"Browns' hierarchy seems to prefer Derek Anderson over fan-favorite Brady Quinn"

[Guest Masters]

Denver wasn't expecting the dink and dunk were they? Understandable, they only had 3 days to look at tape.

 

Too bad for him they figured him out by halftime.

 

It was all downhill from there. He hasn't thrown a TD since. 9 quarters.

 

Has DA ever gone 9 quarters without a TD pass? Maybe Greythan should look it up.

 

Actually that is exactly the O DEN would expect. That's what just about every team expects when they face a QB with no starting experience in the NFL. Short passes and a steady diet of the run. The only surprise was CLE throwing as much as they did early on.

 

Oh yeah, they figured him out by half time That is why the second half featured a TD drive and a FG drive in 5 total 2nd half possession (and one of those failed 3 involved a fumble by Winslow in DEN territory). Watch the games will you.

 

I don't care about TD passes as much as I care about TD scoring drives, and it was 9 quarters w/o a TD drive.

 

What I would like to see is DA go more than 4 quarters without throwing a pick. Heck I'd settle for 4 quarter w/o blowing an easy swing pass or 5 yard pass.

[Guest Masters]

Zombo, I can't go with you on the notion that the whole Browns offense sucked when only 3 quarterbacks in the entire NFL were sacked less than Anderson, who went down only 14 times. He's been well protected throughout his fall-off that began around game 9 of he previous season.

 

He gets protected very well... and he throws a lot of interceptions. Those two aren't supposed to go together.

 

In fairness Shep, part of the reason DA got sacked so little is he locks on to his target at the LOS and chucks the ball as soon as he hits that 3rd/5th step in his drop. Not that it is a good habit either.

[Lumbergh]

Well, seeing as how he has only played something to the effect of 6 healthy quarters, there isn't much to go on for a trend.

 

yeah you can say "I think Brady will quit dinking and dunking soon" for years.

 

but Mangini isn't gonna sit around and wait like you would. nope, not when he's got a Pro Bowler on the roster, who ain't afraid to stand on the 50 and launch one into the end zone.

[Drunkandstoopid]

Of course it is tough to pass in DEC. No one said it isn't. But you can't wash that 4 INT game against Cincy away with the wind. Those picks weren't the wind taking the ball. Those balls were thrown right at Cincy defenders. Of course I actually watched the games.

 

Ah, falling back on the Quinn pumper thing. For about the 100th time, it ain't about Quinn. If he plays like DA over 25+ starts, I'd want to see the guy behind him too. Heck, I didn't even want to draft Quinn originally when CLE was only sitting with the 3rd pick in the 1st.

 

Well, seeing as how he has only played something to the effect of 6 healthy quarters, there isn't much to go on for a trend. Come ask me that around week 10 or 11 of this season.

 

 

Look at the play by play of the Cincy game. Cincinnati and Carson Palmer threw many more passes than the Browns and DA during the '07 season... during the game Carson's passes were going all over the place and their O coordinator shut down the passing game... Chud didn't. DA's 48 attempts to Palmer's 21 might have had something to do with the 4 ints. Palmer had 2 ints in 21 attempts and they shut down the passing game. Palmer even had a lower efficiency rating in that game than DA did (44 to DA's 53). Lewis was actually running pretty well that game, but the Browns coaching staff chose not to try to win it on the ground in what were horrible conditions for passing.

 

DA catches the blame for that game, but it should be on the coaches.

[Guest Masters]

yeah you can say "I think Brady will quit dinking and dunking" for years.

 

but Mangini isn't gonna sit around and wait like you would. nope, not when he's got a Pro Bowler on the roster, who ain't afraid to stand on the 50 and launch one into the end zone.

 

Way to make stuff up I never said Quinn will quit dinking and dunking. Of course I can't base much on 1 healthy NFL start (which was his first). Of course his track record in college was not to dink and dunk solely. He's a take what the D give me QB, not a force the ball into triple coverage and get my receivers leveled QB.

 

A guy who backed into the Pro Bowl based on his first 8 starts (not his last 7) is hardly having a Pro Bowler on the roster. And sweet mother of god, did you really just say "who ain't afraid to stand on the 50 and launch one into the end zone."? Do you even watch football on any level? That ain't exactly a play you use once a game, let alone multiple times in a whole season. But if your point is arm strength, I will again point you to utube so you can watch Quinn in college or his pro work out. I hate to break it to you, but Quinn can throw 50 yards on a line.

