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The Gipper

Jordan vs. LeBron

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The Gipper    1,164

Sorry folks, all of you who worship at the mantle of Michael Jordan....or who would like to snuffle the cum in the crack of his ass.....I don't think he is the greatest player ever. Greatest shooting guard? Yes, but I think that 3-4 players rank higher on the "GOAT' meter than MJ. These include LeBron, Magic, maybe Bird, likely Wilt and Russell.

 

Here is the response to those who say "but Jordan has 6 rings"....the answer is: his 6 rings were far easier for him to get than what rings the others got.

Jordan NEVER faced teams as good as these GS Warriors or the San Antonio Spurs.

Jordan NEVER faced teams as good as the Magic/Kareem Lakers or the Bird/McHale Celtics.

The best opponent that Jordan ever had to face were the Jazz with Stockton and Malone. Good teams, no doubt.....not close to as good as Warriors/Spurs of LeBrons era or Celtics/Lakers of the Magic Bird era.

Then of course there is the issue of: 6 rings. Bill Russell led Celtics won 11!.

 

So, OK...to throw out the bone, here is what I would do: Name an all time team:

 

Center

Power Forward

Small Forward

Shooting Guard

Point Guard

 

To fill the spots....in some cases is tough thing, very tough.

 

Center: Probably the toughest with Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq

Power Forward: Tim Duncan....Karl Malone 2d

Small Forward: LeBron....Bird second..then Dr. J

Shooting Guard: Jordan....Kobe 2d..or maybe Jerry West

Point Guard: Magic....Oscar Robertson 2d

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BaconHound    92

I think you can argue Lebron but Jordan is still ahead. If Lebron wins this series and continues at the same level 25+ ppg 6+ reb 6+ assts for a few more years and retires I'm inclined based on the eye test and longevity to say he's #1.

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You can add Jordan's team won 55 games without him. Can you see what this Cavs team would do if they could win 55 games without LeBron? They didn't win 55 games with him. My dream team Magic Jordan LeBron Bird Kareem

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The Gipper    1,164

You can add Jordan's team won 55 games without him. Can you see what this Cavs team would do if they could win 55 games without LeBron? They didn't win 55 games with him. My dream team Magic Jordan LeBron Bird Kareem

And figure this out: What did Jordan do without Phil Jackson. To a certain extent I think Jackson made Jordan, not the other way around. Remember...with a guy about as similar to Jordan in skill....Kobe...Jackson won another 5 titles.

That is how I view things. Jackson was the straw that stirred the Bulls drink, not Jordan.

I mean...what if Jackson has stayed with Kobe and they won one more title together?

Would we be saying that Kobe was the GOAT? It would without doubt be arguable. It is arguable now. For Kobe's last couple of title wins he did not have the kind of supporting cast that Jordan had, did he?

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mjp28    156

And figure this out: What did Jordan do without Phil Jackson. To a certain extent I think Jackson made Jordan, not the other way around. Remember...with a guy about as similar to Jordan in skill....Kobe...Jackson won another 5 titles.

That is how I view things. Jackson was the straw that stirred the Bulls drink, not Jordan.

I mean...what if Jackson has stayed with Kobe and they won one more title together?

Would we be saying that Kobe was the GOAT? It would without doubt be arguable. It is arguable now. For Kobe's last couple of title wins he did not have the kind of supporting cast that Jordan had, did he?

You always have a supporting cast that enables the superstar to collect rings PLUS SOMETIMES JUST SOME LUCK or else you have the greats that are always the "what ifs", Jim Kelly, Marino, LT, Ewing, Fouts, Ted Williams just off the top of my head.

 

MJ also had Pippin and the vastly overlooked Dennis Rodman tattoos and all.

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You always have a supporting cast that enables the superstar to collect rings PLUS SOMETIMES JUST SOME LUCK or else you have the greats that are always the "what ifs", Jim Kelly, Marino, LT, Ewing, Fouts, Ted Williams just off the top of my head.

