Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Zombo

Kamp Kizer

Recommended Posts

Personally if there were a gun to my head and I had to burn a first round pick on a quarterback it would be Trubisky Watson then who knows maybe Kizer.

If you're going to gamble wait till later. Or go with the best shot at winning.

 

WSS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oops, typo....corrected.

 

Funny story though.....when I was age 62....I measured out at 6'2". But...sometime when I was 63 yrs. old....I measured 6'3". I legitimately grew an inch at age 63.

Probably all that time upside down in your Teeter Hang Up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No QB in round 1

2 QB's in rd 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably all that time upside down in your Teeter Hang Up

 

lmao...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably all that time upside down in your Teeter Hang Up

 

Which just about explains everything. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stat of the day...

 

Deshone Kizer passing splits with play action:

  • 154.7 (No. 1 in college football)
  • no play action: 85.5 (No. 62)

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/844526368197165056?s=09

So is it a good thing or a bad thing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stat of the day...

 

Deshone Kizer passing splits with play action:

  • 154.7 (No. 1 in college football)
  • no play action: 85.5 (No. 62)

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/844526368197165056?s=09

So is it a good thing or a bad thing?

Depends on what Hue wants to do. They may have the o-line now to make a RB a real threat. Did Hue use a lot of PA in Cincy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stat of the day...

 

Deshone Kizer passing splits with play action:

  • 154.7 (No. 1 in college football)
  • no play action: 85.5 (No. 62)

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/844526368197165056?s=09

So is it a good thing or a bad thing?

OK, what do you mean by a "passing split"? And how are those number you gave measured? Is this "passer rating"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My take...

 

PA creates margin for error. Kizer's "error" is his slow release... he needs the time/space PA creates to be effective.

 

I wonder if there's a YAC stat for PA completions? If I'm on track here, I would think his result would not be near the top due to his slower delivery giving the 2ndary recovery time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My take...

 

PA creates margin for error. Kizer's "error" is his slow release... he needs the time/space PA creates to be effective.

 

I wonder if there's a YAC stat for PA completions? If I'm on track here, I would think his result would not be near the top due to his slower delivery giving the 2ndary recovery time.

 

Does he play better with PA because defenses are playing run more often than not ? Are defenses playing run because the ND run game is effective? Is the ND run game effective because they have to respect Kizer's arm? Or are defenses playing run because they don't have to respect the pass, and do they not have to respect the pass because they don't respect Kizer's arm?

 

It's too hard to define causal relationships in this scenario, but I'd put my money on the fact that Kizer's running ability is what makes him effective in PA. Keep in mind, this isn't necessarily traditional PA, this is all PA...including read option and RPO.

 

On any given play, two of the three possible outcomes are run. Defenses simply have to play closer. I'd love to see stats on more "traditional" PA.

 

I still love Kizer and would very much enjoy it if we picked him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... I'd put my money on the fact that Kizer's running ability is what makes him effective in PA.

 

Isn't the end result the same regardless of the player who ends up running with the ball? Namely freezing LBs, and if they are peeking DBs, so they can't drop into their zones or lose a step or two on their man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Isn't the end result the same regardless of the player who ends up running with the ball? Namely freezing LBs, and if they are peeking DBs, so they can't drop into their zones or lose a step or two on their man.

It's more drastic in a read option system with a sidecar RB, as you have to freeze an extra half second even after the PA.

 

You're asking LB's not only to find the ball past the mesh point, but now to discern whether the QB is also running it even if the RB doesn't take it.

 

The end result is the same, but a read option creates an even longer delay in LBers dropping back as the QB "rides" the RB, which in turn creates even softer zones.

 

It's what makes a QB who can actually run, throw and read defenses so coveted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The end result is the same, but a read option creates an even longer delay in LBers dropping back as the QB "rides" the RB, which in turn creates even softer zones.

 

So my theory is correct? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to admit, I haven't watched TOO much of Kizer, but what I DID watch, I didn't care for. The problem for me is whether or not his play was a result of bad coaching and scheme, or if HE was the reason for the poor season. All that aside, my main concern is that I read several places that Kizer holds the ball and doesn't get it out quickly. That scares me to death. Now, if we can get Kizer at the end of the first round (trade up), or even in the second round, I'd be cool with that. As it stands now, I think Mitch is my number 1, and Watson is my number 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So my theory is correct? ;)

 

Yeah, probably. I wasn't disagreeing with that, only pointing out that college PA is not necessarily the same as NFL PA and that this stat is interesting but not necessarily indicative of anything. I'm sure RG3 and Cam Newton had a similar split.

