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Zombo

Kamp Kizer

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On 3/2/2017 at 9:35 AM, Zombo said:

So ... the "NFL sources" have put out the word that the Patriots are not trading the guy I have wanted all along ... Jimmy Garappolo ... and it could be a smokescreen, a gimmick to up the ante, and all that ... but let's just say the Browns don't acquire a starting QB in free agency or trade ... who's your draft guy?

 

Mine is DeShone Kizer. Perfect size, excellent mobility, big arm, throws a beautiful deep ball.

 

THIS is a guy that Hugh Jackson can turn into a stud.

 

If we go draft, do we keep RG3 around for another year, or do we cut bait and go totally inexperienced with Kessler and Kizer? Not sure, as I am not an RG3 fan. I think I'd rather start the season Kessler, Kizer, veteran third string dude and get rid of RG3.

 

So how do we get him? You take Garrett #1. Then you gotta read the tea leaves ... if he's going to be there at #12 then wait and pounce, if you think he's gone earlier ... Trade up.

 

90% of you are going to hate this, especially the last part, but I truly believe he is the best QB prospect in the draft, and if we settle for less than best, we're not doing it right.

 

Zombo

And I will be at his fist start for the Cleveland Browns Saturday Night ... Boom!

Z

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lol... enjoy!

If only you'd called his fall to Rnd 2...

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As long as Oswieller doesn't start. I'd take Kessler over Brock right now. 

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Brock won't win us games. His accuracy is stupid trash. Kizer although still learning. Still pretty raw. He's put us on the board. 

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4 minutes ago, Alkid3 said:

Brock won't win us games. His accuracy is stupid trash. Kizer although still learning. Still pretty raw. He's put us on the board. 

Kizer won't 'win' us games either.

 

What's going to win you games is the running attack,   creating turnovers, being on the plus side of the turnover differential and red zone defense.  

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Just now, tiamat63 said:

Kizer won't 'win' us games either.

 

What's going to win you games is the running attack,   creating turnovers, being on the plus side of the turnover differential and red zone defense.  

I know it was a preseason game but he did win us the game against the Saints. You think it can't happen during regular season?

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18 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... enjoy!

If only you'd called his fall to Rnd 2...

I would have taken him in the first ... obviously.

But I did call him in the correct spot in the Browns Board Mock draft.

It is meant to be ... after all these years in the desert.

I have paid my penance for starting Camp Couch.

Zombo

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Alkid3 said:

I know it was a preseason game but he did win us the game against the Saints. You think it can't happen during regular season?

Of course it 'can' happen.   I'm only saying what your most reasonable chance of any type of success will be this year.   It won't come on the shoulders of this particular rookie. 

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11 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Of course it 'can' happen.   I'm only saying what your most reasonable chance of any type of success will be this year.   It won't come on the shoulders of this particular rookie. 

In your opinion. I honestly think he gives us the best chance to win. And more of a chance that he wins games for us the Brock. 

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On 3/2/2017 at 12:34 PM, CaineDeSoulis said:

wow yep he's pretty big wish he could play QB

Funny how nobody is saying he gives us the best chance to win anymore

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Sunshine Go Away Today  or Ain't No Sunshine? Which is more appropriate, Steve? Others? Sun King? Good Morning Starshine?

 

I get the unrest. I saw Kizer's poor decisions and poor touch... even poor accuracy on a pitch.

I also saw the spark of Hogan's first series... and I saw his limitations as did anyone who was watching.

But I also saw Kizer move the team.

I start Kizer Sunday at HOU... I may well pull him at the end of the 1st Qtr to keep the progression of his pulls alive, but I start him.

 

And I also sit with him for a while at the end of every series. C'mon, Hue.... I'm getting tired of typing this!

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5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Sunshine Go Away Today  or Ain't No Sunshine? Which is more appropriate, Steve? Others? Sun King? Good Morning Starshine?

 

I get the unrest. I saw Kizer's poor decisions and poor touch... even poor accuracy on a pitch.

I also saw the spark of Hogan's first series... and I saw his limitations as did anyone who was watching.

But I also saw Kizer move the team.

I start Kizer Sunday at HOU... I may well pull him at the end of the 1st Qtr to keep the progression of his pulls alive, but I start him.

 

And I also sit with him for a while at the end of every series. C'mon, Hue.... I'm getting tired of typing this!

