11 Browns protest

[Westside Steve]

If this is Superfluous because of other protest threads (but this one is specifically about our own guys) free to delete but here's my thoughts. I don't really begrudge anybody his right to protest even though I truly believe that if the protests were not politically correct there would be hell to pay but still for me it makes it much harder as a fan to sit there and cheer and wish well for a group of people who so obviously hate me.

Aside from that if these players are truly offended by the way "their people" are being treated in this world it seems to me they should go out among the community and encourage those same people to get an education to strive to better themselves and to eschew the drugs and violence and poverty their allowed those communities to devolve into. There's celebrity certainly affords than that ability to some extent. 

I'm more disappointed than angry that it's my team and I really don't want us, the Cleveland Browns, to become the poster boys for racial hatred.

WSS

[JAFBF]

Team came down to Earth this week.

So now we need to support a bunch of overpaid, misinformed, disrespectful, Political Activist Athletes?

Seriously?

This Team isn't that good or interesting enough to put up with more Political BS, if I want that I'll just turn on the News.

Got news for ya - I don't watch MSM anymore - they've shown their true colors, and now this.

Too many sacrifices made by too many to enable these folks to even be where they are . . .

Seems we didn't Draft the high Character Players everyone thought - really have to wonder why even waste my time with this anymore, it's certainly not as much as it used to be.

 

[MLD Woody]

Oh geez

 

You can stop being a fan. It's ok. We won't try and stop you.

[tiamat63]

Yeah, Deshone Kizer "hates you". Colquitt hates you too, apparently. 

For all those that just can't hang around because they have little better to do than be 'offended...' it's been real.   See you for the draft, I'm sure. 

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

If this is Superfluous because of other protest threads (but this one is specifically about our own guys) free to delete but here's my thoughts. I don't really begrudge anybody his right to protest even though I truly believe that if the protests were not politically correct there would be hell to pay but still for me it makes it much harder as a fan to sit there and cheer and wish well for a group of people who so obviously hate me.

Aside from that if these players are truly offended by the way "their people" are being treated in this world it seems to me they should go out among the community and encourage those same people to get an education to strive to better themselves and to eschew the drugs and violence and poverty their allowed those communities to devolve into. There's celebrity certainly affords than that ability to some extent. 

I'm more disappointed than angry that it's my team and I really don't want us, the Cleveland Browns, to become the poster boys for racial hatred.

WSS

Well, a couple of things:  I think that many, not all, pro athletes do indeed go out into their communities and encourage people to get an education and better themselves and eschew drugs and violence (though....how does one eschew poverty?).  Maybe not every one of them, maybe not enough of them, but many do.  Also....I don't see how this action by the Browns causes them to become poster boys for racial hatred...unless you are saying that people are exhibiting racial hatred TOWARD them for engaging in this peaceful protest. Now, that I can believe...as it has been exhibited even on this board.  I am the understanding that their protests are an attempt to seek to unify people, no?

The one criticism I may have of these protests is that they seem to be directed at a nefarious subject:  inequality.   I mean, what is that?  It is too vague, too intangible...and never solvable.  The original protest by Kaepernick at least seemed aimed at a specific complaint:  unwarranted killing of young black men by police. (and I think that, while the concept of objecting to this matter is appropriate....Kaepernick went too far with some of his methods of protest....i.e. wearing of the "pig" socks and wearing the Castro shirt....since Castro was a tyrant....and Kaep seems oblivious to that fact).  But these protests seem to have gone beyond that as a particular purpose...and, again, have reached into the level of vagary.

[Tour2ma]

11? 12 were on knee with another 3 standing with hands on pads of the kneeling...

Going to cause some real angst for some here... good... hopefully producing more sole searching than has been displayed thus far.

[OldBrownsFan]

14 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Yeah, Deshone Kizer "hates you". Colquitt hates you too, apparently. 

For all those that just can't hang around because they have little better to do than be 'offended...' it's been real.   See you for the draft, I'm sure. 

