Kaepernick supporters call for NFL boycott

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Call me when an NFL player stands up and does the Nazi salute during the national anthem.

WSS

If you are saying that one equates to the other,  that would be mind bogglingly foolish.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Prayer is not said during the National Anthem, which I'm sure you are aware of Lt Dan. 

Again, I ask the question:  why is the National Anthem played before sporting events?  When I go to the cineplex, they don't play the national anthem before the movie. If I were to go say, to a concert at Blossom, Severence Hall....to the opera, to a ballet, to see a play, to see The Rolling Stones or Kanye West or whomever the flavor of the day is musically, they don't play the National Anthem.

A sporting event is just another entertainment venue.  Why must the Anthem be played there and not at all these other events.  In fact, I don't think that it is played at all that many sporting events.  Do they play it before a golf tournament is teed off?  A tennis match? A boxing match? (I don't know if they do or don't...do any of you?)

And...since this forum is just entertainment to me....why does not the anthem automatically play when I log on to this site.

Again...just curious why it is a tradition (mandatory it seems) at one form of entertainment while not at any other.

[Tour2ma]

So looks like Kaep would fit right in?

[OldBrownsFan]

5 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Again, I ask the question:  why is the National Anthem played before sporting events?  When I go to the cineplex, they don't play the national anthem before the movie. If I were to go say, to a concert at Blossom, Severence Hall....to the opera, to a ballet, to see a play, to see The Rolling Stones or Kanye West or whomever the flavor of the day is musically, they don't play the National Anthem.

A sporting event is just another entertainment venue.  Why must the Anthem be played there and not at all these other events.  In fact, I don't think that it is played at all that many sporting events.  Do they play it before a golf tournament is teed off?  A tennis match? A boxing match? (I don't know if they do or don't...do any of you?)

And...since this forum is just entertainment to me....why does not the anthem automatically play when I log on to this site.

Again...just curious why it is a tradition (mandatory it seems) at one form of entertainment while not at any other.

Here is my guess and it is just a guess. Because of the competition of the teams and players representing cities and states maybe the national anthem was played as a reminder that we are all united as American citizens. My dislike for the Pittsburgh Steelers only goes so far. They are not my real enemy. Maybe the National Anthem is a reminder of that at the beginning of the competition? Wild guess.

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Prayer is not said during the National Anthem, which I'm sure you are aware of Lt Dan. 

I don't mind a prayer during the National Anthem, but they damn sure better be standing with hand over heart for "Texas, Our Texas".

 

[wargograw]

I am dying to see a white player kneel for all the abortions in this country. The intellectual contortions from the left would be hilarious. 

[The Gipper]

Here is a link to an article that perhaps explains some of the link between sports and the anthem:

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/6957582/the-history-national-anthem-sports-espn-magazine

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, wargograw said:

I am dying to see a white player kneel for all the abortions in this country. The intellectual contortions from the left would be hilarious. 

Are you really dying to see that?  Isn't that what Tebow did?  And if we are quantifying hilarity....how much more or less hilarious would it be than what is happening with this?  Do you have a "hilarity scale" which can be referred to?

[wargograw]

2 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

Or they can continue to keep exercising their right to peacefully protest.

And we can keep exercising our right to call them losers. 

[wargograw]

Yes; no; lots; no. HTH

[The Gipper]

4 minutes ago, wargograw said:

And we can keep exercising our right to call them losers. 

And yet, we have fought wars, from the revolution to today's conflicts to preserve the rights of these losers to have their peaceful protests. I guess the guys that fought and died in those wars were losers too for putting their lives on the line for a bunch of losers. So keep exercising your right to call all of these losers, loser.

[wargograw]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

And yet, we have fought wars, from the revolution to today's conflicts to preserve the rights of these losers to have their peaceful protests. I guess the guys that fought and died in those wars were losers too for putting their lives on the line for a bunch of losers. So keep exercising your right to call all of these losers, loser.

If we all adopted the standard of these guys, they'd have no country in which these rights are protected. They're welcome. 

[The Gipper]

12 minutes ago, wargograw said:

If we all adopted the standard of these guys, they'd have no country in which these rights are protected. They're welcome. 

And If we adopted your standard,  we would have no country in which your rights would be protected if you disagreed with the powers that be.  So, you too are welcome.

[Tour2ma]

22 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

The NBA and US soccer teams have rules requiring players stand during the anthem. If you want to protest there are better ways to protest than to offend others who respect the flag and what it stands for.

