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Haden a Steeler

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7 hours ago, gumby73 said:

scrap that.. 3yrs 27M .(nfl network)...Joe's a Steeler 

Nice way to coast out your career with a part time job and still make some gas money.  :D  Is this a great country or what!

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3 hours ago, Frenchie said:

This money-ball move is hard to comprehend. It's not like money is the issue because we have a lot of cap-space. Maybe Haden isn't worth $11M but he was a veteran leader, arguably our top corner, and all teams have contracts that they wished they didn't sign. We're willing to pay $13M for a future second round draft pick but not $11M for a veteran leader and contributor on a team lacking in secondary talent. That argument is spurious.

Tale-of-the-Tape: Browns save $7M (I heard we owe him $4 anyway). Browns lose a starting corner reducing the talent there to only 3 people. Steelers gain a corner to add to their depth at the position and make their team better. 

Hmmmm. I say this decision sucks lemons and backfired. They say he was having a great camp. I don't know about that ... maybe the Browns thought the exact opposite. That must be considered in this decision. 

But Shasi, for the love of God, when are you going to field a winning team like your job is on the line? Because no GM that is feeling that pressure makes this move over $7M. All teams get draft choices, and gain/lose free agents. But few of them (other than those with cap issues) make a move to reduce talent to save more money.

Where am I wrong? 

Your argument is solid. Joe is a leader, and people looked upto him. Getting rid of him is a downgrade, and it's not like Sashi and Jimmy are going to sign anyone else except someone that would cost Jimmy peanuts. I see it as our secondary getting worse. Steelers never got rid of Polamalu or James Harrison to save money. 

We paid for Osweiler and that pick, which are apparently more important than Joe. 

Not only that, but last year we cut people we didn't have a replacement for and got worse in certain positions.

I wonder what Mudfly thinks about this....

 

Can someone logically argue that Sashi is making us better and not only saving Jimmy money?

I guess it doesn't matter, since the owner doesn't seem to give a rats tail if we win as long as he's selling tickets, merch, and making money.

And how long is this moneyball "plan"?

10 years?

Maybe football guys know football and harvard guys know business, but business knowledge doesn't always equal football knowledge, and to blindly praise Sashi for everything he does is a mistake.

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3 hours ago, PoeticG said:

Why should he have to take a pay cut that HE EARNED!? 

When this season is over then you could ask him to restructure! Players that overproduce are expected to play for their cheap contracts and earn a bigger one. Why should they willingly have to take a pay cut if they earned it? You can't have it both ways. That's opening up a can of worms.

He had a 23 million injury settlement in his contract according to the link I found.

With at least 2 concussions already and other injuries what are the odds of Haden collecting? NFL contracts are not guaranteed and  as a player youve have 1 foot on a banana peel..

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2 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Nice way to coast out your career with a part time job and still make some gas money.  :D  Is this a great country or what!

Plus hes going to live near Primartis Bros sandwiches.

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3 hours ago, hoorta said:

 

Get it through your head- it was a mutual agreement. Sashi knows what the market is- and proved it with Pryor. You don't win Super Bowls by being sentimental. Was Joe a fan favorite? Sure. Personally liked him a lot.  

Look no further than what Belichick has done the last 16 years?

How many times have you heard of him cutting or trading a popular player a year or 2 before they hit the wall? Lawyer Milloy, Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour. Woulddnt you open up the bank vault for LeGarrette Blount who had 18 TDs last season leading the NFL? Nope, he brought in a younger RB named Mike Gillisliie.

This Sashi guy is pressing all the right buttons and the Browns are bringing up younger players so they can gain experience.

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My real theory: Haden sucks. 

 

My conspiracy theory: Sashi sees this could be a pretty good team in 2017 but wants one more year of high picks and thinks this might be a way to get it. 

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10 hours ago, PoeticG said:

Players get hurt! That is the game of FOOTBALL! I'm sorry if these anal antic faggots don't understand the game, since they've never played it in their life. Players are gonna get hurt and it's gonna take some time to get back into playing the way they did before the injury. I guess we're unwilling to wait then? 

 

Well, if that is the approach then check this. Sashi, you fucking bitch, you have one year to produce. You shit the bed last year. You shit the bed again and you're fucking GONE too period.