I'm sticking with my eight games. We're Shmucked anyway so it probably doesn't matter. And there's a chance he could reverse his downward slide.

But:

As long as we are dreaming of unicorns and fairy dust it just could be that if we gave the reins to Hogan today and he started working with the first team there's no reason he couldn't be the guy. But...

WSS

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3 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Am a bit confused as to who "the sunshine boys" are after reading the article. Some quotes:

  • " After his team fell to 0-5, Jackson said he's "got to see the tape and look at everything" before making any such change, but you know it's coming. With it will go the chance to properly develop the raw Kizer as a passer in his first NFL season."
  • " Let's hope that when Jackson sees the tape, he will see that much of Hogan's production and efficiency, including the 41-yard TD to Johnson, came on a last-gasp drive with the Jets having a 10-point lead deep into the fourth quarter."
  • " But Jackson is also looking at the fact he's now 1-20 as the Browns' head coach. It's only natural for him to be more concerned about job security than in working even harder to get Kizer to improve. The rub is, those things go hand in hand for Jackson."
  • " Hogan looked every bit the part of a game manager with a low ceiling. Sound familiar? That's the vicious cycle of quartebacking the Browns have been unable to escape, peaking with the likes of Brian Hoyer and Josh McCown, and it doesn't change things that Hogan is younger."
  • " Kizer has a big arm and top-level athleticism, but the mistakes were bound to come as he struggled to mesh the mental aspects of the game with his immense physical talent. He needs to keep being pushed into the fire and getting the right tough-love coaching — which didn't happen for him at the end at Notre Dame."

In an article that has a little something for everyone, for every take on our QB situation thru the last quote, beginning with the boldfaced line it does finally seem to take a stance that represents that of I and others who are willing to suffer with Kizer. And that stance continues at the end with:

  • "So, could Hogan be the answer? He's only 24, but he was cast off by the Chiefs, whose offense suited him, after being drafted in the fifth round last year. He wasn't good enough to play ahead of Cody Kessler or Robert Griffin in Cleveland Iast season, and he finished the 2017 preseason barely ahead of Kessler.

    In other words, Hogan is playing more because he's not Kizer, not because he's "better" than Kizer. Jackson was hired because of his ability to be a QB whisperer and possibly being the right guy to solve the problem. For that reason, he also gets a longer losing leash than usual from the Browns' brass  But just like recent coaches in Cleveland, Jackson won't work, either, if he falls into becoming short-sighted.

    Going away from Kizer, whose confidence has to be shaken, is setting up to be a lose-lose situation. Hogan won't suddenly find a groove with the pass defenses of the Texans, Vikings, Lions, Jaguars, Bengals and Chargers in five of the next six Browns games. Worse than not sticking with Kizer is going with Hogan, only to go back to Kizer with him having lost key developmental playing time — and the team being no closer to a QB answer."

If it takes a vote of confidence in the form of a guaranteed 3rd year to keep Hue on the path of developing Kizer, then I'd give it. However, it would come with input into his development plan, including play-calling... and spending time in-game with his protege'.

 

Job #1 remains determining our QB need going into the 2018 Draft... not on the basis of how short Kizer is after 5 weeks on the job, but how short he still may be at season's end.

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32 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

I'm sticking with my eight games. We're Shmucked anyway so it probably doesn't matter. And there's a chance he could reverse his downward slide. But:

As long as we are dreaming of unicorns and fairy dust it just could be that if we gave the reins to Hogan today and he started working with the first team there's no reason he couldn't be the guy. But...

First, shocked you had no song input...

Second, we'll see what game 8 brings.

Third, no dreaming here... Mosue in your pocket? ;)

Fourth, no... IMO Hogan can't be and the reasons were on display yesterday.

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11 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Am a bit confused as to who "the sunshine boys" are after reading the article. Some quotes:

  • " After his team fell to 0-5, Jackson said he's "got to see the tape and look at everything" before making any such change, but you know it's coming. With it will go the chance to properly develop the raw Kizer as a passer in his first NFL season."
  • " Let's hope that when Jackson sees the tape, he will see that much of Hogan's production and efficiency, including the 41-yard TD to Johnson, came on a last-gasp drive with the Jets having a 10-point lead deep into the fourth quarter."
  • " But Jackson is also looking at the fact he's now 1-20 as the Browns' head coach. It's only natural for him to be more concerned about job security than in working even harder to get Kizer to improve. The rub is, those things go hand in hand for Jackson."
  • " Hogan looked every bit the part of a game manager with a low ceiling. Sound familiar? That's the vicious cycle of quartebacking the Browns have been unable to escape, peaking with the likes of Brian Hoyer and Josh McCown, and it doesn't change things that Hogan is younger."
  • " Kizer has a big arm and top-level athleticism, but the mistakes were bound to come as he struggled to mesh the mental aspects of the game with his immense physical talent. He needs to keep being pushed into the fire and getting the right tough-love coaching — which didn't happen for him at the end at Notre Dame."