NBA players have taken to linking arms. Is that OK? "US Soccer" represents the US, so if you have a problem with the US not playing for it would seem to be the way to go. Any other suggestions on "better ways"?

Also just out of curiosity besides the 50 states and 13 original colonies, what does the flag stand for? And fair warning... if "freedom" makes your list anywhere, let alone at #1, your inconsistency will be pointed out.

5 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

There probably will be some people who boycott some kind of a backlash but not because a no-talent bum like Kaepernick is out of work but because of players openly hostile to the great bulk of their fans. It sucks and it's really unfortunate.

I'll let the "no-talent bum" slide, but do you have any data to support your "great bulk" claim? I mean this ain't NASCAR...

[miktoxic]

Well didn't Maurice Smith point out that there will be a walk by 2019.....not because of some players kneeling national but because of money.

Go ahead support the players that turn their back on our national heritage. Remember the soldiers that died for their right to do so.

Most people who say what you said never even picked up a rock to do anything to defend this country let alone a uniform and a gun.

The Browns locker room is now a 'safe space'. 

[USFBrown]

13 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

NBA players have taken to linking arms. Is that OK? "US Soccer" represents the US, so if you have a problem with the US not playing for it would seem to be the way to go. Any other suggestions on "better ways"?

Also just out of curiosity besides the 50 states and 13 original colonies, what does the flag stand for? And fair warning... if "freedom" makes your list anywhere, let alone at #1, your inconsistency will be pointed out.

I'll let the "no-talent bum" slide, but do you have any data to support your "great bulk" claim? I mean this ain't NASCAR...

Freedom doesn't mean your actions do not have ramifications.  The entire country was founded on freedom from a tyrannical government.  Not freedom from judgement or freedom to do whatever you damn well please.  

They are free to protest without ramification from the government, so long as it does not impact other people's freedoms.  But they are not free from ramifications of their employers or fans.  

 

[Tour2ma]

35 minutes ago, wargograw said:

I am dying to see a white player kneel for all the abortions in this country.

Why would he have to be white?

4 hours ago, USFBrown said:

With the protests last year I stopped watching all games except the Browns.  I'm probably in the minority here but I'm not watching any more Browns games until this stops.  I respect their right to protest but I also 100% disagree with it.  I will not support an organization that allows their employees to openly disrespect my country.

It's also extremely distasteful to try to and use religion as a veil to protest.  Pathetic.  No one is fooled that these guys are just praying during the Anthem.

So when we played teams that included kneelers last season, did you watch?

And just to clarify... do you respect their right to protest or their right to protest in any manner that does not offend you?

As for the praying... looked like what they were doing to me... so I guess I was "fooled". Give your apparent reverence for prayer it seems to me that no other, alternate "activity" could be more "tasteful".

[The Gipper]

8 minutes ago, USFBrown said:

Freedom doesn't mean your actions do not have ramifications.  The entire country was founded on freedom from a tyrannical government.  Not freedom from judgement or freedom to do whatever you damn well please.  

They are free to protest without ramification from the government, so long as it does not impact other people's freedoms.  But they are not free from ramifications of their employers or fans.  

 

Freedom is just another word for: nothing left to lose. Nothin' don't mean nothin' if it ain't free.

[USFBrown]

1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

Why would he have to be white?

So when we played teams that included kneelers last season, did you watch?

And just to clarify... do you respect their right to protest or their right to protest in any manner that does not offend you?

As for the praying... looked like what they were doing to me... so I guess I was "fooled". Give your apparent reverence for prayer it seems to me that no other, alternate "activity" could be more "tasteful".

I can see where you can point out the hypocrisy of me watching while other teams knelt and I'm fine with that.  We all have our limits.  

I respect their right to protest, even if it offends me.  The government has no right to block protesting so long as it does not interfere with others freedoms.  Whether it offends me, you, or anyone else.  That is how it should be.

Therefore, it should be the same that I reserve my right not to agree with how they protest and in response I will no longer support what I deem as disrespectful.  

Spare me of the prayer veil.  Yes it looks like praying and I believe that they did pray.  But if you want to sell me that they just up and decided to pray and not realize this would come off as a quasi protest to sitting for the anthem then I don't believe we can have further discussion on this as we at am impasse.  

I respect your opinions and views (and generally agree with what you say).  Here we just differ on our opinions. 

 

[Unsympathetic]

On 8/13/2017 at 3:22 PM, D Bone said:

As a proud American, I care.... You should too.

If you're actually as American as you say, you should support his right to say what he wants.   "Freedom" is only measured by your reaction to what you DISAGREE with.. not what you agree with.