I am offended Tiam but I also am offended at fans who talk and joke around during the national anthem and don't take a minute of their time to stand and respectfully honor our country and what it stands for. The players in my opinion were respectfully being disrespectful by praying during the national anthem. Normally I really like seeing players pray either before the game , during the game (such as when a player is injured )and after the game when players of both teams gather together to pray but not when our national anthem is being played.  

[Westside Steve]

41 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Yeah, Deshone Kizer "hates you". Colquitt hates you too, apparently. 

For all those that just can't hang around because they have little better to do than be 'offended...' it's been real.   See you for the draft, I'm sure. 

Knowing what a stickler you are for details Deshone Kizer and Colquitt didn't kneel.

Of course if you believe that Isaiah Crowell loves you then cheer him on and wear his jersey.

And I doubt that anyone would support a white player making some sort of an incendiary "gesture" to protest violence in the Inner City. Just a hunch.

WSS

[tiamat63]

Ahhh so hand on the shoulder is good so long as we're not kneeling?    So Devalve kneeling in prayer then - HE must hate you, no?

I think people wouldn't give a flying fuck about a white protesting anything.  Just like they shouldn't now.   

 

The bitching about it is what gets me.   Do you support it? Cool.   Don't support it? Great.   Indifferent or don't care? Even better.   I've seen this board, the Browns Facebook page and the NFL page flooded with comments that have overwhelmed reasonable football talk.    It's as bad as the SJ crowd that spammed the NFL page when the Kaep thing started.   Youre all a bunch of loons feigning hurt.

 

[wargograw]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Yeah, Deshone Kizer "hates you". Colquitt hates you too, apparently. 

For all those that just can't hang around because they have little better to do than be 'offended...' it's been real.   See you for the draft, I'm sure. 

Yeah, conservatives are the ones that get offended about everything. Okie dokie. Meanwhile the left gets mad if you call someone with a penis a man. Makes sense. 

[domcucch1994]

Jesus Christ.. They took a knee..

It's not like they pulled down their pants and took a shit on the American flag.. Who cares?

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, domcucch1994 said:

Jesus Christ.. They took a knee..

It's not like they pulled down their pants and took a shit on the American flag.. Who cares?

Yea, no players have done that....but those guys marching with their swastikas and stars and bars together in Charlottesville did exacty that, imo.

[Westside Steve]

8 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Ahhh so hand on the shoulder is good so long as we're not kneeling?    So Devalve kneeling in prayer then - HE must hate you, no?

I think people wouldn't give a flying fuck about a white protesting anything.  Just like they shouldn't now.   

 

The bitching about it is what gets me.   Do you support it? Cool.   Don't support it? Great.   Indifferent or don't care? Even better.   I've seen this board, the Browns Facebook page and the NFL page flooded with comments that have overwhelmed reasonable football talk.    It's as bad as the SJ crowd that spammed the NFL page when the Kaep thing started.   Youre all a bunch of loons feigning hurt.

 

Actually when you get done seething over this just remember my point, I'm only a fan. I read for these guys because of territorial loyalty for the most part. I like musicians and actors Etc because of their talent or the art they produce. Or athletes because they perform well for my city. I'm an Entertainer by profession but I would imagine that I would rightly lose friends and fans if I began every performance but insulting the largest part of my audience. Who knows, a few of them might think it's cool but... I think you get the idea.

 

WSS

[tiamat63]

7 minutes ago, wargograw said:

Yeah, conservatives are the ones that get offended about everything. Okie dokie. Meanwhile the left gets mad if you call someone with a penis a man. Makes sense. 

Yeah and those people are fucked in the head as well.  What's your point, babygirl?

[tiamat63]

2 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Actually when you get done seething over this just remember my point, I'm only a fan. I read for these guys because of territorial loyalty for the most part. I like musicians and actors Etc because of their talent or the art they produce. Or athletes because they perform well for my city. I'm an Entertainer by profession but I would imagine that I would rightly lose friends and fans if I began every performance but insulting the largest part of my audience. Who knows, a few of them might think it's cool but... I think you get the idea.