[Guest Masters]

Look at the play by play of the Cincy game. Cincinnati and Carson Palmer threw many more passes than the Browns and DA during the '07 season... during the game Carson's passes were going all over the place and their O coordinator shut down the passing game... Chud didn't. DA's 48 attempts to Palmer's 21 might have had something to do with the 4 ints. Palmer had 2 ints in 21 attempts and they shut down the passing game. Palmer even had a lower efficiency rating in that game than DA did (44 to DA's 53). Lewis was actually running pretty well that game, but the Browns coaching staff chose not to try to win it on the ground in what were horrible conditions for passing.

 

DA catches the blame for that game, but it should be on the coaches.

 

For the loss, I'd put the blame on the staff. No question the game plan was bad. But for the 4 INTs, each one of those was on DA. They were never a case of the wind keeping the ball up (ala the red right 88 play) or it blowing of line. Those balls were straight up bad throws at defenders.

 

If we are going to bring up what Palmer did, I'd like to remind you that Carson was playing at the tail end of his first season back from his knee surgery. Where and fatigue from the season (rest and protecting Carson's repaired knee) could have as much to do with Cincy throwing less as the wind. Along with the fact that CLE couldn't stop the run to save their lives.

[Greythan]

Zombo,

 

Thanks for the GREAT post. Really, really surprising to me to be honest. That is a literal "who's who".

 

Does bring some perspective for me. I've stated my views on DA as "not being the answer". It still feels that way to me, but I sure don't have the stats on my side of that view. You've debunked the "lowest rated passer" argument. Good stuff.

 

The really enlightening thing about this is that Lum never raised this point. That guy really is a comical gnat at this point. Zero value other than entertainment (which is value, but of a different variety ).

 

Again, thanks for the well research and well articulated post Mr. Z!

[Lumbergh]

I hate to break it to you, but Quinn can throw 50 yards on a line.

 

bullsheeeit

 

 

 

[Timugen]

does anybody know who lum is?

 

[Lumbergh]

The really enlightening thing about this is that Lum never raised this point.

 

to non BQ Lovers the QB rating isn't a consideration in the QB competition since BQ had the same rating as DA.

 

[lemosley01]

Zombo,

 

Thanks for the GREAT post. Really, really surprising to me to be honest. That is a literal "who's who".

 

Does bring some perspective for me. I've stated my views on DA as "not being the answer". It still feels that way to me, but I sure don't have the stats on my side of that view. You've debunked the "lowest rated passer" argument. Good stuff.

 

The really enlightening thing about this is that Lum never raised this point. That guy really is a comical gnat at this point. Zero value other than entertainment (which is value, but of a different variety ).

 

Again, thanks for the well research and well articulated post Mr. Z!

 

uh...don't lose sight of the fact that some of those guys were rookies (whom you expect to perform poorly in their rookie season), and that list represents 30 years.

 

I'll bet the list of guys who sucked as passers one season and continued to suck is much, much longer.

[Drunkandstoopid]

If we are going to bring up what Palmer did, I'd like to remind you that Carson was playing at the tail end of his first season back from his knee surgery. Where and fatigue from the season (rest and protecting Carson's repaired knee) could have as much to do with Cincy throwing less as the wind.

 

Guess that explains his 97.2 rating the week prior and 121.4 rating the week following the Browns game.... not.

[Guest Masters]

bullsheeeit

 

I could bother to posts the videos and links, but they are on this board and you have posted in those threads.

[Guest Masters]

Guess that explains his 97.2 rating the week prior and 121.4 rating the week following the Browns game.... not.

 

I simply said it was a possibility, not an actuality. If you really want to go by QBR, well there is gonna be a big swing in those since the week before in SF (which is notoriously windy) and the one win Dolphins the following week, when in those games Palmer threw 4TDs to 1 INT (3 in MIA and 1 in SF), as compared to a 1TD to 2INT game against CLE. INTs have a huge impact on QBR.