If you are unwilling to hold you're goddamn dick in your pants, then so are we. Produce NOW or get the fuck on. 

You don't fuck with loyalty in Brownstown. You make me fucking sick.

 

Ghoolie is right we have some stupid fans. It's a business. 

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Odds were against him completing the season healthy. Got to go with most recent history, but hard to believe we could not even get a conditional out of him. But that tells me  31 other teams see him as too risky to trade for. I wonder if Sushi knows something about Wilson's return that we don't know.

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Reminds me of another fan favorite that was let go because of "diminishing skills".

Whether or not Joe is on the downside is not important right now. 

What is important is that his acquisition just made the Steelers a better team. Joe on crutches is better than anything they have.

What may also be disturbing to some is that Haden wanted to be a Steeler. Reports of him turning down bigger offers.

He, his father and family excited to be a part of Steeler Nation.

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9 minutes ago, StinkHole said:

 

Reminds me of another fan favorite that was let go because of "diminishing skills".

Whether or not Joe is on the downside is not important right now. 

What is important is that his acquisition just made the Steelers a better team. Joe on crutches is better than anything they have.

What may also be disturbing to some is that Haden wanted to be a Steeler. Reports of him turning down bigger offers.

He, his father and family excited to be a part of Steeler Nation.

Who wouldn't want to be apart of a winning team. Obviously rivalry meant nothing to him. It does to some players like deangelo williams. But it's a business. Fuck it.

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Reminds me of another fan favorite that was let go because of "diminishing skills".Whether or not Joe is on the downside is not important right now. What is important is that his acquisition just made the Steelers a better team. Joe on crutches is better than anything they have.

What may also be disturbing to some is that Haden wanted to be a Steeler. Reports of him turning down bigger offers.He, his father and family excited to be a part of Steeler Fakin. Stinkie

************************************************************************************************

it shouldn't. Kosar was let go after changing buttichek's play and KOSAR's play went for a TD. A throw.

So, unless you think Haden changed Hue's play, it shouldn't have reminded you of anything of the sort.

  And, blaming Sashi is foolish. You can bet he didn't make this move alone - and you can bet

Gregg initiated it.  Haden hadn't been the earlier Joe Haden for a few years - and McCourty has

been making plays all over the field. Poor Joe lost his burst. The upside is, the squealers desperately

wanted him when he was cut. Back in the day, nearly nobody desperately wanted any Browns player that was cut.

Things are really looking up. LOL  BTW, the joke in on the squealers - the first time they tell Joe to

deliberately take out an opposing qb's knee, he will tell them to shove it.

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Skills diminish, anyone know where Minnifield and Dixon are playing theses days?

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11 hours ago, Frenchie said:

Where am I wrong? 

Don't get me wrong, I love Haden and his name is on the only Browns jersey I own, but you are wrong about him being arguably our best corner. He USED to be undisputedly our best corner. Performance wise, he's been outplayed by Jamar Taylor, BBC last year, and also by McCourty this preseason. 

He earns a big contract and proceeds to be terrible. I don't blame it on the contract, but the injuries. You'll recall, however, that he wasn't willing to tough it out on some of those injuries, where I'm sure the expectation, after getting such a big contract, was to tough it out. Gregg Williams put him on notice about this when he came in. 

Hate on the FO all you want, they are doing the right thing to build a sustainable, winning team.  It wasn't long ago we were all praising their draft which has yielded promising young starters out of the first three of our four picks and has transformed our offensive line from one terrible to potentially one of the best in the league. You all need to see the forest and stop fixating on the trees. 

You are also wrong about Sashi's job being on the line, and I'm thankful that Jimmy came to his senses and disposed of this nonsensical itchy-trigger-finger thinking that permeates the Brown's fanbase. Sashi's job is secure. It's secure because you don't fix 17 years of sucking in two years. Haslam finally gets that. Sashi is going to be given the chance to see his plan to completion, and when it's done I guarantee you we'll have a winning football team.

Read my signature text and either get on board the roller coaster or head on over to the kiddie rides. 

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Message to team from Gregg Williams: You are in this 100% or you are out the door regardless of your past accomplishments.

