ballpeen Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Let's start with these basic questions, if anyone is willing to engage in the discussion on the board. Not many want to do that. I said the same thing earlier in the discussion when I said there really isn't a compromise position....either you believe life starts at conception or it doesn't. To me, either it starts at conception, or it starts at birth....I don't think it starts at some point in between. Either outlaw abortion or allow the termination of the fetus at any time before it is born. That is the only compromise position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 I know it is the law of the land. I am not giving any opinion of that. I do disagree it is a womans issue....that is a deli counter comment. As I said earlier...if a woman can absolve responsibility of a child for reason of finance or maturity, men should be afforded the same right. If he isn't ready to be a father, then he should have the right to not be a father. You do believe in equal rights don't you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 If a man isnt ready to be a father maybe he shouldnt be having unprotected sex. I agree. The same should be said for a woman. As it stands, only a woman can get out of a unwanted pregnancy. Again, I ask, do you believe in equal rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Again my friend, I don't disagree. And sorry if it felt like I was pinning you to the wall, it wasn't you at all, but it is a legal issue IMO that hasn't been addressed and in the end is how I predict abortion will come to an end. It is unconstitutional to afford rights to one group and exclude another. We are going to have to make abortion illegal except under very strict exceptions....like a rape....or allow men to opt out of the deal just as women can opt out because lets face it, 99.9% of all abortions are done simply because the woman doesn't want the baby for reasons other than rape, health issues, or incest. Those account for a very small percentage if you want to quibble over my use of 99.9%....ok, we will say 98% in the effort to compromise I do agree, men need to wrap up and women need to use a pill.....one aspirin held firmly between the knees the the cheapest, most effective birth control pill know to man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Steve, you know that's not a fair question to have asked, and you're pretty fortunate to have actually gotten an answer out of KFP. So how about this, Steve. Let's say your kid needs a heart transplant. The thing is, the only way he/she gets that new heart is if you rape thirty elderly nuns at gunpoint. What do you do? Fun game, huh... No because the nuns never killed anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 The same people that bitch about abortion are the same people bitching that welfare mothers are ripping off the system. An 18 year old with a kid really doesn't have many options. Either have the kid and pay $800/month in child care (while making minimum wage mind you) or have an abortion. The hypocrites can't seem to get it straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Super Fly Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 The same people that bitch about abortion are the same people bitching that welfare mothers are ripping off the system. An 18 year old with a kid really doesn't have many options. Either have the kid and pay $800/month in child care (while making minimum wage mind you) or have an abortion. The hypocrites can't seem to get it straight. whats the family for if they wont help out? why rely on big brother? you liberals are all about personal convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Yeah God forbid they do the responsible thing and practice safe sex.... Hence the need for sex ed in schools. We don't trust parents to teach math, either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Yeah God forbid they do the responsible thing and practice safe sex.... Wow YOU are righteous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 whats the family for if they wont help out? why rely on big brother? you liberals are all about personal convenience. Family. Oooooohhh I get it. Yea family. How obtuse. Personal convenience, lol. My father has asthma so bad and a degenerative bone disease and cannot work and is a Vet. My step dad got shot in Cambodia parachuting in and could barley walk before he passed away. Both received aid from "Big Brother". My friend please define "personal convenience" when relating to "Big Brother"? I can't think of a time I owned someone in 4 sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 The same people that bitch about abortion are the same people bitching that welfare mothers are ripping off the system. An 18 year old with a kid really doesn't have many options. Either have the kid and pay $800/month in child care (while making minimum wage mind you) or have an abortion. The hypocrites can't seem to get it straight. Of course teen welfare mopthers aren't squirting out pups because they can't get an abortion. And as to "education" I'd bet they know where babies come from. You can't teach responsibility apparently. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Of course teen welfare mopthers aren't squirting out pups because they can't get an abortion. And as to "education" I'd bet they know where babies come from. You can't teach responsibility apparently. WSS I agree. But shit man, things happen. If a girl "does the right thing" and has the baby, has no family to help, and can't afford heath care, food or shelter for the baby, then she is burden to the state? Prevention is key of course, but shit happens, condoms break, kids get drunk and make bad decisions. And it is a bad decision and poor judgment, agreed. I am sure NONE of you at 16 years old made bad choices. In this case it just happens to be sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 I agree. But shit man, things happen. If a girl "does the right thing" and has the baby, has no family to help, and can't afford heath care, food or shelter for the baby, then she is burden to the state? Prevention is key of course, but shit happens, condoms break, kids get drunk and make bad decisions. And it is a bad decision and poor judgment, agreed. I am sure NONE of you at 16 years old made bad choices. In this case it just happens to be sex. That's all true, but I guess I'm missing your point. What does it have to do with abortion? It's perfectly legal for any reason and at any time and a million places to get one free if you're too poor. