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alporcini

Anyone Else Think Collins Doesn't Wanna Be Here

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Im pretty sure we traded for him with the intent of franchising him. Don't see any scenario he doesn't play here in '17. My question is whether wed franchise him two years in a row, and can we leverage the threat of that into a longer contract.

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Im pretty sure we traded for him with the intent of franchising him. Don't see any scenario he doesn't play here in '17. My question is whether wed franchise him two years in a row, and can we leverage the threat of that into a longer contract.

It's hard not to see a plan being in place for him to be playing in Cleveland next year. Probably it starts with a franchise tag, which he doesn't sign - if he likes the draft and where the team is headed he negotiates a deal, otherwise he signs. Repeat in 2018 as necessary.

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Another thing to realize is this organization has money out the ass to pay for Collins too. I think he's well worth it to actually keep a football player on this team, and I think the Browns feel that way too by bringing him in mid-season on an expiring contract.

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They certainly threw enough of it at Taylor that he managed to intercept some.

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Tour-that goes back to my point that if they want to make sure Collins stays, then they had better get him signed as FA period starts or make sure he understands they will bring him superior D players in the draft while negotiating from the start of FA period on. It does appear there is some overrun time with the draft, but he can also sign with anyone he wants before the draft begins if I understand FA signing rules correctly. I would hope we sign him before FA opens up. We certainly have the cap space. Aren't we allowed to do that if he is agreeable?

 

First... more I think about it, there is no end to FA... at least not until Week 17 rolls around. UFAs are still being signed now. Even now if a Kicker goes down or misses one too many extra point... someone's phone rings. IIRC this just happened a week or two ago... NYG?

 

However, even in the absence of a scheduled UFA deadline, there certainly are tacit ones. The initial flurry of the first two weeks is repeated annually. Team visits... wooing... rumors... negotiating... ultimately feeds headlines and then contracts in that period. Usually for the most sought after candidates and Collins looks to be in that class of UFA.

 

Sure, Ag... sales job on our future will be key, but doubt we are willing to share our draft plans in detail with a player. Maybe a token of trust along the lines of "At #1 we are taking X, and we are emphasizing D going in, but our board will be our board." But compared to a team that is already objectively on an upward trajectory? That's a tough sales job. Compared to a contender looking to add... or replace... a "final piece"? Even tougher... So it comes down to the importance an UFA places on rings.

 

As for the "before FA" period... We can negotiate "an extension" with any player under contract anytime. Just saw this with Howard. But a coveted player who wants "to test the market" is not going to extend. As said above, only sure way is to tag that player in the 2-week window that precedes the beginning of FA by just over a week.

 

And yes, it appears there is that two-day window for "exclusive negotiations" with soon-to-be UFAs. But that's a nod and wink rule from the league and everyone knows it. If you have not gotten a deal done before it hits, how does it this brief, deadline extension help?

 

Finally, off course, there's no better way for a franchise to endear itself to a UFA than to tag him. While that is a form of leverage, it is not the foundation for a relationship... particularly not one that barely exists to begin with. It comes very early in the schedule, so we will know before everything else heats up.

 

If he hasn't signed with the browns by the 9th March, he can sign with anyone else. That's it. No 'wait and see what we do in the draft' period, that'd just be Collins saying "well I think this browns team is really on to something and it's superbowl in two years so I'm staying" - not very realistic.

 

Pretty much it...

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Promise to fill this draft with D and he'll be back.

Draft Myles Garrett and now we have something!

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Is it me or does anyone else see Collins lollygagging on plays more often than not. 

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Collins will be released then go on to look like a world beater on another team ...its the Browns way

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7 minutes ago, darren15 said:

Collins will be released then go on to look like a world beater on another team ...its the Browns way

Seems more like he should be playing hard for the big bucks contract. Instead, he’s getting a rep as a slacker. 

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49 minutes ago, flyingfooldoug said:

Seems more like he should be playing hard for the big bucks contract. Instead, he’s getting a rep as a slacker. 

Thing is he already got that big contract. Dont forget the dude is playing on a nearly $30 million guaranteed deal right now.

It's a shame he doesn't have more passion for the game or whatever the heck it is. He makes elite plays sometimes but other times seems to be bothered to be out there.

 

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That's kind of always my concern with any player we get from another team. Either he or the Patriots didn't think that relationship was working out.

WSS

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2 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

Is it me or does anyone else see Collins lollygagging on plays more often than not. 

Not just you. Collins is acting like he's not happy to actually play football, he has his money.   that "coverage" of Kelce was way too obvious. I think Williams will notice it. On another play, he was pulling up, letting another player chase a guy down.

     And, for all his ability - I don't think he gets it. His occasional lack of effect and free lancing led to him being

traded to the Browns in the first place.

https://www.sbnation.com/2016/11/1/13486594/jamie-collins-patriots-trade-browns-michael-lombardi-inconsistent-effort-belichick

Seriously. Collins even admits he doesn't like football - never watches. Says he'd rather be playing video games.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/this-jamie-collins-quote-might-provide-insight-into-why-bill-belichick-traded-him/

Maybe we should have seen it coming. Multiple media members who cover the Patriots have pointed out that Collins' play has either slipped or has been an issue for Bill Belichick lately, and an offseason interview with Collins reveals one habit that Belichick might not love.