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13 minutes ago, Osiris said:

Don't get me wrong, I love Haden and his name is on the only Browns jersey I own, but you are wrong about him being arguably our best corner. He USED to be undisputedly our best corner. Performance wise, he's been outplayed by Jamar Taylor, BBC last year, and also by McCourty this preseason. 

He earns a big contract and proceeds to be terrible. I don't blame it on the contract, but the injuries. You'll recall, however, that he wasn't willing to tough it out on some of those injuries, where I'm sure the expectation, after getting such a big contract, was to tough it out. Gregg Williams put him on notice about this when he came in. 

Hate on the FO all you want, they are doing the right thing to build a sustainable, winning team.  It wasn't long ago we were all praising their draft which has yielded promising young starters out of the first three of our four picks and has transformed our offensive line from one terrible to potentially one of the best in the league. You all need to see the forest and stop fixating on the trees. 

You are also wrong about Sashi's job being on the line, and I'm thankful that Jimmy came to his senses and disposed of this nonsensical itchy-trigger-finger thinking that permeates the Brown's fanbase. Sashi's job is secure. It's secure because you don't fix 17 years of sucking in two years. Haslam finally gets that. Sashi is going to be given the chance to see his plan to completion, and when it's done I guarantee you we'll have a winning football team.

Read my signature text and either get on board the roller coaster or head on over to the kiddie rides. 

Excellent post

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Thank you, Pittsburgh, for taking Haden off the Browns' hands. I think he'll be a complete bust for the Steelers, truthfully. He's been terrible for the Browns the last couple years. Between concussions and surgeries, he's not been on the field much, and when he has been, he's been burned for big plays more often than not.

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1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

...........What may also be disturbing to some is that Haden wanted to be a Steeler........

Then screw him!

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13 hours ago, Gafreleets said:

Doesn't matter. He wasn't the worst CB on your roster and he's a upgrade for us.

We don't know about that. Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps better than some of the UDFAs that will be cut.  But he was getting burned like a lobster in a pot.  

 

Subtraction from your overall team talent and addition to our overall team talent.

Maybe. On the other hand, if he plays like he has lately...he may not be any better of an addition than if you had kept one of your UDFA CBs in lieu of picking Joe up.

 

That's how you own a division.

You own a division by being a MOR team, but having the other teams in your division be some kind of sucky.  At least that is what happened last year:   2016.  Steelers win division...NO other team above .500.  2015 Bengals Div. Champ  2014 Steelers win division with 11-5 record: Bengals 10-5-1, Ravens 10-6.  2013 Bengals win Division  2012. Ravens and Bengals tie for division title. 2012.  Ravens and Steelers tie for division title.

I am not sure what it is you think you own...but it certainly has not been the supremacy of the AFCN in the last 5 years. (but, I do expect Steelers to win this year...because Bengals and Ravens continue to drop off..and Browns have not yet gotten to the point where they can challenge)

 

Haden gonna win more games this year than he has in the last 3 with the Clown's.

That means the Steelers have to win 12 games this year.  Yea, no, I don't see that happening.  I think you may be lucky to have Joe PLAY in 12 games this year.  He has been so injury prone.

 

 

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11 hours ago, macula31 said:

FWIW, Browns now owe Haden nothing.  He's a hit on their cap, but the 4 mil the Browns owed Haden is offset by the Pittsburgh deal, not the other way around.

You sure?  That is not what I heard.  I heard that he gets his 4 mill from the Browns, plus the 7 mill from the Squibs. I thought the offset would only apply if he got from the Squibs what he would have made this year had he stayed with the Browns....the full 11 mill.  No?

Irregardless, the Browns still take about a 3.5 mill cap hit  (not that it matters as they are far below the cap number)

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8 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Your argument is solid. Joe is a leader, and people looked upto him. Getting rid of him is a downgrade, and it's not like Sashi and Jimmy are going to sign anyone else except someone that would cost Jimmy peanuts. I see it as our secondary getting worse. Steelers never got rid of Polamalu or James Harrison to save money. 

We paid for Osweiler and that pick, which are apparently more important than Joe. 

Not only that, but last year we cut people we didn't have a replacement for and got worse in certain positions.

I wonder what Mudfly thinks about this....

 

Can someone logically argue that Sashi is making us better and not only saving Jimmy money?