 

Now why did you leave out the other part of my comment regarding running the ball agianst CLE because they can't stop the run?

[lemosley01]

I simply said it was a possibility, not an actuality. If you really want to go by QBR, well there is gonna be a big swing in those since the week before in SF (which is notoriously windy) and the one win Dolphins the following week, when in those games Palmer threw 4TDs to 1 INT (3 in MIA and 1 in SF), as compared to a 1TD to 2INT game against CLE. INTs have a huge impact on QBR.

 

Now why did you leave out the other part of my comment regarding running the ball agianst CLE because they can't stop the run?

 

Why are you having a 'debate' with someone who didn't even watch the material? He's just throwing out bullshit hoping we will forget what actually happened in the game.

 

 

 

[Zombo]

Zombo, I can't go with you on the notion that the whole Browns offense sucked when only 3 quarterbacks in the entire NFL were sacked less than Anderson, who went down only 14 times. He's been well protected throughout his fall-off that began around game 9 of he previous season.

 

He gets protected very well... and he throws a lot of interceptions. Those two aren't supposed to go together.

Well I don't know why no one gives Anderson credit for not getting sacked. Frye was getting sacked once a minute behind some of the same guys.

 

Granted, the pass protection has greatly improved ... but give the QB some credit for not taking sacks. It's like baseball and stolen bases: it's partially the pitcher and it's partially the catcher. Same with sacks: it's partially the QB and partially the line.

 

There are some QBs that don't get sacked a lot regardless of who is blocking for them, Dan Marino and Peyton Manning among them. Quick releases. For all of DA's fault's and I don't deny he has many of them, he has a quick release and does not take sacks. Those are big assets to a coaching staff.

 

I understand that Browns fans, for the most part, have seen enough of DA to give up on him and are anxious for Quinn to take over the team. But the coaching staff can't act like schoolboys in their Browns pajamas ... they have to take the emotion out of it and assess every aspect of these young QBs, the future of our franchise depends on it, and I'm glad they didn't jump to a rush judgment. Let them see for themselves who they like better ... I'm pretty sure your boy should emerge ... if he doesn't, then a better guy did.

 

Again 08 was garbage ... throw it out. It was the worst performance by a group of wide receivers I have ever seen, regardless of which of the four guys were throwing the ball.

 

And to tell you the truth, where Quinn was drafted, or what was traded for him means nothing to the new brass. They didn't draft him. They didn't sign DA. The contracts matter. And what they show on the field and in the classroom will matter. It's a clean start for everybody ... may a champion emerge.

 

Zombo

[eqrulz101]

Well I don't know why no one gives Anderson credit for not getting sacked. Frye was getting sacked once a minute behind some of the same guys.

 

Granted, the pass protection has greatly improved ... but give the QB some credit for not taking sacks. It's like baseball and stolen bases: it's partially the pitcher and it's partially the catcher. Same with sacks: it's partially the QB and partially the line.

 

There are some QBs that don't get sacked a lot regardless of who is blocking for them, Dan Marino and Peyton Manning among them. Quick releases. For all of DA's fault's and I don't deny he has many of them, he has a quick release and does not take sacks. Those are big assets to a coaching staff.

 

I understand that Browns fans, for the most part, have seen enough of DA to give up on him and are anxious for Quinn to take over the team. But the coaching staff can't act like schoolboys in their Browns pajamas ... they have to take the emotion out of it and assess every aspect of these young QBs, the future of our franchise depends on it, and I'm glad they didn't jump to a rush judgment. Let them see for themselves who they like better ... I'm pretty sure your boy should emerge ... if he doesn't, then a better guy did.

 

Again 08 was garbage ... throw it out. It was the worst performance by a group of wide receivers I have ever seen, regardless of which of the four guys were throwing the ball.

 

And to tell you the truth, where Quinn was drafted, or what was traded for him means nothing to the new brass. They didn't draft him. They didn't sign DA. The contracts matter. And what they show on the field and in the classroom will matter. It's a clean start for everybody ... may a champion emerge.

 

Zombo

 

I would just like to point out that the lack of sacks on DA seems to me to be because teams dropped back defenders and dared DA to beat them underneath which he couldnt do. When teams blizted (like in early 2007) DA tore defenses up. So they changed up and dropped back defenders, which we all seen the result in late 2007 and 2008. All be it 2008 our offense sucked but he was the leader of that sucky offense. Blame lies with him as well.

