Camp Trubisky

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Oh, I completely understand how the college game is going, although I would disagree with your view on the four year starter, Luck assessment but that's a different discussion for a different day.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Mitch is straight up trash or anything like that. He very well could be all he's cracked up to be. I'm just hesitant due to the playing time, which I believe there is a statistical correlation to future success, and the lack of disagreement or nitpicking of his skillset. Obviously it's still early and draft season hasn't kicked into full gear so that's to be expected.

 

 

This will probably sound like an irrational issue to have, but I've been reading and posting to this board intermittently for a couple of years now and I can't recall a prospect, much less a QB prospect, that has seemed to have this much support or interest around here. Again, I realize it's still early and the camp's inhabitants will change, but it seems like less than a week ago, most were on board with going with Garrett, Allen or just D in general. I'm sure our recent QB play is a bit of an influence as well but I feel like I'm missing something here.

 

I think the biggest thing for a lot of people around here is that Trubisky WANTS to play for Cleveland - which means that he's now inherently the best QB to ever grace the planet.

 

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is a lot that can be said for a guy playing for his hometown team...but it's not like it inherently turns a scrub into an allstar. I'm on the Trubisky train because I've been tepidly interested in him from the beginning of the season, but I was hoping he wouldn't cost the #1 overall to nab.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Oh, I completely understand how the college game is going, although I would disagree with your view on the four year starter, Luck assessment but that's a different discussion for a different day.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Mitch is straight up trash or anything like that. He very well could be all he's cracked up to be. I'm just hesitant due to the playing time, which I believe there is a statistical correlation to future success, and the lack of disagreement or nitpicking of his skillset. Obviously it's still early and draft season hasn't kicked into full gear so that's to be expected.

 

 

This will probably sound like an irrational issue to have, but I've been reading and posting to this board intermittently for a couple of years now and I can't recall a prospect, much less a QB prospect, that has seemed to have this much support or interest around here. Again, I realize it's still early and the camp's inhabitants will change, but it seems like less than a week ago, most were on board with going with Garrett, Allen or just D in general. I'm sure our recent QB play is a bit of an influence as well but I feel like I'm missing something here.

People wouldn't shut the fuck up about Goff and Wentz last year. You must have missed that.

[Taco918]

 

I think the biggest thing for a lot of people around here is that Trubisky WANTS to play for Cleveland - which means that he's now inherently the best QB to ever grace the planet.

 

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is a lot that can be said for a guy playing for his hometown team...but it's not like it inherently turns a scrub into an allstar. I'm on the Trubisky train because I've been tepidly interested in him from the beginning of the season, but I was hoping he wouldn't cost the #1 overall to nab.

I completely understand the hometown/homer aspect and I would probably feel a little more comfortable with him if he was slotted a little later than top 5. It just feels like he's jumping up the board a little too fast. I know it's a weaker QB class and nobody has really taken the mantle as it were so anyone with potential is going to shoot up quick but it just feels a little off to me.

[Taco918]

People wouldn't shut the fuck up about Goff and Wentz last year. You must have missed that.

Unfortunately I was here for that. Cal deep diving into their personal lives is still creeping me out. What I meant was I can't remember seeing this type of consensus on a prospect here. I'm fairly confident that will change moving forward but the current state of things is unfamiliar to say the least.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Unfortunately I was here for that. Cal deep diving into their personal lives is still creeping me out. What I meant was I can't remember seeing this type of consensus on a prospect here. I'm fairly confident that will change moving forward but the current state of things is unfamiliar to say the least.

Between now and then, Kizer or some other kid who said they once wore a brown shirt will become another beloved prospect.

[The Gipper]

Oh, I completely understand how the college game is going, although I would disagree with your view on the four year starter, Luck assessment but that's a different discussion for a different day.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Mitch is straight up trash or anything like that. He very well could be all he's cracked up to be. I'm just hesitant due to the playing time, which I believe there is a statistical correlation to future success, and the lack of disagreement or nitpicking of his skillset. Obviously it's still early and draft season hasn't kicked into full gear so that's to be expected.

