Honest no fanboy discussion about our front 7

[Tour2ma]

32 minutes ago, LondonBrown said:

Be very surprised, "analytically" Kizer didnt make the grade. Think he was more the eye test as when he flashed he looked very very good. 

I'll take that bet for a pint... I think both went hand-in-hand over two seasons... and then into The Combine.

First there's his 2015 data which better matched that season's eye results. Then I think his 2016 results can be adjusted in light of the decline in the team around him... something which can be quantified.

Analytically I think his biggest deficiency was his release time/ the length of his throwing motion. And it was this that he worked hardest on addressing during his pre-draft training... or at least was most successful addressing. If there's a key to the possibility of him being a 2nd round steal, it is his improvement in this area.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

2016:

• Goff did sit, but because he had real issues adapting to play calling and getting under Center. So that's one...
• Wentz flat won the job. He made Bradford expendable plus Philly still had Chase Daniels as backup.

2015: Both Winston and Mariotta started.

2014: Bortles (a #3) started.

2012: Both Luck and Griffin started.

2011: Newton started.

2010: Bradford started.

2009: Stafford started.

 

I think that pretty much covers recent history of 1's and 2's.... and a #3...

My you have really been able to block out that #22 overall in 2014. PTSD?

[LondonBrown]

8 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I'll take that bet for a pint... I think both went hand-in-hand over two seasons... and then into The Combine.

First there's his 2015 data which better matched that season's eye results. Then I think his 2016 results can be adjusted in light of the decline in the team around him... something which can be quantified.

Analytically I think his biggest deficiency was his release time/ the length of his throwing motion. And it was this that he worked hardest on addressing during his pre-draft training... or at least was most successful addressing. If there's a key to the possibility of him being a 2nd round steal, it is his improvement in this area.

Pint it is

 

Analytics guide I had pre draft, what you said were his analytical issues are just eye test, analytics is success against historical data  

[Tour2ma]

Interesting results, but I don't see anything about evaluating the talent around him... that said, I'll buy.

It is interesting that his Ideal Scheme is Coryell... emphasis on vertical game is one thing it has in common with Hue.

[hoorta]

37 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

My you have really been able to block out that #22 overall in 2014. PTSD?

We were just talking about QBs picked in the top 5 or so Ag.    Three QBs with the #22 pick- three flops. If we ever end up there again- I say trade out of it.  

21 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Interesting results, but I don't see anything about evaluating the talent around him... that said, I'll buy.

It is interesting that his Ideal Scheme is Coryell... emphasis on vertical game is one thing it has in common with Hue.

Ha my "Eye Test" analysis of Kizer jives with that bottom line rating of his potential London posted. I absolutely hated the pick, and if you remember- I was pretty vocal about it.   Didn't like at all anything I saw of him at Notre Dame.   I hope he proves me wrong, I'm tired of the QB revolving door- but if Deshone bombs- it's "Suck for Sam".  Though I think at this point the Jets are playing that game. 

[Clevfan4life]

How does pff say our o line is 2nd best when the d line has approx x100 talent?

[Ghoolie]

On 8/29/2017 at 5:30 AM, hoorta said:

Ghoolie changes direction like the wind. We have him painted in a corner with his opinion on Lynch. "Can't be evaluated yet" after one full season, but Garrett's a bust before the season starts. 😀

I NEVER changed direction. YOu want me to credit Hue for having to learn what I told everyone on draft day? Hue IS a jackoff. I never said Kizer is the answer. What I said was, he is the ONLY QB who has the potential to be the answer, the franchise guy. This isn't about endorsing Kizer, it is about this fuck off organization not knowking how to make the right call from the beginning.

Look, you Clevtards, The entire Browns organization is doing NOW, after wasting how many weeks, what I said they should be doing from day one. Indstead of sending a strong message from DAY ONE....................... Kizer is our guy.................. Hue instead says.................... Kizer is our guy because the fuck holes I started looked like shit............ just like Ghoolie told us.

