Camp Trubisky

[The Gipper]

I'm in on Trubisky. Competition isn't everything. Manziel faced strong competition. Wentz didn't. Roethlisberger was from a small school. How many times do we have to get burned before we realize that you look at a QB's traits first and foremost. Can he make all the throws? Does he show the ability to process information quickly? Is he able to learn from his mistakes and does he eat/sleep/breathe football? Does he get the ball out quickly? If the answers to these questions is yes, than he's the guy.

 

The front office likes him. Their analytics are very high on him. He's big enough, with a good arm. He wants to play for the Browns, just like Kosar wanted to. This is an easy decision, provided he is still considered one of the top QBs in the draft.

What would stop him from being considered such? I mean, even if he ran a Kosar like 40...that would mean nothing. (and if you saw his highlights he looks like a cheetah compared to Kosar)

 

Film....what he does in games is the #1 factor. Workouts count, sure. But as has been said, he seems to have almost Marino like quick release. His throws come across as lasers (particularly compared to Kessler). It seems he can throw it 60 yards if he needs to. And from what I have seen....he is no Derek Anderson.....he actually has touch on his shorter passes.

So, to quote Dan Gilbert's kid: "What's not to like"? Or, what, in your view could reduce his evaluation?

[Taco918]

 

No need to defend it- just look at the rankings- 'nuff said. They've matched the mighty SEC in ranked teams.

 

It's a long way to April. Plenty of time to change my mind.

The ACC Atlantic has three teams ranked - Clemson, Louisville, FSU.

 

The Coastal - none.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

What would stop him from being considered such? I mean, even if he ran a Kosar like 40...that would mean nothing. (and if you saw his highlights he looks like a cheetah compared to Kosar)

 

Film....what he does in games is the #1 factor. Workouts count, sure. But as has been said, he seems to have almost Marino like quick release. His throws come across as lasers (particularly compared to Kessler). It seems he can throw it 60 yards if he needs to. And from what I have seen....he is no Derek Anderson.....he actually has touch on his shorter passes.

So, to quote Dan Gilbert's kid: "What's not to like"? Or, what, in your view could reduce his evaluation?

 

Footwork falls apart under pressure from time to time. UNC's offensive system calls for plenty of short and intermediate passes, thereby inflating his accuracy numbers. Relies a little heavily on Switzer (30+ more receptions than the next receiver), despite the fact that Switzer is not a #1 WR and lines up all over the field, meaning that more often than not Switzer is just his #1 read regardless of play structure or defensive looks. He fumbles too much. He is Philip Rivers when the game is on the line - i.e. you have no idea what the fuck is going to happen.

 

 

He's not a perfect prospect.

[Taco918]

So I read through some scouting reports and watched bits and pieces of a couple of games last night.

 

The Good

The kid has got an arm on him. Solid accuracy too. Pocket presence was decent, not spectacular in what I saw but I think it's something he can easily improve.

 

The Bad

Has some mechanical issues which can effect his power and accuracy. Doesn't always step into his throws. Deep accuracy is decent at best.

 

 

Questions

I can't tell if he's getting the ball out early due to reads or the offensive call. He has solid weapons (I really like Switzer) and while that's not a knock, it's something you have to take into account.

 

 

The kid no doubt has potential but it's definitely going to be an adjustment. The only one year starting gives me some Sanchez vibes which scares the living hell out of me. Unless he absolutely kills it in the offseason, I can't imagine/wouldn't want him starting game 1 next year. If he's given at least half a year, if not a full one, adjusting to the game, and if we get the o line fixed up, he could be special. However, I still don't see a number 1 overall pick here.

[jiggins7919]

Yeah Taco, that's pretty much how I feel too. Drafting a QB high, especially if it's actually NUMBER ONE, is absolutely terrifying. I mean, god FORBID Andrew Luck comes out in 2017, or someone like him. You honestly can't make this shit up.

 

I like Mitch, and I wouldn't be angry in the slightest if we took him. I wouldn't care if every analyst in the world gives us crap and we get an "F" grade. If we get the guy who we targeted, I'll be happy. What will REALLY piss me off is if we decide to get cute and trade out of the pick in the hopes of getting our guy later and getting picks. It would destroy us if we lose out on the guy we wanted because the QB's we have on our roster ain't exactly cutting the mustard. Not to mention, Cody is one concussion away from really being up the creek.

