 LBers instead of 3 so the coverage zones are smaller and easier to patrol. 

 

I wish we'd bring the 46 back, but our secondary would get torched on bump and run. Garret though would make a great weak side DE in that scheme and williams could get naughty and firezone him alot. He would be a terror in the shallow zone kind of like pgh uses harrison.

[jiggins7919]

Bottom line is we don't have the personnel required to run the style of defense Gregg wants to run. We don't have the number of DB's, which is what really makes the Joe Haden release so puzzling. It's not like we were having cap problems. What do we really gain by letting him go? All it does is cripple us because of the trickle down effect, and what happens if we get an injury? Furthermore, we literally don't have a free safety on the roster who has ANY NFL experience. Do you have any idea how completely insane that is? My thoughts were to try Joe Haden at free safety. Why not? And it wasn't like I was the only one saying this.

Novices and amateur fans were saying this all year, so please tell me why our front office doesn't possess the foresight required to see this stuff? And if you REALLY want to get ticked off, just know that Malik Hooker has 3 INTs ALREADY and I was absolutely SCREAMING to draft him. I was screaming like a lunatic like somehow the television could hear me and relay the information to our front office. Oh but don't worry, we have Jabril Peppers who literally has done NOTHING AT ALL this year, and looks completely terrible. Like...worthless terrible. And yes I know it's a new position for him, but I don't care right now. I'm irritated because it really appears that novices like me know more about football than our freaking experts. We keep hearing about a 3 year plan. Does anyone really believe we're going to be ANY better next year? I don't. We have no WRs, free safety, big play ability, or much of anything that inspires hope. And yeah I know I sound negative right now, but can anyone really contradict me? I want SOME progress, and I want it right the heck NOW. 

 

[TexasAg1969]

15 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

 We keep hearing about a 3 year plan. Does anyone really believe we're going to be ANY better next year? I don't. We have no WRs, free safety, big play ability, or much of anything that inspires hope. And yeah I know I sound negative right now, but can anyone really contradict me? I want SOME progress, and I want it right the heck NOW.

Mud? That you?

[jiggins7919]

I'm angry. I know it. But don't worry, I won't break my rule of posting during the game. I realize I'm not mature enough to comment during the game, so I won't. However, I would like to remind everyone that I DID predict for the first time, a Cleveland Browns victory. Today some things come together for us, just in time. I think we're due for "that game" where stuff magically goes right. Starting with the freaking coin toss. Jesus, we haven't even won a COIN TOSS. Then we get points on our 1st drive, and then we get momentum after our defense or special teams scores a touchdown (stop laughing). Yes folks, it's time for a victory. Josh McCown has never won 3 in a row, and he won 2 in a row for the 1st time since 2004. We are going to win the darn game, and it will be a total team effort. We will run the ball with Crow effectively. We'll get Duke involved on 3rd down. We won't blitz every damn 3rd down, and we'll force FG's in the red zone. Now, it won't come easy folks. We're going to have difficulty passing the ball because we don't have WRs. Guys, look at the total productivity of the WRs playing today. I'm not kidding when I say that the leading receiver probably has less than 200 yards total in his career. Our receivers won't get open. They won't separate. They won't catch everything. It'll be slow going with them, and we'll have to use the TE's more, and possibly a trick play today. We can win the game with 2 offensive touchdowns today. Let's find a way to get them. 

[TexasAg1969]

[miktoxic]

37 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I'm angry. I know it. But don't worry, I won't break my rule of posting during the game. I realize I'm not mature enough to comment during the game, so I won't. However, I would like to remind everyone that I DID predict for the first time, a Cleveland Browns victory. Today some things come together for us, just in time. I think we're due for "that game" where stuff magically goes right. Starting with the freaking coin toss. Jesus, we haven't even won a COIN TOSS. Then we get points on our 1st drive, and then we get momentum after our defense or special teams scores a touchdown (stop laughing). Yes folks, it's time for a victory. Josh McCown has never won 3 in a row, and he won 2 in a row for the 1st time since 2004. We are going to win the darn game, and it will be a total team effort. We will run the ball with Crow effectively. We'll get Duke involved on 3rd down. We won't blitz every damn 3rd down, and we'll force FG's in the red zone. Now, it won't come easy folks. We're going to have difficulty passing the ball because we don't have WRs. Guys, look at the total productivity of the WRs playing today. I'm not kidding when I say that the leading receiver probably has less than 200 yards total in his career. Our receivers won't get open. They won't separate. They won't catch everything. It'll be slow going with them, and we'll have to use the TE's more, and possibly a trick play today. We can win the game with 2 offensive touchdowns today. Let's find a way to get them. 