[Ghoolie]

On 8/29/2017 at 5:19 AM, LondonBrown said:

What? Less than 10 days ago were adamant Hue was a jack off because he wasn't starting Kizer !?

Yes, you limey train-puller. Hue IS a jackoff. What fucking part of the English language turns you brain into shit? Follow along, I will type S L O W L Y for you...........

1) I don't believe Kizer is worth a good shit

2) Kizer is STILL better than anyone else we have

3) Only Kizer has skills that COULD make me eat crow and develop into a franchise QB

4) I said it from before training camp, Kizer needs to be introduced as THE GUY...................... from day one................... Instead? We introduce him AFTER the garbage ahead of him played like the shit they are.

 

SO now, we have the last game of preseason and Kizer has how much experience with the first team.?

 

HUE needs to be fired, He is a failure. A Jackoff.

[Ghoolie]

On 8/28/2017 at 0:22 PM, boo fagley said:

How can experts even form an opinion on this latest draft after only 3 pre season games let alone someone with 30 years experience watching football on TV? 

Its also plausible that Williams is holding Garret back somewhat. Turn him loose on Pittsburgh then see what he brings to the table.

Ive lost all faith in Ghoolie and his predictions. Appears that Tribsky will lose the starting job to Glennon. I just found out about another of his favorites Paxton Lynch.  He tells me that Brady is finished. 

OH  shit..................... I forgot that one.................... The whole NFL is against poor Myles Garrett and the refs are allowing him to be held.

AHHHHHh...... that explains why the fucking guy is making no impact or sacks. Garrett B L O W S

[LondonBrown]

4 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Yes, you limey train-puller. 

Haha I've long wondered what limey meant as an insult but limey train puller? This, I need to know. 

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Youre about to find out in a week when the real bullets start flying if Garret is the real deal or not.

Something I've said since the day we drafted him, it's not all about Garrett. It's about how much attention he draws away from the rest of the defenders so they can make the plays. So far that has worked well in preseason. This UNIT just needs to keep playing the way they played all pre-season.

[Ibleedbrown]

12 hours ago, LondonBrown said:

Haha I've long wondered what limey meant as an insult but limey train puller? This, I need to know. 

Clearly it's a compliment. It means you are free from scurvy, and strong enough to pull trains

l'm sure l'm not alone in saying l envy that. Scurvy really sucks.

[Tour2ma]

 

5 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Its not a rock concert where AD/DC opened for Coldplay.

Did that actually happen? Would be right up there with Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks opening for Steppenwolf... (Fall, '71 in Cleveland Public Auditorium... it wasn't pretty...).

[The Gipper]

5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

 

Did that actually happen? Would be right up there with Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks opening for Steppenwolf... (Fall, '71 in Cleveland Public Auditorium... it wasn't pretty...).

James Taylor opening for The Who.   The crowd booed him.  Pete Townshend admonished the crowd for doing so.  (I still would have booed James Taylor)

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

 

Did that actually happen? Would be right up there with Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks opening for Steppenwolf... (Fall, '71 in Cleveland Public Auditorium... it wasn't pretty...).

Yup, remember that fiasco- I was there. Dan and the band got booed off the stage. 

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

James Taylor opening for The Who.   The crowd booed him.  Pete Townshend admonished the crowd for doing so.  (I still would have booed James Taylor)

If that was the same one I was at you forgot the opening warm up band. The James Gang with Joe Walsh. Taylor was sandwiched in the middle. BTW, The Who put on an incredible show. The energy had everyone standing the entire concert. 

There were some strange combos that time frame. Before the Eagles hit it big they were warmup bands for groups like Humble Pie, and (I think) Black Sabbath. 

[The Gipper]

2 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Yup, remember that fiasco- I was there. Dan and the band got booed off the stage. 

If that was the same one I was at you forgot the opening warm up band. The James Gang with Joe Walsh. Taylor was sandwiched in the middle. BTW, The Who put on an incredible show. The energy had everyone standing the entire concert. 