 

I can tell you this much, this upcoming draft is going to mean just about EVERYTHING. Hue might get a pass THIS year, but no matter what the owner or GM says, losing every game definitely rattles the faith. How long do you think Hue Jackson really has if we lose the first 6 games next year? We have to hit on this upcoming draft, and we have to find guys that can play RIGHT AWAY.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

We can get Trubisky and Hooker, which I think is a perfect combo of BPA fitting need for us.

[hoorta]

Absolutely agree about the Protection Plan. We need to call Northwest Mutual or State Farm or Nationwide to take out an insurance policy.

Remember what happened to Tim Couch....who WAS a good QB....until he began getting hammered.

The Browns will need to take at least one OL in the first/2d round. They should also get one as young veteran FA. Remember Eric Steinbach...that sort of thing. And the Shon Coleman's and Drango's need to vastly improve.

Not just Couch, David Carr got ruined too. Heck,if they're not confident in the o-line let R Glass & Kessler get beat up for most of 2017 before we throw Mitch to the wolves.

[Taco918]

Two things Jiggins:

 

1) There isn't a Luck in this draft. If there was, I would've started the camp personally before the season started. Mitch isn't Luck. To even insinuate that he's on Luck's level as a prospect is batshit crazy.

 

2) If we need players to start and produce day 1, no way in hell we take Mitch at 1. He has potential but it is going to take time.

[hoorta]

The ACC Atlantic has three teams ranked - Clemson, Louisville, FSU.

 

The Coastal - none.

& North Carolina beat FSU.I did post a link to their schedule, it's not like they've been playing a bunch of bums. That one point loss to Duke hurts, but Fer sure- they're going to get a bowl game.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Two things Jiggins:

 

1) There isn't a Luck in this draft. If there was, I would've started the camp personally before the season started. Mitch isn't Luck. To even insinuate that he's on Luck's level as a prospect is batshit crazy.

 

2) If we need players to start and produce day 1, no way in hell we take Mitch at 1. He has potential but it is going to take time.

 

 

Yeah, if only we could get a franchise level QB who's won a Super Bowl every single year he's been in the league - like Luck has. Sure was a lock.

 

 

Oh, wait....

[The Gipper]

 

Footwork falls apart under pressure from time to time. UNC's offensive system calls for plenty of short and intermediate passes, thereby inflating his accuracy numbers. Relies a little heavily on Switzer (30+ more receptions than the next receiver), despite the fact that Switzer is not a #1 WR and lines up all over the field, meaning that more often than not Switzer is just his #1 read regardless of play structure or defensive looks. He fumbles too much. He is Philip Rivers when the game is on the line - i.e. you have no idea what the fuck is going to happen.

 

 

He's not a perfect prospect.

No, he probably won't come with a John Elway/Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck Grade.....But I think he would have a better grade than a number of top QB picks. Take just those drafted in top 3 since 1999. I think he grades better than Goff/Wentz/Bortles/Griffin/Bradford/Russell/Young/Smith/David Carr/Harrington/Vick/Couch/Palmer.

I don't know that there are more than a half dozen QBs who have come out that may end up having been considered better prospects since 1999: Luck/Winston/Newton/ I think he will be up with Eli Ryan Stafford? Mariota? McNabb.

[The Gipper]

So I read through some scouting reports and watched bits and pieces of a couple of games last night.

 

The Good

The kid has got an arm on him. Solid accuracy too. Pocket presence was decent, not spectacular in what I saw but I think it's something he can easily improve.

 

The Bad

Has some mechanical issues which can effect his power and accuracy. Doesn't always step into his throws. Deep accuracy is decent at best.

 

 

Questions

I can't tell if he's getting the ball out early due to reads or the offensive call. He has solid weapons (I really like Switzer) and while that's not a knock, it's something you have to take into account.

 

 

The kid no doubt has potential but it's definitely going to be an adjustment. The only one year starting gives me some Sanchez vibes which scares the living hell out of me. Unless he absolutely kills it in the offseason, I can't imagine/wouldn't want him starting game 1 next year. If he's given at least half a year, if not a full one, adjusting to the game, and if we get the o line fixed up, he could be special. However, I still don't see a number 1 overall pick here.

OK, give him the Goff treatment. Let RGIII play the first half while Trib sits. (we need a nickname for him). Then get him in their half way through. That may be best.

[The Gipper]

Yeah Taco, that's pretty much how I feel too. Drafting a QB high, especially if it's actually NUMBER ONE, is absolutely terrifying. I mean, god FORBID Andrew Luck comes out in 2017, or someone like him. You honestly can't make this shit up.