 

 

This will probably sound like an irrational issue to have, but I've been reading and posting to this board intermittently for a couple of years now and I can't recall a prospect, much less a QB prospect, that has seemed to have this much support or interest around here. Again, I realize it's still early and the camp's inhabitants will change, but it seems like less than a week ago, most were on board with going with Garrett, Allen or just D in general. I'm sure our recent QB play is a bit of an influence as well but I feel like I'm missing something here.

Well, the "Camps" usually entail someone giving their support to this QB or that QB. It can occasionally involve a non QB....but only if there is some local connection.....like Camp Bosa.

Also.....while there is no debate that this defense needs to be strengthened and that Garrett and Allen may have some support, that is not usually a main debate topic....

The question here is: What do the Browns do with a probably #1 overall pick. Go QB or go some other position.

 

The last time the Browns were here...with #1 overall pick, they went first and foremost with the QB....Tim Couch. Then, the next year, since they had what they thought was their QB....then they went for the defender: Courtney Brown. Neither really worked out.

 

I think, bottom line, if it is a position of dire need (and with the Browns with who is on their roster, it is), then things always fall in favor of taking the QB with that pick.

 

Fair to say?

[The Gipper]

 

I think the biggest thing for a lot of people around here is that Trubisky WANTS to play for Cleveland - which means that he's now inherently the best QB to ever grace the planet.

 

It just so happens as well that he is the #1 rated QB, at this point, in the upcoming draft.....and appears possibly to be a better prospect than anyone that came out last year as well. And the last time a local boy was considered the best coming out...and wanted to play here....it worked out pretty well. So, for all the bad history the Browns have going for them, that particular snippet of history is in their favor. (knowing that it actually means nothing...just good to talk about.)

 

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is a lot that can be said for a guy playing for his hometown team...but it's not like it inherently turns a scrub into an allstar. I'm on the Trubisky train because I've been tepidly interested in him from the beginning of the season, but I was hoping he wouldn't cost the #1 overall to nab.

Since so many draft analysts say he is the best coming out...you have to pay some attention to that. If he was from Buttfuck Nairobi we would have to pay attention to him. We were paying attention to DeShaun Watson, and DeShone Kizer....and may still have to somewhat before this is all through.

[The Gipper]

I completely understand the hometown/homer aspect and I would probably feel a little more comfortable with him if he was slotted a little later than top 5. It just feels like he's jumping up the board a little too fast. I know it's a weaker QB class and nobody has really taken the mantle as it were so anyone with potential is going to shoot up quick but it just feels a little off to me.

You would like him better if he were rated lower? WTF is up with that? That makes no logical sense.

 

And we don't know if this is a "weaker" QB class. We have to wait and see. Tribusky right now is rated far ahead of where Goff/Wentz were last year at this time. Some were still on the Hackenberg/Cook train.

(and note....it isn't just the local angle on Trubisky...Cook was a local kid too....and attitudes were lukewarm toward him)

Watson and Kizer....in addition to Trubisky may yet get lots and lots of run, for this reason:

Browns

49ers

Bears

Jets

Bills

Saints

Cardinals

Chargers

 

May ALL be looking for a QB. I would not be surprised if at least 3-4 or more QBs get taken in round one again.

[The Gipper]

Unfortunately I was here for that. Cal deep diving into their personal lives is still creeping me out. What I meant was I can't remember seeing this type of consensus on a prospect here. I'm fairly confident that will change moving forward but the current state of things is unfamiliar to say the least.

Several factors: A. BROWNS will likely have the #1 pick. That has not happened since 2000. They may have the pick of the litter. They don't have to wait and see if someone will "hopefully" fall to them.

B. The Browns clearly NEED a franchise QB.....a big guy with a big arm...not a small guy with a small arm as Kessler seems to be.

C. Yea, he is a local guy. But many, many other analysts...not NEO people are on his bandwagon too.....and evaluate him as the best coming out...in 2 years. (Plus, his competition....at least at QB...all seem to have major flaws. His biggest competition may be from non QBs, not QBs.)