Your support for the KKK is today not the norm in this country - but that belief used to be commonly supported.  

How exactly would one go about changing any belief if everything today disbelieved was "Un-American"?

[Tour2ma]

12 minutes ago, miktoxic said:

Well didn't Maurice Smith point out that there will be a walk by 2019.....not because of some players kneeling national but because of money.

Go ahead support the players that turn their back on our national heritage. Remember the soldiers that died for their right to do so.

Most people who say what you said never even picked up a rock to do anything to defend this country let alone a uniform and a gun.

The Browns locker room is now a 'safe space'. 

Walk out? As in strike? May well be in the cards when the current CBA expires. Not sure what that has to do with our discussion.

Don't need your permission, but thanks... I will support the players' right to protest. As for our "national heritage"... is that what you think they are protesting? Then you urge them to not exercise a right men died to protect? Do you really want to trump the fallens' sacrifice with your indignation?

No... I did not "serve". But the vast majority of those who I know have, realize that their service did not give them the right to pick and chose which of my rights they protected. And they never lorded over me with a service-generated sense of super-patriotism.

Maybe over beer sometime we can compare notes over how many times in our country's history it has gone to war over its defense.

5 minutes ago, USFBrown said:

Freedom doesn't mean your actions do not have ramifications.  The entire country was founded on freedom from a tyrannical government.  Not freedom from judgement or freedom to do whatever you damn well please.  

They are free to protest without ramification from the government, so long as it does not impact other people's freedoms.  But they are not free from ramifications of their employers or fans. 

We are all free to judge within the limits of our religious convictions. Laws insure that none of can do what "we damn well please."

Yes, fans or employers can band together and ramify to their hearts' content within the law, but even employers can and have been challenged in the courts to show the harm of their employees' speech or actions that have been prohibited.

[OldBrownsFan]

49 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

NBA players have taken to linking arms. Is that OK? "US Soccer" represents the US, so if you have a problem with the US not playing for it would seem to be the way to go. Any other suggestions on "better ways"?

Also just out of curiosity besides the 50 states and 13 original colonies, what does the flag stand for? And fair warning... if "freedom" makes your list anywhere, let alone at #1, your inconsistency will be pointed out.

I'll let the "no-talent bum" slide, but do you have any data to support your "great bulk" claim? I mean this ain't NASCAR...

Protesting during the national anthem is divisive no matter how you slice it. A better way would be like what we saw in Boston over the weekend with 40,000 people peacefully protesting against the couple hundred torch carrying racists in Charlottesville. Overcoming evil with good is the way to go. Positive steps such as  community service, working with charities, working with police departments to discuss grievances, I see lots of positive ways to protest. You can tear down the country or work to make it better. 

The flag and the national anthem stand for my country and I honor that. I would put freedom in there and will bite here Tour. Where is the inconsistency?

 

 

[Tour2ma]

24 minutes ago, USFBrown said:

I can see where you can point out the hypocrisy of me watching while other teams knelt and I'm fine with that.  We all have our limits.  

I respect their right to protest, even if it offends me.  The government has no right to block protesting so long as it does not interfere with others freedoms.  Whether it offends me, you, or anyone else.  That is how it should be.

Therefore, it should be the same that I reserve my right not to agree with how they protest and in response I will no longer support what I deem as disrespectful.  

Spare me of the prayer veil.  Yes it looks like praying and I believe that they did pray.  But if you want to sell me that they just up and decided to pray and not realize this would come off as a quasi protest to sitting for the anthem then I don't believe we can have further discussion on this as we at am impasse.  

I respect your opinions and views (and generally agree with what you say).  Here we just differ on our opinions.

Perfect... and back at you.

For the record I was simply exploring a potential point of inconsistency and was curious as to how you resolved it.

As for their praying... no, not trying sell you that  or they were using it as cover to their protest... it clearly was a protest... nothing quasi about it.

[The Gipper]

Just now, OldBrownsFan said:

Protesting during the national anthem is divisive no matter how you slice it.

That is kind of the point of any protest...isn't it? To upset the persons who support what you are protesting against? 

 

. A better way would be like what we saw in Boston over the weekend with 40,000 people peacefully protesting against the couple hundred torch carrying racists in Charlottesville. Overcoming evil with good is the way to go. Positive steps such as  community service, working with charities, working with police departments to discuss grievances, I see lots of positive ways to protest. You can tear down the country or work to make it better. 

And yet...all that is done and NO attention paid to it.  One point of any protest is to seek attention for/against the cause you are dealing with. 