I guess it doesn't matter, since the owner doesn't seem to give a rats tail if we win as long as he's selling tickets, merch, and making money.

And how long is this moneyball "plan"?

10 years?

Maybe football guys know football and harvard guys know business, but business knowledge doesn't always equal football knowledge, and to blindly praise Sashi for everything he does is a mistake.

IF....Gregg Williams thought that Joe was toast...and that the Browns would be better off with the likes of McCourty, Taylor, the Lady Brienne,  Hillary, Burley, Murray and Stribling....then in their view this move DOES make them better.  And include possibly some waiver pick up.  And don't forget Howard Wilson whom they drafted. And then their is the draft next year.   This FO is all about the long term.

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2 hours ago, StinkHole said:

 

Reminds me of another fan favorite that was let go because of "diminishing skills".

Difference was with Kosar, they had no replacement...they had Todd Philcox.  Browns have replacements for Joe that are likely better.

Whether or not Joe is on the downside is not important right now. 

He IS on the downside. 

What is important is that his acquisition just made the Steelers a better team. Joe on crutches is better than anything they have.

Now, that is quite an admission about the sorry state of affairs of the Steelers Defensive Backfield. Browns believe they had 4-5 CBs better than Haden.  This is an apparent tacit admission that now the Browns have 4-5 CBs that are better than anything the Steelers have.

What may also be disturbing to some is that Haden wanted to be a Steeler. Reports of him turning down bigger offers.

You need to provide proof of those reports because I have not heard them...nor do I believe them.

He, his father and family excited to be a part of Steeler Nation.

Of course they are happy....despite what you said in your sentence above, the Steelers, I believe are paying him (and his family) vast amounts of money that they doubted that they would get otherwise.  I would be happy if the Steelers paid me 7 million dollars. For that I would go Ghoolie on you and sing their praises.

 

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15 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

You sure?  That is not what I heard.  I heard that he gets his 4 mill from the Browns, plus the 7 mill from the Squibs. I thought the offset would only apply if he got from the Squibs what he would have made this year had he stayed with the Browns....the full 11 mill.  No?

Irregardless, the Browns still take about a 3.5 mill cap hit  (not that it matters as they are far below the cap number)

This is what I understand as well.

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13 minutes ago, Mr. Make-Believe said:

This is what I understand as well.

Reports elsewhere say that the Browns now owe him squadoosh.    Bottom line, does it matter to any of us if Jimmy either has to save or spend money?  It only matter to Joe H. and Jim H.   And the salary cap hit is no real factor.  Its not like Browns are close in that regard.

The only issue is the talent that is on the field...and in the coaching ranks.   Apparently Browns felt they had 4-5 CBs better than Joe.  I am not sure about that....but they were satisfied with that fact.

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3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Reports elsewhere say that the Browns now owe him squadoosh.    Bottom line, does it matter to any of us if Jimmy either has to save or spend money?  It only matter to Joe H. and Jim H.   And the salary cap hit is no real factor.  Its not like Browns are close in that regard.

The only issue is the talent that is on the field...and in the coaching ranks.   Apparently Browns felt they had 4-5 CBs better than Joe.  I am not sure about that....but they were satisfied with that fact.

I've read reports that the Browns are paying $4M of the $7M he gets this year.  Read reports that the Browns don't have to pay anything (but it still goes on the cap)... 

If Haden is making only $7M this year, then this is 100% on HIM and nothing on Sashi Brown.  It would mean that he simply wanted to play for the Steelers and stamped his own ticket out of town in accomplishing that goal.

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I've never been on the Joe Hayden hate wagon. I realize he's lost a step and isn't worth the money anymore. It's too bad because that type of situation always bothers me especially when the guy seems to have had a good attitude. On the other hand if the Cleveland Browns decided they'd be just as happy to pay his salary and be rid of him then I can't blame him for going anywhere else. I don't wish him luck in Pittsburgh and I hope that he plays at least as poorly or worse than he's played for us. But I understand any player not wanting to admit that he's washed up. Every human being can possibly have an inflated idea of how much gas they have left in the tank. It's not personal, he wasn't born and raised in Cleveland. We hate the Steelers. Fuck them and in their wake I guess fuck him too, but it's not personal.

WSS

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