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

You would like him better if he were rated lower? WTF is up with that? That makes no logical sense.

 

And we don't know if this is a "weaker" QB class. We have to wait and see. Tribusky right now is rated far ahead of where Goff/Wentz were last year at this time. Some were still on the Hackenberg/Cook train.

(and note....it isn't just the local angle on Trubisky...Cook was a local kid too....and attitudes were lukewarm toward him)

Watson and Kizer....in addition to Trubisky may yet get lots and lots of run, for this reason:

Browns

49ers

Bears

Jets

Bills

Saints

Cardinals

Chargers

 

May ALL be looking for a QB. I would not be surprised if at least 3-4 or more QBs get taken in round one again.

 

Untrue. Goff was mostly slotted between 4-8 all year long. Trubisky is 6th...so he's exactly at the same level.

[jiggins7919]

This is my favorite video about Mitch so far. Yes, I understand that it's a highlight video, and everyone looks good on those, but what I like is it shows the speed and athleticism of the guy! He isn't the graceful runner, like maybe Russell Wilson, but he's certainly no slouch. I remember saying in another post that Mitch had slightly better wheels than Kessler, but the truth is, Mitch is MUCH faster than Cody. In fact, he actually has designed runs! Remember when Hue was with the Bengals and they'd run that read-option every once in a while? The one where Dalton was in the shotgun, and he'd either hand off to the RB, keep it for a throw, or just run it himself? You also remember when Dalton occasionally gashed us for like 20 yards when he ran it? Yeah, Mitch can do that for us. I'm NOT saying to revolve our entire damn offense around the read-option, but I definitely think it has a place...and Hue has shown the ability to utilize it with the right staff (one of the reasons it's so sad Johnny didn't work out. I think he would've had a good shot at being successful with Hue). Additionally, one of my favorite plays in the red zone is the QB draw. We obviously can't run that with Kessler, but Mitch could definitely pull it off. I realize it's just ONE play, but still...it's nice to have more in your toolbox than less, right?

 

The more I watch, the more I like. Is he perfect? No, we all know that, but he can be the guy. The fact that he WANTS to play in Cleveland makes it a home run. Do not pass go, do not collect $100. Mourn the fact we can't draft Myles Garrett, but wipe away the tears with Mitch's jersey.

[Taco918]

Several factors: A. BROWNS will likely have the #1 pick. That has not happened since 2000. They may have the pick of the litter. They don't have to wait and see if someone will "hopefully" fall to them.

B. The Browns clearly NEED a franchise QB.....a big guy with a big arm...not a small guy with a small arm as Kessler seems to be.

C. Yea, he is a local guy. But many, many other analysts...not NEO people are on his bandwagon too.....and evaluate him as the best coming out...in 2 years. (Plus, his competition....at least at QB...all seem to have major flaws. His biggest competition may be from non QBs, not QBs.)

Look, if you want to boil down my view on Mitch, it's rather simple. I'm not sold. The lack of playing time and the system he's playing in spook me and, as you said, his competition has flaws. I think it's those flaws in his competition that are bumping up his stock, not necessarily Mitch elevating his game.

 

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's awful or anything like that, just that I'm not sold. Hell, who knows, I could end up loving the kid after some more study, but as it stands now, I'm not comfortable reaching for him at 1. I'm fairly high on Garrett and Allen so even if I do end up falling in love with him, I still might not be cool with him at 1.

 

I realize the need for a QB but I don't see the value in reaching at 1, mostly because I think we're still a few years away, assuming (hoping) things go right, from being competitive. As such, I believe that we will more than likely be in a good spot for a QB in 2018. Plus, as I'm sure you know, we have a couple of other needs to fill as well.

[Canton Dawg]

Look, if you want to boil down my view on Mitch, it's rather simple. I'm not sold. The lack of playing time and the system he's playing in spook me and, as you said, his competition has flaws. I think it's those flaws in his competition that are bumping up his stock, not necessarily Mitch elevating his game.