The flag and the national anthem stand for my country and I honor that. I would put freedom in there and will bite here Tour. Where is the inconsistency?

The question then is:  what does the country stand for.  You honor the country..but to what ends? Freedom, yes. Freedom to protest. Freedom to address grievances. 

As Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis advised, in his famous Whitney v. California opinion in 1927, "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."

 

 

 

[Tour2ma]

9 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Protesting during the national anthem is divisive no matter how you slice it. A better way would be like what we saw in Boston over the weekend with 40,000 people peacefully protesting against the couple hundred torch carrying racists in Charlottesville. Overcoming evil with good is the way to go. Positive steps such as  community service, working with charities, working with police departments to discuss grievances, I see lots of positive ways to protest. You can tear down the country or work to make it better. 

The flag and the national anthem stand for my country and I honor that. I would put freedom in there and will bite here Tour. Where is the inconsistency?

All the steps you list would never be noticed. NFL players have a stage.

The inconsistency is that their freedom to use that stage is something you would, at minimum, prefer they not do.

 

Here's a thought for you and all that share your view... rather than act to suppress their right to protest, act to understand and eliminate the condition(s) that prompt their protest and thus eliminate their need to do so.

 

And now back to football...

[USFBrown]

7 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Perfect... and back at you.

For the record I was simply exploring a potential point of inconsistency and was curious as to how you resolved it.

As for their praying... no, not trying sell you that  or they were using it as cover to their protest... it clearly was a protest... nothing quasi about it.

I've got nothing but respect for you.  I'm all for good civil conversations and hearing other's opinions.  Even those i don't agree with and I can understand why other's don't agree with mine.  

[OldBrownsFan]

7 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

All the steps you list would never be noticed. NFL players have a stage.

The inconsistency is that their freedom to use that stage is something you would, at minimum, prefer they not do.

 

Here's a thought for you and all that share your view... rather than act to suppress their right to protest, act to understand and eliminate the condition(s) that prompt their protest and thus eliminate their need to do so.

 

And now back to football...

The NFL players do have a stage . A large one. Just don't believe during the few minutes of the national anthem is the appropriate time.

Back to football sounds good.

[Unsympathetic]

28 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Just don't believe during the few minutes of the national anthem is the appropriate time.

 

News flash: You don't get to define appropriate for anyone else.

What you're actually saying is "At no point will I ever consider the things he's protesting to be in any way a problem, and this is today's excuse."

 

Kaepernick is not employed because he sucks.  So, when you take time out from reading your KKK newsletter to assert that this has anything to do with politics, you're showing that you've already moved from a discussion about football to yet another attempt to defeat something that doesn't exist.  First, what "The Left" are you referring to? The monolithic group inside your head that Simply Must Exist Because All Conservatives Think Alike So Liberals Also Too?

[OldBrownsFan]

19 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

 

News flash: You don't get to define appropriate for anyone else.

What you're actually saying is "At no point will I ever consider the things he's protesting to be in any way a problem, and this is today's excuse."

 

Kaepernick is not employed because he sucks.  So, when you take time out from reading your KKK newsletter to assert that this has anything to do with politics, you're showing that you've already moved from a discussion about football to yet another attempt to defeat something that doesn't exist.  First, what "The Left" are you referring to? The monolithic group inside your head that Simply Must Exist Because All Conservatives Think Alike So Liberals Also Too?

Standing for the national anthem is the appropriate time and has been for years.

Typical liberal response to make a straw man argument and then knock it down. You obviously don't know what I am really saying or you haven't read my posts. Kaepernick is not employed due to his lack of talent and being a distraction. 

KKK newsletter lol...like you get your newsletter from the antifa groups? And I will give you a clue this has everything to do with politics and if you look at my original post here I said I mistakenly put it on the football forum when I had meant to put it on the political side. 

 

 

[The Gipper]

26 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Standing for the national anthem is the appropriate time and has been for years.

Typical liberal response to make a straw man argument and then knock it down. You obviously don't know what I am really saying or you haven't read my posts. Kaepernick is not employed due to his lack of talent and being a distraction. 

KKK newsletter lol...like you get your newsletter from the antifa groups? And I will give you a clue this has everything to do with politics and if you look at my original post here I said I mistakenly put it on the football forum when I had meant to put it on the political side. 

 

 

JUst curious:  What is it about "anti-fascism" that you object to? (the obvious answer would be "I am pro-fascist"...which I don't believe for a moment that you are).   I would certainly hope and think that any good conservative/liberal/Republican/Democrat/American IS an anti-fascist.   Think about it.