 

I like Mitch, and I wouldn't be angry in the slightest if we took him. I wouldn't care if every analyst in the world gives us crap and we get an "F" grade. If we get the guy who we targeted, I'll be happy. What will REALLY piss me off is if we decide to get cute and trade out of the pick in the hopes of getting our guy later and getting picks. It would destroy us if we lose out on the guy we wanted because the QB's we have on our roster ain't exactly cutting the mustard. Not to mention, Cody is one concussion away from really being up the creek.

 

I can tell you this much, this upcoming draft is going to mean just about EVERYTHING. Hue might get a pass THIS year, but no matter what the owner or GM says, losing every game definitely rattles the faith. How long do you think Hue Jackson really has if we lose the first 6 games next year? We have to hit on this upcoming draft, and we have to find guys that can play RIGHT AWAY.

Yes....FUCK that trade down Bullshit. I think there would be a riot in Berea if they tried to do that again....especially if it is perceived that we have a local kid....viewed as the best QB coming out in a couple of years....a franchise QB potential....and they trade down to accumulate more picks?

Do the Berea police have riot gear in storage?

[The Gipper]

We can get Trubisky and Hooker, which I think is a perfect combo of BPA fitting need for us.

A man a plan... Panama!

[The Gipper]

Two things Jiggins:

 

1) There isn't a Luck in this draft. If there was, I would've started the camp personally before the season started. Mitch isn't Luck. To even insinuate that he's on Luck's level as a prospect is batshit crazy.

 

Probably...or...maybe not?

 

2) If we need players to start and produce day 1, no way in hell we take Mitch at 1. He has potential but it is going to take time.

Short sighted....and it does not appear that this FO is short sighted. If we need a guy to be a franchise QB for the next 6-10 years..then you do take him.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

No, he probably won't come with a John Elway/Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck Grade.....But I think he would have a better grade than a number of top QB picks. Take just those drafted in top 3 since 1999. I think he grades better than Goff/Wentz/Bortles/Griffin/Bradford/Russell/Young/Smith/David Carr/Harrington/Vick/Couch/Palmer.

I don't know that there are more than a half dozen QBs who have come out that may end up having been considered better prospects since 1999: Luck/Winston/Newton/ I think he will be up with Eli Ryan Stafford? Mariota? McNabb.

 

Goff, no.

Wentz, maybe.

Bortles, maybe.

Griffin, no.

Bradford, no.

Russell, no

Young, no.

Smith, no.

Carr, maybe but also probably no.

Harrington, yes.

Vick, no.

Couch, no.

Palmer, maybe.

 

Trubisky is not a fantastic prospect, he's just the best prospect in this class. Put on a scale against past first round talent, he's going to be closer to the bottom than the top because of his lack of playing time. Prospects like Vick and Griffin and Bradford were lock top QBs in their draft (Griffin just drew the short straw because he was in the same class as Luck). You put a Vick, Griffin, Bradford, Russell in this draft....he'd be the number one pick.

 

EDIT: Trubisky falls into the Bortles/Wentz range of prospects (roughly mid-6 on the NFL scouting grading scale). Chance to become a legitimate NFL starter.

 

RG3 was a 95, which I'm assuming translates down to a 9.5 on today's grading scale. That's where Vick would have been as well. Russell, probably close to an 8. These guys were untouchable in college and graded out FAR ahead of any of the other prospects solely because they possessed that superstar potential.

[Taco918]

 

 

Yeah, if only we could get a franchise level QB who's won a Super Bowl every single year he's been in the league - like Luck has. Sure was a lock.

 

 

Oh, wait....

Notice I said prospect. Mitch very well might have a similar ceiling to Luck but the floor is vastly different.

 

I'm not sure why you're so down on Luck but to each his own.

[Taco918]

& North Carolina beat FSU.I did post a link to their schedule, it's not like they've been playing a bunch of bums. That one point loss to Duke hurts, but Fer sure- they're going to get a bowl game.

I've seen their schedule. It's not terrible by any means but I wouldn't use it as an argument for Mitch either.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Notice I said prospect. Mitch very well might have a similar ceiling to Luck but the floor is vastly different.

 

I'm not sure why you're so down on Luck but to each his own.

 

 

Because he's been a disappointment and yet he's still referred to as the pinnacle for NFL QB prospects. The number of times I've heard "well, he's no Luck" is maddening.