There were some strange combos that time frame. Before the Eagles hit it big they were warmup bands for groups like Humble Pie, and (I think) Black Sabbath. 

I was not there....I just heard about it. I think the promotors screwed up by putting the milktoast Taylor in the middle of those two acts, if that is what happened.  If they had lead off with Taylor it would not have been so bad for him. 

Nevertheless...I was never much of a James Taylor fan, so I wasn't going to cry any tears for him.

[Tour2ma]

39 minutes ago, hoorta said:

There were some strange combos that time frame. Before the Eagles hit it big they were warmup bands for groups like Humble Pie, and (I think) Black Sabbath. 

Eagles also opened for The Mahavishnu Orchestra/ Yes... and it worked that time in the Rubber Bowl.

38 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Yup, remember that fiasco- I was there. Dan and the band got booed off the stage.

Ditto... and then Billy Bass told us off...

Sat a few rows up in the right hand balcony maybe a third of the way away from the stage.

Plus as in your James Taylor example Dan Hicks was the 2nd act following Redbone who had revved the audience up just a bit too much for Dan... not that I was a Dan fan in any case.

[Ghoolie]

18 hours ago, LondonBrown said:

Haha I've long wondered what limey meant as an insult but limey train puller? This, I need to know. 

it IS a compliment. You don't know why limey is an insult? Back in the day, English and Irish sailors suffered skeletal and muscular weakness due to a lack of vitamin C. They were given lemons and limes and the problem corrected itself. The name "limey" was used to make fun. Train puller? It means you pull a train.......... a long line of guys....taking turns to fuck you in the ass.

I say this, of course with the utmost respect for you. :-)

[Ghoolie]

7 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Something I've said since the day we drafted him, it's not all about Garrett. It's about how much attention he draws away from the rest of the defenders so they can make the plays. So far that has worked well in preseason. This UNIT just needs to keep playing the way they played all pre-season.

Total apologetic horseshit. If you fucking think a #1  #1 edge rushe was not drafted to make plays then you are a bigger jackoff than I thought.

Nobody is having to double team Garrett. He isn't drawing shit away from anyone. Joe Green, LC Greenwood, and Arrowhead Holmes didn't "draw" jac shit. THey killed QBs. Garrett was drafted to kill QBs, So far, he has been neutralized without having to be double teamed. This guy B L O W S.

[Clevfan4life]

I have a feeling we're gonna have to bring in a FA DE next year or draft another one fairly high.....ogbah and nassib still dont look all that legit to me. Nassib did get stronger, insaw him stand up a double team yesterday against the bears. So good job out of him but his pass rush still sucks. He didnt learn any new moves. Still has no power moves around the edge. Its kruger all over again except kruger at least had an elite bull when he came from blt.

Both ogbah and nassib either just bull or try to slap and swim around a wide edge. Garrets the only clev edge rusher who tried to cut down the pocket. Oh well. 

[Clevfan4life]

6 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

, So far, he has been neutralized without having to be double teamed. This guy B L O W S.

Ur not watching the games he hasnt been neutralized. So far he's the only edge rusher on the team getting in the qb's space. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, boo fagley said:

No, but basically unknown Lynard Skynards first big show was opening for the Who. Skynard almost stole the show.

No, that would not have happened at a Who concert.  Not saying they weren't good, but they would not have "stolen the show".

I have been to a concert where the opening act "stole the show":    KISS was the backup band to the New York Dolls. Allen Theater in Cleveland. Yep, only about 3000 in attendance.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, boo fagley said:

Who, Grateful Dead, Hendrix and Janis Joplin all went on before the Mamas and Pappas.

The Mamas and Pappas were OK, but how they pulled that one off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_Pop_Festival

The Mamas and Papas organized the whole Monterey Pop Festival.....THAT is why they got to be in a position to be the "headlining" act. 

[hoorta]

41 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

No, that would not have happened at a Who concert.  Not saying they weren't good, but they would not have "stolen the show".