In an article that has a little something for everyone, for every take on our QB situation thru the last quote, beginning with the boldfaced line it does finally seem to take a stance that represents that of I and others who are willing to suffer with Kizer. And that stance continues at the end with:

  • "So, could Hogan be the answer? He's only 24, but he was cast off by the Chiefs, whose offense suited him, after being drafted in the fifth round last year. He wasn't good enough to play ahead of Cody Kessler or Robert Griffin in Cleveland Iast season, and he finished the 2017 preseason barely ahead of Kessler.

    In other words, Hogan is playing more because he's not Kizer, not because he's "better" than Kizer. Jackson was hired because of his ability to be a QB whisperer and possibly being the right guy to solve the problem. For that reason, he also gets a longer losing leash than usual from the Browns' brass  But just like recent coaches in Cleveland, Jackson won't work, either, if he falls into becoming short-sighted.

    Going away from Kizer, whose confidence has to be shaken, is setting up to be a lose-lose situation. Hogan won't suddenly find a groove with the pass defenses of the Texans, Vikings, Lions, Jaguars, Bengals and Chargers in five of the next six Browns games. Worse than not sticking with Kizer is going with Hogan, only to go back to Kizer with him having lost key developmental playing time — and the team being no closer to a QB answer."

If it takes a vote of confidence in the form of a guaranteed 3rd year to keep Hue on the path of developing Kizer, then I'd give it. However, it would come with input into his development plan, including play-calling... and spending time in-game with his protege'.

 

Job #1 remains determining our QB need going into the 2018 Draft... not on the basis of how short Kizer is after 5 weeks on the job, but how short he still may be at season's end.

THAT is one of the biggest OUTRIGHT LIES that is Constantly Pushed by kizer fans and media but its just not Shmucking true. He tested as ONE OF THE LOWEST RATED QBS AT THE COMBINE... Just because he is black does not make him a top athlete QB. Kevin Hogan Tested better in every catagory and even Cody Kessler Tested Better in MOST.|

Kevin Hogan even had a better Rushing average in College. Another thing that pisses me off even the announcers were like he's a game manager and unathletic and only after halftime did they realise this kid had a 100yd rushing game in the nfl. how about these lines

• Set Stanford record for career rushing yards by a quarterback  • First Cardinal quarterback ever with over 1,000 career rushing yards   • Second-most single-game rushing yards ever by a Stanford quarterback

 

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15 minutes ago, CaineDeSoulis said:

THAT is one of the biggest OUTRIGHT LIES that is Constantly Pushed by kizer fans and media but its just not Shmucking true. He tested as ONE OF THE LOWEST RATED QBS AT THE COMBINE... Just because he is black does not make him a top athlete QB. Kevin Hogan Tested better in every catagory and even Cody Kessler Tested Better in MOST.|

Kevin Hogan even had a better Rushing average in College. Another thing that pisses me off even the announcers were like he's a game manager and unathletic and only after halftime did they realise this kid had a 100yd rushing game in the nfl. how about these lines

• Set Stanford record for career rushing yards by a quarterback  • First Cardinal quarterback ever with over 1,000 career rushing yards   • Second-most single-game rushing yards ever by a Stanford quarterback

 

DeShone Kizer is a Mulatto , sonny.... He has a Black Father and White Mother...

maelyn-kizer-1.jpg

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Maybe we drafted him because he's Tom Brady and Cam Newton all rolled up......one of my mostest favoritest Kizer quotes below....the extremely ridiculous parts are highlighted for your viewing pleasure......

Name a college quarterback who goes into the game-plan meetings on Monday and throws his notes at the coaches,” Kizer said. “No one else game plans the way I do. No one else prepares the way I do. No one else knows football the way I do. No one else is as big as I am. No one else is as powerful a runner as I am. Pat Mahomes might throw the ball 80 yards and I can only throw the ball 72, but I guarantee he can’t throw an out route the way I can.