 

MJ also had Pippin and the vastly overlooked Dennis Rodman tattoos and all.

spot on both of you. Jackson arguably greatest coach ever and Rodman was huge for them. It was Rodman beating up the Bulls first in Detroit, We have the poor man's Rodman in Thomson. Got to love guys with strong motor

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bbedward    448

Jordan is viewed as untouchable because of the 6 rings and that he's in much more recent memory than most of the other GOAT contenders.

 

Both great players, but Lebron is just a freak that's ridiculously well-rounded. Big, athletic, triple double machine.

 

Magic Johnson would be higher on the GOAT scale had he not retired early, I think.

 

Wilt and Russell are harder to rate because they played in such a different era, though i think Wilt is definitely much more in the discussion than Russell.

 

I've heard Bill Russell is a bit of a dick though, someone I know rode in the same elevator as Russell in Vegas with his son - some years ago, maybe it was 2007 for the NBA all star game, don't remember exactly. They said the usual "it's an honor to meet you", whatever. The son asked for his autograph, to which Russell said "$100." They thought he was joking and laughed, long story short he paid $100 for Bill Russell's autograph - a worthy investment nonetheless.

 

Doesn't sound that egregious but I guess his overall demeanor was just "I'm Bill Russell and everybody else is a peasant"

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RoyceRolls    204

And figure this out: What did Jordan do without Phil Jackson. To a certain extent I think Jackson made Jordan, not the other way around. Remember...with a guy about as similar to Jordan in skill....Kobe...Jackson won another 5 titles.

That is how I view things. Jackson was the straw that stirred the Bulls drink, not Jordan.

I mean...what if Jackson has stayed with Kobe and they won one more title together?

Would we be saying that Kobe was the GOAT? It would without doubt be arguable. It is arguable now. For Kobe's last couple of title wins he did not have the kind of supporting cast that Jordan had, did he?

In the NBA it's talent that wins out. Phil Jackson was a good manager of egos, but when you have all time greats like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, pippen etc. you're supposed to win.

 

A can of chef Boyardee beef ravioli could coach these warriors to a championship simply because they have the most talent. Adding Kevin Durant to a 73 win team is laughably OP.

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The Gipper    1,164

In the NBA it's talent that wins out. Phil Jackson was a good manager of egos, but when you have all time greats like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, pippen etc. you're supposed to win.

 

A can of chef Boyardee beef ravioli could coach these warriors to a championship simply because they have the most talent. Adding Kevin Durant to a 73 win team is laughably OP.

I have heard some talk this morning however that these titles could be all due to Steve Kerr's philosophy. They ....i.e. commentators on ESPN....implied that if Mike Brown were the head coach and brought his own philosophy....that the Warriors may not have won...despite all their talent.

 

Dan Gilbert came in for some critique as well....for his position on GMs and HCs. In the 4 Finals the Cavs have gone to with LeBron...they have done it with 3 different HCs and 3 different GMs. They consider that a stability issue.....including going forward with Griffin's status up in the air.

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mjp28    156

In the NBA it's talent that wins out. Phil Jackson was a good manager of egos, but when you have all time greats like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, pippen etc. you're supposed to win.

A can of chef Boyardee beef ravioli could coach these warriors to a championship simply because they have the most talent. Adding Kevin Durant to a 73 win team is laughably OP.

Yes and a 5 man team only needs about 2 or 3 superstars and some key bench guys to win it all versus a 9 or 11 man team.

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Browns149    254

LeBron has been in the finals 8 times. Jordan got there 6 times.

 

Jordan has the best team 6 times. LeBron had the best team 2 times

 

No one has ever claimed any of Lebron's teammates are in the top 100 best players ever

 

Jordan played with Pippen, and Rodman, and had Phil as his coach.

 

Also, LeBron has been in the NBA since he was 18. Jordan went to college and " was told to leave" the NBA, for 2 years

 

I have personally seen both these guys play, and I also have stood right next to both of them, and talked to both of them........