I have been to a concert where the opening act "stole the show":    KISS was the backup band to the New York Dolls. Allen Theater in Cleveland. Yep, only about 3000 in attendance.

Since we've gotten off on a tangent talking about concerts-  #1 greatest on my all time list? Allen Theater? Row #20- Pink Floyd before anyone really knew who they were. "Careful with that ax, Eugene" That Who concert at Public Hall is probably #2. 

Biggest disappointment, not seeing Jimi before he died.  

[The Gipper]

59 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Since we've gotten off on a tangent talking about concerts-  #1 greatest on my all time list? Allen Theater? Row #20- Pink Floyd before anyone really knew who they were. "Careful with that ax, Eugene" That Who concert at Public Hall is probably #2. 

Biggest disappointment, not seeing Jimi before he died.  

For me, maybe seeing Bruce from the 6th row, Akron Civic Theater.  Also possibly Alice Cooper, Rubber Bowl....right up front , no more than like 15 feet from the front of the stage. Always  better  when you have front row seats. No matter how good the concert is, if you are in the nosebleed section its just not as good it seems.

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Ur not watching the games he hasnt been neutralized. So far he's the only edge rusher on the team getting in the qb's space. 

Apparently if it's not a sack, it does not count...

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Since we've gotten off on a tangent talking about concerts-  #1 greatest on my all time list? Allen Theater? Row #20- Pink Floyd before anyone really knew who they were. "Careful with that ax, Eugene" That Who concert at Public Hall is probably #2.

30 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

For me, maybe seeing Bruce from the 6th row, Akron Civic Theater.  Also possibly Alice Cooper, Rubber Bowl....right up front , no more than like 15 feet from the front of the stage. Always  better  when you have front row seats. No matter how good the concert is, if you are in the nosebleed section its just not as good it seems.

In the small world vein.... I was at that Alice concert in Akron, but back in the stands. Was ~20 back on the field center stage for the Yes concert... which was one of my Top 5.

5. Bruce opened for Wishbone Ash at the Allen Theater... won the tix on WMMS plus two copies of Wishbone Ash's double live LP, Live Dates.

4. Alice in the Public Auditorium... about row 15 just a little right of center... The J. Geils Band opened.

3. Yes - Maha - Eagles in the Rubber Bowl.

2. Santana in the Public Aud... decent floor seats... we were standing on the backs of the seats... I can't remember the opening act.

1. David Bowie's American concert debut... Cleveland Music Hall... the Ziggy tour.

[The Gipper]

14 hours ago, boo fagley said:

Ive heard KISS was a good show.

Skynard rocked the house.

Skynyrd may have, but no one has done it like The Who.

[Mudfly]

On 9/1/2017 at 1:42 PM, hoorta said:

Yup, remember that fiasco- I was there. Dan and the band got booed off the stage. 

 

I once saw the Outlaws at JCU and there was a guy named Charlie Wiener(I think) who got unmercifully booed off the stage....he sucked bad and was happy to see him leave,  but I still felt for the guy....

[TexasAg1969]

28 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

I once saw the Outlaws at JCU and there was a guy named Charlie Wiener(I think) who got unmercifully booed off the stage....he sucked bad and was happy to see him leave,  but I still felt for the guy....

Saw Johnny Rivers in concert in his prime with a full orchestra. Great live concert.

A few years later saw him again live with a two man backup. They played a 5 miin. medley of his hits and then went into some stuff he/they had written and got booed right off the same stage he had been so great at those few years before. Stunk up the joint so bad even the medley sucked.

[Tour2ma]

I bought Tedeshi Trucks 2016 CD release after seeing them on ACL... good stuff, but recording's SQ is "off"...

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Saw Johnny Rivers in concert in his prime with a full orchestra. Great live concert.

A few years later saw him again live with a two man backup. They played a 5 miin. medley of his hits and then went into some stuff he/they had written and got booed right off the same stage he had been so great at those few years before.

Sounds like you went to "A Garden Party."