No one else can do what I can do. And I’ve truly figured out in this process, if I can maximize all my potential in every aspect of the game – this is bold – I do have the ability to be the greatest quarterback to ever play. Imagine taking Brady’s intellect and Brady’s preparation and putting it on a guy with Cam Newton’s body.

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18 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

Maybe we drafted him because he's Tom Brady and Cam Newton all rolled up......one of my mostest favoritest Kizer quotes below....the extremely ridiculous parts are highlighted for your viewing pleasure......

Name a college quarterback who goes into the game-plan meetings on Monday and throws his notes at the coaches,” Kizer said. “No one else game plans the way I do. No one else prepares the way I do. No one else knows football the way I do. No one else is as big as I am. No one else is as powerful a runner as I am. Pat Mahomes might throw the ball 80 yards and I can only throw the ball 72, but I guarantee he can’t throw an out route the way I can.

No one else can do what I can do. And I’ve truly figured out in this process, if I can maximize all my potential in every aspect of the game – this is bold – I do have the ability to be the greatest quarterback to ever play. Imagine taking Brady’s intellect and Brady’s preparation and putting it on a guy with Cam Newton’s body.

well, i like the confidence ;) but by now it's probably been beaten out of him.  Stick with Kizer but switch to Hogan in the red zone.  Kizer gets to develop, Browns get to score points, everyone wins!

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Kizer reminds me of Cam Newton and I think he can be just as good, however Cam started his career with a dedicated OC (Chudzinski) and much better skill players. Hue mishandled the QB situation completely, Hogan should've started the season and they should've prepared Kizer for a mid-season start.

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On 10/9/2017 at 12:25 PM, CaineDeSoulis said:

THAT is one of the biggest OUTRIGHT LIES that is Constantly Pushed by kizer fans and media but its just not Shmucking true. He tested as ONE OF THE LOWEST RATED QBS AT THE COMBINE... Just because he is black does not make him a top athlete QB. Kevin Hogan Tested better in every catagory and even Cody Kessler Tested Better in MOST.|

Kevin Hogan even had a better Rushing average in College. Another thing that pisses me off even the announcers were like he's a game manager and unathletic and only after halftime did they realise this kid had a 100yd rushing game in the nfl. how about these lines

• Set Stanford record for career rushing yards by a quarterback  • First Cardinal quarterback ever with over 1,000 career rushing yards   • Second-most single-game rushing yards ever by a Stanford quarterback

Ah... what you took issue with me on in the other thread has been revealed! I had the audacity to quote sections of an article with which you disagree.

Here are Hogan's stats:

    Rushing Receiving Scrimmage
Year School Conf Class Pos G Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds Avg TD Plays Yds Avg TD
Career Stanford         315 1249 4.0 15 1 11 11.0 1 316 1260 4.0 16
*2012 Stanford Pac-12 FR QB 10 55 263 4.8 2         55 263 4.8 2
*2013 Stanford Pac-12 SO QB 14 84 355 4.2 2 0 0   0 84 355 4.2 2
*2014 Stanford Pac-12 JR QB 13 91 295 3.2 5 0 0   0 91 295 3.2 5
*2015 Stanford Pac-12 SR QB 14 85 336 4.0 6 1 11 11.0 1 86 347 4.0 7

And Kizer's...

    Rushing Receiving Scrimmage
Year School Conf Class Pos G Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds Avg TD Plays Yds Avg TD
Career Notre Dame         264 997 3.8 18 1 4 4.0 0 265 1001 3.8 18
*2015 Notre Dame Ind SO QB 13 135 525 3.9 10 0 0   0 135 525 3.9 10
2016 Notre Dame Ind JR QB 12 129 472 3.7 8 1 4 4.0 0 130 476 3.7 8

Aren't 4 years > 2?

So who is the liar? The one citing meaningless Stanford records perhaps?