 

This was the train of thought I had about Carson Wentz last year.

 

Played in the Missouri River Valley conference for an FBS school...and only played 8 games.

 

That was the biggest reason(s) I wanted Goff over Wentz.

 

But it's looking like I was wrong.

[The Gipper]

Look, if you want to boil down my view on Mitch, it's rather simple. I'm not sold. The lack of playing time and the system he's playing in spook me and, as you said, his competition has flaws. I think it's those flaws in his competition that are bumping up his stock, not necessarily Mitch elevating his game.

He is playing in a system that nearly every single college QB plays in.....none of the other QBs are playing in anything different...so that is a wash. As for bumping up his stock.....I think his stock is better than Goff and Wentz. His stock is being bumped up by his play and his apparent skills. Scouts see it. If you say that scouts look at him and think he is good...well, yea, I guess that is bumping him up.

 

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's awful or anything like that, just that I'm not sold.

No one can ever be sold on a player until he has had 3-4 years in the NFL. Look at all the #1 overall busts that have occurred. Someone was sold lock stock and barrell on all those...so you can never know for a while.

 

Hell, who knows, I could end up loving the kid after some more study, but as it stands now, I'm not comfortable reaching for him at 1. I'm fairly high on Garrett and Allen so even if I do end up falling in love with him, I still might not be cool with him at 1.

I am not discounting the quality of those guys. All I am saying is: if you have talent at a position that seems to be the best talent at that position that has come around for 2 years...and you need that position....you gotta get it, expecially if that position is QB

 

I realize the need for a QB but I don't see the value in reaching at 1, mostly because I think we're still a few years away, assuming (hoping) things go right, from being competitive. As such, I believe that we will more than likely be in a good spot for a QB in 2018. Plus, as I'm sure you know, we have a couple of other needs to fill as well.

But, again....we will never know when we will have the chance to take the best QB ever again. We do have those needs, and they need to be filled smartly by this crew.....but top notch Qbs are a rare commodity. A DB, DE, LB can be gotten lower. I don't know if a QB can.

So, no, I DO NOT think at all that it would be a reach. Not at all.

[D Bone]

Reports are that the Browns really like him. He wants to play for the Browns he has said. If the Browns want him, and he wants the Browns.....and if he would be the #1 overall pick of the draft.....do you really think he would contemplate not coming out?

Hello! Be a Vulcan and use a little logic.

 

LMAO...... I'll wait until the draft gets a lil' closer before I jump all over some "report" 11 weeks into this season...... Hell, we haven't even had the combine yet, where guys in tank tops and shorts suddenly erase a season(s) worth of game film.

[syd]

Qb is far far from being this teams problem at the moment. Tom Brady would look like hot garbage and Bret Favre would be on IR with this offensive line and talent at playmaker positions.

 

You wanna talk about falling over with stiff breeze when your starting RB falls over when a guy siting on the bench even thinks about tackling him. Seriously crowell looks like a video game glitch when running the ball. Hes about the closest thing to two hand touch as u get.

 

dude I don't know you I know nothing about you what so ever,BUT what the FUCK have you been watching ???? seriously you are either dumb as HELL or have not watched The BROWNS play since 99,,,YES we need a fucking Q FUCKING B and if the front office see's fit to use it on him then why the HELL FUCKING NOT

[hoorta]

Honestly, I'm surprised he's getting this much love here. He's played what? One full year? In a spread offense? In the ACC?

 

Sorry for crop dusting the shiny, new camp but I'm having a hard time seeing a first round pick, much less first overall.

 

Um, ever look at who plays in the ACC? North Carolina hasn't exactly played a bunch of cream puffs this year. http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/153/north-carolina-tar-heels

 

Plus a guy by the name of Philip Rivers played in the ACC- he's done quite well in the pros.

[LogicIsForSquares]

 

Um, ever look at who plays in the ACC? North Carolina hasn't exactly played a bunch of cream puffs this year. http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/153/north-carolina-tar-heels

 

Plus a guy by the name of Philip Rivers played in the ACC- he's done quite well in the pros.