See if you mirrored your statement to everything opposite you said then I'd show u some respect.

Jets were supposed to suck worse than Browns this year.....HA!!! 

Browns running game hasn't been good since the 80s, let alone FOs and coaching staffs.

Pettine and Farmer sucked (pleez). Mangini was too much the disciplinarian. But hue and Harvard can sniff a jock and tell they're a franchise QB.

what a sham. How do these biz men get fooled by Sanford and Son?

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Bottom line is we don't have the personnel required to run the style of defense Gregg wants to run. We don't have the number of DB's, which is what really makes the Joe Haden release so puzzling. It's not like we were having cap problems. What do we really gain by letting him go? All it does is cripple us because of the trickle down effect, and what happens if we get an injury? Furthermore, we literally don't have a free safety on the roster who has ANY NFL experience. Do you have any idea how completely insane that is? My thoughts were to try Joe Haden at free safety. Why not? And it wasn't like I was the only one saying this.

Novices and amateur fans were saying this all year, so please tell me why our front office doesn't possess the foresight required to see this stuff? And if you REALLY want to get ticked off, just know that Malik Hooker has 3 INTs ALREADY and I was absolutely SCREAMING to draft him. I was screaming like a lunatic like somehow the television could hear me and relay the information to our front office. Oh but don't worry, we have Jabril Peppers who literally has done NOTHING AT ALL this year, and looks completely terrible. Like...worthless terrible. And yes I know it's a new position for him, but I don't care right now. I'm irritated because it really appears that novices like me know more about football than our freaking experts. We keep hearing about a 3 year plan. Does anyone really believe we're going to be ANY better next year? I don't. We have no WRs, free safety, big play ability, or much of anything that inspires hope. And yeah I know I sound negative right now, but can anyone really contradict me? I want SOME progress, and I want it right the heck NOW. 

 

We haven't ever had the personnel to run a 3-4 either so this franchise finally came to the conclusion our personnel was closer to being compatible with a 43.  The first priority was improve the edge rush; but Myles Garrett has been hurt.  That's just bad luck especially since he has the type of injury that doesn't always heal within 16 weeks.  Next priority was to be better against the run; and we've accomplished that at least according to the yard per carry of our opponents.   

We can agree that it is a passing era so somewhere in our priority list, we should be bringing in better WRs than the junior varsity WR Corps we're gagging on.  In addition, we should be looking for better corners than the Jamar Taylor that disappointed his first team in Miami.   I didn't understand the contract extension at the end of last year at all; but Mud seemed like one of the only ones who agreed with my lack of enthuse about it. Meanwhile, TN upgraded McCourty so we're starting him and pretending that's wonderful enough to blame everything on Schobert?   I'll guarantee you if we line up our Safeties in the same area code as Schobert, he'd look a little more like D'Qwell Jackson when Jauron was here (especially against the run).  I put all those specifics in my previous reply to you. 

So, in this passing era - we have a less than competitive WR Corps & tandem of starting corners to worry about aside from a rookie QB we don't know if he will be the next Brandon Weeden or Vinny Testaverde (who took years to almost develop on a team like this in Tampa before better settings elsewhere allowed it). There's a lot of guys in here whose opinions I respect about QBs that think Kizer will end up being worth the growing pains so I'll try to be a little more patient and bigger picture about him and the lack of tools outside he has...

If we're going to have all kinds of cake$ - I'd rather see us not throwing away 16 million $ on Brock Osweiler (whom we originally had zero intention of keeping) all the while we're not drafting any significant help at WR and Corner.  I've always had a habit of betting with my heart when it comes to this franchise; and unfortunately that usually proves to be 1 gigantic brain fart.

 

 

 

[Flugel]

6 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

I wish we'd bring the 46 back, but our secondary would get torched on bump and run. Garret though would make a great weak side DE in that scheme and williams could get naughty and firezone him alot. He would be a terror in the shallow zone kind of like pgh uses harrison.

