Kamp Kizer

[Flugel]

I thought Hue Jackson's comments about Kessler were pretty interesting. He basically said that Kessler has worked really hard and improved a lot, which kind of puzzled me. How much can a guy really improve in the offseason? Was Hue only talking about weight room stuff? I take what he said with a grain of salt, but still, it's worth noting that Kessler could improve and basically make taking the job from him nearly impossible. First and foremost, he doesn't turn the ball over that much, and he'll know the offense. That's the kind of head start that seems insurmountable to me. Even Kizer recently said that he has so far to go before he can even BEGIN to compete for the starting gig, and I felt that was an accurate statement. To make matters worse, Kizer has a tendency to "miss high" with his throws, and that will kill you in the NFL.

 

I actually think Kizer is in a pretty good spot. He wasn't drafted in the first round, so the tangible pressure to start the kid immediately isn't as pervasive. If Kizer doesn't win the job in preseason, he won't be seen as a failure. It's funny how that works. I'll tell you this much: I feel a million times better about our QB group NOW then I did a year ago. Last year we were looking at RG III, McCown, and 3rd round rookie Kessler. *shudders* I'm NOT saying it looks MUCH better now, but at least we're a lot younger and we have more "potential" on the roster. I don't love Osweiler, but the guy did go to the damn playoffs the last two years with two team. And Kizer wasn't an "elite" prospect, but at least the kid as the physical tools needed. Oh, and we're A LOT YOUNGER. Did I mention younger?

 

Sorry for the length here but I hope you give it a chance...

 

After the 1st 3 years of Drew Brees' NFL career in SD, they drafted a QB 1st overall. This was before he'd injure his shoulder 2 seasons later. Well, Rivers' held out the length of training camp and Drew Brees got another chance in the batter's box following strike 3. That turned into a 12-4 season inclusive of a Pro Bowl. While Brees credited his strength and conditioning most for his progress - I'm guessing a blend of the game slowing down for him plus and an improving roster around him such as a more seasoned Gates, veteran pickup like McCardell and the prong of Tomlinson on the ground continuing to improve. Another part of that was Brees' initial transition to taking snaps under Center until they added a Center from the same Purdue program that snapped for the shot gun (Nick Hardwick).

 

There's a lot of things that go into how quick a young QB emerges. If the game hasn't slowed down for an inexperienced QB in our passing pocket (that veterans like RG3, McCown and Whitehurst couldn't survive starts in) - premature check downs are almost as inevitable as feeling like the little kid on the yellow raft in the movie Jaws. Now let's factor in how much starting experience Pryor and Coleman had at WR for their roles in adjusting to complicated defenses/coverages and well disguised zone blitzes to wonder why Kess had a high frequency of check downs. Were Coleman and Pryor always making the right adjustments? Are we sure? A couple times that Kess didn't check down, he didn't finish the game (just like our vet QBs) while our RT or Center usually got all the credit for the sack.

 

Not all opportunities are equal. Was Dak Prescott the best rookie QB or did he just inherit the most ideal situation? Peyton Manning had Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison in his 1st NFL huddle and he still only won 3 games while throwing something like 28 INTs while many of his 26 TD passes were during junk time in losses. Then Polian added other All Americans/studs shortly thereafter as tools forhis young QB like Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Edge James, etc. The quicker a FO gets everything in place around a young QB - the more it expedites the QB's emergence and on-field chemistries IMO.

 

We know the reasons why Kess wasn't a 1st or 2nd round QB - what we don't know just yet if the brain trust that selected Kess as our last of three 3rd round picks was wrong for doing so. Would he have failed in the set up in Dallas? For that matter, would Goff have failed in that set-up? Think back to the massive difference between Steve Young in Tampa/NFL Hell and SF? It was one place gave him the chance for success the other deprived him of. I liked learning that Kess, Coleman and others got together as well as learning that Kess worked with a well respected QB guru in the off-season.

 

Best of all, we don't have to race Kizer into action too quickly if Kessler can take the next step.

[Tour2ma]

Was Dak Prescott the best rookie QB or did he just inherit the most ideal situation?

 

Both can be true...

[calfoxwc]

or not....

[Canton Mike]

I'm ok with our current QB situation. We didn't trade our draft away for a QB (I was wrong about JG), made wise picks, have time to develop Kizer, & we'll soon see the growth that Kessler & others have made.

Good times ahead.

 

Mike

[ballpeen]

I feel pretty good with the QB room.

 

Not many people talk about Brock. I think he can step forward.

[Tour2ma]

or not....

 

If you want to make the case that neither is true, then good luck with that.

[calfoxwc]

 

If you want to make the case that neither is true, then good luck with that.

You forgot the possibility that one could be true, and one could be false...............

[Tour2ma]

Since the statement included "or", I'm pretty sure that was not the case...

 

But I was guilty of thinking you were adding something new to the conversation.

[calfoxwc]

it's also possible neither one is true. If he had gone to the most ideal situation,

he would have won the superbowl with the stupid patriots.