Rivers played when teams actually had their QBs under center. Gauging college QBs got a lot harder in the modern era.

[LondonBrown]

Rivers played when teams actually had their QBs under center. Gauging college QBs got a lot harder in the modern era.

 

An important point, fact is the college game just doesn't prepare QBs for the NFL.

[CaineDeSoulis]

Franchise QB is never a reach and is ALWAYS top priority if you don't have one. even if other prospects are better. BPA only applies AFTER you have your QB otherwise its a waste of talent

[Canton Mike]

This is my favorite video about Mitch so far. Yes, I understand that it's a highlight video, and everyone looks good on those, but what I like is it shows the speed and athleticism of the guy! He isn't the graceful runner, like maybe Russell Wilson, but he's certainly no slouch. I remember saying in another post that Mitch had slightly better wheels than Kessler, but the truth is, Mitch is MUCH faster than Cody. In fact, he actually has designed runs! Remember when Hue was with the Bengals and they'd run that read-option every once in a while? The one where Dalton was in the shotgun, and he'd either hand off to the RB, keep it for a throw, or just run it himself? You also remember when Dalton occasionally gashed us for like 20 yards when he ran it? Yeah, Mitch can do that for us. I'm NOT saying to revolve our entire damn offense around the read-option, but I definitely think it has a place...and Hue has shown the ability to utilize it with the right staff (one of the reasons it's so sad Johnny didn't work out. I think he would've had a good shot at being successful with Hue). Additionally, one of my favorite plays in the red zone is the QB draw. We obviously can't run that with Kessler, but Mitch could definitely pull it off. I realize it's just ONE play, but still...it's nice to have more in your toolbox than less, right?

 

The more I watch, the more I like. Is he perfect? No, we all know that, but he can be the guy. The fact that he WANTS to play in Cleveland makes it a home run. Do not pass go, do not collect $100. Mourn the fact we can't draft Myles Garrett, but wipe away the tears with Mitch's jersey.

 

This^^^^^

If we want a QB & have our eyes on Mitch or either of the other "Big 3", we'll have to spend the #1 to ensure he comes to the Browns. If we wait, the 49ers, Bears & Jets will NOT.

 

Mike

[Taco918]

 

Um, ever look at who plays in the ACC? North Carolina hasn't exactly played a bunch of cream puffs this year. http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/153/north-carolina-tar-heels

 

Plus a guy by the name of Philip Rivers played in the ACC- he's done quite well in the pros.

Defending the ACC Coastal? You're a brave soul.

 

Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Mike Glennon, and EJ Manuel also played in the ACC. It's fun info but not really pertinent to the conversation here.

[gumby73]

Defending the ACC Coastal? You're a brave soul.

 

Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Mike Glennon, and EJ Manuel also played in the ACC. It's fun info but not really pertinent to the conversation here.

Ever heard of Phillip Rivers? & Mitch has got some "Tude" to him also & damn is that needed around here in a QB..Jamuis Winston is way ahead of a EJ Manuel, like Forever. Think Tyrod Taylor from VT may get paid?

[hoorta]

Defending the ACC Coastal? You're a brave soul.

 

Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Mike Glennon, and EJ Manuel also played in the ACC. It's fun info but not really pertinent to the conversation here.

 

No need to defend it- just look at the rankings- 'nuff said. They've matched the mighty SEC in ranked teams.

 

It's a long way to April. Plenty of time to change my mind.

[jiggins7919]

Yeah, maybe Mitch hasn't played the best competition, and that's one of the downsides of the guy. Like we said, he is far from a perfect prospect. He's only started one year, right? That can be good and bad. You don't want to draft a player solely on what's he's done, you want to also draft someone because of what they CAN become. So if Mitch has improved so much in one year of starting, can he CONTINUE to improve? That's probably the golden question, and not one easily answered.