While talking with the Improper Bostonian, Collins was asked what kind of football he likes to watch and his answer was basically "none."

The inclusion of Chandler Jones, who was traded to the Cardinals this offseason, in the quote is revealing as well.

Which would you rather watch: college football or pro?

Neither. I didn't grow up watching football, and I still don't. Me and Chandler Jones have talked about this since I first got up here. I never watched football. I never thought I'd be here, and I'd rather play video games. I don't really want to watch it.

There almost certainly was some kind of disconnect between the front office/coaching staff and Collins in the case of this trade.

Multiple media members pointed out that there were concerns about Collins' play. Tom Curran of CSN New England noticed a dropoff since last season's AFC Championship Game, when Collins was beat by Owen Daniels on multiple plays.

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and from that same second link above:

Hue saw physical ability - Dorsey sees guys who ARE FOOTBALL PLAYERS.

Collins is just a very physically talented waste of time mentally.

**************************

The freelancing thing might have some legitimate legs too. Here was Browns coach Hue Jackson's interesting answer when asked about Collins behavior on the field.

"He can freelance for me then (laughter). The way he freelances is OK with me. What happened there is not what is important for us here. We see a player that is very talented and has a tremendous skill set that fits in with what we do so he is a Cleveland Brown now."


So let's take a look at the factors here ...

  • Jamie Collins wants a bunch of money in the offseason
  • Jamie Collins keeps going off script
  • Jamie Collins isn't a big fan of watching football
  • Elandon Roberts is capable of doing that job at a much cheaper cost

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4 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

Is it me or does anyone else see Collins lollygagging on plays more often than not. 

He does definitely seem to do just that

 

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3 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

Thing is he already got that big contract. Dont forget the dude is playing on a nearly $30 million guaranteed deal right now.

It's a shame he doesn't have more passion for the game or whatever the heck it is. He makes elite plays sometimes but other times seems to be bothered to be out there.

 

The problem is that it seem to be somewhat infectious to other players on this defense.

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3 hours ago, 7moses7 said:

He isn’t the first player to get paid then lay down and won’t be the last 

For sure, I feel like this is something that isn't mentioned enough. This is the reason guys like Bell (and many others) are so demanding of the guaranteed money in a contract. Collins can walk away after this season and have made $30 million dollars. In the NFL especially where the physical toll is unbelievable, it's not surprising that some dudes just coast after striking gold. It sucks and I'm obviously not suggesting I'm for it, but the logical person in me can see why it happens in this sport. The likelihood of a position guy outside QB getting more than any "big" deal is little to none. Why not work your butt off, get the huge money, and then coast? Again, not for that line of thinking but I'm also not getting my skull bonked around for a career. Perhaps shorter, higher money deals may help.

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I didnt see all of this game so I'm not sure what specifically you guys saw, but the effort was there previous games, and William's had nice things to say about him after the game, and William's seems like a straight shooter. With Schobert and Kirksey out, Collins was the defensive QB with the headset in his helmet.

I expected him to make more plays, he's good, but not great... not sure he ever was great, we overpaid for him ... but I honestly dont see lack of effort.

Z

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36 minutes ago, Zombo said:

I didnt see all of this game so I'm not sure what specifically you guys saw, but the effort was there previous games, and William's had nice things to say about him after the game, and William's seems like a straight shooter. With Schobert and Kirksey out, Collins was the defensive QB with the headset in his helmet.

I expected him to make more plays, he's good, but not great... not sure he ever was great, we overpaid for him ... but I honestly dont see lack of effort.

Z

Well....I saw it a few times.   I saw a couple of times where he just liked reached out with his arms to try to tackle, and the ball carrier just brushed him off like a rhino brushing off a fly.

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26 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Hows that effort look??

Can't get it to play.

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3 hours ago, Mark O said:

Hows that effort look??

How about Hunts long TD , looked like he tried to shake his hand instead of trying to tackle him 

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I’ve been a critic of Collins for several years.

He’s got the talent...but gives little effort at times.

The clip below is from the 2016 season vs the Giants. . .

 

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20 hours ago, Mark O said:

Hows that effort look??

By which player? Pad level by DL was atrocious.

Collins? Looked like a confused LB playing his 3rd snap inside due to Kirk's injury who had his eyes in the backfield.

21 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

tanner vallejo flashed on my screen when he came in for kirksey.

Same here... made an error here and there, but looked like the kind of aggressive, read/react player Williams likes.

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22 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

By which player? Pad level by DL was atrocious.

Collins? Looked like a confused LB playing his 3rd snap inside due to Kirk's injury who had his eyes in the backfield.

Same here... made an error here and there, but looked like the kind of aggressive, read/react player Williams likes.

didnt see those errors but i trust u, u know wut ur looking at. Vallejo looked strong taking on lineman and he looks fast into the hole. Will be inteeresting to see if he gets more snaps in coming weeks. 

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On 11/5/2018 at 5:58 AM, flyingfooldoug said:

Is it me or does anyone else see Collins lollygagging on plays more often than not. 

If there was a word worse than terrible, that would be his.. and nobody will miss him when he's cut after the season.

Let's both agree never to resurrect a 2-year old thread again, mmkay?

And I don't miss Kirksey much this year - he's 72nd out of the 80 in PFF who have played starter-level minutes.

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