 

As far as being the best rookie qb, that will take more than one season.

 

Carry on.

[Tour2ma]

Now that you've come around to my original take... sure...

[calfoxwc]

somebody had to fill in your take's takeaway's.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

it's also possible neither one is true. If he had gone to the most ideal situation,

he would have won the superbowl with the stupid patriots.

 

As far as being the best rookie qb, that will take more than one season.

 

Carry on.

How can you be the best rookie QB in anything outside of your rookie season?

 

I'm struggling a bit with that one...

[Mudfly]

How can you be the best rookie QB in anything outside of your rookie season?

 

I'm struggling a bit with that one...

Thats Cal sense for ya........

[gumby73]

Great to see this guy back around..https://www.instagram.com/p/BUapPYYD81T/

[Tour2ma]

Thats Cal sense for ya........

 

...plus an inability to compartmentalize other sections of this Forum.

[Tour2ma]

Meanwhile back at the thread....

Browns notebook

Browns notebook: Coach Hue Jackson says don’t be surprised if QB DeShone Kizer receives most of his attention during OTAs

By Nate Ulrich - Beacon Journal sports writer

AURORA: Cody Kessler will begin organized team activities Tuesday as the first-string quarterback, but that doesn’t mean he’ll receive the most tutoring from coach Hue Jackson.

Actually, Jackson suggested Monday he’ll likely be more focused on trying to help rookie quarterback DeShone Kizer get up to speed.

“The first day, you might see the young guy with me the whole time,” Jackson said during the Cleveland Browns Foundation Golf Tournament at Barrington Golf Club. “... When I’m talking about the young guy, I’m talking about DeShone because I want to make sure I have my hand on him as much as I can.”

Jackson has said he won’t prevent Kizer from starting right away if the second-round draft pick (No. 52 overall) from Notre Dame proves he’s ready. But Kizer needs to develop in a hurry to have a realistic shot, and Jackson obviously knows that.

Much more at: http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns-notebook-coach-hue-jackson-says-don-t-be-surprised-if-qb-deshone-kizer-receives-most-of-his-attention-during-otas-1.768781

[jiggins7919]

Although it's still beyond early, Kessler received another round of praise, this time from Joe Thomas. Paraphrasing, he basically said he expects a big jump from Kessler because last year he was a 3rd round rookie who didn't receive any of the starting reps in preseason or regular season until he became the starter. Thomas further explained that Kessler appears to be throwing the ball with more velocity, and Cody will have several months of preparing as the starter, plus the knowledge of what it takes to prepare for NFL games.

 

I always thought the velocity aspect of Cody's game was completely overstated. He didn't blow me away throwing the ball, but I also never thought, "Geez, this guy can't get the ball to anyone", either. Yes, his deep ball left more to be desired, but I have to believe that can be developed. The HARD part is learning to protect the ball, which he showed he could do. Now, he has to learn how to take the appropriate risks, which I'm hoping Hue will help him with.

 

I say all this because I don't see how Kizer could possibly make up all this ground, and anybody hoping he will should probably temper their expectations. I won't lie, there's definitely a part of me that WANTS Kizer to develop quickly and be "the guy". I love the athletic ability, the size, and his natural talent. For some reason, I want my "AFC North" style QB. A big guy who can take the punishes conditions, cut through the wind and bad weather, and also someone who can run the read-option aspect of Hue's offense. We shall see.

[LondonBrown]

The Cowboys wanted four QBs in the draft before Dak and he was third string into OTAs before injuries. He'd barely taken a snap in OTAs.

[OldBrownsFan]

The hardest position to fill in the NFL is finding a franchise QB. The Browns alone have been proof of that ( as well as who could have predicted Tom Brady's success in the NFL?). I don't know if Kizer will be that guy for the Browns or not but he has all the tools and I am optimistic about him. In the Notre Dame games I watched last season Kizer could be very impressive at times. I am looking forward to watching Kizer in preseason games.

[Zombo]

I think bringing in Kessler and Kizer (and Oz too) and loading up on frontline talent in the draft was absolutely the best way, and the right way, for this team to go.

 

I think the future long-term starter is on this roster and he's going to grow into good team that can become a great team. And we have a real solid offensive line for these guys. Excited.

 

Zombo

[jiggins7919]

From what Mary Kay and others are reporting, Kizer is receiving TONS of personal instruction from Hue Jackson. I'm starting to think that if Kizer can demonstrate the ability to run the offense and be in the same ballpark as Kessler (or Brock for that matter), Hue Jackson will start Kizer because of the upside. Say Hue thinks that Kessler might win 5 games or so, but Kizer is good enough to win 3 games this season, but NEXT year Kessler remains at around 5 games, but Kizer might go to 7+. If Hue thinks that Kizer can start this year and do "ok", but shows enough to suggest a higher ceiling is evident...Kizer will be the guy in September. I really think so.