 

I think it's impossible to ignore the fact that Mitch wants to play here. It might not sound like a huge deal, but the more I think about it, the more it actually seems to carry weight. The fans would be immediately drawn to the guy, and that would probably sell tickets. Even if we're a terrible team, the fact that we might FINALLY have "our guy" would lessen the pain of losing drastically.

 

The bigger issue, and one that is impossible to ignore, is our current team can't keep QB's healthy. So can we honestly draft a young QB in good faith knowing we can't keep him healthy? What adjustments do we have to make? Is it only personnel, or is there a bigger issue? Is there a center or other OL that we can draft or pursue in FA? We must have a plan to address the protection, otherwise drafting a QB makes no sense at all.

[Osiris]

I'm in on Trubisky. Competition isn't everything. Manziel faced strong competition. Wentz didn't. Roethlisberger was from a small school. How many times do we have to get burned before we realize that you look at a QB's traits first and foremost. Can he make all the throws? Does he show the ability to process information quickly? Is he able to learn from his mistakes and does he eat/sleep/breathe football? Does he get the ball out quickly? If the answers to these questions is yes, than he's the guy.

 

The front office likes him. Their analytics are very high on him. He's big enough, with a good arm. He wants to play for the Browns, just like Kosar wanted to. This is an easy decision, provided he is still considered one of the top QBs in the draft.

[The Gipper]

 

LMAO...... I'll wait until the draft gets a lil' closer before I jump all over some "report" 11 weeks into this season...... Hell, we haven't even had the combine yet, where guys in tank tops and shorts suddenly erase a season(s) worth of game film.

And a lot of the QBs that expect to go way high don't even throw or do drills at the combine.

 

And can you imagine how Bernie Kosar or Dan Marino would have fared at a combine workout?

[The Gipper]

 

This^^^^^

If we want a QB & have our eyes on Mitch or either of the other "Big 3", we'll have to spend the #1 to ensure he comes to the Browns. If we wait, the 49ers, Bears & Jets will NOT.

 

Mike

Exactly. You have repeated what I have said. Those teams you mention look like they too will be drafting in the Top 5....and they ain't gonna let Trubisky get by them.

[The Gipper]

Defending the ACC Coastal? You're a brave soul.

 

Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Mike Glennon, and EJ Manuel also played in the ACC. It's fun info but not really pertinent to the conversation here.

They were not in the ACC at the time, I do not believe, but the likes of Bernie Kosar and Jim Kelly And Vinny Testaverde also played for a team now in the ACC. As did Dan Marino. As did Johnny Unitas. As did Boomer Esiason and Donovan McNabb. And Sonny Jurgenson.

[The Gipper]

Yeah, maybe Mitch hasn't played the best competition, and that's one of the downsides of the guy. Like we said, he is far from a perfect prospect. He's only started one year, right? That can be good and bad. You don't want to draft a player solely on what's he's done, you want to also draft someone because of what they CAN become. So if Mitch has improved so much in one year of starting, can he CONTINUE to improve? That's probably the golden question, and not one easily answered.

 

I think it's impossible to ignore the fact that Mitch wants to play here. It might not sound like a huge deal, but the more I think about it, the more it actually seems to carry weight. The fans would be immediately drawn to the guy, and that would probably sell tickets. Even if we're a terrible team, the fact that we might FINALLY have "our guy" would lessen the pain of losing drastically.

 

The bigger issue, and one that is impossible to ignore, is our current team can't keep QB's healthy. So can we honestly draft a young QB in good faith knowing we can't keep him healthy? What adjustments do we have to make? Is it only personnel, or is there a bigger issue? Is there a center or other OL that we can draft or pursue in FA? We must have a plan to address the protection, otherwise drafting a QB makes no sense at all.

Absolutely agree about the Protection Plan. We need to call Northwest Mutual or State Farm or Nationwide to take out an insurance policy.

Remember what happened to Tim Couch....who WAS a good QB....until he began getting hammered.

The Browns will need to take at least one OL in the first/2d round. They should also get one as young veteran FA. Remember Eric Steinbach...that sort of thing. And the Shon Coleman's and Drango's need to vastly improve.