 

WSS

 

So Seth Devalve insulted you and hates you?   Is that correct?

 

Edit:  you made the thread and I responded. Whom is "seething" here?

[wargograw]

Just now, tiamat63 said:

Yeah and those people are fucked in the head as well.  What's your point, babygirl?

That you are more mad at those who are offended in response than those with the original offense (the protesting players). Don't act like you're neutral. 

[Westside Steve]

4 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Yea, no players have done that....but those guys marching with their swastikas and stars and bars together in Charlottesville did exacty that, imo.

And shouldn't you have the right to decide whether or not you want to support the businesses that those people work at?

Or do you imagine you would say well that's fine they have freedom of belief. Knowing you I would imagine that option is unlikely.

WSS

[tiamat63]

Just now, wargograw said:

That you are more mad at those who are offended in response than those with the original offense (the protesting players). Don't act like you're neutral. 

 

I'm not mad at any of them.  I'm tired of the crying from both sides as I've illustrated.  The Kaep supporters and the fans for their equally bitchy response. 

[OldBrownsFan]

Just now, tiamat63 said:

 

I'm not mad at any of them.  I'm tired of the crying from both sides as I've illustrated.  The Kaep supporters and the fans for their equally bitchy response. 

It is a distraction. A distraction a team that went 1-15 last season doesn't need. Hue Jackson said just a few weeks ago he respected the players right to protest but preferred they would not do it during the national anthem. So much for some of the players listening to their coach.

[The Gipper]

Just now, Westside Steve said:

And shouldn't you have the right to decide whether or not you want to support the businesses that those people work at?

Or do you imagine you would say well that's fine they have freedom of belief. Knowing you I would imagine that option is unlikely.

WSS

Then you clearly don't know me after 50 years. (but actually, I think you do) These Nazis/KKK etc. DO have their freedom to believe their beliefs (you know I believe that...you are just trying to stir up shit).  And you also know that I believe that YOU have the right to call these people stupid cocksuckers/asshole racists.  And let's assume for a moment that that is exactly what you think about them.

As to supporting their businesses? I don't know...I suspect that if they were selling me burgers or widgets I would put my personal self interest above that....unless for some reason they spew their hate and venom as part and parcel of the business I am conducting with them. Example, while I am not doing criminal work, I do believe these guys, if they commit a crime in furtherance of their hate mongering (such as running over a woman with their car) are entitled to a full and fair defense. But that does not mean that I personally have to be the one to defend them. For a couple of reasons: 1. because I am not doing defense work and they would need more competent counsel, and 2.  I would be under no legal obligation to defend them if I felt they were objectionable persons.  They are entitled to their defense...just not from me.   (note:  who was it that advocated for these groups right to demonstrate and protest? the ACLU):

[Westside Steve]

Oh I think you believe that the Nazis have a right to believe if they wish. I think players who hate white people or cops or whatever I've got a right to their depends whether or not I agree. I just asked you if you would be more or less likely to support and frequently shop at a business that you knew was owned or operated by neo-nazis? Regardless of their constitutional right to their beliefs. And I'm betting you wouldn't.

Nor would I for what it's worth. I would probably not frequent the Ku Klux Klan microbrewery.

WSS

[The Gipper]

19 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Oh I think you believe that the Nazis have a right to believe if they wish. I think players who hate white people or cops or whatever I've got a right to their depends whether or not I agree. I just asked you if you would be more or less likely to support and frequently shop at a business that you knew was owned or operated by neo-nazis? Regardless of their constitutional right to their beliefs. And I'm betting you wouldn't.

Nor would I for what it's worth. I would probably not frequent the Ku Klux Klan microbrewery.

WSS

Like I said...it would depend on the nature of the product.  If it were innocuous, I may buy whatever.  But like in your case...if a KKK brewery were in town....and they advertised the fact that they were that, probably not. 

Have you ever had a business that you would not do business for some reason?