[TexasAg1969]

From what Mary Kay and others are reporting, Kizer is receiving TONS of personal instruction from Hue Jackson. I'm starting to think that if Kizer can demonstrate the ability to run the offense and be in the same ballpark as Kessler (or Brock for that matter), Hue Jackson will start Kizer because of the upside. Say Hue thinks that Kessler might win 5 games or so, but Kizer is good enough to win 3 games this season, but NEXT year Kessler remains at around 5 games, but Kizer might go to 7+. If Hue thinks that Kizer can start this year and do "ok", but shows enough to suggest a higher ceiling is evident...Kizer will be the guy in September. I really think so.

 

But don't make the mistake of starting him before he is really ready or you ruin him for life as an NFL QB just like Houston did with the first Carr brother.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

But don't make the mistake of starting him before he is really ready or you ruin him for life as an NFL QB just like Houston did with the first Carr brother.

 

I don't think that's necessarily what ruined Carr in Houston. Carr, like his brother, was a smart QB and had tremendous work ethic - he probably would have been fine to start day one and it wouldn't have adversely affected his career.

 

The biggest problem IMO was that they put him behind a high school offensive line and THEN had him learn the ropes of being an NFL QB. That's what killed him. It ruined his timing, broke his body, and made it impossible for him to recover.

[miktoxic]

From what Mary Kay and others are reporting, Kizer is receiving TONS of personal instruction from Hue Jackson.

 

lord knows he gonna need it............

 

still waiting for this QB whispering coach to actually show he can produce a SB pro player leading the way.

 

dalton has never made it past the first round of playoffs and in oakland jackson was a dud.

 

hell weeden made it to the first round of the playoffs.....

[TexasAg1969]

 

I don't think that's necessarily what ruined Carr in Houston. Carr, like his brother, was a smart QB and had tremendous work ethic - he probably would have been fine to start day one and it wouldn't have adversely affected his career.

 

The biggest problem IMO was that they put him behind a high school offensive line and THEN had him learn the ropes of being an NFL QB. That's what killed him. It ruined his timing, broke his body, and made it impossible for him to recover.

 

You mean kind of like what we did to Kessler last year?

[Tour2ma]

Not even close,Ag... Carr was abused far more than all our QBs in total in 2016.

 

 

The biggest problem IMO was that they put him behind a high school offensive line and THEN had him learn the ropes of being an NFL QB. That's what killed him. It ruined his timing, broke his body, and made it impossible for him to recover.

 

Ding ding ding... the expansion Texas were clamped down on by the league. The "deal" JAX and CAR got was way too sweet to be repeated and Carr paid the price.

[The Gipper]

Not even close,Ag... Carr was abused far more than all our QBs in total in 2016.

 

Only Tim Couch was abused more.

 

 

 

.

[gumby73]

I like Kessler early in schedule.At start, 5 of the 7 teams have played against Hue's play calling system last season.3 are divisional games. I'd favor the larger playbook with Kessler. When the calendar hits November & we hit the high grass of London in week 8 than into bye ..Fe Fi Foe Here comes the fighting Irishman.After Bye week 10 were in Detroit,Home Jags,at Cinn than off to LA.Chargers. Which is Kessler Country.We end with 4 & best QB wins..Home-GB&Balt.Away-Bears&the steelless steelquears

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

 

Not even close,Ag... Carr was abused far more than all our QBs in total in 2016.

 

Only Tim Couch was abused more.

 

.

Not really. Actually, not even close. Carr was sacked much more than Couch.

 

Couch was sacked 166 times in his first, and only, 5 years as a pro.

 

Carr was sacked 249 times in his first 5 years.

 

He was demolished early and never recovered - 76 sacks (14.6%) in his rookie year, 15 in his second (shortened due to injury), then followed by 49 (9.5%) in his third and then followed by 68 (13.8%) in his fourth.

 

In comparison, Couch's rookie year he saw 56 sacks (12.3%), then an injury shortened second year, and then his third saw 51(10.1%), but the rest of his career was pretty pedestrian when it came to sacks.

 

I believe Carr led the league in sacks in three of his first four years and still holds the single season record.

 

Couch got hit, sure. But Carr is the poster child for "QBs who had their careers ruined by OL".

[The Gipper]

Not really. Actually, not even close. Carr was sacked much more than Couch.

 

Couch was sacked 166 times in his first, and only, 5 years as a pro.

 

Carr was sacked 249 times in his first 5 years.

 

He was demolished early and never recovered - 76 sacks (14.6%) in his rookie year, 15 in his second (shortened due to injury), then followed by 49 (9.5%) in his third and then followed by 68 (13.8%) in his fourth.

 

In comparison, Couch's rookie year he saw 56 sacks (12.3%), then an injury shortened second year, and then his third saw 51(10.1%), but the rest of his career was pretty pedestrian when it came to sacks.

 

I believe Carr led the league in sacks in three of his first four years and still holds the single season record.

 

Couch got hit, sure. But Carr is the poster child for "QBs who had their careers ruined by OL".

Alrighty then. Both franchises started out doing things the wrong way.