Once upon a time Gregg Williams was on Buddy Ryan's staff in Houston (along with Jeff Fisher) when they were trying to run that defense.  If you remember the 85 Bears, there was 1 QB that shredded that Defense on MNF.  It was Dan Marino.  I bring that up because a lot of things have changed in favor of passing games since 1985, which is why some of the next generation of 46 defense haven't been as successful.  Philly never even won a single playoff game with it.

To your point, Williams has used some 46 wrinkles in places he's had some of the personnel to pull it off.  This team is coming off 1-15 so I'm guessing we'll have to wait on that a little.

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I'm angry. I know it. But don't worry, I won't break my rule of posting during the game. I realize I'm not mature enough to comment during the game, so I won't. However, I would like to remind everyone that I DID predict for the first time, a Cleveland Browns victory. Today some things come together for us, just in time. I think we're due for "that game" where stuff magically goes right. Starting with the freaking coin toss. Jesus, we haven't even won a COIN TOSS. Then we get points on our 1st drive, and then we get momentum after our defense or special teams scores a touchdown (stop laughing). Yes folks, it's time for a victory. Josh McCown has never won 3 in a row, and he won 2 in a row for the 1st time since 2004. We are going to win the darn game, and it will be a total team effort. We will run the ball with Crow effectively. We'll get Duke involved on 3rd down. We won't blitz every damn 3rd down, and we'll force FG's in the red zone. Now, it won't come easy folks. We're going to have difficulty passing the ball because we don't have WRs. Guys, look at the total productivity of the WRs playing today. I'm not kidding when I say that the leading receiver probably has less than 200 yards total in his career. Our receivers won't get open. They won't separate. They won't catch everything. It'll be slow going with them, and we'll have to use the TE's more, and possibly a trick play today. We can win the game with 2 offensive touchdowns today. Let's find a way to get them. 

I'll admit, I kind of want to see you post during the game now. Sounds like it would be entertaining!

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Does anyone really believe we're going to be ANY better next year?

Yo... and yes.

The FS spot is a sore one... even for us non-Hooker guys. It was a deep FS draft and our need, even before Reynolds went down was discernible... #Front2Back&InsideOut. Gregg has adapted as best he can and Schobert has exceeded my expectations even with the added challenge Flugs enumerated. Was Haden an answer? Dunno... but his 2016 concussion issues did not bode well.

2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I won't break my rule of posting during the game.

There's always the Mobile Tavern.... feel free to groan and cheer with us.

1 hour ago, miktoxic said:

1. Jets were supposed to suck worse than Browns this year.....HA!!! 
2. Browns running game hasn't been good since the 80s, let alone FOs and coaching staffs.

1. TBD... very soon now...
2. Excepting a brief period in the late 2000's (Droughns/Lewis/Lewis... 1000 yarders 3 our of 4 years running)... yes. But as with past "FOs and staffs", that has no bearing on today.

#TheseAreTheTimesThatTryMen'sSouls

[Tour2ma]

44 minutes ago, Flugel said:

We haven't ever had the personnel to run a 3-4 either

We've spent years  bouncing back and forth from 4-3 to 3-4. Better fit does not equal best fit. Here's hoping for a 3rd year in one D fed by drafts and FA.

21 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Philly never even won a single playoff game with it.

Not to mention the Buddy factor as HC.

[Mudfly]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

We've spent years  bouncing back and forth from 4-3 to 3-4.

My memory has us winning 7 in Pets first year and then firing him for losing half his team to injury and forcing an idiot QB down his throat, thus causing the team to step back in year 2.....that was just 3 years ago......and now, 7 wins is a pipe dream....

[stillmotion]

36 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

My memory has us winning 7 in Pets first year and then firing him for losing half his team to injury and forcing an idiot QB down his throat, thus causing the team to step back in year 2.....that was just 3 years ago......and now, 7 wins is a pipe dream....

Pettine went through so much. dude was underrated. not saying he's a great coach, but he was dealt a shitty hand in the NFL. Equivalent to being dealt the hand of being a midget in real life.

[gumby73]

On 10/5/2017 at 10:35 PM, Ghoolie said:

....Garrett is a Zumba instructor.

Zumba Boy..Badda Book'it..Garretts Gonna Boom!!

[Tour2ma]

43 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

My memory has us winning 7 in Pets first year and then firing him for losing half his team to injury and forcing an idiot QB down his throat, thus causing the team to step back in year 2.....that was just 3 years ago......and now, 7 wins is a pipe dream....