 

MJ is the best BASKETBALL CLOSER I have very seen, but LeBron is the GREATEST basketball player I have ever seen.

 

LeBron doesn't have the "KILLER" instinct that MJ or KOBE had, but his skills are WAY WAY WAY better then either of those guys

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BaconHound    92

LeBron has been in the finals 8 times. Jordan got there 6 times.

 

Jordan had the best team 6 times. LeBron had the best team 2 times

 

No one has ever claimed any of Lebron's teammates are in the top 100 best players ever

 

Jordan played with Pippen, and Rodman, and had Phil as his coach.

 

Also, LeBron has been in the NBA since he was 18. Jordan went to college and " was told to leave" the NBA, for 2 years

 

I have personally seen both these guys play, and I also have stood right next to both of them, and talked to both of them........

 

MJ is the best BASKETBALL CLOSER I have very seen, but LeBron is the GREATEST basketball player I have ever seen.

 

LeBron doesn't have the "KILLER" instinct that MJ or KOBE had, but his skills are WAY WAY WAY better then either of those guys

 

 

Bolded facts, italicized laughable hyperbole.

 

Lebron maybe the most complete basketball player ever but the name of the game is scoring points and defending and nobody has done that better than Michael Jordan.

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The Gipper    1,164

 

 

Bolded facts, italicized laughable hyperbole.

 

Lebron maybe the most complete basketball player ever but the name of the game is scoring points and defending and nobody has done that better than Michael Jordan.

If scoring and defending are the only aspects of the game that matter....then Jordan loses out badly to Wilt Chamberlain....who was better at both.

If winning titles is the only aspect that matters then Jordan loses out badly to Bill Russell (and a couple of other Celtics)..who was better.

Just the facts ma'am.

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mjp28    156

But wait Russell walks with a cane and Jordan is retired LeBron would bury either one of those guys! :huh:

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BaconHound    92

If scoring and defending are the only aspects of the game that matter....then Jordan loses out badly to Wilt Chamberlain....who was better at both.

If winning titles is the only aspect that matters then Jordan loses out badly to Bill Russell (and a couple of other Celtics)..who was better.

Just the facts ma'am.

 

 

I don't think anyone doubts Wilt's dominance but there is context to his accomplishments.

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The Gipper    1,164

 

 

I don't think anyone doubts Wilt's dominance but there is context to his accomplishments.

Yea? And what is that context?

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BaconHound    92

I'm pretty sure you already know that answer.

 

 

He's clear physical dominance and I'm with you Gip knows just baiting.

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The Gipper    1,164

I'm pretty sure you already know that answer.

I honest don't know what the fuck you are talking about "context". The context is a basketball court. 94 feet by 50 feet. 10 foot rims. That is the only context I am aware of.

The only other thing I can think if is the context of your lifetime.....which is no context at all. Your life is irrelevant.

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Richiswhere    38

I honest don't know what the fuck you are talking about "context". The context is a basketball court. 94 feet by 50 feet. 10 foot rims. That is the only context I am aware of.

The only other thing I can think if is the context of your lifetime.....which is no context at all. Your life is irrelevant.

Come on trivia boy....you can't be this stupid :wacko:

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BaconHound    92

I honest don't know what the fuck you are talking about "context". The context is a basketball court. 94 feet by 50 feet. 10 foot rims. That is the only context I am aware of.

The only other thing I can think if is the context of your lifetime.....which is no context at all. Your life is irrelevant.

 

 

The context of being 7'0 and athletic when 95% of your competition is 6'4" and much less athletic

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The Gipper    1,164

 

 

The context of being 7'0 and athletic when 95% of your competition is 6'4" and much less athletic

So, you are saying that height matters when assessing the greatest of all time?

 

Well then, maybe Spud Webb and Mugsy Bogues should be considered the GOATS.

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nickers    251

So, you are saying that height matters when assessing the greatest of all time?

 

Well then, maybe Spud Webb and Mugsy Bogues should be considered the GOATS.

Don't forget Earl Boykins LOL...

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