[The Gipper]

 

Goff, no.

Wentz, maybe.

Bortles, maybe.

Griffin, no.

Bradford, no.

Russell, no

Young, no.

Smith, no.

Carr, maybe but also probably no.

Harrington, yes.

Vick, no.

Couch, no.

Palmer, maybe.

 

Trubisky is not a fantastic prospect, he's just the best prospect in this class. Put on a scale against past first round talent, he's going to be closer to the bottom than the top because of his lack of playing time. Prospects like Vick and Griffin and Bradford were lock top QBs in their draft (Griffin just drew the short straw because he was in the same class as Luck). You put a Vick, Griffin, Bradford, Russell in this draft....he'd be the number one pick.

 

EDIT: Trubisky falls into the Bortles/Wentz range of prospects (roughly mid-6 on the NFL scouting grading scale). Chance to become a legitimate NFL starter.

 

RG3 was a 95, which I'm assuming translates down to a 9.5 on today's grading scale. That's where Vick would have been as well. Russell, probably close to an 8. These guys were untouchable in college and graded out FAR ahead of any of the other prospects solely because they possessed that superstar potential.

I think that when the final grades come out on him....he will grade out as superior project than just about any one of those.

Though... of course, a word of caution: of the ones you list above....probably the highest grades went to Vince Young and Russell...and we know what happened there.

[The Gipper]

I've seen their schedule. It's not terrible by any means but I wouldn't use it as an argument for Mitch either.

Its an ACC schedule. A very good conference. (better this year than the SEC... ) And they played Georgia (lost) and Illinois (won) in their non-con schedule.

Though...they did not play either Clemson or Louisville.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I think that when the final grades come out on him....he will grade out as superior project than just about any one of those.

Though... of course, a word of caution: of the ones you list above....probably the highest grades went to Vince Young and Russell...and we know what happened there.

 

Actually, probably the highest grades went to RG3, Vick and Couch. RG3 was considered a generational level talent only a hair behind Luck, I think a lot of people forget that.

[jiggins7919]

RG III was definitely considered the "once every ten years" type talent, and people were in awe of his sprinter like speed and strong, vertical throwing ability. The amazing rookie season did little to quash that hype, and by the time he tried to return from injury, everything went bonkers. We all know the rumors and stories, but RG III is largely an unknown commodity. What IS known is not good, and that's his documented INABILITY to stay on the field. Once the NFL caught on to the read-option offenses, nobody knew whether or not there was a place for RG III in the league. We are now seeing a similar player, Collin Kaepernick, struggle with the 49's, but his play does seem to be improving. Even so, I doubt many, if any, teams in the league want a guy like RG III or Kaepernick.

 

If RG III continues to get healthy, you can bet your ass he's going to start the last four games of our schedule after the bye. Well, he'll start until he gets injured again. But seriously, I think it might be fun to see a guy like Robert out there. I mean it's not like we're having a ton of fun watching the other guys, right? RG III might have lost a step, but I'm pretty sure he's faster than most QB's in the league, and possibly that speed can be used to help us move the ball. We all know the guy likes to throw it deep, so perhaps his speed lets him avoid pressure and chuck it deep?

 

At any rate, it'll give us something to talk about at the end of the year...well...besides the upcoming draft.

[The Gipper]

 

Actually, probably the highest grades went to RG3, Vick and Couch. RG3 was considered a generational level talent only a hair behind Luck, I think a lot of people forget that.

Now that you mention it, that is true. What did Washington give up to trade up to get him?

[jiggins7919]

Wasn't it three first rounders and change? Ironically, many people were reporting that the Browns basically had a deal done with the Rams, and then Shanahan and Fisher rekindled their friendship and Browns were odd team out.

[hoorta]

RG III was definitely considered the "once every ten years" type talent, and people were in awe of his sprinter like speed and strong, vertical throwing ability. The amazing rookie season did little to quash that hype, and by the time he tried to return from injury, everything went bonkers. We all know the rumors and stories, but RG III is largely an unknown commodity. What IS known is not good, and that's his documented INABILITY to stay on the field. Once the NFL caught on to the read-option offenses, nobody knew whether or not there was a place for RG III in the league. We are now seeing a similar player, Collin Kaepernick, struggle with the 49's, but his play does seem to be improving. Even so, I doubt many, if any, teams in the league want a guy like RG III or Kaepernick.