You can't have forgotten that we were in lock-step thru 2015... I haven't.

But we did stay in a 3-4 thru the Pet- Horton transition... not that they resembled each other much after the snap.

[Mudfly]

21 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

You can't have forgotten that we were in lock-step thru 2015... I haven't.

But we did stay in a 3-4 thru the Pet- Horton transition... not that they resembled each other much after the snap.

YES...and the truth is that I totally misread your comment....IE: I thought you were referring to 3-4 wins....not 3-4 D.....

I had actually been advocating for a 4-3 for quite some time and, even during Pets tenure, thought the 3-4 was the wrong way to go....

So, in that respect....I now have what I was asking for all along and am glad we made that basic switch....though, the reason I railed for 4-3 was that our personnel was suited for it....but now that we are in the 4-3, those players are all gone.....so well never know if their performance would have improved or not....

[Mudfly]

Since this is a Garrett thread....I will say.....I am excited to finally see him play a whole game.....praying he looks like the top pick.....

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Looked good on the one play he made the sack.  Keep it up!

[Clevfan4life]

Garrets not 100%. He's not planting on that ankle when he's engaged with a tackle

[wargograw]

Didn't watch today. How'd he look?

[D Bone]

Just now, wargograw said:

Didn't watch today. How'd he look?

Good and bad..... The sacks will get the headlines, but on his other 11 plays he was just there. Dude isn't 100% for sure and hopefully he doesn't regress injury wise. 

There was a lot to be hopeful about though. 

[Clevfan4life]

U can see how even at 75% or less he's head and shoulders above our other DE's. Thats maddening. When he geys his speed to power back he's going to be unblockable by these low end o lines

[Clevfan4life]

His knife through on that first sack was an eye opener. Just stupid fast and agile. Unfortunately u can seenhis change of direction is affected. He also cant gangsta lean around the edge which he did like a boss in preseason. Dudes got a ways to go before he's ready. Id shut him down next week if his ankle is gimpy at all

[Orion]

Myles was gimpy.  

His first play he darted left then right sneaking between two guys right up the middle and came upon McCown so fast that McCown just assumed the 'I'm tackled' position.  But later on your could see that he shouldn't have been out there.....limping about.

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, wargograw said:

Didn't watch today. How'd he look?

War, I think you played? I played TE at Toledo as a failed walk on after ankle sprains & am still looking at tape. But if I tell you coming off a high ankle sprain your going to play somewhere before half. Than sit Half. than were going to stick you back in, Oh lets say about 11:10 of 4th how tight is your ankle again?In 4th quarter at 11:18 Naz goes down.At 11:10-11:02 Myles stays home makes play to sidelines limping.Stays on at 10:50.On still hopping at 10:12.At 9:35 Myles attemps a slow spin on a TE,Myles comes off & Naz returns for rest of game from 8:35. next play 1st & 10 TD Kerse..(still looking last appearance in 1st half but Kwan Williams exit comes to mind) Also see Odel did not make it thru whole game either.got to get a run in,look later

[TexasAg1969]

I'm betting he sits next week I could not understand why they didn't keep that leg warmed up on a stationary bike unless the reason was he was done until Nassib had to leave the game.

[Clevfan4life]

Just for perspective, dude gets two sacks within 10 snaps playing hurt, nowhere near 100%. Do our other DE's have that many sacks in 5 Shmucking games? If that doesnt enlighten some of u dumbasses as to our talent gap i dont know what other pie chart is needed to illustrate how Retarded we are at trading down

[jiggins7919]

I'm certainly HOPING Garrett doesn't have to sit next week, but it's certainly hard to imagine his ankle will have the needed time to heal.  I don't know if he tweeked it, or if it's just sore, but it's obvious he was hurting pretty bad during his last play.  What really hurts is you get a taste of what this guy can do, and it's completely obvious that if he's healthy, there's no way anybody is going to block him consistently.  He's about the biggest rascal I've ever seen, and he's going to put the hurtin' on people for a LONG time.  Let's not panic yet, it's very possible that he didn't hurt it further, and it's just sore.  Sprained ankles don't generally "heal" quickly, and they freaking linger forever.  They get sore and they pissed off if you use them too much.  Hopefully the treatment he receives makes him available this weekend.  

[D Bone]

He needs to be shut down until he is 100%..... anything else is bad coaching.