 

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On 10/9/2017 at 1:25 PM, CaineDeSoulis said:

THAT is one of the biggest OUTRIGHT LIES that is Constantly Pushed by kizer fans and media but its just not Shmucking true. He tested as ONE OF THE LOWEST RATED QBS AT THE COMBINE... Just because he is black does not make him a top athlete QB. Kevin Hogan Tested better in every catagory and even Cody Kessler Tested Better in MOST.|

Kevin Hogan even had a better Rushing average in College. Another thing that pisses me off even the announcers were like he's a game manager and unathletic and only after halftime did they realise this kid had a 100yd rushing game in the nfl. how about these lines

• Set Stanford record for career rushing yards by a quarterback  • First Cardinal quarterback ever with over 1,000 career rushing yards   • Second-most single-game rushing yards ever by a Stanford quarterback
 

Tour, then why don't you post the college stats that really matter- that would be passing? The departed Shepster  had another stat- the number of college starts has a correlation to NFL success. 

I'll say it again- I saw enough of Kizer at Notre Dame when he got announced by JB I screamed a massive F-Bomb.  Second only to Johnny Football, I was about ill after that one. 

Kizer's progress as a pro has been minimal if at all, to the crap I was seeing him produce at ND. Mud had the stats too- Deshone has regressed, not progressed in every game. So we keep on playing him to see if he can f-up further? Time to sit and watch Deshone. You won the starters job by default. Gee, you can only toss it 72 yards- time to 'roid up. Duante Culpepper could heave it 90. 

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8 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Tour, then why don't you post the college stats that really matter- that would be passing? 

Already did somewhere around here, h. What did they show? Essentially that Kizer was as good as Hogan excepting Hogan's Sr. year. As a reminder, we have been watching Kizer's junior year... just at a whole 'nother level of competition.

Besides when someone is using QB rushing records to make a bullshat point, it calls for rushing stats to refute that point.

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13 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Ah... what you took issue with me on in the other thread has been revealed! I had the audacity to quote sections of an article with which you disagree.

Here are Hogan's stats:

    Rushing Receiving Scrimmage
Year School Conf Class Pos G Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds Avg TD Plays Yds Avg TD
Career Stanford         315 1249 4.0 15 1 11 11.0 1 316 1260 4.0 16
*2012 Stanford Pac-12 FR QB 10 55 263 4.8 2         55 263 4.8 2
*2013 Stanford Pac-12 SO QB 14 84 355 4.2 2 0 0   0 84 355 4.2 2
*2014 Stanford Pac-12 JR QB 13 91 295 3.2 5 0 0   0 91 295 3.2 5
*2015 Stanford Pac-12 SR QB 14 85 336 4.0 6 1 11 11.0 1 86 347 4.0 7

And Kizer's...

    Rushing Receiving Scrimmage
Year School Conf Class Pos G Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds Avg TD Plays Yds Avg TD
Career Notre Dame         264 997 3.8 18 1 4 4.0 0 265 1001 3.8 18
*2015 Notre Dame Ind SO QB 13 135 525 3.9 10 0 0   0 135 525 3.9 10
2016 Notre Dame Ind JR QB 12 129 472 3.7 8 1 4 4.0 0 130 476 3.7 8

Aren't 4 years > 2?

So who is the liar? The one citing meaningless Stanford records perhaps?

 

Highlighted for easier reading... Tour's not going to bring the passing numbers into this LOL. Lets keep it fair atleast...

Combine stats in case you forgot
40 yard//Hogan 4.78, Kizer 4.83 (Hogan +.05)
20 yd split// Hogan 2.76, Kizer 2.84 (Hogan +.08)
10 yd split// Hogan 1.64, Kizer 1.72 (Hogan +.08)
Shuttle// Hogan 4.31, Kizer 4.53 (Hogan +.22)
Three Cone// Hogan 6.90, Kizer 7.40 (Hogan +.50)
Vertical// Hogan 32.5, Kizer 30.5 (Hogan + 2.00)
Broad Jump// Hogan 9.42, Kizer 8.92 (Hogan +.50)

In fact in review Hogan finished within a Percentile of another QB you liked alot... Dak Prescott....

Kizer is a nonathlete that plays LIKE an athlete QB. and the result in the nfl is the single worst 5 game performance in the last 18 years of BROWNS QB's...

Honestly its not even fair to kizer to say he's not an athlete he's just simply NOT good enough of an athlete to do what he did in college. He Needs to be Rebuilt or remade to function in the NFL and frankly i'm not sure if its worth the multi year investment its going to take. and we have not seen ANYTHING from hue to indicate that he's properly instructing this kid from his indifferance when kizer throws an Interception to the lack of setting up a QB friendly offense for him. Kizer may be a good QB someday but it's not happening under Hue

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