I heard of this instance of where a so called "Christian family" went into a restaurant, and instead of leaving the waitress a tip, they left her a nasty note about how they were against the fact that she was a lesbian.  It seemed like phony self righteous bullshit. They didn't refuse to eat the food or pay for the meal....they just lectured the waitress. First off...I don't know how they knew she was a lesbian...did she have "lesbian" stamped on her forehead? Did she mention it to them? Or did they just assume from her appearance that she was a lesbian?  More likely they just wanted an excuse to be cheap ass motherfuckers and not leave a tip. I mean, I am the kind of guy that even if a waiter was wearing his white robe and hood with KKK emblems on it, if he served me, I would still tip him.

[Ibleedbrown]

12 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Like I said...it would depend on the nature of the product.  If it were innocuous, I may buy whatever.  But like in your case...if a KKK brewery were in town....and they advertised the fact that they were that, probably not. 

I'll take a black and tan please.

[The Gipper]

10 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

I'll take a black and tan please.

The KKK brewery would consider that miscegenation and refuse to serve it to you!!

And they would only serve "white" pizza.

[jrb12711]

3 hours ago, JAFBF said:

Team came down to Earth this week.

So now we need to support a bunch of overpaid, misinformed, disrespectful, Political Activist Athletes?

Seriously?

This Team isn't that good or interesting enough to put up with more Political BS, if I want that I'll just turn on the News.

Got news for ya - I don't watch MSM anymore - they've shown their true colors, and now this.

Too many sacrifices made by too many to enable these folks to even be where they are . . .

Seems we didn't Draft the high Character Players everyone thought - really have to wonder why even waste my time with this anymore, it's certainly not as much as it used to be.

 

 

No, you don't. If you feel strongly enough against what they did (which is supported by the Browns organization and coaches) then don't watch or watch another team. No one is strapping you into a fucking chair and feeding this to you. We won't miss you.

You guys are some of the biggest whiners I've ever encountered. 

[tiamat63]

10 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

The KKK brewery would consider that miscegenation and refuse to serve it to you!!

And they would only serve "white" pizza.

 

Yeah but white pizza is fucking delicious. Even the most hardcore BLM mainliner would admit that.  

 

... and how I'm hungry. 

[RoyceRolls]

4 hours ago, JAFBF said:

 

Too many sacrifices made by too many to enable these folks to even be where they are . . .

Seems we didn't Draft the high Character Players everyone thought - really have to wonder why even waste my time with this anymore, it's certainly not as much as it used to be.

Those sacrifices were made so people could retain their freedom and the right to express themselves when they are disappointed in their country.  You can have your fill of blind servitude and rah-rah-siss-boom-bah nationalist dogma in North Korea.  

Kneeling during a theme song isn't disrespecting the troops, sending troops to fight and die for corporate profits is disrespect. A militarized police force murdering citizens at the drop of a hat is disrespectful to those who made the ultimate sacrifice for freedom.  Do you stand every time you watch the national anthem on tv? Or do you sit there with a beer in your hand?

[Zombo]

No problem with it whatsoever. I guess I'm not easily offended. Love my Country. I'll stand. If you feel you need to kneel in light of an issue that is important to you, or you support a teammate who kneels, God bless ya. Let's play some football.

 

Z

[FALCON7]

Pretty sad and pathetic that so many people are worried about how a Pro Athlete acts during the playing of the Anthem before a fucking sporting event, than what is really going on in this Country...    I guess I'm a draft dodger/Un-American, because I didn't enlist on my 18th birthday in 1971 to go fight in Vietnam. 

[The Gipper]

18 minutes ago, FALCON7 said:

Pretty sad and pathetic that so many people are worried about how a Pro Athlete acts during the playing of the Anthem before a fucking sporting event, than what is really going on in this Country...    I guess I'm a draft dodger/Un-American, because I didn't enlist on my 18th birthday in 1971 to go fight in Vietnam. 

Well, here is your chance. Didn't they just announce last night a ramp up in the numbers of troops to be sent to Afghanistan?  We can go volunteer (my 18th birthday occured just the year before yours did.   I hope to win my second lottery this week:  635 mill.  The first was when I got my 292 draft lottery number)