[daddybull1]

As I stated in another thread, after the 2007 season I had the opportunity to meet Carson Palmer at a sporting goods show and we briefly discussed the game in Cinncy... He stated that they were the worst wind conditions he had ever played in and on one pass he missed his mark by 10 yards... When the ball left your hand you had no idea where it would end up were his words I believe....

 

Zombo has it correct though, you can spin statistics any way you want....How many times a QB gets sacked could be more of a testament for the QB rather than the line.... As far as dropping more defenders to defend the pass---this says a hell of a lot about those people who were calling the plays.... A young QB seldom changes the play at the line but a smart O Coordinator knows what plays to call to take advantage of the defense that we're running against.... Once again, all of this doesn't necessarily fall at DA's feet....

 

I hope Quinn lives up to all the expectations, hope he gives the team the energy needed to get us to where we want to go.... I hope he brings excitment with the winning results that we experienced with Sipe & Kosar.... Even in defeat I was proud to be a Cleveland Brown... I didn't go off scratching my head trying to figure out what I had just seen.... I can't remember being beat so soundly that it was an embarassment....

 

If Quinns the guy, so be it.... If its Anderson, thats the way it is.... If it's Ratliff of some other QB not yet on the roster, bring him on.... If the planets align and we stay injury free, 2009 could be one hell of a ride..................

 

peace

 

T. Dawg

[eqrulz101]

As I stated in another thread, after the 2007 season I had the opportunity to meet Carson Palmer at a sporting goods show and we briefly discussed the game in Cinncy... He stated that they were the worst wind conditions he had ever played in and on one pass he missed his mark by 10 yards... When the ball left your hand you had no idea where it would end up were his words I believe....

 

Zombo has it correct though, you can spin statistics any way you want....How many times a QB gets sacked could be more of a testament for the QB rather than the line.... As far as dropping more defenders to defend the pass---this says a hell of a lot about those people who were calling the plays.... A young QB seldom changes the play at the line but a smart O Coordinator knows what plays to call to take advantage of the defense that we're running against.... Once again, all of this doesn't necessarily fall at DA's feet....

 

I hope Quinn lives up to all the expectations, hope he gives the team the energy needed to get us to where we want to go.... I hope he brings excitment with the winning results that we experienced with Sipe & Kosar.... Even in defeat I was proud to be a Cleveland Brown... I didn't go off scratching my head trying to figure out what I had just seen.... I can't remember being beat so soundly that it was an embarassment....

 

If Quinns the guy, so be it.... If its Anderson, thats the way it is.... If it's Ratliff of some other QB not yet on the roster, bring him on.... If the planets align and we stay injury free, 2009 could be one hell of a ride..................

 

peace

 

T. Dawg

 

While I agree we had some really bad coaching are you tring to say that they were so bad that they did game plan and call plays that could be effective against cover defense? I mean these guys do get paid good money and have years of experience, to say that they didnt call plays that could be effective agaisnt cover defense is laughable. Some play calling, ok, but to put it solely on that you just can not do. Blame lies with DA and not being able to get it done. Either he didnt check down to other receivers or he just threw bad short passes.

[sisky fringo]

.....the boy crumbles under pressure, and there is no bigger pressure than a media hyped QB competition for the Cleveland Browns. He only performs when there is no pressure and I can guarantee you that this won't be one of those times. Quinn comes out on top, case closed.

saying DA completely crumbles under pressure is about as ridiculous as guaranteeing Quinn will be the starter.

 

reality is there was a Browns QB last year who resembles that statement.....but he is no longer on the roster.

 

[sisky fringo]

While I agree we had some really bad coaching are you tring to say that they were so bad that they did game plan and call plays that could be effective against cover defense? I mean these guys do get paid good money and have years of experience, to say that they didnt call plays that could be effective agaisnt cover defense is laughable. Some play calling, ok, but to put it solely on that you just can not do. Blame lies with DA and not being able to get it done. Either he didnt check down to other receivers or he just threw bad short passes.

and the Browns lost by a slim margin--it wasn't a blowout by any means.