 

All that said, I still love Kizer's potential, and not just athletically. He has the mentality and demeanor of an NFL QB. Add to that his intelligence, work ethic and physical ability and I think that he's a contender for "grooming franchise QB project" in the late first, early second.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yeah, probably. I wasn't disagreeing with that, only pointing out that college PA is not necessarily the same as NFL PA and that this stat is interesting but not necessarily indicative of anything. I'm sure RG3 and Cam Newton had a similar split.

 

All that said, I still love Kizer's potential, and not just athletically. He has the mentality and demeanor of an NFL QB. Add to that his intelligence, work ethic and physical ability and I think that he's a contender for "grooming franchise QB project" in the late first, early second.

 

lol... well if you can fix that delivery, I'll join you...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

lol... well if you can fix that delivery, I'll join you...

His delivery doesn't bother me. Too much is hung up on guys being perfect throwers when really it doesn't matter. Philip Rivers is one of the ugliest passers around.

 

What matters most is getting the ball where you need to. That comes with intelligence, comfort and confidence more than it does a high elbow, pointed toe and released hips.

 

If you can read a defense, process information on the fly and make a decision, you can make up for a quarter-second longer delivery.

 

It's 100% about scheme fit. Kizer's best fit is likely to be in a heavy PA scheme.

 

Andrew Luck isn't technically sound. He's not horrible, but he makes his awkward motion, weird grip and semi-floating back leg work for him. RG3 was considered to have a superior release by a couple scouts and analysts, including Greg Cosell. But Luck was put into an offense that featured heavy play-action, longer developing routes and extending plays a la Roethlisberger. Which one is on a team right now?

 

I'm fairly sure Luck has been near the bottom of the league his entire career in release time, despite the fact that he's not fundamentally horrid nor is he a slow thinker. He's just in an offense that is longer developing and not as much a timing based, quick fire offense.

 

Put Kizer in a McDaniels offense, probably doesn't do extremely well. Put Kizer in an Arians offense, now we're talking.

 

The question is...what offense will we be running? My money is on the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

His delivery doesn't bother me. Too much is hung up on guys being perfect throwers when really it doesn't matter. Philip Rivers is one of the ugliest passers around.

Should have been more precise... Fix his release... way too long, too slow. That was my whole PA argument... and that he wasted the time it buys him.

 

Rivers' by contrast is about as quick as you'll find. True... it's fugly, but it's quick...

 

Esthetics be damned... but need that quick release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should have been more precise... Fix his release... way too long, too slow. That was my whole PA argument... and that he wasted the time it buys him.

 

Rivers' by contrast is about as quick as you'll find. True... it's fugly, but it's quick...

 

Esthetics be damned... but need that quick release.

 

Watched Kizer's pro day Tour- saw the same thing you have.... And the windup, and the ppppppiiiiiiitttttcccchhhhhh. Sllllllloooooowwwwww. Mitch unloads the ball way faster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mitch does unload the ball much quicker. He has a VERY quick release and I love it. Kizer reminds me a LITTLE bit of Weeden in that he's definitely got the arm, but he holds onto the ball. He's obviously WAY more athletic, but I worry about people falling in love with Kizer because he "looks the part". I mean, the guy looks like he was built at a QB factory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mitch unloads the ball way faster.

 

But can he throw a spiral? Man, he threw a ton of wobblers... seemed to be aiming everything...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mitch does unload the ball much quicker. He has a VERY quick release and I love it. Kizer reminds me a LITTLE bit of Weeden in that he's definitely got the arm, but he holds onto the ball. He's obviously WAY more athletic, but I worry about people falling in love with Kizer because he "looks the part". I mean, the guy looks like he was built at a QB factory.

Kizer should be drafted in like the 2d round by one of the teams that has an older QB so that he could develop. From everything I have heard he needs more time than the other 2 QBs. (yes, even more than the "inexperienced Trubisky"). Maybe the Saints, Cards, Chargers, Chiefs, Packers, Giants, even Steelers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kizer should be drafted in like the 2d round by one of the teams that has an older QB so that he could develop. From everything I have heard he needs more time than the other 2 QBs. (yes, even more than the "inexperienced Trubisky"). Maybe the Saints, Cards, Chargers, Chiefs, Packers, Giants, even Steelers.

 

Kizer is almost as inexperienced as Trubisky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Kizer is almost as inexperienced as Trubisky.

But that is rarely mentioned as it is with MT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×