 

If RG III continues to get healthy, you can bet your ass he's going to start the last four games of our schedule after the bye. Well, he'll start until he gets injured again. But seriously, I think it might be fun to see a guy like Robert out there. I mean it's not like we're having a ton of fun watching the other guys, right? RG III might have lost a step, but I'm pretty sure he's faster than most QB's in the league, and possibly that speed can be used to help us move the ball. We all know the guy likes to throw it deep, so perhaps his speed lets him avoid pressure and chuck it deep?

 

At any rate, it'll give us something to talk about at the end of the year...well...besides the upcoming draft.

 

The problem with Griffin injury history aside, isn't his athleticism- which is unquestioned. It's what's between his ears. I still have my doubts after 4 years in the league he can read a defense. BTW, should he start and get busted up again, MHO is it's adios, failed experiment.

 

Same reason I've seriously cooled on Deshawn Watson. I'm seeing a Griffin clone.

[gumby73]

The bigger issue, and one that is impossible to ignore, is our current team can't keep QB's healthy. So can we honestly draft a young QB in good faith knowing we can't keep him healthy? What adjustments do we have to make? Is it only personnel, or is there a bigger issue? Is there a center or other OL that we can draft or pursue in FA? We must have a plan to address the protection, otherwise drafting a QB makes no sense at all.

When you never had a QB, hell no you don't stop getting a QB at any cost in draft or FA. But when your OL play is flat out killing your chances of evaluating any of your offensive talent including QB, the OL must be reassembled to give you a chance at this time of year. As a person,Cam Erving interviews & is a positive player on the field, but as evaluation would show, Cam is no C or G & we have 2 Good tackles. I am DONE with the Hue "really wants to win" with Erving on the field. Cam was out 3 weeks, we moved Greco to C & guess what? @Mia./@Wash./Pats Crow-6yrds/carry..Duke-5yrds/carry. except for Pats game(we gave up running,scoreboard). Sacks allowed were 3.5/game.Do we really need a C with Greco/Reiter on deck? I would almost say no, we need a starting RG or is that Durango's job or depth. Alvin Bailey is depth, no starter imo. but Joel Bitio will need depth also..Our best C is John Greco period. When the Erving experience ends, Hue than is serious about winning but till 9'er win another game I doubt we will actually see Greco at C..I can't even blame Cam for his poor play. I watched enough of it at FSU. but i will blame a GM that can't believe a scout & than believe many media circuits that Cam can float many OL positions. And JM never partied much at school..This Team Flush is far from complete imo

[Zombo]

That might help....though the fact that he is a kid from Mentor helps more.

 

When is the last time a superior QB came out of NE Ohio? This area has not been as fertile for QBs as I believe it should be.....as far as I know these are the QBs that came out of NEO high schools....regardless of their ultimate quality.

 

Len Dawson Alliance HOF

Bernie Kosar Boardman

Elvis Grbac...St. Joe's

Brian Hoyer St. Ignatius

Todd Blackledge North Canton

George Izo Barberton

Charlie Frye, Willard

Tom Tupa, Brecksville

 

Anyone else? Other positions have had better products come out of here.

 

Brian Dowling, not a professional QB of significance but a bit a cultural icon as we was the starting QB at Yale and was the basis for the Doonesbury character, B.D. Played for the Pats for a while and a cup of coffee with a few other teams.

 

Some of our 70-80's backup were local boys: Mark Miller, Rick Trocano, Oliver Luck.

 

Cliff Stoudt from Oberlin, not sure if that qualifies as NE Ohio though.

 

Long time NFL backup and former Pitt star Matt Cavanaugh was from Youngstown.

 

Tim "Ratty" Rattay, Elyria.

 

Pittsburgh are definitely blows NE Ohio away when it comes to starting QBs in NFL ... but I bet NEO fairs pretty well otherwise at other positions.

 

Zombo

[Mudfly]

 

The problem with Griffins injury history...... which is unquestioned. ..... I still have my doubts after 4 years in the league he can (stay healthy)

 

BTW, should he start and get busted up again, MHO is it's adios, failed experiment.

Its already there.....

 

The guy came here with a history of getting hurt.....the knock was that he couldnt stay on the field.....so, we hoped this would be the year he found a way to play.....but.....guess what.....he lasted less than one game.....

 

Experiment over.....

 

Or, do we foolishly give him a sixth year to see if....(suddenly)... it's different

[TopDawg31]

Draft Mitch, a center, a right guard, and a right tackle in that order and all is good.