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Of course teen welfare mopthers aren't squirting out pups because they can't get an abortion. And as to "education" I'd bet they know where babies come from. You can't teach responsibility apparently. WSS abstinence doesn't teach them where they come from......and perhaps some can't afford condoms....because they're cheating the system and dont have bootstraps. you put all the onus on them, and try to remove all the tools they can use to better themselves or protect themselves. then have the nerve to vilify them as if they're less than human..... gimme a break......you're hypocrisy is seeping out your eyes..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 So expecting people who don't have the means to take of a baby to practice safe sex is self righteous? I'm not talking about people who had their condom break or diaphrams come loose (do they even use those anymore?) that shit just happens. But if your running up in chicks raw dog style and knocking them up left and right then that's irresponsible. it'd be easier to practice safe sex if condoms were available, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 So expecting people who don't have the means to take of a baby to practice safe sex is self righteous? I'm not talking about people who had their condom break or diaphrams come loose (do they even use those anymore?) that shit just happens. But if your running up in chicks raw dog style and knocking them up left and right then that's irresponsible. I agree man, it is irresponsible, but these are kids. The reason they are not able to vote and drink is BECAUSE they are kids. So let's enable girls to get abortions ONLY if a condom breaks or they don't know how to use a diaphram? Should their be sex laws, oh wait there are: Yes that is Jack Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 So basically you're saying that kids are irresponsible and we should just accept it? Pretty much. You have kids, right? They're irresponsible by nature, not on purpose. We can't teach them to not be kids. But, knowing what we know about them, we can do our best to teach them the right/safe thing to do. And allowing abortions for teens who made poor choices only teaches them that poor decisions can be easily erased. If you've known anyone who has gotten an abortion or been involved in the situation, you'd know this isn't the case at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 As a father how did you or how will you approach this conversation? To be honest, I have no idea how I'll approach it. But I would approach it rather than ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 abstinence doesn't teach them where they come from......and perhaps some can't afford condoms....because they're cheating the system and dont have bootstraps. Yeah. Can't afford a free rubber. That's probably the problem. you put all the onus on them, and try to remove all the tools they can use to better themselves or protect themselves. What tools has anybody removed that would allow a dame the brains to know where babies come from? then have the nerve to vilify them as if they're less than human..... Seriously? You're the guy saying they can't be expected to behave in a normal manner. Just too tough, right? gimme a break......you're hypocrisy is seeping out your eyes..... Have you read anything I wrote? Or can't you understand it, you know, lack of tools and all.... But yes. If you behave in an anti social or self destructive or irresponsible manner you deserve the blame. Who else? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Good post Danamal. I have a daughter as well, though she is 31 now.....geesh. You have to be realistic, you can hammer abstinence all you want, and hope it takes hold as long as possible, but once people begin to have sex you aren't going to talk them out of having it again. I think women have failed in their mission. The law of nature dictates the females need to be the selective ones in the process because they stand the most to lose. They don't do that anymore(as a general opinion). I honestly believe the idea of abortion has led to girls losing this standard. In the back of their mind they feel abortion is the fall back position, but when it comes to actually going through with it is another matter. If abortion wasn't an option except in unusual circumstances, I feel teen pregnancy rates would actually drop. Women would become much more selective. Maybe not in a year, it would take a generation until the young girls of today flower in to womanhood. I appreciate what you have gone through raising a daughter. Your politics may suck , but you sound like a good egg and I am sure your young lady is every bit the lady. Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 To be honest, I have no idea how I'll approach it. But I would approach it rather than ignore it. Oh no.....you can't ignore it, that is the worst thing you can do. You teach. Self control first, birth control second...and with girls today, it seems to be at a pretty young age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 My daughters graceful entrance into womanhood is all a credit to my wife ,she's a great woman and in three weeks we celebrate 22 years married and we've been together since 83. Man im old.... From what I remember when we met, you looked old Just kidding Bubba...I know, a redneck hick term, but what can I say??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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